Following a late-nite mouse-clicking accident on Yahoo Japan's auctions site I seem to have acquired a job lot of coaches for quite a reasonable price including this pair of apparently Dapol ones:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/16/thumb_29862.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=29862)
The casing looks very Dapol, and they certainly look British, however I can't find anything exactly resembling them in my 2014/15 Dapol catalogue. Can someone identify them? My best guess is something ex-GWR in early BR livery.
:thankyousign:
They look like autocoaches.
To me they look like a couple of autocoaches in BR crimson/cream, often used with a pannier tank loco sandwiched between them. I have one (reference NC011)
NC-011 were the earlier ones and 2P-004-003 and 2P-004-004 were later ones.
Ta, what would I do without you guys? 35 quid for the lot, including some German ones which I can use and some weird-donkey American ones which I'll have to think about. But push-pull trains powered by a steam loco? Sounds most excellent due to not having a turntable. According to Whackypedia " some 0-6-0 pannier tanks were also fitted for autotrain working" - can anyone recommend a suitable locomotive? I've always wanted a GWR-style pannier.
Panniers were not the only locos used for autotrain working. The Dapol 14xx 0-4-2T is another (although it will struggle to pull more than the one coach) and the Ivatt 2-6-2T (Dapol or Minitrix) is another consideration.
It was sold in a set with the GWR 0-4-2:
http://www.ehattons.com/25475/Dapol_ND080Set4_Train_pack_with_Class_48xx_0_4_2_loco_4865_in_GWR_shirtbutton_green_autocoach_i/StockDetail.aspx (http://www.ehattons.com/25475/Dapol_ND080Set4_Train_pack_with_Class_48xx_0_4_2_loco_4865_in_GWR_shirtbutton_green_autocoach_i/StockDetail.aspx)
There's even a secondhand one at Hattons:
http://www.ehattons.com/150009/Dapol_ND016_LN_01_Class_14xx_0_4_2_1462_in_BR_lined_green_Pre_owned_Like_new/StockDetail.aspx (http://www.ehattons.com/150009/Dapol_ND016_LN_01_Class_14xx_0_4_2_1462_in_BR_lined_green_Pre_owned_Like_new/StockDetail.aspx)
Apparently because the control links tended to get a bit sloppy when you coupled 2 coaches behind the loco on an auto train they used to run them with one coach in front and one behind the engine.
Quote from: newportnobby on September 29, 2015, 04:18:54 PM
Panniers were not the only locos used for autotrain working. The Dapol 14xx 0-4-2T is another (although it will struggle to pull more than the one coach) and the Ivatt 2-6-2T (Dapol or Minitrix) is another consideration.
You can't run a GW Autocoach with an Ivatt I'm afraid (at least not in 'push' formation)... The LMS push-pull control system was vacuum actuated, the GW IIRC used a physical mechanical linkage... :no:
Also worth noting that the 57xx and 87xx series Pannier tanks made by Dapol weren't ever fitted to work with autocoaches (I'm sure I read that). If you want an accurate choice of Pannier tank you'll have to wait for the Graham Farish Pannier.
Autocoaches were also used to strengthen conventional trains or as a trailer working with a GWR streamlined rail car. I've seen plenty of photos of the latter but it is worth remembering that the rail car couldn't be driven from the autocoach and would have to run round the coach when it reached the terminus.
Yup, your options are the 48xx/14xx autotanks from Dapol or the 64xx Pannier tank which is coming from Farish in the next few months (but is not out yet).
Both are accurate but the 14xx is Dapol's oldest model and is not a great puller (although it looks quite nice). If you are not in a hurry then I would be tempted to wait for a Farish 64xx in BR Black. Here is the engineering prototype which was showed off at TINGs a few weeks ago.
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/fourwheelsteer/Train%20and%20model%20rail%20stuff/WP_20150816_006_zpsfp5gfz31.jpg)
Here is an 64xx forming the filling of an auto-coach sandwich (although this one is in GWR days).
(http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/birmingham-snowhill/locomotives/gwrbsh1793.jpg)
Quote from: PLD on September 29, 2015, 05:38:00 PM
Quote from: newportnobby on September 29, 2015, 04:18:54 PM
Panniers were not the only locos used for autotrain working. The Dapol 14xx 0-4-2T is another (although it will struggle to pull more than the one coach) and the Ivatt 2-6-2T (Dapol or Minitrix) is another consideration.
You can't run a GW Autocoach with an Ivatt I'm afraid (at least not in 'push' formation)... The LMS push-pull control system was vacuum actuated, the GW IIRC used a physical mechanical linkage... :no:
Thanks for the correction, Paul :thumbsup:
It just goes to show the difference between Locos I picked up a second hand 14xx very cheap and it pulls 6 Minitrix coaches with no bother although my layout is almost flat .
I've had my 14xx pulling 20 Peco wagons before now although on the flat and with some slippage on starting off. Many others have not been so lucky :hmmm:
Quote from: Karhedron on September 29, 2015, 08:41:58 PM
Yup, your options are the 48xx/14xx autotanks from Dapol or the 64xx Pannier tank which is coming from Farish in the next few months (but is not out yet).
Both are accurate but the 14xx is Dapol's oldest model and is not a great puller (although it looks quite nice). If you are not in a hurry then I would be tempted to wait for a Farish 64xx in BR Black. Here is the engineering prototype which was showed off at TINGs a few weeks ago.
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/fourwheelsteer/Train%20and%20model%20rail%20stuff/WP_20150816_006_zpsfp5gfz31.jpg)
Here is an 64xx forming the filling of an auto-coach sandwich (although this one is in GWR days).
(http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/birmingham-snowhill/locomotives/gwrbsh1793.jpg)
:greatpicturessign:
I just got one of the lovely GWR autocoaches in the mail from Hattons :) I'm quite pleased with it, though nothing I have is super appropriate for it yet (I have the Dapol Pannier which it looks nice with, but wrong. I'm also enjoying it with my M7 and Terrier, which both had Autocoach types of their own). I have the Farish pannier on preorder and probably won't get a 14xx, no matter how pretty (I learned my lesson with the M7!)
I had a question about the 64xx Autocoach sandwich photo; is it being run between three autocoaches or between two autocoaches with a third coach tacked onto the end? I'm trying to figure out what my running options are with my Autocoach (I'll likely have a second one by the end of the month...)
Thank you!!!
-Philip
Quote from: N-Gauge-US on February 02, 2016, 08:42:45 AM
I had a question about the 64xx Autocoach sandwich photo; is it being run between three autocoaches or between two autocoaches with a third coach tacked onto the end? I'm trying to figure out what my running options are with my Autocoach (I'll likely have a second one by the end of the month...)
That particular 6400 is being run between 3 autocoaches. The maximum number that could be handled was 4, 2 in front and 2 behind. This was due to the nature of the mechanical linkages used for autocoach operation, there could only be one intermediate trailer between the loco and driving coach. The GWR also modified some 3rd class coaches with linkages to act as intermediate vehicles but these are not available RTR.
6400s on auto services were particularly associated with the intensive south Wales valley services and with the Plymouth - Saltash services. The later were particularly interesting as they often tripped milk tankers from the creamery at Saltash to Plymouth for attaching to the main flows into London. This meant that you could have a 6400 with anything from 2-4 autocoaches and 1 or 2 milk tankers bumping along behind.
Truly a prototype for everything. ;)
Thank you! Exactly what I wanted to know :))) :NGF:
Quote from: Karhedron on September 29, 2015, 08:41:58 PM
Yup, your options are the 48xx/14xx autotanks from Dapol or the 64xx Pannier tank which is coming from Farish in the next few months (but is not out yet).
Both are accurate but the 14xx is Dapol's oldest model and is not a great puller (although it looks quite nice). If you are not in a hurry then I would be tempted to wait for a Farish 64xx in BR Black. Here is the engineering prototype which was showed off at TINGs a few weeks ago.
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j154/fourwheelsteer/Train%20and%20model%20rail%20stuff/WP_20150816_006_zpsfp5gfz31.jpg)
Forgot about this thread... but no, not in a hurry. In the meantime I'm making do with the closest I have by era/region ;)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/12/thumb_32076.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=32076)
Quote from: N-Gauge-US on February 02, 2016, 08:42:45 AM
I had a question about the 64xx Autocoach sandwich photo; is it being run between three autocoaches or between two autocoaches with a third coach tacked onto the end?
I have just remembered that it was not unknown for auto-trains to haul conventional coaches too. The normal train on the Moretonhampstead branch in BR days was a 6400 and autocoach. However for one up service in the morning and one down service in the evening, a corridor coach would be coupled behind the auto-train to form a through-portion on the express to Paddington.
In BR days, this seems to have been a pre-war Collett brake composite of the type offered by Dapol. There is a shot of one of these services in one of Maurice Dart's books.
Quote from: railsquid on February 02, 2016, 01:23:54 PM
Forgot about this thread... but no, not in a hurry. In the meantime I'm making do with the closest I have by era/region ;)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/12/thumb_32076.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=32076)
:laughabovepost:
Even better! Now I can run my GWR Collet brake composite behind my autotrain without feeling too guilty (which I may have done last night anyway....)! Thanks very much :)
Time passes... and finally I've found a filling for the autocoach sandwich :thumbsup:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3861/32817499485_514af98d9a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RZYgfD)
Ex-GWR 14xx 0-4-2 and 45xx 2-6-2 (https://flic.kr/p/RZYgfD) by Rail Squid (https://www.flickr.com/photos/129145651@N06/), on Flickr
Seems to be a good'un too, it handles both coaches with ease.
Some batches of the Dapol 14XX were better than others. I guess quality control was not very consistent in Dapol's early days. My 14XX has a slightly warped chimney (plastic not metal).
Railsquid your picture is even stretching rule one but at least it was a hydraulic and so we will accept it .
Bob
I agree with Chriss if you go on Utube you will see my 14xx pulling six coaches without slipping .
Bob
Thanks, Bob. Is it one of the early ND numbered batches? Do you have the box for it with the part number to hand, please?
Quote from: Bob Tidbury on February 11, 2017, 08:44:48 AM
Railsquid your picture is even stretching rule one but at least it was a hydraulic and so we will accept it .
I trust this is acceptable too then ;)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2001/31993147424_e4322751fd_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/QK8f75)
autocoaches-v200 (https://flic.kr/p/QK8f75) by Rail Squid (https://www.flickr.com/photos/129145651@N06/), on FlickrQuote from: Chris in Prague on February 11, 2017, 10:58:22 AM
Thanks, Bob. Is it one of the early ND numbered batches? Do you have the box for it with the part number to hand, please?
FWIW the one I have is numbered ND003, though the original label on the box is ND004; as it's second hand I'm not 100% sure of its origin, though it is in excellent condition. It purrs very happily and effortlessly around the layout with the two autocoaches, and I reckon it could handle a couple more. It's not phased by points or the Tomix double slips, however it (unsurprisingly) doesn't like anything more than the gentlest of gradients.
Thanks. These two ND0 series part numbers seem to be a batch of good runners. (I have Dapol ND-016 14xx BR Lined Green Late Crest 1462 which runs fine after DCC-fitting by Douglas.)
:sorrysign: Chriss my layout is down the shed and having just got over a bad cold and my wife just out of hospital Im not able to go down the shed at the moment But The 144xx is in its box so I will PM you with the number as soon as I can , mind you as with all Dapol locos if your lucky you get a good one if your very very lucky you get a superb one but if your unlucky tough luck.I have four 14xx locos one will only pull two auto coaches two can manage three but the one in the video will actually pull even more but slips a lot when starting off
I will let you know as soon as the temperature rises a bit and I go down .
Thats the down side of having a really big layout in a shed it costs a fortune in Calor Gas to heat it for a running session in the winter ,once the shed warms up you take your coat off and start to run some trains and before you know it its time for dinner or you have to be somewhere else
Bob
Railsquid is that the loco that our warships were based on ?
Bob
Thanks, Bob. No problem, I understand. I've decided to bid for an early Dapol (ND series) GWR livery 14xx but, if I win, I have not decided whether to keep it in that livery or have it reliveried in BR Black Early Crest. I wanted to know if any particular model numbers were better than others but it seems not. It seems that it's just random chance how they perform
Yes, the DB V200s were the inspiration for the BR and North British Class 42 and 43 "Warships".
Thanks Chris and sorry, its actualy snowing a bit at the moment and I dont want to get another cold and start Vals pnuemonia again shes been in Hospital for a week ,shes such a stuborn lady and wouldnt go to the doctor till I made an emergency appointment the doctor took one look at her and rang for an ambulance that way she was seen as soon as she got there ,if I took her in the car she would have been in a que for two or three hours before being seen .
As for buying anything, after the Hassle with 2A-Rail and the Trojan I wont be buying anything from ANY ONE ELSE unless I see it with my own eyes and see it running .I wont ever buy anything again no matter how good a bargain things look .
Jonny has really upset me and my trust in anyone I dont know.
As the saying goes once bitten twice shy.
But we are going way off topic now so I think I better stop before I get told off
Bob
Sorry to hear about Val. I do hope she makes a full recovery.
I too am no great fan of Ebay (although I used to buy from there) but do realise that somethings from there are good value.
Hope it stops snowing up there soon.
There's absolutely no hurry, Bob. No need to brave the cold and snow on my account.
I also hope that Val will be fine. Pneumonia is, as you know, a serious condition.
Being in Prague, if I want anything which I cannot buy new or through one of the big secondhand retailers I have to rely on eBay. I have bought hundreds of items and have had hardly any problems. I know quite a few sellers who are very reliable and friendly. However, unfortunately, as everywhere there are some who give the vast majority a bad name. I'm very sorry to read about your unfortunate experience which I had not been aware of.
Look after yourselves.
Quote from: Bob Tidbury on February 11, 2017, 06:58:14 PM
Railsquid is that the loco that our warships were based on ?
Bob
That's the one :thumbsup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DB_Class_V_200#British_Rail_Warship_Class
Since seeing V 200 018 at the Deutsche Technical Museum I have been fascinated by them ,I have two on a early 1960's British layout ,
rule 1 in extreme