[smg id=29737 type=preview align=center caption="image"]
First seen at TINGS but MREMAG claims it will be a loco + coaches bookset
http://www.mremag.com/index.php/news/325-tings2015 (http://www.mremag.com/index.php/news/325-tings2015)
It is a Dapol project not Farish!
Oops!
Oh that's quite exciting, is it likely to be attainable by expats? I won't be in the UK any time soon!
Yes, it's a fantastic news! :claphappy:
It would be even better if the HST prototype could be avaible on its own, without the whole bookset.
This is great news. I hope (probably in vain) that a full length grey/blue set will be created!
I definitely to get one these!!!!!
Brilliant!
Want.
Spend all my time complaining they don't release anything I want, then they reveal something I didn't know I wanted... :-[
I think I'm going to make a lot of people happy :claphappy:
I spoke with the product developers and with Joel at TINGS.
Its being produced for the Miller Project (the group which is bringing 41001 back to life - see http://www.projectmiller.org.uk (http://www.projectmiller.org.uk) and enjoy) and will be sold from their website and also from Dapol direct, although as Dapol say, all proceeds go to the Miller Project.
It will be in a boxed set like all production HSTs are, with a couple of coaches in reverse blue grey, and Dapol said there will also be seperate coaches in reverse blue grey to make an accurate full length train too.
Which only begs the question:
What was the consist of the prototype HST? Was it the same as the production model (i.e. on the WR it was initially TF-TF-TRUB(ish)-TS-TS-TS-TS)
Big :thankyousign: to Dapol and Miller Project
Bob
A list of the prototype Mk3 vehicles can be found here but I do not know how many were used in a typical rake as 2+10 seems quite long.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_252
I know that there was a specially modified Mk1 catering vehicle that was used for a while before the TRUK and TRSB were ready.
Now if only Rapido can be persuaded to shrink their prototype APT-E to N gauge, we will be able to recreate this scene! :drool:
(https://autobritanniadotnet.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/hst-apt-swindon-e1436262132130.jpg)
I cant imagine a mk 1 RMB doing 125 kph let alone 125 mph :uneasy:
Bob
Quote from: Bob G on September 27, 2015, 09:37:30 PM
I cant imagine a mk 1 RMB doing 125 kph let alone 125 mph :uneasy:
Yup,it was rated for 125 mph running, 3rd vehicle from the front.
(http://www.traintesting.com/images/Test%20run%20-%20early%20days.jpg)
And that was not the oldest vehicle that ran with the HST prototype either. An ex-LMS dynamometer car was a frequent addition.
(http://www.traintesting.com/images/Leaving%20Derby%20feb73.jpg)
Well i've found more details on the Mk III rake used. See http://www.traintesting.com/consist_HST.htm (http://www.traintesting.com/consist_HST.htm) for details.
When it settled down in revenue service it went back to an 8 car with TF-TF-TF-TRUK-TRSB-TS-TS-TS but was originally a 10 car train as Karhedron first suggested.
The Mk 3s had buffers in the prototype train - DAPOL PLEASE NOTE
You were right about the Mk 1 buffet in the test train. Its here, thankfully on Mk III bogies. http://www.traintesting.com/images/Test%20run%20-%20early%20days.jpg (http://www.traintesting.com/images/Test%20run%20-%20early%20days.jpg)
This is a real eye opener - i was just a spotter at the time and i was really pleased to see it at Old Oak in 1975.
I cant believe that we didnt have Mk III coaches at that time... i feel really old now :(
Bob
Hi The Mk1 buffet was a RKB 1524 mounted on lovely Mk3 bogies so a lovely or was that a lively ride available.
The MLI 208 issue is on HST pages 10 and 11 show some lovely pics of test formations with a 1939 vintage test coach and Mk1 buffet - these are available as etches from Worsley works and I am sure Adam could russle up a vinyl...
The power car shown will do for these early runs but the scrapped power car 43001 got altered roof cantrail grills production type? so more yellow front test rakes will be a near perfect representation. A test train twin pack has been suggested so hopefully a more yellow option will be possible.
Looking at pictures it is fun to see the changing location of 252001 on the front between the two vehicles..
equally bogies differed from production series - production were beefed up a bit and had differing damper arrangements
Robert
Apart Mk3 coaches and the Mk1 RKB buffet available as a kit, what can we put behind an HST prototype which could be available as RTR models in N gauge ?
The thing is that I love classes 41 and 43 locomotives. But I'm really not fond of Mk3 coaches.
Thanks.
One option is simply to run a pair back-to-back. This happened from time to time during testing.
(http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_11_2013/post-17640-0-89068000-1385143741.jpg)
(http://railphotoprints.zenfolio.com/img/s2/v53/p685881061-3.jpg)
or just a brake van for the guard? Hard to tell but looks like an ex-lms flavoured one.
(http://www.traintesting.com/images/HST%20rtc%20loop1%202-73.jpg)
Another idea is hauling test APT vehicles but that is not really an RTR option.
(http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_03_2013/post-13463-0-93286700-1364377555.jpg)
(http://www.traintesting.com/images/power%20car%20test%20train%204.jpg)
Alternatively, we will have to look at what the preserved power is/will be running with. So far it looks like mostly Mk3 stock although there are a few interesting alternatives.
(http://www.gcrailway.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/HST-41001-Keith-Satterly.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6222/6882900576_c5e9b66710.jpg)
(http://www.projectmiller.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/41001-Corfe-Castle.jpg)
I wonder if it will have sound, if so i'm getting ear plugs.
I saw her at the Haymarket sidings in Edinburgh in the early 70's and she screamed the place down - ten times louder than the current HST units.
Definitely a memorable day. :claphappy:
Quote from: Snowwolflair on September 30, 2015, 02:16:03 PM
I wonder if it will have sound, if so i'm getting ear plugs.
I saw her at the Haymarket sidings in Edinburgh in the early 70's and she screamed the place down - ten times louder than the current HST units.
Definitely a memorable day. :claphappy:
Still does 8)
http://youtu.be/f3umMl49XEg (http://youtu.be/f3umMl49XEg)
About 08:15 in ;)
Paul
What on earth were they throwing bags of spanners at in the intro minutes ?
And nice to see the VW emissions test being passed @ 3:28 :P
I hope Dapol can also release this in the departmental "more yellow" version - a frequent sight all over the network in the late 70s and 80s.
THis is the VW diesel version!
Quote from: Only Me on September 30, 2015, 10:44:37 PM
@Sprintex (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=583)
you know all about project miller matey, surely even for a preserved engine it couldn't be allowed to chuff down the line too many times sprewing that amount of clag out? Or were they burning in the new cylinder linings ? :D
They were probably running it on their waste fish an chip oil. :D
Judging by the omnipresent smokey fug floating around under the roof at Paddington until relatively recently, I always assumes HSTs were coal-fired. Was a bit bemused when I was there last year to be able to sit outside the cafe on Platform one without being asphyxiated.
Quote from: Karhedron on September 30, 2015, 01:35:26 PM
(http://www.projectmiller.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/41001-Corfe-Castle.jpg)
Totally OT but thanks for posting that pic :)
Its given me an idea or two for something ....Though nowt to do with HSTs or even N gauge!
Quote from: Only Me on September 30, 2015, 10:44:37 PM
@Sprintex (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=583)
you know all about project miller matey, surely even for a preserved engine it couldn't be allowed to chuff down the line too many times sprewing that amount of clag out? Or were they burning in the new cylinder linings ? :D
Engine hadn't been run in quite a while, and this was its first proper test run with load. As with most diesels you get oil build-up in the exhaust which has to burn off too :thumbsup:
Paul
Quote from: Sprintex on October 01, 2015, 08:37:22 PM
Quote from: Only Me on September 30, 2015, 10:44:37 PM
@Sprintex (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=583)
you know all about project miller matey, surely even for a preserved engine it couldn't be allowed to chuff down the line too many times sprewing that amount of clag out? Or were they burning in the new cylinder linings ? :D
Engine hadn't been run in quite a while, and this was its first proper test run with load. As with most diesels you get oil build-up in the exhaust which has to burn off too :thumbsup:
Paul
AH so that's what VWs defense lawyers are going to say :D :claphappy: 8) :bounce:
You go away for 2 months and 3 models that really take your interest all come at once!!!
This is by no means my era, but rule 1 firmly comes into play, this will be amazing to see running, now what don't I buy so I can afford it??
Quote from: robert shrives on September 27, 2015, 09:59:42 PM
The power car shown will do for these early runs but the scrapped power car 43001 got altered roof cantrail grills production type?
http://www.wnxx.com/images/scrap/index.php?level=picture&id=4749 (http://www.wnxx.com/images/scrap/index.php?level=picture&id=4749)
Looks like it might just have been partial replacement, presumably for lost or damaged originals.
Dear Dapol, Please, please, please, don't do this with the horrid custard dipped ends... That was a big mistake by Farish on the Blue Pullman. Please do it in its early yellow-around-the-window state!
Quote from: Mustermark on October 16, 2015, 12:37:05 PM
Dear Dapol, Please, please, please, don't do this with the horrid custard dipped ends... That was a big mistake by Farish on the Blue Pullman. Please do it in its early yellow-around-the-window state!
Or at least make sure you do both, Dapol!
Cheers,
Alan (who is still mildly dischuffed that I not so long ago bought a standard HST and 3D prints for this very project....hmm.... :hmmm: to complete or not to complete, that is the question.)
Quote from: Dr Al on October 16, 2015, 01:00:02 PM
Alan (who is still mildly dischuffed that I not so long ago bought a standard HST and 3D prints for this very project....hmm.... :hmmm: to complete or not to complete, that is the question.)
You and me both, Alan... I entered my Farish 'kitbash' of a prototype HST in the NGS competition this year, but didn't win. I only hope that Dapol creates a winner.
I for one would love to see what you could do with a 'kitbash' of your Dapol purchases.
I have got the 3D prints as well and I will continue to build so I can have a test train option for an APT - As this was towed to and from Derby a bit of rule one can apply for not having OLE.
I wonder if the 3D prints elsewhere could be used for some fantasy liveries..
Reg rail /Scotrail maybes if the fleet had had the bufferless option and had been used for overnight freights?
Robert
I've just read on RMweb that Dapol just gave some details about the upcoming HST Prototype set.
There will be 2 power cars, 8 saloons and 2 buffets. It should be available by fall 2016.
That's a huge set. I suppose a very expensive one. And thus I can withdraw it from my "to buy list". :o :(
Quote from: ohlavache on February 22, 2016, 06:42:29 PM
I've just read on RMweb that Dapol just gave some details about the upcoming HST Prototype set.
There will be 2 power cars, 8 saloons and 2 buffets. It should be available by fall 2016.
That's a huge set. I suppose a very expensive one. And thus I can withdraw it from my "to buy list". :o :(
Presumably they aren't going to sell it all as one item? The norm with HSTs is power cars and two coaches, then the rest as individual items.
Sounds like two or three boxed sets might be the route they take:
i.e. Two power cars, and a TFO and TSO coach in one boxed set, and four coaches in each of the two other boxed sets, maybe two TSO, a TFO and a buffet in each, with different running numbers, unless one coach set has the auto trailer which ran with it on test trains in DRC colours....
I don't actually remember the combination of TFO and TSO so maybe someone could help here.
But as you say, if you needed to buy all three boxes or nothing then Dapol would be limiting sales a bit :)
Best
Bob
Quote from: Bob G on February 22, 2016, 06:55:55 PM
Sounds like two or three boxed sets might be the route they take:
i.e. Two power cars, and a TFO and TSO coach in one boxed set, and four coaches in each of the two other boxed sets, maybe two TSO, a TFO and a buffet in each, with different running numbers, unless one coach set has the auto trailer which ran with it on test trains in DRC colours....
I don't actually remember the combination of TFO and TSO so maybe someone could help here.
But as you say, if you needed to buy all three boxes or nothing then Dapol would be limiting sales a bit :)
Best
Bob
Given the tooling costs, it seems likely that they will do several options. One other obvious one is a set of 41001 with its current three matching Mk3s - 11074, 10206 and 12092.
My memory failed me - on page 1of this thread I gave links to show that it did indeed run as a ten coach test train before settling down to an eight coach set in WR service.
See http://www.traintesting.com/consist_HST.htm (http://www.traintesting.com/consist_HST.htm) for details.
So enough coaches for three boxed sets as previously suggested.
When it settled down in revenue service it ran as TF-TF-TF-TRUK-TRSB-TS-TS-TS (missing a TF and a TS)
The Mk 3s had buffers in the prototype train - DAPOL PLEASE NOTE.
Best
Bob
Quote from: Bob G on February 22, 2016, 07:11:53 PM
My memory failed me - on page 1of this thread I gave links to show that it did indeed run as a ten coach test train before settling down to an eight coach set in WR service.
See http://www.traintesting.com/consist_HST.htm (http://www.traintesting.com/consist_HST.htm) for details.
So enough coaches for three boxed sets as previously suggested.
When it settled down in revenue service it ran as TF-TF-TF-TRUK-TRSB-TS-TS-TS (missing a TF and a TS)
The Mk 3s had buffers in the prototype train - DAPOL PLEASE NOTE.
Best
Bob
The other two coaches went to be converted into royal train coaches (they are still part of the royal train).
They did have buffers as you say, but there are also quite a number of other differences which it won't be practical for Dapol to do as it would require new toolings - e.g. lack of window surrounds, different roof detail, different doors, underframe dffferences.
The five which are still in revenue service (two with GW and three with VTEC) have been heavily modified and are now very similar to the later production coaches, although they do still have some differences including the roof ventilators and the lack of window surrounds.
We have seen that when manufacturers make departmental stock etc from existing bodyshells they tend to use paint to cover up windows that shouldn't be there (Farish DRC stock and yellow BSK with extras painted on) or simply ignore the differences (Dapol Auto Trailer in DRC colours, one size fits all Mk 3 Buffet) so why worry. it will be almost right, and better than anything I could paint.
Bob
Dapol have now opened a page for expressions of interest. Taking a leaf out of RevolutioN's books perhaps? ;)
http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=information%2Fnews&news_id=154#.VvAQRfn5eUl (http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=information%2Fnews&news_id=154#.VvAQRfn5eUl)
Hi all
http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=information/news&news_id=154#.VvAHwsunzqA2 (http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=information/news&news_id=154#.VvAHwsunzqA2)
Seems like expressions of interest
10 car train 2 power cars and firsts an second mk3s only no buffet as too expensive
£349.99
Needs 700 people
Cheers
Callum
£350 !!! :'( :veryangry: :censored:
Who can run 8 coaches on its layout ?
Who can spend so much money ?
Do they try kill the project ?
I fear I won't be able to get one with such a pack.
Quote from: ohlavache on March 21, 2016, 04:40:48 PM
£350 !!! :'( :veryangry: :censored:
Who can run 8 coaches on its layout ?
Who can spend so much money ?
Do they try kill the project ?
I fear I won't be able to get one with such a pack.
Hi
I can
I could and its quite reasonable for what you get.
I think they are being very sensible in testing the market.
Cheers
Paul
Quote from: ohlavache on March 21, 2016, 04:40:48 PM
£350 !!! :'( :veryangry: :censored:
Who can run 8 coaches on its layout ?
Who can spend so much money ?
Do they try kill the project ?
I fear I won't be able to get one with such a pack.
It's not going to go down in value and as I know the designer of the real train its a must have :beers:
I would like to have seen a six car option and also a re-liveried buffet pair so an owner could have various options of coach consists.
I'm also very surprised they are re-engineering the coaches just for this set.
Also what's the difference between half yellow and full yellow ends? Only thought it had one livery.
And why is there going to be a two coach option?
Nevertheless very impressed and going to work harder to earn the dosh for this beauty.
Best
Bob
Quote from: Bob G on March 21, 2016, 05:07:19 PM
I would like to have seen a six car option and also a re-liveried buffet pair so an owner could have various options of coach consists.
I'm also very surprised they are re-engineering the coaches just for this set.
Also what's the difference between half yellow and full yellow ends? Only thought it had one livery.
And why is there going to be a two coach option?
Nevertheless very impressed and going to work harder to earn the dosh for this beauty.
Best
Bob
While it was in test train use, after the production HSTs had been introduced, it had the yellow front extended further round the cab sites. I imagine that is what is referred to.
£350 does seem steep IMHO given that they are only new-tooling part of it at a glance - they have the HST powercar chassis, motor, bogies, etc, as well as the Mk3 chassis, glazing, roof tooling; implying that they need tool the powercar body/glazing/lighting and the Mk3 bodies.
Given the the 11 car Rapido Pendolino (tooled totally from scratch) is £15 cheaper, it does seem steep....
http://www.revolutiontrains.com/product/11-car-class-390-pendolino/ (http://www.revolutiontrains.com/product/11-car-class-390-pendolino/)
...either that or the Pendo is a complete bargain.
....think I'll finish my 3D print....
Cheers,
Alan
I'm booking my overtime now!
Could be interesting with several HST's of varying descriptions soon to be arriving on N gauge layouts. I feel this nations HST fleets are very undermodelled especially in N.
Quote from: Dr Al on March 21, 2016, 05:29:34 PM
£350 does seem steep IMHO given that they are only new-tooling part of it at a glance - they have the HST powercar chassis, motor, bogies, etc, as well as the Mk3 chassis, glazing, roof tooling; implying that they need tool the powercar body/glazing/lighting and the Mk3 bodies.
Given the the 11 car Rapido Pendolino (tooled totally from scratch) is £15 cheaper, it does seem steep....
http://www.revolutiontrains.com/product/11-car-class-390-pendolino/ (http://www.revolutiontrains.com/product/11-car-class-390-pendolino/)
...either that or the Pendo is a complete bargain.
....think I'll finish my 3D print....
Cheers,
Alan
New roof tooling will be needed - the prototype carriages had the same layout as the Mk3a carriages, and it's different to the production HST trailers. Up until now they have incorrectly used HST roofs on models of Mk3a carriages, so hopefully they will use the roof tooling from this on future releases.
Quote from: Nik96 on March 21, 2016, 05:33:03 PM
I'm booking my overtime now!
Could be interesting with several HST's of varying descriptions soon to be arriving on N gauge layouts. I feel this nations HST fleets are very undermodelled especially in N.
It doesn't help that an HST is a long train and needs a large layout. Scale length sets are mostly 7 or 8 carriages, and anything less than five or six looks unrealistic - and even five Mk3s and two power cars is quite a long train.
Quote from: davidinyork on March 21, 2016, 05:35:57 PM
Quote from: Nik96 on March 21, 2016, 05:33:03 PM
I'm booking my overtime now!
Could be interesting with several HST's of varying descriptions soon to be arriving on N gauge layouts. I feel this nations HST fleets are very undermodelled especially in N.
It doesn't help that an HST is a long train and needs a large layout. Scale length sets are mostly 7 or 8 carriages, and anything less than five or six looks unrealistic - and even five Mk3s and two power cars is quite a long train.
90% of the reason I would guess they aren't modeled. Even when the shorter sets such as 180's that run as four/five cars ( I think) aren't modeled either. I'm using HST in the broader sense of the term outside of the IC125's. There's the large international themed layout the size of the footprint of my house I seem to remember at exhibitions that was entirely HST's it always satisfied me mildly that it had been modeled.
Quote from: davidinyork on March 21, 2016, 05:34:11 PM
New roof tooling will be needed - the prototype carriages had the same layout as the Mk3a carriages, and it's different to the production HST trailers. Up until now they have incorrectly used HST roofs on models of Mk3a carriages, so hopefully they will use the roof tooling from this on future releases.
Of course, you assume, like I, that they won't use existing (wrong as you so correctly point out) Mk3a roofs on the prototype....
Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Nik96 on March 21, 2016, 05:41:09 PM
Quote from: davidinyork on March 21, 2016, 05:35:57 PM
Quote from: Nik96 on March 21, 2016, 05:33:03 PM
I'm booking my overtime now!
Could be interesting with several HST's of varying descriptions soon to be arriving on N gauge layouts. I feel this nations HST fleets are very undermodelled especially in N.
It doesn't help that an HST is a long train and needs a large layout. Scale length sets are mostly 7 or 8 carriages, and anything less than five or six looks unrealistic - and even five Mk3s and two power cars is quite a long train.
90% of the reason I would guess they aren't modeled. Even when the shorter sets such as 180's that run as four/five cars ( I think) aren't modeled either. I'm using HST in the broader sense of the term outside of the IC125's. There's the large international themed layout the size of the footprint of my house I seem to remember at exhibitions that was entirely HST's it always satisfied me mildly that it had been modeled.
180s are five cars, and neither they (nor the 3-car 185s, which are essential for any modern layout based on much of the north) have been done in either N or OO gauge.
Voyagers - both the 4 and 5 car variant - have been done in both gauges and seem reasonably popular with modellers.
Quote from: Dr Al on March 21, 2016, 05:44:53 PM
Quote from: davidinyork on March 21, 2016, 05:34:11 PM
New roof tooling will be needed - the prototype carriages had the same layout as the Mk3a carriages, and it's different to the production HST trailers. Up until now they have incorrectly used HST roofs on models of Mk3a carriages, so hopefully they will use the roof tooling from this on future releases.
Of course, you assume, like I, that they won't use existing (wrong as you so correctly point out) Mk3a roofs on the prototype....
Cheers,
Alan
The flyer does say 'correct to prototype roof detail'. Mk3a roofs are actually correct for the prototype - the design which Dapol normally use is correct for the HST trailers (Mk3), plus loco-hauled Mk3b first opens, and MK3a sleepers (they haven't done the sleepers though).
The early Farish HST single bogey units were simply crap. They were vastly improved by the 8 wheel drive second generation mechanisms and the Dapol units available now are also reliable if fragile.
I think this lack of performance put them out of favor in the past, however I agree there could be a renaissance on exhibition layouts particularly with the revised mechanisms and liveries.
Personally I buy an extra mechanism and double head them with a powered power car at each end.
As for 10+ train lengths, can I encourage members to join clubs where big trains are generally accommodated and appreciated.
From the flyer it sounds like Dapol are not only doing the correct roof but also the correct (frameless) windows.
While it is natural to compare say the Pendolino with the HST set I'm not sure it is at all fair. If we were starting the Pendolino now from scratch it would be considerably more expensive.
Cheers, Mike
It's not a bad price and they've clearly gone for 8 coaches to make the whole thing cost effective.
It's a pity they aren't doing any catering vehicles though, the bane of the whole MK3 saga.
Hi Gang,
The flyer states that this will be a once only production of coaches( minus buffet) with the frameless windows ,no CDL lights and prototypical roof profile. That means it will be a single production run if it makes the cut for production( and I have my doubts it will). I'm assuming dedicated design work won't start until nearing the bottom line for production....and it would be in Dapol's interest (IMHO), to make an additional batch of roofs for the aftermarket.
Personally, I'm also disappointed that the buffets will not be made.....
Later....Stu from EGDL.
Quote from: Woodenhead on March 21, 2016, 07:49:41 PM
It's a pity they aren't doing any catering vehicles though, the bane of the whole MK3 saga.
They might cooperate with a crowdfunding to run in parallel for the catering vehicles.
I'd like to precise that I was not saying that £350 were exaggerated for 2 locomotives and 8 coaches. It's not.
What is exaggerated is to have only one set proposed with 8 coaches (most of them useless when you have a small layout) instead of a set with 2 or 3 coaches and another one with additional coaches.
This would lead to a lower "entry ticket" (is that idiomatic in English?) and then be affordable to many more people. The chance to be successful would be much higher, including for the Miller Project.
Quote from: ohlavache on March 21, 2016, 11:09:14 PM
I'd like to precise that I was not saying that £350 were exaggerated for 2 locomotives and 8 coaches. It's not.
What is exaggerated is to have only one set proposed with 8 coaches (most of them useless when you have a small layout) instead of a set with 2 or 3 coaches and another one with additional coaches.
This would lead to a lower "entry ticket" (is that idiomatic in English?) and then be affordable to many more people. The chance to be successful would be much higher, including for the Miller Project.
What would have been a good idea would have been 41001 as preserved with its three matching coaches - one of which is a Mk3b, so Dapol's normal tooling would be correct for this. The RFM is a 4-window buffet so the tooling is pretty much OK for that too, and the third coach is a Mk3a - for which Dapol's tooling is correct apart from the roof detail.
I might well buy the set, but I'd have preferred a 'preserved' set as I never saw the actual prototype set (I'm not old enough!), whereas I have seen the power car in the NRM on many occasions, and have seen it working several times too at the GCRN.
Quote from: ohlavache on March 21, 2016, 11:09:14 PM
I'd like to precise that I was not saying that £350 were exaggerated for 2 locomotives and 8 coaches. It's not.
What is exaggerated is to have only one set proposed with 8 coaches (most of them useless when you have a small layout) instead of a set with 2 or 3 coaches and another one with additional coaches.
This would lead to a lower "entry ticket" (is that idiomatic in English?) and then be affordable to many more people. The chance to be successful would be much higher, including for the Miller Project.
Yes... much as I like collecting iconic/protoype high speed trains, GBP350 is more than I could possibly justify for a single train which is too long for me, so no expression of interest.
For those of you who would like a shorter set for space reasons I don't think you will have problems selling off spare accurate Mk3 prototype coaches! Think of all the uses from Royal Train conversions to being used (repainted) in production sets to give a nice bit of variety!
Cheers, Mike
Quote from: Bob G on March 21, 2016, 05:07:19 PM
Also what's the difference between half yellow and full yellow ends? Only thought it had one livery.
Easier to show than explain.
Original livery with half-yellow ends.
(http://www.traintesting.com/images/HST%20rtc%20loop1%202-73.jpg)
Later livery with full yellow ends.
(http://www.traintesting.com/images/power%20cars%20rtc%2080.jpg)
Dapol just posted the following on their FB page regarding shorter formations or individual power cars.
QuoteWe spent a long time considering this, unfortunately it only works economically this way; unsold carriages would impact the profitability (i.e. the miller groups funding) and too few would leave collectors unhappy. Likewise developing the catering vehicles would increase the cost substantially. As this project is intended for charitable purposes we have to ensure that it works financially in one production run since there will be no others to offset costs with.
Seems a shame but I can understand their reasoning.
Did the full set ever actually run with full yellow cabs? I thought they only got these in test use (with APT power cars, etc), after the prototype set had been disbanded.
Quote from: davidinyork on March 22, 2016, 12:47:32 PM
Did the full set ever actually run with full yellow cabs? I thought they only got these in test use (with APT power cars, etc), after the prototype set had been disbanded.
The custard-dips ends seem to have been acquired circa-1978. With the production fleet in mainline operation, I cannot find any pictures of the prototype set in service, just the power cars.
Quote from: Karhedron on March 22, 2016, 02:08:32 PM
Quote from: davidinyork on March 22, 2016, 12:47:32 PM
Did the full set ever actually run with full yellow cabs? I thought they only got these in test use (with APT power cars, etc), after the prototype set had been disbanded.
The custard-dips ends seem to have been acquired circa-1978. With the production fleet in mainline operation, I cannot find any pictures of the prototype set in service, just the power cars.
I've posed the question on the HST forum. There are several people on there who will be sure to know for definite.
From Dapol re catering cars for HSTQuoteHi David,
Thank you for your email and support.
I am not sure about crowd funded projects, it is not really our thing. However, I would say if enough people asked for one and we felt the demand justified it, we would look at this project seriously ourselves. Our initial feeling was demand probably would not be there in the numbers required, which may be a mistake on our part. Let us see if we get enough requests in, to change our position.
Kind Regards
Joel Bright
Director
so start sending in your requests :beers:
There were two ex-prototype HST Trailers that became Open Firsts in a production set on the ECML. they gained the normal HST interior but never the raised chrome window surrounds. I certainly saw them often in Kings Cross in Executive and later Swallow livery.
Quote from: captainelectra on March 23, 2016, 08:51:28 PM
There were two ex-prototype HST Trailers that became Open Firsts in a production set on the ECML. they gained the normal HST interior but never the raised chrome window surrounds. I certainly saw them often in Kings Cross in Executive and later Swallow livery.
Only the TRUK was scrapped - all the others still survive. One open and the TRSB are in Network Rail's NMT, two TSs are with FGW and two TSs and a TF with Virgin East Coast (there have been some conversions between first and standard over the years). They are easily identifiable as they don't have window frames, and they still retain the original type of roof vents (HST trailers converted from Mk3a carriages also have these roof vents, but VTEC don't have any of these).
Of the VTEC three, the TF is the front carriage in set EC56, and the two TSs are in set EC60 - normally the second and 4th carriages from the back if the set is in its usual formation. Apart from the lack of window frames and the roof detail, they look like any other HST trailers and have identical interiors.
Quote from: Snowwolflair on March 23, 2016, 05:12:05 PM
o start sending in your requests :beers:
Have emailed my request for buffet cars already :)
I don't think I need them frameless, just reversed blue grey.
And I really want to be one of the first 150. Perhaps they need to extend that special list that gets a signed model to 252?
Bob
On Dapol's page on Facebook, Karhedron posted an interesting picture coming from an even more interesting web site. Here it is.
With the page on the HST Prototype: http://www.traintesting.com/HST_prototype.htm (http://www.traintesting.com/HST_prototype.htm)
And the home page: http://www.traintesting.com/ (http://www.traintesting.com/)
I didn't know this web site. So I share it with you.
Quote from: Bob G on March 23, 2016, 09:25:35 PM
Quote from: Snowwolflair on March 23, 2016, 05:12:05 PM
o start sending in your requests :beers:
Have emailed my request for buffet cars already :)
I don't think I need them frameless, just reversed blue grey.
And I really want to be one of the first 150. Perhaps they need to extend that special list that gets a signed model to 252?
Bob
I'd need to check, but I'm not sure that the buffet cars had frameless windows - they were built a bit later than the open carriages and I think they might have had window frames.
So that's better - Dapol can just respray their existing model. or if they don't take up this opportunity, we can.
Bob
I emailed Dapol, and this is their reply regarding the two-coach extra pack:
"Firstly I should say, the description is in error regarding the extra coach pack. The two additional vehicles are actually the catering cars, they're offered separately as, although they will be finished to match the remainder
of the vehicles, they will be our standard catering car and unlike the mk3 carriages they will not be correct for the model. "
I also asked whether they were likely to produce 41001 as preserved with its three Mk3s, to which the reply was:
"Regarding the preserved version, it is possible that this maybe produced in due course."
You ask them the the same question and you get two different answers (see my earlier post
OR
They have caught on to the opportunity and are evolving their plans with time.
I think it's the latter... Joel seems keen to get things right for the model presentation. There are, of course, competing factors in terms of perfection, affordability, meeting the threshold to go ahead, and making money for the Miller project. I think Dapol has had feedback and is trying to match expectations of this iconic N gauge project while balancing the various factors for success.
I hope it goes ahead, then I can bin my humble homemade effort. Imperfect catering coaches seems a reasonable compromise, and I know a few of us already expressed that opinion to Joel. Better that than no catering coaches. Pristine grey/blue will look the part, and the incorrect details will be hard to spot.
Doing a set of the current preserved set could be significantly easier for Dapol - the 3 Mk3s running with the power car are production Mk3s rather than the different prototype Mk3s.
Which reminds me I must get my expression of interest to Dapol.
Cheers, Mike
Quote from: red_death on April 06, 2016, 04:13:19 PM
Doing a set of the current preserved set could be significantly easier for Dapol - the 3 Mk3s running with the power car are production Mk3s rather than the different prototype Mk3s.
Which reminds me I must get my expression of interest to Dapol.
Cheers, Mike
Yes, but the TSO is a Mk3a so has the different roof vents (which Dapol have never done yet - all their Mk3a models have the wrong roof).
But Dapol have already said they will do the correct roof for the prototype Mk3s (which will suit Mk3a as well).
Cheers, Mike
Quote from: red_death on April 06, 2016, 04:39:50 PM
But Dapol have already said they will do the correct roof for the prototype Mk3s (which will suit Mk3a as well).
Cheers, Mike
The vents are the same on prototypes and Mk3as, but aren't the roof hatches different?
Quote from: cazadoom on March 21, 2016, 03:21:26 PM
Hi all
http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=information/news&news_id=154#.VvAHwsunzqA2 (http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=information/news&news_id=154#.VvAHwsunzqA2)
Seems like expressions of interest
10 car train 2 power cars and firsts an second mk3s only no buffet as too expensive
£349.99
Needs 700 people
Cheers
Callum
Dapol Expression of Interest form
-------------------------------------
(From MRExpress)
From Dapol:
Dapol and Miller Trust HST Prototype Project
We released details of the N Gauge HST Prototype project over the weekend at the Alexandra Place exhibition.
To determine if this project is viable, we are asking potential customers to register their interest by completing the Expression of Interest form, which can be found here:
http://dapol.co.uk/image/data/HST_specification (002).pdf
If it is easier and you are struggling to complete the form , please email the details required (your name, set(s) required, contact telephone number and if possible a contact email address to Dapol at sales@dapol.co.uk
Please note, we are not asking for money or deposits, the purpose of the registration is to see if there are enough people interested in the purchase to make the project viable and sensible. If we do not receive more than 700 Expressions of Interest, then we will not proceed. All registrants will be kept updated on progress of the project from finalisation of the design, production of tooling, engineering prototypes to the livery application. Once complete, the model can be purchased ether direct from the Miller Project or via the Dapol Website.
The project will involve the production of an all new Power car and correctly modelled coach tooling. The only matter of compromise will be the buffet as it was considered this would put too much cost on the set for one coach.
As detailed when first announced at Warley, all trade profits are being donated to the Miller Project for the continued upkeep of this incredibly important prototype.
It is now in potential customer's hands to see if this model is created. We will publish updates regularly on progress to reach the target expression total.
The July 2016 edition of Rail Express reports that this model is to go ahead with a revision to the proposed pack contents:-
2 power cars
2 x 5 car sets of TS/TF and buffet. (corrected in the next post below).
It also says these will be the only prototype Mk3s as the tooling will be altered afterwards to ??????
Surely not Royal Train Mk3s.
Sounds promising but might be slightly errored
2 car power car pack in less yellow fronts
2 car power car pack in more yellow - suited to test days
2 off 4 car coach packs with all vehicles covered 2 X TH and 2 TS
Then a twin pack of RFMs doing best to be TRUK and TRSB prototypes
The moulds for the coaches -without CDL bubbles and perhaps the other roof moulding allow creation of early loco hauled stock and pre CDL HST stock... interesting times...
The Royal and Dr Yellow options could only be generic stock due to the changes bought about over time, but would work for many....
cheers
Robert
What Dapol are proposing sounds very sensible, I must say.
Well, that's one sale to me for a full HST-P :claphappy:
Very happy with the options, seems like the packs are a very good fit for people's requests on this thread and the one on RMWeb.
Did somebody recently make up this term 'HST-P'? I've never seen it used apart from for this model - it is always the prototype HST or HSDT (High Speed Diesel Train). the -P suffix was only ever,so far as I am aware, applied to the electric version of the APT.
Quote from: Crooked Spire on June 14, 2016, 09:07:58 PM
Specification from the Dapol site
The specification of the model is:
Power cars:
• Operating lighting (inclusive of rear lamp, which can be overridden by a switch)
• Flush Glazing
• Highly detailed body, chassis and bogies.
• NEM coupling pockets with Rapido and Ezi-shunt magnetic couplings inclusive.
• DCC Ready (6 pin)
• All wheel pick-up
• Super-creep motor (Dummy car is un-motorised)
• Available as two-car sets (1 x Motorised & 1 x Dummy)
• 2D-xxx-xxx Power Car Pack 1: Prototype passenger livery (DMBs: 41001 & 41002)
• 2D-xxx-xxx Power Car Pack 2: Departmental (overall yellow ends DMBs: 975812 & 975813)
Coaches:
• New Tooling
• Recessed door handles
• Without window bezels
• Loco-Hauled type roof
• Without CDL indicator blister
• Buffers
• Light-bar ready
• Fitted pickups
• NEM Coupling pockets
• Accessory pack.
• Available as 2 x 4 car sets
• 2P-xxx-xxx Contents: 2 x TF (11000, 11001) and 2 x TS (12000, 12001)
• 2P-xxx-xxx Contents: 2 x TF (11002, 11003) and 2 x TS (12002, 12003)
Catering Vehicles:
We have examined the possibility closely of producing the catering vehicles, and have taken the decision to produce these as a separate 2 car pack based on our existing Mk3 catering car and decorated in matching HST-P livery, but without any tooling modifications.Therefore the catering pack will be:
• Dapol Mk3 Buffet car in matching HST-P livery
• Lightbar ready
• 2P-005-xxx 2 car Buffet Pack
• 10000 as Trailer Buffet (TRSB)
• 10100 as Trailer Kitchen (TRUK)
Therefore in order to own a full HST-P set you will need the following:
1 x 2D-xxx-xxx (Power cars)
1 x 2P-xxx-xxx (Saloon pack 1)
1 x 2P-xxx-xxx (Saloon pack 2)
1 x 2P-xxx-xxx (Buffet pack)
Hi
I must be missing something but I can't see this on the Dapol website.
Cheers
Paul
Try the forum section
Quote from: davidinyork on June 15, 2016, 03:32:56 PM
Try the forum section
https://digest.dapol.co.uk/forum/n-gauge-models/diesel/class-41-hst-p/project-managers-blog-ak/415-hst-p-opening-post
Is it just me or is the website down? Is this project still good?
When I spoke to them at TINGS it was authorized to proceed. Just waiting its turn on the CAD.
well if http://www.projectmiller.org.uk/ (http://www.projectmiller.org.uk/) is the website then the admin needs to fix it.
Quote from: mickster04 on October 04, 2016, 09:11:54 PM
well if http://www.projectmiller.org.uk/ (http://www.projectmiller.org.uk/) is the website then the admin needs to fix it.
The Project Miller website was nothing to do with the model, although it may have been mentioned on there.
Project Miller was set up by 125 Group solely for the restoration of 41001 to working order, which has been achieved and since it is now running in preservation I believe that's why the Project Miller website is no longer active, because the "project" is essentially complete.
Paul
Quote from: Sprintex on October 04, 2016, 10:39:27 PM
The Project Miller website was nothing to do with the model, although it may have been mentioned on there.
...
Paul
Ah there's, my mistake. I assumed they were related.
Quote from: Snowwolflair on October 04, 2016, 11:42:35 AM
When I spoke to them at TINGS it was authorized to proceed. Just waiting its turn on the CAD.
Whaaaat? They are going ahead? But not a dicky bird to those who expressed an interest. Can it be true?
Just need to pursuade RevolutioN to get hold of Rapido's CAD for the APT-E and I will be a happy bunny.
Yes please Ben and Mike ,The APT tilting train would be something I would get the family to buy for me ,even if it didn't actualy tilt.
Trouble is people would only buy one so I doubt it would be a viable model unless it cost a fortune .
But the development work is already done it just needs Jason's crew to get the shrink gun out and scale it down.
We've not ruled out the APT-E in N though we have to negotiate with the NRM first and then see if there is sufficient interest to produce it.
Cheers, Mike
The APT would be nice , unfortunatly I can't manage to buy the other models you've proposed the tankers looked brilliant at TINGS I have so many freight wagons I have no more room for more .I can't wait for my Popylino which although way out of my era and I've no overhead wires was an extra stretched rule one buy, as so would the APT be. But my layout is a preserved railway so they could be visiting and even towed by a preserved Diesel loco.I do run quite a mixture of stock I just enjoy running trains.
I hope to go to the show at Gaydon this weekend mainly to see Tormouth,will you be there ?
Bob
Quote from: red_death on October 05, 2016, 10:25:17 AM
We've not ruled out the APT-E in N though we have to negotiate with the NRM first and then see if there is sufficient interest to produce it.
Cheers, Mike
Mike,
Are you mad!!!
Of course there'd be sufficient interest, you've seen everyone drooling over the Orribly Oversized one. You can definitely stick me down for one.
Cheers
Neal.
I would be very tempted in the HST prototype and APT-E although it would be a "Gareth Rule 1" purchase (my rule one is if it still exists then why cant you run it on a modern layout we have seen westerns on freight services in the north east after all)
From what I remember from the Dapol open day (I have slept since then well kind of :-[ ) the Mk3 coaches are in CAD for some of the alterations needed at the moment
Hi add me on that dribbling lst !!! Some fun if extra vehicles for rule one railways where there was in blue tinted glasses a whole fleet in service on non electric lines - Say Inverness mainline mixing it with 26s on freights and pairs of 27 in push pull mode on air con rakes etc .
cheers
Robert
Quote from: acko22 on October 05, 2016, 11:36:56 AM
From what I remember from the Dapol open day (I have slept since then well kind of :-[ ) the Mk3 coaches are in CAD for some of the alterations needed at the moment
Your memory is spot on :D
Quote from: Snowwolflair on October 05, 2016, 11:38:56 AM
Your memory is spot on :D
Makes a change then :smiley-laughing: