Spurring off from the Niven/Pournelle sub-thread ("evolution in action"), my mind went to a Niven series on mana and then onto a (deleted ?) short from Zelazny for an anthology in the Mana universe. It was, of course, then only a short jump to Amber ... ::) and finding not only some (unauthorised) eBooks but also 5 shorts in the Amber universe I can't recall reading ... :o
So I now have a bunch of Amber tales to browse on my Kindle next I'm on the train to/from London :thumbsup: I guess I can live with the odd typo ::)
Quote from: MikeDunn on September 01, 2015, 02:54:49 PM
Spurring off from the Niven/Pournelle sub-thread ("evolution in action"), my mind went to a Niven series on mana and then onto a (deleted ?) short from Zelazny for an anthology in the Mana universe. It was, of course, then only a short jump to Amber ... ::) and finding not only some (unauthorised) eBooks but also 5 shorts in the Amber universe I can't recall reading ... :o
So I now have a bunch of Amber tales to browse on my Kindle next I'm on the train to/from London :thumbsup: I guess I can live with the odd typo ::)
My mind isn't working!
I haven't the foggiest idea what you are writing about?
Peter.
See the thread on the idiots who put their heads on the (turned off, but how were they to know ?) 3rd rail ...
Quote from: petercharlesfagg on September 01, 2015, 04:44:37 PM
Quote from: MikeDunn on September 01, 2015, 02:54:49 PM
Spurring off from the Niven/Pournelle sub-thread ("evolution in action"), my mind went to a Niven series on mana and then onto a (deleted ?) short from Zelazny for an anthology in the Mana universe. It was, of course, then only a short jump to Amber ... ::) and finding not only some (unauthorised) eBooks but also 5 shorts in the Amber universe I can't recall reading ... :o
So I now have a bunch of Amber tales to browse on my Kindle next I'm on the train to/from London :thumbsup: I guess I can live with the odd typo ::)
My mind isn't working!
I haven't the foggiest idea what you are writing about?
Peter.
I'm glad you posted that Peter. I haven't a clue either !
Quote from: port perran on September 01, 2015, 06:02:11 PM
Quote from: petercharlesfagg on September 01, 2015, 04:44:37 PM
Quote from: MikeDunn on September 01, 2015, 02:54:49 PM
Spurring off from the Niven/Pournelle sub-thread ("evolution in action"), my mind went to a Niven series on mana and then onto a (deleted ?) short from Zelazny for an anthology in the Mana universe. It was, of course, then only a short jump to Amber ... ::) and finding not only some (unauthorised) eBooks but also 5 shorts in the Amber universe I can't recall reading ... :o
So I now have a bunch of Amber tales to browse on my Kindle next I'm on the train to/from London :thumbsup: I guess I can live with the odd typo ::)
My mind isn't working!
I haven't the foggiest idea what you are writing about?
Peter.
I'm glad you posted that Peter. I haven't a clue either !
Me either
Jerry, Larry and Roger are a bit miffed at not being known.....
Lol :doh:
With post like this there hope me at long last.mike
Must be something to do with David Niven and Roger Moore
Quote from: petercharlesfagg on September 01, 2015, 04:44:37 PM
Quote from: MikeDunn on September 01, 2015, 02:54:49 PM
Spurring off from the Niven/Pournelle sub-thread ("evolution in action"), my mind went to a Niven series on mana and then onto a (deleted ?) short from Zelazny for an anthology in the Mana universe. It was, of course, then only a short jump to Amber ... ::) and finding not only some (unauthorised) eBooks but also 5 shorts in the Amber universe I can't recall reading ... :o
So I now have a bunch of Amber tales to browse on my Kindle next I'm on the train to/from London :thumbsup: I guess I can live with the odd typo ::)
My mind isn't working!
I haven't the foggiest idea what you are writing about?
Peter.
Peter, nor have I. Can anyone explain - in English if possible please?
Explained in English.....................gibberish... ;D
Nobody thought to Google it then? :no:
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/316876.The_Chronicles_of_Amber (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/316876.The_Chronicles_of_Amber)
Guessing you have to know the story to get what Mike is banging on about in the OP, but at least now we all know what it refers to we can get off this pseudo-superiority "I know something you don't" trip ;)
Paul
The Niven/Pournelle spur leads directly to Mornington Crescent :)
Cicked on the link. Looks like a swords and sorcery thing. Not my bag, but each to his (or her) own, after all Tolkien is very popular and well regarded.
I do remember the Amber series by Zelazny. I read them in the 70s. Perhaps we should start a Fantasy/SF thread? Anyone remember the Stainless Steel rat series?
Being quite a few hours ahead of you UK lot, I have watched with some amusement how the kid's head on the line thread morphed into a discussion of obscure literature.
I have never read any of it either, but did realise it was referencing Science Fiction novels, which, as I say, I have never read and will not now. Too busy reading model railway mags and learning how to drive Arduino!
Quote from: Malc on September 02, 2015, 09:46:02 AM
I do remember the Amber series by Zelazny. I read them in the 70s. Perhaps we should start a Fantasy/SF thread? Anyone remember the Stainless Steel rat series?
I'll see your Rat & raise you a DeathWorld :P
Quote from: MikeDunn on September 02, 2015, 10:07:32 AM
Quote from: Malc on September 02, 2015, 09:46:02 AM
I do remember the Amber series by Zelazny. I read them in the 70s. Perhaps we should start a Fantasy/SF thread? Anyone remember the Stainless Steel rat series?
I'll see your Rat & raise you a DeathWorld :P
Never worked out why SF and Fantasy are linked. Good SF is a logical story based on the premis of a scientific developement beyond that which is current, whereas when you allow magic, anything can happen and that, for me anyway, makes the whole thing incredible.
My favourite SF author is Azimov, his robot stories especially and he has written some cracking detective stories which are only classed as SF because they are set in a period with a colony on Mars.
Quote from: MikeDunn on September 02, 2015, 10:07:32 AM
Quote from: Malc on September 02, 2015, 09:46:02 AM
I do remember the Amber series by Zelazny. I read them in the 70s. Perhaps we should start a Fantasy/SF thread? Anyone remember the Stainless Steel rat series?
I'll see your Rat & raise you a DeathWorld :P
Both good Harry Harrison novels.
Have you read his Star Smashers of the Galaxy Rangers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Smashers_of_the_Galaxy_Rangers)? Talk about a pee-take :D
In the 'space opera' vein (with more than a passing nod to the 'hard SF' arena) I do enjoy the Honor Harrington (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorverse)series by Weber.
And moving to the UK again, the alternate history of the Thursday Next (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thursday_Next)series by Fforde is hilarious :thumbsup: Neither Swindon nor Reading have ever been the same to me since ... ::) Let's face it : any history that has George Formby as the English President has got to have something (weird) going for it !
Quote from: steve836 on September 02, 2015, 10:42:21 AM
Never worked out why SF and Fantasy are linked.
Tend to agree with you there, Steve. Although I used to be keen on SF, later in life I much prefer Fantasy, with Raymond E. Feist and Janny Wurts being high on my 'best authors' list. However, I would judge Frank Herbert's 'Dune' (started off as a trilogy and ended up as 6 books) as a good mix of the two. Just my opinion, though.
Anyone into fantasy and looking for a great read should check into 'The Cycle Of Arawn'. If you have a kindle, it is available now on Amazon for one pound ninety-nine peez... It's a three parter and that is the price for the whole thing. Can't recommend it highly enough.....
Quote from: steve836 on September 02, 2015, 10:42:21 AM
Never worked out why SF and Fantasy are linked. Good SF is a logical story based on the premis of a scientific developement beyond that which is current, whereas when you allow magic,
,,, his robot stories especially, ,
and Nightfall for eg. which could have become a fantasy but he neatly avoided it being so.
Couldnt agree more,
>> But it's horribly sexist. Like a lot of sci-fi writers of his generation
>> Niven was writing for teenage boys and young men,
I may have been one of them !
Quote from: MalcolmAL on September 02, 2015, 10:32:02 PM
and then there is Heinlein who had some great satirical semiSF propositions ( Storm Ship Troopers
I assume you mean
Starship Troopers ? A decent book, but one that did upset various other authors ... One I enjoy; ditto
Star BeastQuotewhere vas I ,, oh yes Heinlein,, if you want some really strange sexual SF conjunctions remember his Hamadryad stuff ?
??? No ... ? Hamadryad was a small character in
Time Enough For Love ? Can't say I recall anything strange in there ? Another good book, basically a collection of tales with another tale woven around them.
Quote from: MikeDunn on September 02, 2015, 10:55:17 PM
Quote from: MalcolmAL on September 02, 2015, 10:32:02 PM
and then there is Heinlein who had some great satirical semiSF propositions ( Storm Ship Troopers
I assume you mean Starship Troopers ? ]
quite right, why assume, obvious want it ? mustav been mixing with SteeleyeSpan, forgive me ?
Quote?? No ... ? Hamadryad was a small character in Time Enough For Love ?
Yes that is true, but much developed in later stuff
QuoteCan't say I recall anything strange in there ?
Really!
wait till you read the The Hamadryads (as a class) later stuff
Quote from: MikeDunn on September 02, 2015, 10:55:17 PMbut one that did upset various other authors ...
Oh go on then, I know you are dying to, , ,
Those uninterested in this topis, please click your <back> button now - you have been warned ::)
Quote from: MalcolmAL on September 02, 2015, 11:13:14 PM
Yes that is true, but much developed in later stuff
Ah, you mean in
The Cat Who Walked Through Walls and
To Sail Beyond The Sunset ? Yes, he did expand earlier tendencies in those.
Quote from: MalcolmAL on September 02, 2015, 11:21:24 PM
Quote from: MikeDunn on September 02, 2015, 10:55:17 PMbut one that did upset various other authors ...
Oh go on then, I know you are dying to, , ,
Well, not really, but ...
(for those who don't know,
Starship Troopers is (like the title suggests) a story about a man who joins a space-faring military as a trooper; it is a Hugo award winner - unlike the film which is a pile of :poop: ::); they bought the name to slap onto a B-grade movie hoping for a better turnout than otherwise they'd get :( Apparently a sympathetic (to the book) version is on the cards)
There are several areas; personally, I feel it's people trying to make things out of nothing, but ... :
- Rampant militarism - that the book glorifies war. Joe Haldeman (another author) is reputed to have hated this idea so much he wrote The Forever War as an antithesis to Starship Troopers (this other book, winner of Nebula, Hugo and Locus awards, treats war as dirty & depressing, with the troops considered no more than machines), as well as a commentary on the Vietnam War he was in. Not a story I enjoyed, far too long & depressing, in my opinion ! And I've read Dick's "Do Andoids Dream Of Electric Sheep ?" so I know a long depressing book when I see it :P Possibly part of the argument here is that it's the first SF novel to be on the reading list for 3 of the US's military branches ?
- Fascism - the Federation can be viewed as a Fascist organisation; again, I think it's over-analysing the story ... But this thread was pulled out in the film (check the uniforms, for example). One argument for this is that only veterans can vote; another the compulsory teachings of "moral philosophy" in the schools. However, there is some evidence that points to Switzerland as the source of his thoughts on these lines ... and also that Federal Service is actually the source of the vote, the military arm being a small part of this; the book also states the Federation is a democracy ...
- Utopian - the book shows a wonderful Federation, far from the realities we have. Well - is this different from other stories ? ::) Both Farmer & Moorcock have had scathing opinions on Utopianism ...
- Racist - the Arachnids are approached as a pest to be exterminated. That's because they want the same type of planets that we do, and they apparently began the war by their own exterminations of humanity on a planet they wanted ... The reaction to that & the hive mentality they have (think ants) seems to be the objection, which various people have mapped against racial epithets used in the Korean and Vietnamese theatres
Harry Harrison was mentiond earlier; well,
Bill, The Galactic Hero is a p***take against
Starship Troopers ::) It's OK, but the series is dismal ...
Overall, the book gave us some items that have become staples in SF : space marines is the obvious one, as is powered armour. The film
Aliens borrows a lot from the story (the cast of Marines were required to have read the book as part of their preparation for the film). Looking at reality, aspects of the powered armour are slowly making it into the modern armies; how long before we do have a real-life example ?
Not forgetting the best version of Starship Troopers. http://youtu.be/QQKVqVpoMxw (http://youtu.be/QQKVqVpoMxw)
Now, how about "Stranger, in a strange land" for a good book?
Quote from: Malc on September 03, 2015, 02:21:50 PM
Not forgetting the best version of Starship Troopers.
But but but ... where's Sarah Brightman :P
Quote
Now, how about "Stranger, in a strange land" for a good book?
Original printing, or the original manuscript (late printing) ?
Quote from: MikeDunn on September 03, 2015, 02:57:00 PM
Original printing, or the original manuscript (late printing) ?
I dunno, I borrowed it from the library in the early '60s. I think it was fairly new when I read it.
That's be the heavily-edited version then ... you may wish to grok the proper one :thumbsup:
"over-analysing"
yep, agreed :)
having lived thro' and appreciated the music of Joan Baez etc
satire on "hegemony" and "raceism is what I would choose,
and I dunno about B-movie, I thought it illustrated the absurdity (with tongue firmly you know where) quite well without going to the lengths that H. thought were needed.
Anyway moving on,
grok
now there's a word I've not seen/heard used in a long while :)
If anyone wants some on-line reading of semi-hard SF and MF (MathFiction) with, at times strange diversions into ummm,
not exactly fantasy more sort of Anne McCaffrey style imagery then
try some Greg Egan shorts, go down to "Stories" :-
http://gregegan.customer.netspace.net.au/BIBLIOGRAPHY/Online.html (http://gregegan.customer.netspace.net.au/BIBLIOGRAPHY/Online.html)
HomePage
http://gregegan.customer.netspace.net.au/ (http://gregegan.customer.netspace.net.au/)
Anyone got other reading matter links to share ?
PS
"electric sheep"
ah yes,
anyone else a fan of the sleeping computer fractals version/implementation ?
PPS
http://www.electricsheep.org/ (http://www.electricsheep.org/)
Quote from: MalcolmAL on September 03, 2015, 07:57:32 PM
and I dunno about B-movie, I thought it illustrated the absurdity (with tongue firmly you know where) quite well without going to the lengths that H. thought were needed.
Except that they'd already designed a movie & then went "hey, can we buy the
Starship Troopers name for this ?" ... it wasn't actually adapted from the novel ... just had enough similar aspects for them to con people :(
For reading links - you can't go wrong with the Baen Free Library (https://www.baenebooks.com/c-1-free-library.aspx)...
Or :
(devil)
& then had the wit to realise "hey, can we buy the Starship Troopers name for this ?" cos it is a perfect fit
(/ 's advocate)
falls about laughing
well it wouldnt do to agree all the time else there would be nothing left to talk about ;)
Thanks for the link, a little more manageable than Project Gutenberg !
Have a look here: https://www.bookbub.com/home (https://www.bookbub.com/home)
You will get one email per day with your interests as selected in the form of free or VERY cut price ebooks.
...and, the Gutenberg listing is excellent too, but, as you say, not so manageable.....