In the new issue of RM our very own Ollie of Sheaf Valley fame has his very own column!! It's all about ageism in modelling and worth a read.
Watch out Ollie, BBC News may be after you working for them next!
For those who may be interested, he also hints that he may / will be selling the SVR so if you want to grab it I'd get in touch with him now as it's a great layout and sure to find a home quickly.
Well done on the piece Ollie, it's well written, readable and insightful.
By the way, I have no connection with Ollie except for being served by him once in the shop! Wish I'd got his autograph now...
There is also featured Umbridge, the N gauge layout of the REC Farnborough. Visitors and potential members are always welcome. Running night is Tuesday 18th.
Tony
I'll be getting my copy at the weekend but - am I old enough to read Ollie's article? :worried:
Well I have just read Ollie's article and I have to say how well it is written, personally I never knew there was an ageism problem in model railways but with Ollie going round the country with Sheaf Valley Railway then he must be correct, shame on you oldies lol.
I do hope Ollie has more article's written in RM as it is allways nice to read about N Gauge in the RM.
I snuck into a well known supermarket and got a copy today.
Completely agree with Geoff about Ollie's article - great job, Ollie, you young whippersnapper ;D
I read it with interest, too.
What struck me more than anything was the obvious dissonance between the attitudes Ollie reports ("surprised to see you involved in our hobby, young man; it's really a hobby for older folk to enjoy") and the regular lament that one reads that "we're all getting older the hobby will die if we don't attract more younger modellers".
We can't have it both ways, can we?
Personally, I think the hobby can remain perfectly viable if the majority of people only come to the hobby in their 40s and 50s, when they have a sporting chance of affording the rapidly escalating cost of models; but that having been said, I am completely indifferent to the age of my fellow modellers, because that seems to me to be a total red herring. I'm interested in the models they build, not the length of time they've been on this planet. As far as I'm concerned all are welcome, young and old; and one of the most inspiring modellers I know is another young whippersnapper, Rudi Newman, who builds some amazing Era 1 stuff (including working broad gauge, and his prize-winning diorama of the Rainhill Trials!).
Mind you, have you noticed how few women and minority ethnic modellers there are?? There have been some, particularly high-profile women modellers (Shirley Rowe; Yvonne Shillabeer); but on the whole it is pretty clearly a white man's hobby. Is this because women and minority ethnic folk aren't interested in playing trains? Or is there a deeper-seated attitude issue within the hobby at play here?
Sadly not going to be able to get a copy well not at the moment anyhow.
As to ageism well I am 30 and granted while I am younger than most I havent felt like I have been openly discriminated against or looked down at due to my age.
If anything its the opposite people have been very friendly and welcoming, I think in reality its all about personality I know there are people.my age who are arogant :censored: bags who wonder why people dont like them.
It all depends on how willing people are to engage with younger people, I can appreciate the stand off some people will have with people my age and younger though and you cant blame them.
Quote from: PGN on August 14, 2015, 08:31:57 AM
Mind you, have you noticed how few women and minority ethnic modellers there are?? There have been some, particularly high-profile women modellers (Shirley Rowe; Yvonne Shillabeer); but on the whole it is pretty clearly a white man's hobby. Is this because women and minority ethnic folk aren't interested in playing trains? Or is there a deeper-seated attitude issue within the hobby at play here?
Maybe you are forgetting the ladies that post on here, Caz as one superb layout and I am supprised how many ladies do model, when you mention ethnic minorities, I was searching you tube about computer control and one person from India has a superb layout and the video is a joy to watch ok it is not our scale but the detail he has put in to the operation of his layout is commendable.
If you look up Abendstern Computer Control on You Tube it is well worth a watch, he does state there is a lack of interest in his country and how hard it is to get hold of products, but this goes to show there maybe more ethnic people in the hobby who do not publicise the fact they are railway modellers.
And don't forget another of our mods, Pengi, who is also a very accomplished railway modeller! :thumbsup:
Will Ollie be signing copies of RM at TINGS?
Maybe, but it could devalue the copy of RM :P ;)
Well done @Ollie3440 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4)! I haven't read it myself, but I'm glad that you've written such an article having had the ageism happen to me on a number of occasions on here.
Been on a cruise for two weeks with 70 different natinalities in the crew, and 40 amongst the passengers. Had dinner every night with a brilliant Texan couple. He has a 10ft x 6ft H0 layout, and we found that we have a lot in common. He taught me a few things, and he was seduced by the simplicity of my folded-figure-of- eight ( with add-ons) track layout, compared to his multi-level swooping and diving plan. Language soon ceased to be a barrier.
Hopefully Ollie's piece will help to bridge the age divides where they exist. I am all for sharing our expertise and giving praise where due regardless of age, gender or race.
Language soon ceased to be a barrier?
I have always had trouble understanding Texans, too. :D
Sounds like you had a great time. :thumbsup:
I think that Mrs Bealman would not be amused if I talked model railways on a cruise!
Quote from: Bealman on August 15, 2015, 03:12:33 PM
Language soon ceased to be a barrier?
I have always had trouble understanding Texans, too. :D
Sounds like you had a great time. :thumbsup:
I think that Mrs Bealman would not be amused if I talked model railways on a cruise!
Fortunately being Texans they spoke slowly. The US and UK words differ for almost everything - ties, tangent, ROW, engineer, boxcar, consist, etc. etc.
The wives never noticed our conversation, too busy talking to each other about important things.
Ageism works two ways, I well remember, on another forum, telling a young person that I was interested in early BR and he replied "oh steam" and discontinued the dialogue.
My son who is currently 13 helps out with our layout and Jon Dean's (PostModN66) layouts Deansmoor and Lofthole Oil Terminal when we go to exhibitions.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/22/thumb_26753.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=26753)
Sorry, can't spin the image. It must be an age/technology thing! :D
He says he mostly experiences happy surprise at his signalling trains on Jon's layouts. (They're set up to shunt on the front, as a deliberate bait to lure young and old alike into 'having a go'. Our layout just has the point controls on the front but for the same reason).
On Deansmoor this involves accepting trains and signalling them through including dropping the level crossing barriers and shunting the cement sidings. They do sometimes ask how he learnt to do it though. His polite explanation is that Jon is a good teacher, but the fact they ask implies to him he shouldn't know!
[mod]Image turned, downloaded into my image editing program, turned 90 degrees and re-uploaded - Caz[/mod]
Evening all!
Glad people enjoyed my article, was a pleasure to be asked to write a comment piece. I've got a couple more articles up my sleeve to submit for future editions too :)
Cheers,
Ollie
:NGaugersRule:
Quote from: Ollie3440 on August 17, 2015, 09:04:23 PM
Evening all!
You are Dixon of Dock Green and I claim my £5 :D
There he is I thought he had gone to ground lol.
:thumbsup:
I thought he was dead!
Quote from: steve836 on August 18, 2015, 10:08:58 AM
I thought he was dead!
Yeah, but Ollie is very young so might not know that.
:oopssign:
Ageism :angel:
I thought Steve was on about you !!! :P :P :P
Amazing how they managed to bring old Dixon back to life for the series ... ::)
Quote from: steve836 on August 15, 2015, 05:29:03 PM
Ageism works two ways, I well remember, on another forum, telling a young person that I was interested in early BR and he replied "oh steam" and discontinued the dialogue.
Is age not an irrelevance in that? He just had an interest in a different era and was perhaps a bit rude about conveying that...
I certainly commend Ollie for writing such an article, I have to say I've noticed at exhibitions how punters tend to either be <10, or >50. Not a problem per se, but it's sad in a hobby as niche as ours that there is any sort of baseless 'in fighting'.
Quote from: njee20 on August 18, 2015, 04:23:57 PM
I've noticed at exhibitions how punters tend to either be <10, or >50.
I'm sure that's because other things get priority such as education, the opposite sex, getting a job, seeking property, getting wed etc etc*
* Not necessarily in that order
I just suspect it's not 'cool' for most people. They drift away in their teenage years, then return in later life.
I don't think you can really combat this though.
Agreed. There are many hobbies that people carry on throughout their lives, new houses, children & careers notwithstanding.
It is a hobby which requires a certain amount of stability, space, time and to some extent capital. Having been a poor-ish student, then working various time-intensive jobs, moved multiple times in multiple countries and lived mainly in rental apartments, it was just never practical to think about actively doing anything with model railways. Happily I now find myself, 25 years after my previous 'Orribly Oversize stage of life, in a permanent home with a reasonable amount of space and time and means of finance.
I agree that time money and space are factors. I can only just find time now that the kids are grown and there absence from the family hovel is what has given me the space. I have two friends with younger children who are interested in model railways but one can't afford to buy the much stuff. And neither have space for a Perminant layout.
As for the youngsters we see at shows I have noticed that many are brought by their twenty or thirty year old dads so perhaps they are the hobbies future just waiting their moment!
One experience I had recently at the South Devon Railway gives hope too I overheard a lad in his late teens explaining to his girlfriend (possibly now ex :D) how angry he was at a model company for making a loco with the wrong tender shape for the BR black livery so young modellers are out there.
I can identify with much of this. My lifestyle is itinerant in many ways and in addition to relatively frequent moves, I can be away from home for months on end. I don't have space to build a permanent layout, nor can I guarantee that such a layout would fit into the next home. Nor do I want my wife to have to live with some half-finished project dominating a room while I'm far away. The answer for me is Kato unitrack. Within literally a few minutes I can have s layout up and running on the dining table - and packed away as quickly. I use Kato Japanese stock and buildings, which are designed with such a scenario in mind. It's not Pendon by any means but it does get me running trains - and with electric points no less! So it's great fun and keeps me 'modelling'. My avatar is a photo from one such session. The Japanese stuff is also cheaper - a top quality flywheel driven 2-8-2 for £60, carriages for about £10 each, and the 3 car unit in the avatar cost about £40 IIRC.....
I'm lucky in that respect, as I have the room these days for all the model train stuff, can buy what I want when I want (assuming I can find it first ::)), and SWMBO is into the hobby, probably more than me !!!
She's the 'bad influence' behind my last two engine purchases; and she also buys her own stuff in OO (and sometimes in N - at least one engine in N is hers, although as it's not LNER I tell her she has to build her own layout for it :P My arm is recovering slowly, thank you :smackedface:); she's working (slowly) on what the replacement OO layout will be, seeing as she pulled the last one up a few months ago, unhappy with it (she does this a few times a year ::) although this one was the most major for a couple of years - nothing left !)
Mike. To save further injury you could build a model based on the North London line( Barking to Wimbledon, IIRC)This was an LNER route but all the other companies had running rights.