I've built a small layout and have come to a halt as I can't find a basic book/manual that will help me to design and build a simple scenic backdrop. All I can find on this forum is aimed at the very clever... not much for starters like me. Can anyone point me to a suitable publication to help.
:wave:
I don't know if it helps but there are lots of commercially produced backdrops available.
Will none of those be suitable?
some of the peco ones are quite good despite their age, or you could try painting your own, if I can do it anyone can
Appreciate your suggestion. I think I lack imagination. I look at some of the tracks built by many members and say - I can't do this! I think I can build but I need to work to a plan and know what I need to acquire to put it all together. I would like a back to basics - "here is how you design; this is how you build (a bridge or tunnel for example), build a level crossing; even the sort of material you put on the base board for different effects.
I'll look at the Peco publications and maybe there is something out their which will become my bible.
Thanks anyway.
This thread may help you with your back scene. http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=14456.0 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=14456.0)
With whatever you do in this hobby remember that everyone was a beginner/starters once,even those who layouts you may wish you could aspire to, and probably most of them would have made mistakes or didn't like there early attempts. The good thing about back scenes if you have a go at painting your own is you can alway paint over it in sky blue and have another go. Better to have a go and fail then try again than not try at all.
You can use tester pots from the likes of B&Q or Homebase, they're cheap enough. You may be surprise what you can achieve when you have a go. Nothing ventured nothing gained. :)
Quote from: saddlers on August 01, 2015, 08:26:52 PM
Appreciate your suggestion. I think I lack imagination. I look at some of the tracks built by many members and say - I can't do this! I think I can build but I need to work to a plan and know what I need to acquire to put it all together. I would like a back to basics - "here is how you design; this is how you build (a bridge or tunnel for example), build a level crossing; even the sort of material you put on the base board for different effects.
The N-Gauge society handbook has quite a lot of useful information on that kind of subject and makes good reading. There are also a series of pamphlets from Peco which cover various aspects of model railway construction.
In general - don't worry too much, like Jack says it's a learning process. Do one bit at a time, and don't be afraid to experiment. As a beginner myself, literally last week I decided to create a small "diorama" on a bit of old shelf to experiment with scenery techniques, as I kept finding tutorials online giving the impression I had to model the exact soil colour before daring to put down some grass, and giving contradictory information about types/mixture of glue, soo I sat down and experimented and found it was not as hard as I imagined.
As far as backscenes go... right now I appear to be modelling a railway located on Planet Plywood Sky, but I intend to paint them sky blue just as soon as I get round to it :D. I deliberately made the backboards detachable so I can improve them at a later date.
I hope I'm not barking up the wrong tree here :confused1: I'm assuming that you want to know how to do a scenic backdrop ie actual scenery to go amongst your track work, not how to make a flat painted or photographic backdrop on a backboard. I am building a layout at the moment and before I started I did a lot of searching in google images to get inspiration, I made copies of anything I thought looked interesting and eventually got a better idea of what I wanted to do.
It also helps to narrow things down if you have an idea of location and era for your layout. Make a list of scenic features you would like to include ie station, goods yard, town, harbour etc.
When you are doing scenery you need as many references both real and model as possible to help you get inspiration.
As you are in England going to model railway shows and taking photographs is a good idea too.
What you should aim to do is to get ideas from a number of sources and combine them into something new but if that isn't working you could make a straight copy of someone else's layout, it would be unlikely to be exactly the same once you'd finished anyway BUT if you do go that route and intend to exhibit your layout I think you would need to acknowledge the original layout builder.
Even though I'm building a layout I'm forever looking for ideas from magazines books and the Internet. Believe it or not I even look at layouts for sale on eBay for interesting ideas!
Quote from: Jack on August 02, 2015, 12:33:56 AM
With whatever you do in this hobby remember that everyone was a beginner/starters once,even those who layouts you may wish you could aspire to, and probably most of them would have made mistakes or didn't like there early attempts.
I ran my first layout, built by my dad for me, about the time I started school and now, as a retired man, am building yet another, having lost count of all those in between.
They are perfect, not a stone of ballast out of place and every detail included, they work perfectly and win modelling awards :thumbsup: :).
Trouble is, once I get them out of my head and onto the baseboard all that perfection disappears in a flash :'(! I don't know where it vanishes to :worried: but it does, every time :confused2: ::) :-[.
What I'm trying to say here is Jack is spot on, few 'get it right' every time, even with experience, so sit back, enjoy the 'game' and if it doesn't go right don't worry, you are in very good company. :)
Above all it's a hobby, something to do to fill in the otherwise empty hours; it's not worth losing sleep over.
Steve, why don't you post your plan and let us have a go at a scenic treatment - you might get a few ideas to start you off.
Cheers Jon :)
Good idea about posting your plan.
Another source of reference is you tube, there are lots of videos showing how to do things. Here is a random example from a series of episodes http://youtu.be/k91eE-Gjw5w (http://youtu.be/k91eE-Gjw5w)
It is a 00 layout but the methods are the same.
I agree with the others as regards the learning process, don't be afraid to try things out and change them along the way if they don't come out quite right, that's how we all learn.
My layout is called 'Trial N Error' which describes the building process.
:NGaugersRule:
These days there are fantastic photo backscenes available which will do the job. I painted my own, but only because the photo ones weren't around at the time.
If you are painting, even a simple blue sky background is better than nowt. Use heaps and heaps of white. Start with blue at the top, making it lighter and lighter downwards, until at the bottom or near the horizon, it is amost white.
You can add clouds or hills and buildings later. An old but effective trick is to use old calendar and postcard scenes and blend them in with your backscene. :thumbsup:
I would either go for a flat single colour back scene (greyish blue), or a photo back scene. On my last layout I found the location the provided a suitable back scene, took the photo and printed it. On the first attempt this was too bright and over powering so I then faded the colours and reprinted. Once printed I then cut the sky off and stuck the photo to the board that was painted a flat sky colour. The overall effect worked well and was easy to do. I will most likely do something similar on the layout that I am creating at the moment, however I will need to do a lot more photo editing as I need to back date modern day photos to make them appropriate.
A great help and thanks. But I find my lack of imagination the biggest problem. The locos works fine and all the wiring seems fine but its featureless. I want to build bridges, goods yards and hills. There is a multitude of goodies in the shops but I really need to start wit a grand design. I would also like to work out how to build ground scenery . My feeling is that I should have designed it all first before laying out the track. My plan is therefore to give my wife the job of drawing out a plan (goods yards etc) and then i can go to town. By the way, I think there is an "n" gauge magazine, if true, how do i get it? Do I "join" up?
:thankyousign:
Steve, have a look at the 'N Gauge Society' website. I only started in this hobby a few months ago and have got half a layout done. I realise you say you lack imagination, but get yourself a few paint testing pots, greens/browns etc, some 'grasses' from a model shop and start playing around! Above all, enjoy yourself :). David.
Quote from: saddlers on August 02, 2015, 09:18:40 PM
By the way, I think there is an "n" gauge magazine, if true, how do i get it? Do I "join" up?
If you mean the 'N' Gauge Society mag, yeah, join up and you will get it mailed to you regularly. It is very good and a great deal of help in all aspects of the hobby.
The most useful thing that you could do however, in the short term, is to get your track plan on here. You will have ideas coming out of every corner.....
Regards, Allan.....
Quote from: saddlers on August 02, 2015, 09:18:40 PM
A great help and thanks. But I find my lack of imagination the biggest problem. The locos works fine and all the wiring seems fine but its featureless. I want to build bridges, goods yards and hills. There is a multitude of goodies in the shops but I really need to start wit a grand design. I would also like to work out how to build ground scenery . My feeling is that I should have designed it all first before laying out the track. My plan is therefore to give my wife the job of drawing out a plan (goods yards etc) and then i can go to town. By the way, I think there is an "n" gauge magazine, if true, how do i get it? Do I "join" up?
:thankyousign:
Some run flat layouts and concentrate on complex rail plans or operations for interest. Others like running trains through scenery - that's my category. Steve, is what you are looking for the latter set-up with significant topography?
In constructing my scenery I adopted an experimental iterative approach. My basic track plan is a dog bone folded around three sides of a room. This plan was adopted because I wanted continuous running and didn't want a duckunder. Maximum width of the sides of the layout was fixed by reach and the need to return the trains at either end of the dog bone. The left hand leg of my layout I wanted to be hilly terrain so I put in some hills and pushed the planned track route in and out to travel through this terrain in a semi sensible way. This involved installing tunnels, bridges, cuttings and embankments.
Hills etc. are not hard to build once you've decided approximately what you want. There are a number of ways of making hills and other terrain and these are well described in various manuals, web pages etc.. I originally planned to use cardboard strips on a plywood frame all covered with plaster, but I quickly decided this was too inflexible. Now, I use Styrofoam sheets as the basic landform and cover this with plaster cloth and a plaster-type substance called Scupltamold. The great thing about Styrofoam sheeting is that you can cut it or add to it until you get the form you want (i.e. experiment with the shape). I too have a certain amount of difficulty imagining things beforehand.
How flexible are you with the track plan you have presently? Would it be better to start with the features you want to include and put the track through it?
Webbo
Quote from: Bealman on August 02, 2015, 07:29:17 AM
If you are painting, even a simple blue sky background is better than nowt. Use heaps and heaps of white. Start with blue at the top, making it lighter and lighter downwards, until at the bottom or near the horizon, it is amost white.
You are thinking of Australian skies, Bealman. For a typical British summer I would be inclined more towards grey! :rain: ::)
:D
I use grey on my layout for the sky, living in the North West I wonder where I got the inspiration???? ??? ??? ???
Good idea, I'm away for a few days and will have a go when i get back. By the way, I know of this forum (obviously!!) but didn't realise there was an organisation behind this which I would like to join. I'll check the links and see where that gets me.
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/Smileys/NGF/thankyousign.gif (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/Smileys/NGF/thankyousign.gif)
Quote from: saddlers on August 03, 2015, 09:08:29 AM
Good idea, I'm away for a few days and will have a go when i get back. By the way, I know of this forum (obviously!!) but didn't realise there was an organisation behind this which I would like to join. I'll check the links and see where that gets me.
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/Smileys/NGF/thankyousign.gif (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/Smileys/NGF/thankyousign.gif)
The NGS (society) and NGF (forum) are independent of each other, though there is a lot of overlap in membership.
I hadn't realised that. I have now and will sign up for membership when i get home next week. Thanks for your help.
:D
Thanks for providing that point of info, Squiddy. :thumbsup:
I guess it is easy for a newcomer to mix up NGS with NGF!
saddlers, once again, welcome to the forum, and there are heaps of resources available to get you going in this wonderful hobby. :thumbsup:
I think it's important not to get too bogged down with this. Unless you are modelling a real location almost anything goes so long as it looks plausible. My layout is still in its very early stages - the track is down and the location of the station and canal are fixed. Anything else is subject to alteration. I have a number of buildings salvaged from my previous layout of long, long ago plus more recent purchases, and I will probably dot them about the layout and move them around until they look right. Looking at the real world also helps. For example there will often be shops near the station, even if it's only a newsagent. Take a few photos in and around railways to give you ideas to work from. If at a later date something doesn't look right, you can always change it.
Relax. Be happy.
Cheers,
Chris
Quote from: Papyrus on August 03, 2015, 10:49:43 AM
I think it's important not to get too bogged down with this. Unless you are modelling a real location almost anything goes so long as it looks plausible. My layout is still in its very early stages - the track is down and the location of the station and canal are fixed. Anything else is subject to alteration. I have a number of buildings salvaged from my previous layout of long, long ago plus more recent purchases, and I will probably dot them about the layout and move them around until they look right. Looking at the real world also helps. For example there will often be shops near the station, even if it's only a newsagent. Take a few photos in and around railways to give you ideas to work from. If at a later date something doesn't look right, you can always change it.
Relax. Be happy.
Cheers,
Chris
I agree with Chris, in particular that so long as it looks right is all that matters. For examples if building an LNER or BR(ER) layout set in Norfolk or Lincolnshire DON'T put a mountainous backdrop ( :-[) or flat lands for a layout based in the North or West Scotland ( ::)) and you should be alright!
It's the 'impression' which counts, not so much the detail.
P/S One important detail to watch out for in background scenes if purchased from a shop is the 'out of date' details which might need to be hidden by a building or clump of trees.
Example: Few people actually like 'wind farms' but they are now part of the landscape. They are 'acceptable' for 'modern layouts' but out of place for anything 'historical', even as recent as the 1980s in most cases. Look carefully for such out of place detail because if you don't find it the first visitor to your layout will! ::)
I think we have at least three different interpretations of Steve's original query running here simultaneously.
Steve, I forgot to mention in my last post - I share common ground with you as I also have a history with Trix Twin - yay!. I still have a couple of TTR locos that are running mentioning this at the risk of adding yet another variation on this thread.
Webbo
Agree. Breathe the air, smell the roses, so to speak! :beers:
George
I agree with all the above.
i always seem to start with laying track that I think will be interesting to operate and then try & squeeze buildings etc in after. But I enjoy it and its only for me so I dont worry.
My biggest fear is that one day I may finish my layout. then what would I do!!
Do the same as me Biggy, dismantel it and start again. To be honest I had not even finished mine, but layout number two is in the planning something I did not do last time.
QuoteDo the same as me Biggy, dismantel it and start again. To be honest I had not even finished mine, but layout number two is in the planning something I did not do last time.
Yes indeed. I have about six possible new layouts planned :bounce:
Back to the main topic. I waited a long time before I started my layout when I returned to the hobby because I was not confident about my ability to build a good baseboard. In the end I just gave it. Go. They're not exhibition standard but they work So my advice is just give it a go. Also do visit exhibitions to get ideas and read up on real railways and you will soon have more ideas than you can use.
Hi Saddler,
An easy way to get to grips with scenery is to have a look at the 'Woodland Scenics' tutorials on YouTube (just type in Woodland Scenics). Other scenic scatters, bushes, trees etc are out there but it will give some great pointers as to how to apply scenic materials.
This forum is also a great source of ideas and 'how to's' so don't be afraid to ask 'the collective'
Woodlands Scenics also has a how-to guide booklet (WS Scenery Manual) that describes many different aspects of scene construction including roads, trees, water, grass, rocks etc.. Even though it is heavily slanted towards WS products, it is still a very useful guide for scenery construction. It's probably best to consult other booklets on scenery construction also to provide perspective.
Webbo
As mentioned, there does seem to be confusion between a 'backdrop' and the scenery - I think Saddlers really means scenery though ...
As a couple of the guys have mentioned, the Woodland Scenics range is quite good (I'm constructing a layout based on an old plan & using their polystyrene range to create the basis for the terrain - see http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=3448 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=3448) for details & photos). As long as you have an idea of what you want, the WS stuff is quite good. You can put them down & play with things, get an idea of how the layout will appear in 3D (or the track areas, anyway - but it can be used in the more scenic areas; just check out the WS videos on their web site).
Hope this helps to spark ideas ...
Mike
Quote from: saddlers on August 01, 2015, 07:34:41 PM
I've built a small layout and have come to a halt as I can't find a basic book/manual that will help me to design and build a simple scenic backdrop.
But actually wrote 'backdrop' Mike.
Saddlers, can you tell us which please?
Scenery can form a backdrop, especially if there's a railway in front of it :) I think that the photo or painting that's attached to the backboard is a back scene.
I think saddlers will probably need both.
Saddler -
I recommend that you treat your first effort as a "test track" rather than a layout; i.e. a track on which to test things out. If they work, they work - leave them in place and enjoy them. If they don't work, remove them, and chalk it up to experience.
Part of the issue you have is that, if you've laid your track before even thinking of scenic, then you're almost inevitably headed for the "flat earth" look. In the real word, the landscape came first, and then the railway was built through it. So really you should plan your landscape before, or at least no later than, you plan your track. If you build the railway first, and then try to plan the landscape around it, then it almost always ends up looking wrong.
However, if you're building a test track, trying out techniques, experimenting and so on, then that doesn't matter. The point of a test track is to have something to run your trains round, and to hone your skills.
There is a good article by Noel Leaver on "Avoiding the flat earth look" in NSpirations no 5.