Bit of an abstract topic.
The other day I found myself idly scrolling through buildings kits for sale on a website, and a thought occurred to me. After doing a certain amount of kits, and a certain amount of scratch-building, including (sorry) some ships which is my other thing: I now know that I could in theory scratchbuild most all of these structures.
I don't mean that I could just rustle up a precise and detailed professional model railway building right now, oh no, but that, given sufficient time, sweat, and frustration, such a thing would be possible. Not to mention small things like crates, loads, etc.
Whereas at the beginning this seemed like crazy talk, and I assumed that all scratchbuilders were actually architects for their day job. The realisation that what one human has done, another can, in theory, do. I was no longer a total noob. I was a small % less noob than I had been ...
This got me thinkin'. What are some other things you only realise about the hobby 'after a certain point'?
That me and electrickery will never be a match made in heaven :-[ :'(
That I'm infinitely better at starting things than I ever am at finis
I think the point arrives when you decide you're going to have a go at scratch building something. When it all (literally) falls apart you keep on going. Then, all of a sudden, you realise it hasn't fallen apart and you've got in front of you that building, tree, item of rolling stock or even loco is just what you hoped it would be.
Cheers
That a lot of tasks needed to make a model of a railway are pretty simple ones, if looked at objectively - I think people get scared by looking at the whole picture and not "bit by bit", therefore they won't push themselves to do what they most probably are capable of :)
Quote from: njee20 on July 24, 2015, 10:09:40 PM
That I'm infinitely better at starting things than I ever am at finis
:laughabovepost:
One of the joys of the hobby...
The leaning of new skills and the sense of achievement when it goes right for the first time...
Quote from: JasonBz on July 24, 2015, 10:43:19 PM
That a lot of tasks needed to make a model of a railway are pretty simple ones, if looked at objectively - I think people get scared by looking at the whole picture and not "bit by bit", therefore they won't push themselves to do what they most probably are capable of :)
:worried: That's me although slowly finding my modeling skills, thing I have found for me is getting stuff I think I need before I actually do! I have finally learnt don't get it until I know I need it! may take a little longer and a few more trips but saves the pennies!!
That I really could lay and wire track in more than a simple oval...
Quote from: acko22 on July 25, 2015, 01:26:14 AM
Quote from: JasonBz on July 24, 2015, 10:43:19 PM
That a lot of tasks needed to make a model of a railway are pretty simple ones, if looked at objectively - I think people get scared by looking at the whole picture and not "bit by bit", therefore they won't push themselves to do what they most probably are capable of :)
:worried: That's me although slowly finding my modeling skills, thing I have found for me is getting stuff I think I need before I actually do! I have finally learnt don't get it until I know I need it! may take a little longer and a few more trips but saves the pennies!!
I do the opposite... Serependitiously purchase bits and pieces (usually from the sales bin) which look kind of neat, and work out what to do with them afterwards. I suppose it would be different if I was modelling a real location, but I'm making it up as I go along. Case in point - a while back I found a pair of Peco tunnel portals, and as they were dirt cheap and you don't find much Peco stuff in Japan I snapped them up with no particular plan, anyway after a while it occurred to me they would - suitably "bricked up" - make an excellent "dead end" for part of my layout and right now I'm building a hillside to embed them into.
I started off about a year ago with literally nothing, and it's actually taken me this long to start actually doing some scenic stuff. It definitely helps to have acquired a whole lot of bits'n'bobs including tools, generic scenic bits and the aforementioned random purchases. I've also been ferreting away a variety of non-modelling-specific items which look like they might be handy (my wife gives me odd looks - "
what do you want with that junk?") such as some coffee-stirrers which have just come in handy.
Umm, anyway not up to scratchbuilding quite yet, but the more I mess around with this stuff, the more I can some point in the dim and distant future when I could have a crack at that.
Squid,
I had the general idea and when I saw something that look like it would fit the idea I got it then by the time I got home realized nope it didn't so now after doing this too many times I go out looking for that something I want not getting it because it may fit in lol!
To be honest I can see myself getting to that point pretty soon ;).
For me it's. If you want to do something get the right kit first. It costs a bit more up front but saves time and money in the long run.
This learnt when I tried soldering wire to my track with an old large soldering iron no flux no stand no chance ended up with a lot of melted sleepers and no connection >:(
When I first came to this scale (not so long ago) I was of a mind to model a canal.
So wanting a quick solution as one does at the start 'cos you want to see the trains running I was taken by the 'Lyddle End' canal models which were obviously already well out of production.
Over a couple of months I managed purchased all the necessary bits from that well known web site where the price in not always right and chasing rarer items all over the country.
And Now? well you can guess, not now suitable for the current plans and I could have scratch built a better example.
Oh well, 'No fool like and old fool'.
Quote from: colpatben on July 26, 2015, 06:48:06 AM
No fool like and old fool'.
I say this to myself every morning as I look in the mirror, my wife agrees!
What does she know she's older than I am!
Nevertheless, non-finishing of projects is an inherited trait in my family!
Never mind Peter .
My friend in Canada says her Dad has never ever finished a layout in the last 42 years but at least he keeps trying. But that's part of the fun .
Bob
Interesting replies.
It's an interesting situation to be in with this vast range of more or less prefab scenic items available. It undoubtedly makes the hobby more accessible which brings in £££/$$$ which is vital for it to exist at all, but I wonder if it impacts on the general idea of 'what the hobby is about'? i.e. makes the hobby 'about' kits.
I realised after a certain point quite recently that sticking to Peco track was a very good idea. Years ago I used quite a bit of Atlas track including their points which was very frustrating.
Quite recently I thought I could get away with a simple circle of Lima set track, bad idea! I'm now replacing it with Peco track so I can get decent running.
:NGaugersRule:
Quote from: Biggy on July 25, 2015, 09:55:32 PM
For me it's. If you want to do something get the right kit first. It costs a bit more up front but saves time and money in the long run.
This learnt when I tried soldering wire to my track with an old large soldering iron no flux no stand no chance ended up with a lot of melted sleepers and no connection >:(
Very true - the best costs less ;)
Quote from: Trent on July 26, 2015, 06:08:05 PM
Interesting replies.
It's an interesting situation to be in with this vast range of more or less prefab scenic items available. It undoubtedly makes the hobby more accessible which brings in £££/$$$ which is vital for it to exist at all, but I wonder if it impacts on the general idea of 'what the hobby is about'? i.e. makes the hobby 'about' kits.
I thought the hobby was about trains? ???
Quote from: silly moo on July 26, 2015, 07:06:50 PM
I realised after a certain point quite recently that sticking to Peco track was a very good idea. I'm now replacing it with Peco track so I can get decent running.
:NGaugersRule:
I totally concur S/M. The only fault I've found with Peco track over the years that I've been using it is that if you try loose ballast you get problems (almost certainly my own inexperience with using it) and that the sleeper spacing/gauge isn't right for British prototype, but good for much of the rest of the world (an understandable commercial decision).
People go on about other types but I'm happy too with what I have.
But in future it's Code 80 and ballast inlays for me as I found that produces reliable results, even if it doesn't look 100%.
Electrickery I can cope with. It's the scenery that causes me issues. I have managed to get to the stage where the electrics, track work, and ballasting are complete only to have a little go with the scenery and stop.
I have currently 2 months to finish the wiring and point motors and then do a complete 6 foot scenic section on top of them ready for the 3rd October.
Alistair
Quote from: alibuchan on July 27, 2015, 09:14:05 AM
Electrickery I can cope with. It's the scenery that causes me issues. I have managed to get to the stage where the electrics, track work, and ballasting are complete only to have a little go with the scenery and stop.
I have currently 2 months to finish the wiring and point motors and then do a complete 6 foot scenic section on top of them ready for the 3rd October.
Alistair
Alistair, I THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart :thumbsup:.
Others make scenic work seem so simple but like you I find it most baffling :-[!
I was beginning to think I was alone with that particular problem.
Regards,
Greg.
I must have completed the wiring on 5 or 6 layouts for various people and myself. I just don't have that artistic creativity when it comes to the scenery side.
Where as one of my mates can't do electrics for toffee but give him a board with track down and in a running state and a week later secenery is done and annoyingly it's done very well. His layouts are booked in to shows with just a name not seeing it or pictures because it's not yet been built. He will produce a layout to suit that name.
Alistair
QuoteOthers make scenic work seem so simple but like you I find it most baffling
You definitely don't want to google image search for Michael Confalone Allagash Railroad.
Uses actual dried leaves, put through different blenders to get different gradings (!!!) and then handcrafts a mound of dried leaves under every deciduous tree on an a great outdoors layout that fills an entire yank basement. He also does partly melted snowdrifts.
The only natural scenery I've cracked is nasty styrofoam cliff faces. Can't be doing with most model trees either since I saw Supertrees in action and they are very expensive and fragile. I cut my losses and went urban themed, which solved some probs but introduced something called 'roads' which I just don't get because I'm not a driver
Quote from: Trent on July 27, 2015, 11:33:58 PM
QuoteOthers make scenic work seem so simple but like you I find it most baffling
I cut my losses and went urban themed, which solved some probs but introduced something called 'roads' which I just don't get because I'm not a driver
Snap. As a non car driver/owner myself I recon it's what helped me pay off the mortgage 7 years early.
Returning to topic do you think that's the problem with our scenic work?
Maybe we should start a new thread - do motorists make better scenic modellers than non motorists? :hmmm:
What do you think, Trent?
Greg.
Quote from: D1042 Western Princess on July 28, 2015, 07:31:44 AM
Quote from: Trent on July 27, 2015, 11:33:58 PM
QuoteOthers make scenic work seem so simple but like you I find it most baffling
I cut my losses and went urban themed, which solved some probs but introduced something called 'roads' which I just don't get because I'm not a driver
Snap. As a non car driver/owner myself I recon it's what helped me pay off the mortgage 7 years early.
Returning to topic do you think that's the problem with our scenic work?
Maybe we should start a new thread - do motorists make better scenic modellers than non motorists? :hmmm:
As another non-car owner, I must say this whole scenic lark is quite fun, so far. Not that I've got very far, just the one hill as of the time of writing, which will need a good rigorous flocking before I can decorate it with lichen.
QuoteSnap. As a non car driver/owner myself I recon it's what helped me pay off the mortgage 7 years early.
Returning to topic do you think that's the problem with our scenic work?
Maybe we should start a new thread - do motorists make better scenic modellers than non motorists?
What do you think, Trent?
Definitely if you've got real life experience of something - not necessarily technical knowledge, just experience - it's much easier to replicate it
I don't think you can just say do motorist make better scenic modellers, but experience of what you are trying to model always helps.
I am going to be modeling an area on western edge of the Pennines near Saddleworth moor, mostly because I know the area and the look I am going for after spending many a day walking across there!
Also make a note of any paint colours used for large areas of scenery and if you have a ballast recipe ( I mix three colours together ) make a note of that too. Make a note of which colours of scatter material you use as well.
All of the above is useful if you need to make alterations to your layout.
Quote from: silly moo on July 29, 2015, 04:41:17 PM
Also make a note of any paint colours used for large areas of scenery and if you have a ballast recipe ( I mix three colours together ) make a note of that too. Make a note of which colours of scatter material you use as well.
All of the above is useful if you need to make alterations to your layout.
Same applies if you bake yer own bread!!! Oh yeah.....
I think the biggest revelation for me was the realization that it's not actually "cheating" to pay somebody else to do for you those things which you lack the skills / time / inclination to do for yourself. After all, how is this any different from buying a RTR locomotive rather than scratch building it for yourself??
So now, instead of struggling with my lousy carpentry to produce baseboards which don't provide an adequate basis for a layout and weigh an absolute ton, I pay a little bit more (but not a lot more, when you consider the amount of wastage involved if I attempt it myself) and have somebody who understands carpentry and can actually DO it build them for me.
And all those locos sitting waiting to be renumbered, relined or reliveried when I can find the time to do it? Slowly but surely, as funds permit, they're being sent away to be done by somebody else.
So now my time can be spent on (a) building and painting all those models I've always wanted to build and paint for myself, and (b) turning my test track into a "layout", learning the scenic skills along the way, in anticipation of my first portable scenic layout, which will come next, I promise ...
For me it was your wallet runs and hides every time you have a new idea.
Also need to do more planning before investing in ideas that are not practical given space restrictions.
Quote from: silly moo on July 29, 2015, 04:41:17 PM
Also make a note of any paint colours used for large areas of scenery and if you have a ballast recipe ( I mix three colours together ) make a note of that too. Make a note of which colours of scatter material you use as well.
All of the above is useful if you need to make alterations to your layout.
While agreeing in principal S/M it should also be noted that ballast can change colours quite dramatically on the prototype where PW work has been carried out and fresh ballast laid, so a variation in this would not necessarily be wrong.
Planning is just one of my weak areas, I do do great track plans that are close to real world settings and work well in practice but then I start a build and it all goes Pete Tong
Quote from: Lawrence on August 20, 2015, 09:01:23 AM
Planning is just one of my weak areas, I do do great track plans that are close to real world settings and work well in practice but then I start a build and it all goes Pete Tong
:D Just like mine - award winning stuff, not a lump of ballast out of place, no electrical problems, the layout wins 'Railway of the Month' places in magazines - right up until those first few feet of track are laid then :worried: :-[ :censored: :help: :veryangry:!
Strange, isn't it!