Having almost finished putting together, painting, and lettering three 1-plank stone-carrying wagons, I'm wondering how to represent dressed (or undressed, I'm not fussy) blocks of Portland stone or granite in N Gauge. I don't have access to the real stuff... at least, not unless I pop into town and start chiselling away at the poshest-looking building (which will probably be a bank). Any ideas?
How about DAS modelling clay?
Portland Stone, a kind of limestone, can be easily prepared for N Gauge by crushing real limestone. Your local tiling shop or gravestone mason will probably let you have a piece and then you place it in a bag or within several sheets of newspaper and wallop it with a hammer to crush it, and pick out the sized pieces you want. You should wear safety goggles in case splinters of rock try to fly out - eyes are precious!
Granite is much more tricky. Real granite has crystals that are 150 times too big so will look silly if crushed and then picked out for N Gauge usage. However, there are other kinds of rock which have much smaller crystals (e.g. diorite from Leicestershire, dolerite from several places around the UK such as the Mendips and Co Durham, and gneiss from the Scottish Highlands) which would crush to give you pieces of the correct size and mixture of minerals. Again your local tile shop or stone mason might let you have a piece, or else have a look round a builders salvage yard - old kerb stones are a good source.
Quote from: Pete33 on July 14, 2015, 05:28:16 PM
I don't have access to the real stuff... at least, not unless I pop into town and start chiselling away at the poshest-looking building (which will probably be a bank). Any ideas?
Honestly, Officer.
I was just breaking, not entering :angel:
:laughabovepost: :smiley-laughing:
Like! :thumbsup:
Gerard :laugh:
Quote from: msr on July 14, 2015, 07:04:10 PM
Portland Stone, a kind of limestone, can be easily prepared for N Gauge by crushing real limestone. Your local tiling shop or gravestone mason will probably let you have a piece and then you place it in a bag or within several sheets of newspaper and wallop it with a hammer to crush it, and pick out the sized pieces you want. You should wear safety goggles in case splinters of rock try to fly out - eyes are precious!
Granite is much more tricky. Real granite has crystals that are 150 times too big so will look silly if crushed and then picked out for N Gauge usage. However, there are other kinds of rock which have much smaller crystals (e.g. diorite from Leicestershire, dolerite from several places around the UK such as the Mendips and Co Durham, and gneiss from the Scottish Highlands) which would crush to give you pieces of the correct size and mixture of minerals. Again your local tile shop or stone mason might let you have a piece, or else have a look round a builders salvage yard - old kerb stones are a good source.
Hmm... out of all the options, a chunk of limestone sounds the best bet. I wanted a load of Portland stone anyway. Thanks :)
Milliput. Make up a roughly shaped block and let it set. You can then cut it with a razor saw into blocks and/or scribe it into slabs. When done paint it a......... shade of sandstone?
Cheers
Looking through books (the recently published 'Stone to Build London' by Gill Hackman is especially good and devoted to Portland Stone) it would seem as though the stone was roughly shaped before dispatch by rail. Roughly hewn blocks can be seen being transported within the Isle of Portland by narrow gauge railway and then transferred as such to the mainline railway onto open 3-plank wagons. The photo on page 171 of Hackman shows a mainline train load with the first two wagons containing rubble and the following dozen containing large blocks, at one block per wagon.
This page has many excellent photos:
http://www.geoffkirby.co.uk/PortlandArchivePictures/html/stone.html (http://www.geoffkirby.co.uk/PortlandArchivePictures/html/stone.html)
Your might also be inspired by the model built by the Yeovil Group, who have a description of their former dimension stone quarry railway, Albion:
http://www.ymrg.co.uk/albion-quarry/ (http://www.ymrg.co.uk/albion-quarry/)
Quote from: msr on July 15, 2015, 09:42:04 AM
The photo on page 171 of Hackman shows a mainline train load with the first two wagons containing rubble and the following dozen containing large blocks, at one block per wagon.
This page has many excellent photos:
http://www.geoffkirby.co.uk/PortlandArchivePictures/html/stone.html (http://www.geoffkirby.co.uk/PortlandArchivePictures/html/stone.html)
Now that's just the kind of image I had in my head. The blocks in this photos would be about right for 1-plank wagons on the main line:
http://www.geoffkirby.co.uk/PortlandArchivePictures/assets/images/GP0273.jpg (http://www.geoffkirby.co.uk/PortlandArchivePictures/assets/images/GP0273.jpg)
Quote from: Bangor Lad on July 14, 2015, 10:42:25 PM
Milliput. Make up a roughly shaped block and let it set. You can then cut it with a razor saw into blocks and/or scribe it into slabs. When done paint it a......... shade of sandstone?
Haven't worked with Milliput for years and years... Perhaps this is a more workable method than crushed limestone, although that can be sawn too, can't it?
Milliput is great stuff t work with. Once it has set you can saw it, carve it and abuse it all sorts of ways. I might have a go to see what I can do if you like? The photos in the earlier links are very helpful.
Cheers
By all means have a go. It'll certainly be interesting to see what you come up with. I'll carry on lettering the wagons this evening, and then they have to be suitably weathered for carrying dusty stone loads.
Quote from: Pete33 on July 15, 2015, 04:17:40 PM
By all means have a go. It'll certainly be interesting to see what you come up with. I'll carry on lettering the wagons this evening, and then they have to be suitably weathered for carrying dusty stone loads.
I'll have a crack this evening and let you know how it goes :)
Quote from: Bangor Lad on July 15, 2015, 05:00:22 PM
Quote from: Pete33 on July 15, 2015, 04:17:40 PM
By all means have a go. It'll certainly be interesting to see what you come up with. I'll carry on lettering the wagons this evening, and then they have to be suitably weathered for carrying dusty stone loads.
I'll have a crack this evening and let you know how it goes :)
OK. I've made a start by making up two elongated 'blocks' of Milliput. These are roughly square in section. When these have hardened (probably by tomorrow evening) I'll see about cutting them into blocks and trying to get the riven edges.
Cheers
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/mosaic-tiles-52-30mm-X-30mm-square-Limestone-Marble-Mix-/121701525765 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/mosaic-tiles-52-30mm-X-30mm-square-Limestone-Marble-Mix-/121701525765)
pick up a sheet of those from somewhere and take a dremel to them.
Quote from: cjdodd on July 15, 2015, 09:31:06 PM
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/mosaic-tiles-52-30mm-X-30mm-square-Limestone-Marble-Mix-/121701525765 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/mosaic-tiles-52-30mm-X-30mm-square-Limestone-Marble-Mix-/121701525765)
pick up a sheet of those from somewhere and take a dremel to them.
Now that's another very good idea. Potentially cheap, too.
Quote from: Pete33 on July 15, 2015, 11:13:09 PM
Now that's another very good idea. Potentially cheap, too.
Pete,
How about an even cheaper option, you're in Somerset so why don't you just drive down to Weymouth/Portland and pick up some real Portland stone?? ;) ;)
And have a nice day on the beach with some fabulous fish & chips.......
Just an idea :P :P
Regards
Neal
Quote from: Calnefoxile on July 16, 2015, 02:21:46 PM
Pete,
How about an even cheaper option, you're in Somerset so why don't you just drive down to Weymouth/Portland and pick up some real Portland stone?? ;) ;)
And have a nice day on the beach with some fabulous fish & chips.......
Just an idea :P :P
Regards
Neal
I can see a vital flaw in your suggestion (apart from the one that involves petrol being cheap). To be able to drive down to Portland I'd first have to buy a car. I think I'd rather walk down to the very nice fish and chip shop nearby and save on the petrol... and insurance... and car tax... and MoT... and... well, you get the picture ;)
Still working (when I get a chance) on the blocks. Prototypes should be done tomorrow.
Cheers
Pete,
Will these do for you?
[smg id=27454 type=preview align=center caption="DSCF1419"]
[smg id=27455 type=preview align=center caption="DSCF1425"]
Sorry I didn't have a more suitable wagon to show them off on.
Cheers
Dave, those look pretty good to me. With a suitable dusting of stone over the wagon planking and sides they'll really look the part. Was that with Milliput?
Quote from: Pete33 on July 24, 2015, 10:04:23 AM
Dave, those look pretty good to me. With a suitable dusting of stone over the wagon planking and sides they'll really look the part. Was that with Milliput?
Thanks, Pete
Yes, fine white Milliput. Painted with Vallejo Ivory followed by a thin wash of Yellow Ochre and finally a light white drybrush to pick up the edges etc. If you want them drop me a PM and I'd be happy to pop them in the post.
Cheers
Quote from: Bangor Lad on July 24, 2015, 12:29:09 PM
Yes, fine white Milliput. Painted with Vallejo Ivory followed by a thin wash of Yellow Ochre and finally a light white drybrush to pick up the edges etc. If you want them drop me a PM and I'd be happy to pop them in the post.
PM sent, thanks.
When it comes to producing stone dust to coat the wagons carrying these, would white mixed with a touch of yellow or light brown do the trick, do you think?
Quote from: Pete33 on July 24, 2015, 07:41:33 PM
Quote from: Bangor Lad on July 24, 2015, 12:29:09 PM
Yes, fine white Milliput. Painted with Vallejo Ivory followed by a thin wash of Yellow Ochre and finally a light white drybrush to pick up the edges etc. If you want them drop me a PM and I'd be happy to pop them in the post.
PM sent, thanks.
When it comes to producing stone dust to coat the wagons carrying these, would white mixed with a touch of yellow or light brown do the trick, do you think?
You've a couple of options. The shades you've suggested would work as a very thin wash. This will settle in the gaps between planks and around any iron work. The best way will be to use multiple layers, building up the density until you get something you're happy with. The alternative would be to use pastel chalks in pale beige shades. These chalks are cheap and last forever.
Hope this is of help.
Cheers
The completed Portland stone loads look pretty good on dedicated stone wagons, but the ropes look too thick. Leaving them off might be a better option (unless you're a trackside worker who faces the risk of being crushed by a loose load of stone).
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a565/NGauge33/Kits/DSCN2642_zpstigclgcz.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/NGauge33/media/Kits/DSCN2642_zpstigclgcz.jpg.html)
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a565/NGauge33/Kits/DSCN2641_zpsrwppd8te.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/NGauge33/media/Kits/DSCN2641_zpsrwppd8te.jpg.html)
Ropes or otherwise, thanks must go to Dave for some excellent Portland stone.
:thumbsup:
Quote from: Pete33 on September 01, 2015, 10:17:53 PM
The completed Portland stone loads look pretty good on dedicated stone wagons, but the ropes look too thick. Leaving them off might be a better option (unless you're a trackside worker who faces the risk of being crushed by a loose load of stone).
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a565/NGauge33/Kits/DSCN2642_zpstigclgcz.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/NGauge33/media/Kits/DSCN2642_zpstigclgcz.jpg.html)
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a565/NGauge33/Kits/DSCN2641_zpsrwppd8te.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/NGauge33/media/Kits/DSCN2641_zpsrwppd8te.jpg.html)
Ropes or otherwise, thanks must go to Dave for some excellent Portland stone.
:thumbsup:
Looking good, Pete and glad to have been of help.
What have you used for the ropes?
Cheers
Dave
Quote from: Bangor Lad on September 02, 2015, 02:44:51 PM
What have you used for the ropes?
Just bared and twisted wire, around four strands per rope, I think. Painted frame dirt, glued into position, snipped at the ends. The ends were given a dab of superglue to prevent them splaying, and then a dab of paint to hide the metal.
For the rope I'd suggest cotton or fine thread; the most common northbound freight on the S&D was clay from the Purbecks, Portland stone was more likely to be sent via GWR if bound for midlands and north, SR for eastwards, any stone over the S&D would be Purbeck, or possibly Mendip.
Interesting duty in later years, was for a black 5 leaving Bath around 1 or 2 am with Mails for Bournemouth, same loco would then return to Bath on the up Pines, back on the down Pines, then on freight, some from Branksome but mostly clay from Poole, (dep around 7 or 8 pm) which had been tripped there earlier in the day from Norden and Furzebrook, duration of the duty was around 23 hours IIRC. Not sure if this would have been the same duty in earlier days - pre black 5s.
Quote from: Dorsetmike on September 02, 2015, 03:10:21 PM
For the rope I'd suggest cotton or fine thread; the most common northbound freight on the S&D was clay from the Purbecks, Portland stone was more likely to be sent via GWR if bound for midlands and north, SR for eastwards, any stone over the S&D would be Purbeck, or possibly Mendip.
The 'rope' is actually holding the load in place. I didn't have the heart to glue them to the nice job of painting I'd done on the wagon floors. Maybe one day in the future I will, once I've been able to work out whether I'm going to run wagons back empty or just pretend they're empty.
This is a Portland stone load for Bournemouth West via the SR, so it won't touch the S&D metals. A Purbeck stone load would be interesting though. Any idea of wagons used and the state of the load itself; intact or broken up?
I would have thought that open wagons would have been used for Purbeck clay tranport with the loads protected by tarpaulins.
I don't know if Purbeck Stone itself (as opposed to clay) would have ever been transported by rail. This decorative stone (a shelly limestone) has been much sought after for at least a thousand years and traditionally has been transported by sea, and then by lorry in the 20th Century. I am not aware of any railhead to the quarries but perhaps someone can enlighten us further.
Hi there Pete, when I have to rope down items/loads/tarps on wagons, I strip a length on plain multicore wire, separate the strands, paint them a rope sort of colour and use that, it is very fine but strong enough to pull tight when tying or glueing in place and strong enough to last, hopefully -
[smg id=28648]
Best wishes
Simon
So far I've been able to find out that Purbeck stone was taken by the Swanage railway branch, but not yet found where it went from there; transporting it by sea ended around 1920. There was at one time a tramway for horse drawn stone wagons to the pier, I've also seen a photo of a horse drawn cartload of stone standing in the sea, water up to the horses belly stone being transferred to a barge and from there to a sailing craft.
Quote from: Pete33 on September 02, 2015, 02:54:10 PM
Quote from: Bangor Lad on September 02, 2015, 02:44:51 PM
What have you used for the ropes?
Just bared and twisted wire, around four strands per rope, I think. Painted frame dirt, glued into position, snipped at the ends. The ends were given a dab of superglue to prevent them splaying, and then a dab of paint to hide the metal.
I think Simon's got it about right. The finer the wire you find the better it will look. You need to twist it quite a bit to get the effect but it's surprising how robust it is.
Dave
Quote from: bridgiesimon on September 02, 2015, 05:10:43 PM
...I strip a length of plain multicore wire, separate the strands, paint them a rope sort of colour...
That does look good, Simon, and very realistic.
Quote from: Bangor Lad on September 02, 2015, 06:52:40 PM
I think Simon's got it about right. The finer the wire you find the better it will look...
I think you're right. Mine is also twisted a lot, but it doesn't really show up in the photo. Either way, it seems I'm going to have to redo the ropes.