So the time has come for me to stop experimenting on the table top with ovals and inglenooks on corrugated cardboard (!) and move up a notch :)
First Q ) Do you know of any of the DIY chains that supply single boards of insulation and will cut to size for me ? B&Q, Wickes etc. ?? eg. 6 or 8 ft by 30inch.
My local diy will cut plywood and timber for me *, but only supplies insulation boards to builders in multipacks :'(
* I may eventually go the 'plywood with timber frame' route (when I achieve full control over what will become the railway cave :) ), but the foam sounds good and light weight for now.
Thanks for reading/suggestions,
meanwhile I'll continue my "Foam" searching the forum > > >
Wickes and some B&Q's certainly will supply single sheets of insulation. No idea if they will cut it as I have never asked them to.
Celotex etc is easily cut with a carving knife and straight edge. I used it to insulate my tropical fish house. I suggest you skulk around a new housing site and ask for some offcuts. It's used extensively nowadays, and for the price of a couple of pints you could walk away with more offcuts than you could ever use.
What are you going to use to glue this material, Malcolm?
Applied as a layer, say to ply, and using say PVA to fix the two .......... The foam won't let air through, so away from the edges the glue can't cure.
Uhu Por is the stuff to use on a spot basis but is expensive and very difficult to use over a larger area.
Very interested to hear what your research has revealed on the subject
Kind regards
Adrian
My local Wickes still stocks some 6mm insulation foam in sheets 1.2mtrs by half metre [40x20 inches]
is that any good? You can stick 2 sheets together using no nails.
Ray
Quote from: trkilliman on July 05, 2015, 05:13:43 PM
Celotex etc is easily cut with a carving knife
skulk
Ah thank you, interesting, I had thought that with a layer of fibreglass in the sandwich that it would not be easy, good, so I could do a rough split in a car park and trim it correctly when I get it home.
(all so as I can get it in my car rather than call on a mate with his trailer ! )
I do like a good skulking as well :)
Quote from: Adrian on July 05, 2015, 05:19:14 PM
What are you going to use to glue this material, Malcolm?
,
what your research has revealed on the subject
early days on research,, lot of historical stuff on RMweb, but my head hurts :) , they I think were using no-more-nails or something like that, not to glue a top on, to glue plywood round the edges for protecton during transport not for structure. There was also a lot about peeling off the foil, not just on one surface ( else it would warp) but on both or neither. Not sure if they ever reached a consensus on which was best all or none. My 1 remaining brain cell couldnt take any more.
So I claim sanctuary here LOL!
Some of all that was going to be my next few questions after I sorted my first one :)
Quote from: REGP on July 05, 2015, 05:22:48 PM
My local Wickes still stocks some 6mm insulation foam in sheets 1.2mtrs by half metre [40x20 inches]
is that any good? You can stick 2 sheets together using no nails.
Ah, no nails, that was it ! Good man.
stick the 2 on their edges ? That would need a supporting top ( or bottom) then ?? prob. ? Would probably be good enough for a Gumstump, but maybe not for developing my ovals.
Thanks everyone,
very helpful.
Hello Good Evening I hope you do not mind me joining In on this subject, We had our loft converted properly at the end of last year and we used celotex board you must leave a gap between the Celotex and your roof Felt as you need the air to circulate round the building ours was 50mm thick and it came flush with the forward edge of the Loft truss, they then covered it with a foil sheet so to speak allover the trusses and then plasterboarded over that and the remarkable thing was no heating required in winter and in the last week the temp was really good in the loft around 20c
When we are at home we leave the loft hatch open as i spend a lot of time up there during the week days doing my loft layout It was the Building control inspector who gave us the nod on how it should be done to meet the requirements.
Babs
Quote from: Babz on July 05, 2015, 08:32:05 PM
Hello Good Evening I hope you do not mind me joining In on this subject,
,
doing my loft layout It was the Building control inspector who gave us the nod on how it should be done to meet the requirements.
And good evening to you too Babs welcome aboard :)
A sort of similar tale to tell this end -
I am kicking myself for not cottoning on earlier, my daughter, with help from her friends 90% demolished a house and then rebuilt it to modern mortgageable standard should she ever need, in the future, to mortgage it; including in that, whilst they were about it, added a quite large two story extension with masses of Celotex involved, as you describe !!!
Argh I am a numpty ! I think all the offcuts are long gone :(
But the other similarity is the help they got from the building inspector, quite the opposite of the usual TV portrayal of the jobsworth. He suggested how and what they could do themselves and what certifications would ( in that eventuality) be needed by mortgage companies, and what certifications/standards were required by the BI.
All very satisfactory all round, so all I need to do now is tell her friends what size off-cuts, from future jobs, I will need for my humble little playthings :)
Assuming that she dont, with bit between her teeth, start on our house next, LOL!
Malcolm,
for a join I would try Devcon 5 minute epoxy. It has seldom let me down - I'd also get a couple of pencils and sharpen both ends and use them as dowels (use ordinary dowels if you are feeling flush!) - put boards down next to each other, hold dowels in the gap, then close the gap - that would quite probably work out!
Ideally bandage the join, but in this case that's not going to help as you need a flat surface - well at least on the top I guess.... :hmmm:
This is roughly how foam core wings are secured on RC planes, or at least it was if not now. (probably got something ten times more expensive by now) :) ;)
Quote from: Ancient Hermit on July 05, 2015, 09:33:55 PMget a couple of pencils and sharpen both ends and use them as dowels (use ordinary dowels if you are feeling flush!)
Pencils what a good idea! and we can leave the flush in the you know where :)
So all I (we) would need is a flat level surface to do the assembly of smaller offcuts, or Wickes small panels, and put a 2" (or thereabouts ) surround of plywood, thus adding vertical rigidity as a bonus.
Ah that reminds me ,, Adrian > in my researches someone suggested that the surrounding plywood walls could be made an inch or two higher than the contained foam, thus acting as a barrier to the well known 'flying loco' syndrome :)
and I suppose some suitably formed curves would give legs at the corners ?
Hmmm, thinking aloud - probably easier to incorporate more, vertical this time
dowels stout pencils :)
Derruh, did someone say "Devcon 5 minute" warning, eeek to the shelters everyone > > > :laugh3:
I've used 1200x450 (4'x18") 50mm Celotex sheets from Wickes for my layout 9'6" x 2'6", it cuts very easily with a carving or bread knife, it makes very little mess (unlike the expanded polystyrene).
Ive used double sided carpet tape in some places, Nonails in others.
Quote from: Dorsetmike on July 05, 2015, 10:04:35 PM
I've used 1200x450 (4'x18") 50mm Celotex sheets from Wickes for my layout 9'6" x 2'6", it cuts very easily with a carving or bread knife, it makes very little mess (unlike the expanded polystyrene).
Ive used double sided carpet tape in some places, Nonails in others.
thanks Mike, this all begins to look more 'n more doable :)
Quote from: Ancient Hermit on July 05, 2015, 09:33:55 PM
Malcolm,
for a join I would try Devcon 5 minute epoxy. It has seldom let me down - I'd also get a couple of pencils and sharpen both ends and use them as dowels (use ordinary dowels if you are feeling flush!) - put boards down next to each other, hold dowels in the gap, then close the gap - that would quite probably work out!
Ideally bandage the join, but in this case that's not going to help as you need a flat surface - well at least on the top I guess.... :hmmm:
This is roughly how foam core wings are secured on RC planes, or at least it was if not now. (probably got something ten times more expensive by now) :) ;)
I look forward to reading about a remote controlled airborne flying layout constructed from glued together bits of Celotex, please record this or upload to YouTube, and please give Newport Nobby a nod as this sounds right over his street! :smiley-laughing:
Rereading the thread I see a suggestion for "bandaging" the join, I laid cork flooring tiles over mine again fixed with double sided tape that gave me a good flat surface and also better for holding track pins.
[smg id=24929]
For edging I used lengths of timber cladding, a little thicker than ply, plus doesn't need cutting to height, screwed to the base frame and Nonails to the Celotex
[smg id=24973]
The Celotex can also be used for gradients, I was going to use the Woodland Scenics gradient sets but the local shop didn't have them in stock and being an impatient B I decided to make my own.
Good looking layouts Just to endorse everything said here I had a piece left over after an extension and it cuts easily with a bread knife and the foil layers can easily be stripped off
I have just bought 10 off sheets of the 450 by 1200 50mm celotex from Wicks at a price of £4.19 each for 5 which oddly is a better price per sq m than buying the larger sheet 2400 by 1200
Also it can be used to make rock faces
You can get Recticel sheets from Jewsons.
I got a 25mm thick sheet 2400x1200, it's foil covered on both sides and the foil can be easily peeled off if required.
Allan
Quote from: Bikeracer on July 06, 2015, 03:44:10 PM
You can get Recticel sheets from Jewsons.
I got a 25mm thick sheet 2400x1200, it's foil covered on both sides and the foil can be easily peeled off if required.
Allan
Thanks Allan, I have a Jewsons not far away from me, so a visit is indicated cos I couldnt figure out their web site, no prices that I could see, I began to think they were trade only :(
Did you notice if they had any cut to size facilities for customers ?
Quote from: MalcolmAL on July 06, 2015, 10:24:54 PM
Did you notice if they had any cut to size facilities for customers ?
Last time I contacted Jewsons I asked that very question - "Yes!" she said...
'Oh good!', thought I...
"We will lend you a saw!", said she...
I still went there and got what I wanted though.
Quote from: Zogbert Splod on July 07, 2015, 12:51:48 AM
Quote from: MalcolmAL on July 06, 2015, 10:24:54 PM
Did you notice if they had any cut to size facilities for customers ?
'Oh good!', thought I...
"We will lend you a saw!", said she...
:laughabovepost: :thumbsup:
:thankyousign:
Best to take your own saw and cut it.
I got them to cut mine for me to get it into the car,needed it cut down so I could get a 3 foot width into the car.
I asked the chap to cut it at 3 feet wide which he did........only problem was he cut it three feet from one end.He wasn't very happy when he had to cut another sheet down the length. :no:
Allan
Quote from: Bikeracer on July 07, 2015, 08:48:11 AM
Best to take your own saw and cut it.
,
I got them to cut mine for me to get it into the car,needed it cut down so I could get a 3 foot width into the car.
Yes car was my reason for wondering if the various had cutting options, I think a cruise round and see which/who offer the best facilities is indicated !
Thanks all for your ideas,
at the mo I am thinking I might shelve the big 8ft one till later and am now playing with SCARM to see if I can squeeze a Gumstump lookalike into one of the Wickes 1200x450 packs :)
Link (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=6356.msg71884#msg71884) to my posts on using Spaceboard and Jablite. Have been working with it for over four years
My layout is 900 x 3000 (six Spaceboards joined together) and the Spaceboard has not bowed or warped (in the four years) and I have built two OO layouts and my current N layout on the same base foam board (scraping off the previous scenery and covering it with cork to give a more even surface). I have also added beach and sea using Magic Water. I now join Spaceboards/Jablite together using Copydex and cocktail sticks to align the boards.
For scenery I use 25mm Jablite as easier to work with. You can use u shaped fence nails to secure wiring.
Foam is not for everyone but it works for me as it is light.
Quote from: Pengi on July 08, 2015, 09:18:45 AM
Link (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=6356.msg71884#msg71884) to my posts on using Spaceboard and Jablite.
Thanks.
I'd not heard of Spaceboard before,
googled and found SpaceboardECO which I guess is the same ? If so and your local shop still has any and you plan to expand your layout best get some bought in to stock !! cos their site says being discontinued in the UK :(
(which prob explains why I could not find any here :( )
and it may be the same (uk or eu name for ) as what used to be Pink? Knaufboard which I cant find any more either.
It is Knaufboard and you may still be able to get it from B & Q. It is not advertised on their web-site though
Quote from: Pengi on July 08, 2015, 09:18:45 AM
and Jablite.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=6356.msg71884#msg71884)
Jablite is economical but yes it would ( as in your linked thread ) make a dreadful mess unless cut with a hot wire or hot knife gizmo ! because it appears to be expanded polystyrene ?
the others, well Celotex anyway, are extruded polystyrene and dont give too much mess
/research :)
have not tracked down good ref on Recticel but I think it is an extruded Celotex type ??
Quote from: MalcolmAL on July 09, 2015, 12:04:41 AM
...Jablite is economical but yes it would ( as in your linked thread ) make a dreadful mess unless cut with a hot wire or hot knife gizmo ! because it appears to be expanded polystyrene?...
It is indeed expanded polystyrene. However, it's not quite as messy as the static charged stuff made up of those white beads. It's not too bad to clear up either. The vacuums cleaner deals with it easily.
I got it coz the only local place had an eight pack of that, or, 8' X 4' sheets of some other board in the 4" thickness.
It was cheap so I decided to give it a try.
It cuts quite well with a VERY sharp knife so long as you actually cut it rather than just try to push the knife through it.
I'm not gonna try to say it's the best, but it does work.
Regards, Allan.....
Quote from: Zogbert Splod on July 09, 2015, 12:31:06 AM
It is indeed expanded polystyrene. However, it's not quite as messy as the static charged stuff made up of those white beads
,
It cuts quite well with a VERY sharp knife
Thanks Allan, all good to know, I was giving it a mis coz of the mess I used to get in when cutting the little white beady expanded stuff in days of yore to go under my tropical fish tanks !
It may even be a little lighter than the extruded type with fibreglass.
> more researchings ;)
Quote from: MalcolmAL on July 09, 2015, 05:45:05 PM
It may even be a little lighter than the extruded type with fibreglass.
> more researchings ;)
If weight matters to you, it is super light.....
Quote from: Zogbert Splod on July 09, 2015, 05:57:35 PM
If weight matters to you, it is super light.....
Yes, some will be in modular form -
work on / play with in domestic quarters table top etc. and move to/from the railway cave :)
Quote from: Pengi on July 08, 2015, 03:36:23 PM
It is Knaufboard and you may still be able to get it from B & Q. It is not advertised on their web-site though
Extruded polystyrene is available in France at Leroy Merlin, I shall be buying when I go next week.
30mm thick 1.25 x 0.6 m sheets 3.83€ each about £2.80 each
20mm thick 1.25 x 0.6 m sheets 2.50€ each about £1.80 each