A recent thread about loco top speeds started to go off (legitimately) in the direction of discussions about electronic methods of DC speed control.
Looking around, it strikes me that the forum doesn't currently have a sub-forum which would be the obvious place to start such discussions. There's the DCC section which has its hands full just with discussions about DCC, a complicated subject. There's the 'Signalling' section which is as much about the physical aspects of signals as the electrical / electronic side, and only deals with signalling, and there's the 'DC wiring' section which, judging by its name, deals with the very specific area of DC layout wiring and by inference, doesn't really include DC power control methods.
Would it be possible to have a wide-category 'Model Railway Electronics' subforum for discussion of things like sound generators, DC power controllers of various types, 'train within a section' detection / 'train in a specific place' detection, train speed detection, signal / points interlocking, lighting control in trains, lighting control on layouts, computer control of layouts with conventional electronic circuits both analogue and digital, conventional computers, Arduino, Raspberry Pi , and so on?
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?board=157.0 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?board=157.0)
:thumbsup:
Paul
I can't see personally that another Electronics section would be viable as it covers such a wide spectrum of different applications, all of which are already served by the existing sections - electronic train control in DC or DCC sections, layout lighting in Scenery, etc. Just another duplication exercise and yet another sub-forum in an already long list.
While we're on the subject of forum sections this is in the wrong one so I'm moving it to Forum Ideas & Problems :D
Paul
Sorry, I didn't even know this subforum existed. Thanks for redirecting the thread.
As a relative newcomer to the forum my perception is that some of the names of forum sections, with hindsight, define their subject range slightly too narrowly.
For example, if 'DC Wiring' was just 'DC' (To complement the 'DCC' forum) then it would be obvious that that would be a reasonable place to discuss DC control matters. But because it is called 'DC Wiring' it suggests that wiring is the only DC matter which may be discussed there, with no obvious place then to discuss DC controllers.
'Electronics' under scenery is also really not the obvious place to find the only subforum with 'electronics' in its name (I understand, of course, that the intention was to discuss electronics specifically relating to scenery, but then by that logic every other sub-forum subject needs a sub-sub 'electronics' forum devoted to it as well).
I think electronics is a big enough, important enough sphere to have its own major forum area where electronics relating to every aspect of railway modelling could be discussed and it would have been better treated that way originally, but I accept that to try to make it so now would cause major upheaval.
Who'dav thort it, there was even the beginnings of a good thread by SillyMoo about coreless motors in there, in Scenery !, whod'av thunk it,
interesting stuff about cooling and H&M etc, I allmost began to understand,,
but no worries,
it soon went off topic into track cleaning
:(
Quote from: siriushardware on June 30, 2015, 02:16:38 AM
Sorry, I didn't even know this subforum existed. Thanks for redirecting the thread.
As a relative newcomer to the forum my perception is that some of the names of forum sections, with hindsight, define their subject range slightly too narrowly.
For example, if 'DC Wiring' was just 'DC' (To complement the 'DCC' forum) then it would be obvious that that would be a reasonable place to discuss DC control matters. But because it is called 'DC Wiring' it suggests that wiring is the only DC matter which may be discussed there, with no obvious place then to discuss DC controllers.
'Electronics' under scenery is also really not the obvious place to find the only subforum with 'electronics' in its name (I understand, of course, that the intention was to discuss electronics specifically relating to scenery, but then by that logic every other sub-forum subject needs a sub-sub 'electronics' forum devoted to it as well).
I think electronics is a big enough, important enough sphere to have its own major forum area where electronics relating to every aspect of railway modelling could be discussed and it would have been better treated that way originally, but I accept that to try to make it so now would cause major upheaval.
I agree with you totally.
:beers:
My view is that we have created many sub-boards in good faith believing that they would get used. Sadly, this has not always proved to be the case - one example being the sub-board on 'Water' which I foolishly suggested :-[
I think we already have too many boards and sub-boards. 46 main boards one of which has over 26 sub-boards. Using a mobile device it takes ages to scroll down the main boards to reach the one that I want to look at.
As siriushardware says, the subject range on some boards are too narrow so a topic won't fit. It is also the case that with so many sub-boards, a topic can sometimes fit into more than one of them :(
There is no easy answer to this :( - apart from redesigning the layout of the forum from scratch, and moving the posts into their new sections - and that is a mass of work
Quote from: Pengi on July 01, 2015, 09:13:16 PM
There is no easy answer to this :( - apart from redesigning the layout of the forum from scratch, and moving the posts into their new sections - and that is a mass of work
Suggestions welcome! :D
I think an electronics board would be great, and I also think that it should be time to cull some of the other boards, where they can just become topics. I've become used to the them all, but I know that some folk have been a little daunted when they've signed up!!!
I like the idea of a new main heading 'Electrical / Electronics' with just two sub categories, 'DCC', which clearly is complex enough to need its own category, and 'DC Wiring' renamed 'DC' to encompass all other non-DCC electrical / electronics related posts and threads.
Just about anything electrical / electronics related could then be legitimately discussed in either DCC (if DCC related) or DC (if not).
The main problem then is the awkward 'scenery / electronics' forum which would ideally need to be sorted through (magically, by pixies) with the posts and threads moved to either 'DCC' or 'DC', and then the scenery / electronics subforum closed down.
For electrical / electronics related posts and threads which were started in other mildly inappropriate places because there was previously no more obviously correct place to start them, just declare an amnesty, leave them where they are and allow people to continue to add to them for as long as they remain inclined to do so. People will still be able to find them by searching, but hopefully all new posts will tend to kick off in the right places.
Quote from: Pengi on July 01, 2015, 09:13:16 PM
My view is that we have created many sub-boards in good faith believing that they would get used. Sadly, this has not always proved to be the case - one example being the sub-board on 'Water' which I foolishly suggested :-[
Wasn't the water board privatised years ago...?
Okay, okay. I'm leaving ;)
Quote from: siriushardware on July 01, 2015, 11:44:55 PM
I like the idea of a new main heading 'Electrical / Electronics' with just two sub categories, 'DCC', which clearly is complex enough to need its own category, and 'DC Wiring' renamed 'DC' to encompass all other non-DCC electrical / electronics related posts and threads.
Three sub-categories might be better - DCC, DC and Other. There are many potential posts that are not specific to either DCC or DC, relating to signalling, train detection, panels, accessories, point control, lighting, power supplies, general wiring, LEDs, etc, etc, etc.
There are a lot of valid points here, especially Pengi's regarding the proliferation of boards and sub-boards. I suppose this is vaguely what I was groping towards when I started a thread recently suggesting an "Advice for Beginners" board. In that case I wasn't advocating starting new topics here, just a sort of forum sat-nav to direct people to existing threads.
I know! You could whittle it down to just 3 boards - "Toy trains", "Real trains", "Not trains"! Job done! :D
Chris
Quote from: martink on July 02, 2015, 03:21:08 PM
Three sub-categories might be better - DCC, DC and Other. There are many potential posts that are not specific to either DCC or DC, relating to signalling, train detection, panels, accessories, point control, lighting, power supplies, general wiring, LEDs, etc, etc, etc.
Merely to add my thoughts on this subject.
The suggestion given here as "Other" as an alternative would be of great use to simpletons like myself who, right at this moment in time, have neither DC nor DCC running!
I will need some guidance at a later date that has nothing to do with either DC or DCC!
Regards, Peter.
Quote from: petercharlesfagg on July 02, 2015, 07:27:23 PM
Quote from: martink on July 02, 2015, 03:21:08 PM
Three sub-categories might be better - DCC, DC and Other. There are many potential posts that are not specific to either DCC or DC, relating to signalling, train detection, panels, accessories, point control, lighting, power supplies, general wiring, LEDs, etc, etc, etc.
Merely to add my thoughts on this subject.
The suggestion given here as "Other" as an alternative would be of great use to simpletons like myself who, right at this moment in time, have neither DC nor DCC running!
I will need some guidance at a later date that has nothing to do with either DC or DCC!
Regards, Peter.
Good post Peter - :thankyousign:
I commented at the start of the electronics section that it was buried within scenics -what relevance did that hold (and buried within another sub-forum) but I thought I was overruled at the time??? Why would I look in scenics for electrickery.
For me personally it's either DC or not DCC. So if it's DCC related bung it in there, if not then it's still a DC related subject. When you start thinking it's related to dozens of other subjects it breaks down: "signals" + "DC" = DC section compared to "DCC turntable project" is "DCC" not "scenics" > "electronics". Or signals on it's own right > DC or DCC???
K.I.S.S., hopefully that makes it easier for folk to find info -AND makes it easier to manage which I imagine is a big ask on our admins!
If it were me I'd have:
Electrical and electronics:
........DC and related subjects
........DCC and related subjects
If you have a 240v question it should fit for either of the above and if the subject name is correct, easily searchable on the forum or google.
Apologies -I don't want to tick anyone off but trying to suggest something positive and help admins. RMWeb has some confusing sections also so it's not just this forum :thumbsup:
Cheers,
Rich
Quote from: petercharlesfagg on July 02, 2015, 07:27:23 PM
Merely to add my thoughts on this subject.
The suggestion given here as "Other" as an alternative would be of great use to simpletons like myself who, right at this moment in time, have neither DC nor DCC running!
I will need some guidance at a later date that has nothing to do with either DC or DCC!
Regards, Peter.
Hello Peter, I'm curious to know what the non-DC, non DCC, but electrical/electronics related subject might be.
Mains wiring perhaps? Should we make that a third distinct category?
Quote from: siriushardware on July 07, 2015, 06:04:31 PM
Hello Peter, I'm curious to know what the non-DC, non DCC, but electrical/electronics related subject might be.
Mains wiring perhaps? Should we make that a third distinct category?
At the time of writing the post I had nothing running on my layout, neither DC nor DCC!
The subject in my mind was and is LED's which run on AC, DC and, as I understand things, on DCC!
Mains electricity would come under the same category, or, "Other"?
Regards, Peter.
Quote from: petercharlesfagg on July 07, 2015, 06:48:10 PM
At the time of writing the post I had nothing running on my layout, neither DC nor DCC!
The subject in my mind was and is LED's which run on AC, DC and, as I understand things, on DCC!
Mains electricity would come under the same category, or, "Other"?
Regards, Peter.
Fundamentally, an LED (just the device itself) is a DC device. The clue is in the name, really - Light Emitting Diode.
For most purposes a diode (and therefore an LED, a specialised type of diode) can be thought of as an electrical one-way valve - you can pass current through it one way but not the other. It's this very property which allows diodes to be used in rectifiers, which convert AC to DC (more correctly, they convert AC to pulsed DC - a capacitor is then used to smooth out the pulses to produce reasonably smooth DC).
However, to make things a little bit more complicated, an LED (with a suitable series resistor) will run perfectly well on AC - or it will seem to. In reality, it will only be on 50 percent of the time.
So most LEDs that will be used on layouts, either as indicators or for lighting, will be controlled by enabling or disabling the DC current flow through them. You can do this either with a physical switch, or with an electronic switch such as the 'accessory' control output which might be found integrated into many DCC decoders. At the LED end of things, a DCC controlled LED still operates on DC.
And then there's mains LED lighting, which appears to run happily on mains AC, but in fact usually incorporates a miniature AC to DC power converter circuit within the bulb itself - so even they, although they appear to (and do) run on AC, are actually DC devices.
I admit that AC powered LED lighting (along with all other discussions about mains wiring) would not fit comfortably into either 'DCC' or 'DC', so I'm coming around to your way of thinking, that there would need to be an 'Other electrical / electronics' category alongside 'DCC' and 'DC'.
Quote from: siriushardware on July 07, 2015, 07:28:14 PM
Quote from: petercharlesfagg on July 07, 2015, 06:48:10 PM
At the time of writing the post I had nothing running on my layout, neither DC nor DCC!
The subject in my mind was and is LED's which run on AC, DC and, as I understand things, on DCC!
Mains electricity would come under the same category, or, "Other"?
Regards, Peter.
Fundamentally, an LED (just the device itself) is a DC device. The clue is in the name, really - Light Emitting Diode.
For most purposes a diode (and therefore an LED, a specialised type of diode) can be thought of as an electrical one-way valve - you can pass current through it one way but not the other. It's this very property which allows diodes to be used in rectifiers, which convert AC to DC (more correctly, they convert AC to pulsed DC - a capacitor is then used to smooth out the pulses to produce reasonably smooth DC).
However, to make things a little bit more complicated, an LED (with a suitable series resistor) will run perfectly well on AC - or it will seem to. In reality, it will only be on 50 percent of the time.
So most LEDs that will be used on layouts, either as indicators or for lighting, will be controlled by enabling or disabling the DC current flow through them. You can do this either with a physical switch, or with an electronic switch such as the 'accessory' control output which might be found integrated into many DCC decoders. At the LED end of things, a DCC controlled LED still operates on DC.
And then there's mains LED lighting, which appears to run happily on mains AC, but in fact usually incorporates a miniature AC to DC power converter circuit within the bulb itself - so even they, although they appear to (and do) run on AC, are actually DC devices.
I admit that AC powered LED lighting (along with all other discussions about mains wiring) would not fit comfortably into either 'DCC' or 'DC', so I'm coming around to your way of thinking, that there would need to be an 'Other electrical / electronics' category alongside 'DCC' and 'DC'.
I think you might just have fused Peter's brain!!
:hmmm: :beers: