Hi all,
I've been looking at figuring out what other locos I might like, and have come to realise that the Class 22 I have is nice in my view as it is geared in such a way that it has good low speed, and can take the smaller curves easily on the modest layout I shall be able to build. It runs nicely on my test loops (249mm & 282mm)
I'm not sure about whether going much larger is going to prove to be wise as I have noted how close buffers can get on the inner of those two loops and that is with Collett coaches, they are longer than the Class 22. So it looks like shorter is better and diesel is better as the steamer (57xx) is clearly the less happy of the two locos.
Apart from more 22s (not a bad thing) I'm not sure how to find out about what length I can run on those radii. I suspect a Class 37 might not be that happy as it's a bit like two 0-6-0s chasing each other. I like the look of Class 52, but again I can't know if it could run on those loops, it looks pretty long. I read that Class 66 can be a problem staying on the rails sometimes, and since I'm going to be all Kato track and #4 points to boot, then I need to know about and take note of any that tend to have issues like that. Sorry, I know I'm a picky devil with the appearances of these things! ;)
I suspect a warship might be ok, but looks wise it's a bit of a Marmite thing in my view. I'm not drawn to Hymek as such, but what types might be worth researching further? What is the shortest British diesel? Class 8 I must suppose? Unless you know different, and I'd really like to hear some suggestions if you have them please. :hmmm:
Hi Ian,
To be honest, I have successfully run diesels with 4, 6 and 8 axles round 9" radius Peco track although the 8 axle ones looked a bit silly ::) You'd be OK with (sticking with WR stuff) Hymeks, Warships, Westerns and the class 14. Class 37's and 47's would be OK but how about some of the far flung class 24 and 25 (lovely models from Farish). There's also a new class 33 in the pipeline although the old one is a good runner but basic. Others to consider are the class 20, 26, 27 and even the 55.
The 03 and 04 shunters are smaller than the 08.
As Arfur Daley would say
'the world is your lobster' :laugh3:
The Class 22 'Baby Warships' were just 46'8.5" in length. If not quite the shortest BR mainline diesels, they're the smallest ones outside the Type 1 category.
All of the other Type 2 diesels (the same category as the Class 22 diesels) are a tiny bit bigger. For example:
Class 21 51'6"
Class 23 52'6"
Class 24 50'6"
Class 31 56'9"
By the time you scale these down to N gauge the differences are pretty trivial though, and if your Class 22 behaves itself through the tight curves on your layout, the Bo-Bo Type 2s should too. That would include Dapol's Class 26 and 27; the Farish Class 24 and 25; and the upcoming DJM Class 23.
The Dapol 'Hymek' is a nice model, but I do feel it's a generation behind the current crop in terms of detail. That said, the real thing is rather compact and startlingly tidy compared to most other diesels, so the lack of 'greebling' may well be real. When I got my 'Hymek' it performed poorly, but after replacing a couple of the gears it has settled down to be one of my most reliable performers.
The Farish 'Warship' is an excellent model. Your Marmite comment is not far off the mark. In trying to scale down the very imposing DB V200 diesel to the British loading gauge it was widely accepted that something was lost in terms of looks and presence. Nonetheless, after installing the bufferbeam details and adding a bit of weathering the model really looks the piece. I've got two of them, and they're both very reliable and very quiet (indeed, they're my benchmark for quiet running!).
Cheers, NeMo
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/thumb_14231.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=14231)
I have a mix of Kato track (first and second radius) and use Peco setrack short radius points plus a short crossover due to the space available. I was going to try to use Kato's number 4 points but was too nervous to take the plunge reading all the info on them on the net.
Two of my best class of locomotives (I converted both to DCC) are the Farish China split chassis class 25 and class 33. I have a couple of Farish DCC ready class 24's also. Both run well though one is an awful lot quieter than the other.
...These 4 models are probably the best slow runners I have. The class 25 and 24's look good hauling mk1 coaches and short freights. The class 33 is Dutch livery and looks good with a short rake of ballast wagons. I'd like another Farish china class 33, but in blue this time and sadly all I've ever found so far are the old Poole era ones in that colour. I have class 47's and 37's which run OK, but they're nowhere near as good slow runners. I have a DCC ready class 20 which runs very well, but like most of the other ones with lights they're temperamental if they do work at all after time.
Hope that helps a little.
Quote from: NeMo on June 26, 2015, 09:50:24 PM
The Class 22 'Baby Warships' were just 46'8.5" in length. If not quite the shortest BR mainline diesels, they're the smallest ones outside the Type 1 category.
All of the other Type 2 diesels (the same category as the Class 22 diesels) are a tiny bit bigger. For example:
Class 21 51'6"
Class 23 52'6"
Class 24 50'6"
Class 31 56'9"
By the time you scale these down to N gauge the differences are pretty trivial though, and if your Class 22 behaves itself through the tight curves on your layout, the Bo-Bo Type 2s should too. That would include Dapol's Class 26 and 27; the Farish Class 24 and 25; and the upcoming DJM Class 23.
The Dapol 'Hymek' is a nice model, but I do feel it's a generation behind the current crop in terms of detail. That said, the real thing is rather compact and startlingly tidy compared to most other diesels, so the lack of 'greebling' may well be real. When I got my 'Hymek' it performed poorly, but after replacing a couple of the gears it has settled down to be one of my most reliable performers.
The Farish 'Warship' is an excellent model. Your Marmite comment is not far off the mark. In trying to scale down the very imposing DB V200 diesel to the British loading gauge it was widely accepted that something was lost in terms of looks and presence. Nonetheless, after installing the bufferbeam details and adding a bit of weathering the model really looks the piece. I've got two of them, and they're both very reliable and very quiet (indeed, they're my benchmark for quiet running!).
Cheers, NeMo
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/thumb_14231.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=14231)
Don't forget the Class 20 which is about the same length as the 22.
I echo all that NeMo has written here. Although the Western was a massive loco (68 feet long) it only had tiny bogies (12 feet) and thus was quite capable of taking tighter curves than many main line locos and, although the Warship was something of a 'Marmite' loco it would be ideal for tight curves.
Of course both NeMo and I are Diesel Hydraulic fans so we both naturally fall into the Warship loving 'camp'!
Quote from: newportnobby on June 26, 2015, 09:39:00 PM
To be honest, I have successfully run diesels with 4, 6 and 8 axles round 9" radius Peco track although the 8 axle ones looked a bit silly ::) You'd be OK with (sticking with WR stuff) Hymeks, Warships, Westerns and the class 14. Class 37's and 47's would be OK but how about some of the far flung class 24 and 25 (lovely models from Farish). There's also a new class 33 in the pipeline although the old one is a good runner but basic. Others to consider are the class 20, 26, 27 and even the 55.
The 03 and 04 shunters are smaller than the 08.
All of my British locos run fine around my 243mm (Tomix finetrack) curves, though as Nobby says the 1Co-Co1 ones do look a bit ridiculous. Just be sure to lay your track very carefully and avoid curves right before Kato #4 points.
Quote from: railsquid on June 26, 2015, 11:43:10 PM
Quote from: newportnobby on June 26, 2015, 09:39:00 PM
To be honest, I have successfully run diesels with 4, 6 and 8 axles round 9" radius Peco track although the 8 axle ones looked a bit silly ::) You'd be OK with (sticking with WR stuff) Hymeks, Warships, Westerns and the class 14. Class 37's and 47's would be OK but how about some of the far flung class 24 and 25 (lovely models from Farish). There's also a new class 33 in the pipeline although the old one is a good runner but basic. Others to consider are the class 20, 26, 27 and even the 55.
The 03 and 04 shunters are smaller than the 08.
All of my British locos run fine around my 243mm (Tomix finetrack) curves, though as Nobby says the 1Co-Co1 ones do look a bit ridiculous. Just be sure to lay your track very carefully and avoid curves right before Kato #4 points.
I note the #4 thing, and also have read that it's a good idea to have a straight right before them, and to that end I am thinking that no matter how odd it may look, I would perhaps try to plan in the road crossing section as the straight each time, since that incorporates a re-railer. I'm hoping that could straighten things up further still and might be a good precaution. Does that sound like it might work/help? :hmmm:
You can tell I am nervous of the #4, but I did in fact order one first thing this morning as I felt it best to get the one with the reputation mastered first. ;)
Hope I have not made a big mistake with that, however I can do nought but wait and see. KB at Traintrax dropped me a note earlier to say it's been dispatched, so I will have a better idea about it all soon. :hmmm:
Quote from: Ancient Hermit on June 26, 2015, 11:53:28 PM
Quote from: railsquid on June 26, 2015, 11:43:10 PM
Quote from: newportnobby on June 26, 2015, 09:39:00 PM
To be honest, I have successfully run diesels with 4, 6 and 8 axles round 9" radius Peco track although the 8 axle ones looked a bit silly ::) You'd be OK with (sticking with WR stuff) Hymeks, Warships, Westerns and the class 14. Class 37's and 47's would be OK but how about some of the far flung class 24 and 25 (lovely models from Farish). There's also a new class 33 in the pipeline although the old one is a good runner but basic. Others to consider are the class 20, 26, 27 and even the 55.
The 03 and 04 shunters are smaller than the 08.
All of my British locos run fine around my 243mm (Tomix finetrack) curves, though as Nobby says the 1Co-Co1 ones do look a bit ridiculous. Just be sure to lay your track very carefully and avoid curves right before Kato #4 points.
I note the #4 thing, and also have read that it's a good idea to have a straight right before them, and to that end I am thinking that no matter how odd it may look, I would perhaps try to plan in the road crossing section as the straight each time, since that incorporates a re-railer. I'm hoping that could straighten things up further still and might be a good precaution. Does that sound like it might work/help? :hmmm:
You can tell I am nervous of the #4, but I did in fact order one first thing this morning as I felt it best to get the one with the reputation mastered first. ;)
Hope I have not made a big mistake with that, however I can do nought but wait and see. KB at Traintrax dropped me a note earlier to say it's been dispatched, so I will have a better idea about it all soon. :hmmm:
If you've got a number 4 point to try yourself post up on the results please because there's too much on the net about derailments and modding point blades for me. I imagine they work OK for allot of folk, but for me the balance it still tipped just a little too much towards being troublesome without modding. Also I tried to contact a few suppliers asking whether they were live frog or not (the pics of them all look like plastic vees compared to the number 6 points I have -yet Kato talk about power switching) but I never got any response so I never ordered -I admit I should have asked on forums at the time.
Personally, I always use Peco Streamline Electrofrog; they're not perfect (what in life is?) but apart from the odd electrical problem where the blades don't make contact (probably my fault in that they worked well BEFORE I ballasted!! :'() I can state with all honesty that they have never let me down over such as derailments.
When a train did leave the track at a point the fault has always been mine, usually due to excessive speed when PUSHING (as in shunting) a long train of empty wagons over Setrack points :dunce: which I used to use in the fiddle yard, but now have their medium radius ones there instead. The slight increase in length is not too noticeable, the huge decrease in derailments is very much welcomed.
P/S I can't comment on other makes as I have never used them except Hornby (Triang etc.) when working in OO many years ago.
Quote from: Ancient Hermit on June 26, 2015, 11:53:28 PM
You can tell I am nervous of the #4, but I did in fact order one first thing this morning as I felt it best to get the one with the reputation mastered first. ;)
Both the #4 and #6 Kato points are generally excellent. Reliable, easily lifted and reused if needed, and when you factor in the motor and switch, good value. The issue with the #4 is that the moving parts (the blades) don't sit as neatly inside the fixed rail as they should. So for some locomotives, there's a problem with their wheels lifting up as they pass over the blades, causing derailments.
There is a fix documented elsewhere on the internet. Basically you slide out the fixed rails, file a notch inside them, and thereby allow the blades to tuck inside the fixed rails properly.
Otherwise, you can use the longer #6 blades (which don't seem to have this flaw) or you can just be choosy about your locomotives. The vast majority of current diesels run just fine across the Kato #4 points. It's the older ones with deeper ("pizza cutter") flanges that cause the problems. I've got some older (non-DCC ready) Dapol Class 73s that never seemed to work reliably over these points, whereas my more recent models work just fine, from my Dapol 'Hymek' onwards.
Steam locomotives are a bit more hit-and-miss; my Dapol 9Fs always derail on them, while the Farish 'Duchess' has no problems at all, and nor does my Dapol 'Prairie' tank.
Cheers, NeMo
Answering simply on similar length, a Class 73 is pretty close. It also has a pair of 4-wheel bogies. I have 2 of them, they're good runners.
I also have a class 66, it's easily the longest loco in my collection, but it can handle radius 1 curves, so long as you don't drive it too fast.
Quote from: newportnobby on June 26, 2015, 09:39:00 PM
HTo be honest, I have successfully run diesels with 4, 6 and 8 axles round 9" radius Peco track although the 8 axle ones looked a bit silly ::)
Aye, me too. Farish 40/45/57 all cope fine, as does the 08 and even a Duchess - wasn't sure how a steam loco as long as that would behave, but it's fine. Dapol HSTs and 67s are also fine.
The one to avoid is the new-style-Farish 47. There is a lug beneath one of the buffers for attaching a representation of an ETS socket, and this is pretty much guaranteed to foul the NEM socket on the leading bogie and derail the loco every time it goes into a tight curve. Removing the NEM socket seems to work (the trailing bogie rarely fouls), or you could just cut off the lug from the bodyshell with a scalpel. It seems to be there even on models of non-ETS locos which wouldn't have a socket there anyway.