After 46y of happy marriage,
you are never too old to learn :
today I was telling her about flying model airplanes over layouts
(Layout Construction / Re: new layout .. no name yet ...)
and the Biggles/Pups/Camels discussion,
(BachFar Steam / Re: The Landship Train)
she is nodding her head.
After 46y you get to know when they are nodding politely and when interested. This seemed like the latter variety, so I ventured :
"You are nodding, is that because you have heard of Biggles", then tentitively, "or have you read him ?"
"Read him," she replied "well not all of them, just some."
Well, would you adam&eve it, I never knew that ! I knew that she had had a model train set but I did not marry her for that nor her wealth, honest ;)
Says I, warily, " Er, oh really, how is that then, you have not got an older brother?"
"No, what has that got to do with anything ?"
After 46y one knows when one has been put down :) !
But then she admitted, probably after seeing I was a little ashamed and crestfallen, that she had been close with her aunt's family and cousin who had many Biggles books .
Well would you believe it, she insists I get a model Sopwith Pup and when I say " but it is not in my era, '44 to '64 " she gives me a look, and after 46y one knows looks that are important and looks of little consequence, this was defo. the latter.
So it seems that Rule1 will prevail in the air as well as on the tracks.
Muse,,, wonder what will happen if I tell her all about the Landship Set ? ,,,
Hehee, today was a good day,
thanks for reading.
SWMBO and I have also been married for 46 years this year.
I once said that the first year of our marriage was the best ....
she looked at me .......
"we got married on the 16th of April, you flew out to Muharraq on the 17th on a 13 month unaccompanied tour, and you didn't come back on leave till September !"
mmmmmmmmm
"but you wrote such lovely letters every day"
good thing I keep a bottle of scotch in the shed, I spend a lot of time out here :)
alan
Shuttleworth have had an airworthy Pup since 1936 so not an impossibility having one flying 40's to 60's ,the aircraft is a two seat version,Dove, converted back to a single seat dove
Quote from: class37025 on June 13, 2015, 10:17:47 PM
good thing I keep a bottle of scotch in the shed, I spend a lot of time out here :)
:laughabovepost:
Is there a sign on the door that reads 'Doghouse', Alan?
Congrats to you both. The max I managed was 5 years :-[
I wish I could have persuaded Biggles' squadron to strafe her parents house :unimpressed:
you've been peeking :smiley-laughing:
Interesting replies guys !
There I was, expecting the first reply along the lines of
"How has she put up with you for so long" !!
Javlin > fantastic, I thought I had read somewhere that none were preserved, maybe that was Camels , ,
and I now have one Pup pack on order, so I'll report back later; actually the good news is that it is a pack of two, so that makes one for her to practice on and one for her to finish right for my birthday ;) heheee !
Allan> "unaccompanied tour"
hmmm some similarities, in my case when she was 'just' my girl friend I was offered at short notice by the Company a position in Brazil ( 6 weeks to take up, 5 days to decide ) so I says "the only way the company would pay" for her as well was if we were married,
the rest, as they say, is history.
Npn> what can I say ? I know the feeling, in those days we did not 'have to' but it was still the done thing to 'ask permission' so I did, one day when he came back to the verandah, no patos nor decking in those days, from his garden.
"harrumpf," or something like that " nothing I can do about it" and off he went back to planting his beans :laugh3:
accompanied by a, how shall we say, , a virtual Churchillian gesture, she who was to become my swmbo caught the look in my eye and gave a slight smile and wink :)
Enough of this, there are Albatroses and Spitfires and things to consider :)
Anyone remember what airplane Biggles was shot down by ?
Quote from: MalcolmAL on June 13, 2015, 11:22:27 PM
Anyone remember what airplane Biggles was shot down by ?
The following is a straight lift, (with apologies and thanks to the author) from Wikipedia - "A study of the short stories featuring his World War I exploits suggests that he claimed at least 32 kills, and was shot down or crash-landed eight times.".
Thanks,
Oh, the mists of time ! ( or the fog of war ? ! :) sorry I shuldnt make light of that in these days) not the crash landings, some gung-ho gentlemanly humour by W.E. in that respect ( and some subversive undertones as well but this isnt the place ?! )
but I thought I remembered a shooting down in France and a long trek home, probably mixing it up with some other Boys Own Annual of the time ? :(
I remember that one he was shot down by Archie (AA fire) and rescued a soldier from no mans land on his way back
Oh that all rings a bell ! (I think !!)
Quote from: javlinfaw7 on June 14, 2015, 12:48:09 AM
Archie (AA fire)
and so does Archie ring a bell, but now I wonder -
when did Archie become known as Ack-Ack ?
was it like Hun became Jerry ?
Were there anti-aircraft facilities during WW1 ? (perhaps later after the early years ?) I somehow thought that then it was mainly small arms and rifle fire that was the danger. (most of which went through the canvas etc without effect, like with the Lancasters in WW2 )
Was there not a documentary a few years ago about how the Red Baron may have been (was?) brought down by small arms from the trenches
Gosh, 2am.,
she says good night and I think I should also :)
Edit
Gosh Mk2 :)
Isnt Google wonderful !
"Nicknames for anti-aircraft guns include AA, AAA or triple-A, an abbreviation of anti-aircraft artillery; "ack-ack" (from the spelling alphabet used by the British for voice transmission of "AA");[2] and archie (a World War I British term probably coined by Amyas Borton and believed to derive via the Royal Flying Corps from the music-hall comedian George Robey's line "Archibald, certainly not!"[3])."
Like I said somewhere, never too old to learn,
Now it really is time for bed said Zebedee
Quote from: MalcolmAL on June 13, 2015, 11:22:27 PM
Interesting replies guys !
There I was, expecting the first reply along the lines of
"How has she put up with you for so long" !!
Javlin > fantastic, I thought I had read somewhere that none were preserved, maybe that was Camels , ,
and I now have one Pup pack on order, so I'll report back later; actually the good news is that it is a pack of two, so that makes one for her to practice on and one for her to finish right for my birthday ;) heheee !
But if they can build a Tornado (the steam engine, not a jet fighter - sorry if its something else - if it's not got a 'fan' - or better still 4 fans - then it doesn't interest me when it comes to aircraft) and another group are working on a Class 22 Diesel Hydraulic, why can't some group have built a replica WW1 flying machine which just happens to be flying over your layout on its way to, or from, a display?
Quote from: MalcolmAL on June 14, 2015, 02:14:37 AM
Oh that all rings a bell ! (I think !!)
Quote from: javlinfaw7 on June 14, 2015, 12:48:09 AM
Archie (AA fire)
and so does Archie ring a bell, but now I wonder -
when did Archie become known as Ack-Ack ?
was it like Hun became Jerry ?
Were there anti-aircraft facilities during WW1 ? (perhaps later after the early years ?) I somehow thought that then it was mainly small arms and rifle fire that was the danger. (most of which went through the canvas etc without effect, like with the Lancasters in WW2 )
In the early phonetic alphabet 'A' was 'Ack' (not sure why) so, for example '6am' would be pronounced on the telephone or over a wireless as 'six ack emma'. Anti aircraft fire was shortened to AA fire, hence 'Ack Ack fire' or, more often 'Ack Ack'. It was certainly known to pilots of 'Biggles' vintage as 'Archibald' (or Archie) presumably for the same phonetic reasons.
Prior to the adoption of the internationally known NATO alphabet there were some interesting variations.
In the First World War there were some dangers to low flying aircraft from small arms fire and even Baron Von Richthofen fell to it but, as you say, the 'string and canvas' aircraft for the early days meant a vital part had to be hit to bring it down. AA fire was originally just a machine gun (or rifle) angled upwards but as the war progressed specialist heavy weapons (such as adapted field guns) were introduced (from 1916) and even in the Second World War most anti aircraft guns were adapted from army use. During the First World War anti aircraft fire was not particularly dangerous and post war analysis showed (on average) it took 2000 rounds to bring down one aircraft. But it certainly was frightening to the pilots!
The feared German '88' flak gun was only an anti tank gun pointing upwards! The term 'flak', still commonly used today for when someone is in trouble, is derived from the German 'FLiegerAbwehrKanone' or anti aircraft cannon.
During the Second World War many of the problems remained for the AA gunners and, with the generally higher altitude aircraft flew at by 1939, were even more difficult to hit so the already low '2000 rounds per success' fell to nearer 3000 at one point where very high flying aircraft were concerned! With the development of radar aimed guns around 1942 AA fire became much more deadly and by 1944 was very feared indeed by aircrew.
I hope this goes some way towards answering your questions.
Curious how this thread has developed from marriage to flack. A logical connection, possibly? I don't get a lot of flak as my wife is very understanding (and has to be), but some poor folk.....
Quote from: D1042 Western Princess on June 14, 2015, 06:59:53 AM
I hope this goes some way towards answering your questions.
Yes it does thanks, all very interesting.
And I never knew that was where Flak got its name from, indeed it never occured to me to wonder why it was called that !
Isnt this a grand place to learn allsorts :thumbsup: :thankyousign: :NGaugersRule:
PS I was interested in all of them, including the ones where the fan is hidden inside :)
Great prog on TV recently "When Britain Ruled the Sky" ( or a name something like that ), did bring a tear of nostalgia to my eye !
Quote from: MalcolmAL on June 14, 2015, 10:31:06 AM
Quote from: D1042 Western Princess on June 14, 2015, 06:59:53 AM
I hope this goes some way towards answering your questions.
Yes it does thanks, all very interesting.
And I never knew that was where Flack got its name from, indeed it never occured to me to wonder why it was called that !
Isnt this a grand place to learn allsorts :thumbsup: :thankyousign: :NGaugersRule:
PS I was interested in all of them, including the ones where the fan is hidden inside :)
Great prog on TV recently "When Britain Ruled the Sky" ( or a name something like that ), did bring a tear of nostalgia to my eye !
Yes, that was a great programme, in truth two as there was one dedicated to military, and one civil, aviation.
By the way, there is no 'c' in flak, even when spelt out in the original German.
I have a huge library, over 1500 books, divided between railway history and military history which is where I found the answers to your questions.
Quote from: MalcolmAL on June 13, 2015, 11:22:27 PM
.... Albatroses and Spitfires and things to consider :)
:hmmm: Albatross v Spitfire. Should be an interesting confrontation! ;)
:thumbsup:
Thanks, noted and corrected ;)
Well well, that must be the first time I ever needed to actually write the word and I got it wrong! tut, >>> goes to stand in the dunce's corner :dunce: :)
muttering cursing onomatopoeia and wondering if I can speel thatun right :)
Quote from: MalcolmAL on June 14, 2015, 10:57:46 AM
:thumbsup:
Thanks, noted and corrected ;)
Well well, that must be the first time I ever needed to actually write the word and I got it wrong! tut, >>> goes to stand in the dunce's corner :dunce: :)
muttering cursing onomatopoeia and wondering if I can speel thatun right :)
To be honest I wasn't on about spelling but the thought of those two aircraft dogfighting!
On paper the Spit had all the advantages, but dogfights didn't take place on paper!
The Albatross, being slower and would probably have been more agile in the air, would have been a very difficult target in the hands of an experienced pilot like the Red Baron given that the stalling speed of the German fighter was well below a Spit, for example.
Sorry if you thought otherwise.
88 was originally a flak gun ,thus it's cumbersome mount ,it proved however to be a superb A.T. Weapon and eventually a purpose built A.T. Version was built
seems like this post has gone full circle ....
started on the subject of marriage ......
now on the subject of combat ....... :smiley-laughing:
Quote from: D1042 Western Princess on June 14, 2015, 01:09:37 PM
Quote from: MalcolmAL on June 14, 2015, 10:57:46 AM
:thumbsup:
Thanks, noted and corrected ;)
Well well, that must be the first time I ever needed to actually write the word and I got it wrong! tut, >>> goes to stand in the dunce's corner :dunce: :)
muttering cursing onomatopoeia and wondering if I can speel thatun right :)
To be honest I wasn't on about spelling but the thought of those two aircraft dogfighting!
On paper the Spit had all the advantages, but dogfights didn't take place on paper!
The Albatross, being slower and would probably have been more agile in the air, would have been a very difficult target in the hands of an experienced pilot like the Red Baron given that the stalling speed of the German fighter was well below a Spit, for example.
Sorry if you thought otherwise.
No problem, we got a bit xxed in the postings
I was responding with a bit of a chuckle to your :
"By the way, there is no 'c' in flak, even when spelt out in the original German."
so I went back and removed the c you see :)
Spits vs. Albatross hmmm reminds me of a science fiction story involving a time warp when the Americans entered ww1 with F16 or similar. Their radar didnt find the wood and fabric so they couldnt shoot anything down and were going too fast anyway. But the sonic booms disintegrated the Fockers, so they all fell out of the sky, the Germans didnt know why they lost and the Americans didnt know how they had won, or something like that !
Quote from: javlinfaw7 on June 14, 2015, 01:54:49 PM
88 was originally a flak gun ,thus it's cumbersome mount ,it proved however to be a superb A.T. Weapon and eventually a purpose built A.T. Version was built
:-[ :sorrysign:
I have two versions, the one I quoted is at odds with your version and the second, more detailed account of the desert war where it as first used as an anti tank weapon.
I therefore bow to you and your post.
Greg :dunce:
Quote from: MalcolmAL on June 14, 2015, 02:47:36 PM
Spits vs. Albatross hmmm reminds me of a science fiction story involving a time warp when the Americans entered ww1 with F16 or similar. Their radar didnt find the wood and fabric so they couldnt shoot anything down and were going too fast anyway. But the sonic booms disintegrated the Fockers, so they all fell out of the sky, the Germans didnt know why they lost and the Americans didnt know how they had won, or something like that !
A bit like the Final Countdown, where USS Nimitz goes back in time to Pearl Harbor.