>:( I'm just at my track testing stage trying to iron out all the bugs. My Diesels, Dmu's run like a dream. Different story when I run my Steamers, once traveling over the points they run rough, they are really noisy and forever derailing. I have changed all my points to either medium or long radius, the set track points are simply horrible. The problem seems to be the front bogie not wanting to follow the direction the points are set at, trying to enter what will be my eventual goods yard just isn't happening. Like I mentioned earlier, my Diesels and Dmu type loco's run beautifully with no problems whatsoever. I've decided to change my steamers to Diesels as this seems the way to go if I want to avoid future issues. Track is completely flat code 80 and new. :thankyousign:
This seems a popular theme! Various other threads and comments along these lines, believe me.
The bottom line is surely that at 2mm scale the detail on steam locomotives is hard to replicate without the resulting plastic bits being fragile or the moving metal parts easily upset. You can by all means buy a Union Mills steam locomotive that will put even the best Farish or Dapol diesel to shame when it comes to haulage and reliability. But UM models are a bit "yesterday's technology today" when it comes to engineering. Solid, reliable, but not detailed (or for that matter, DCC-ready). Compared to, say, a Dapol 9F or a Farish Duchess, UM models look rather basic.
If you want something that looks like a steam loco though, I can't recommend these UM models highly enough. They are pretty charming too in their way, and unless you model the GWR, there's something for everyone, even a few pre-grouping designs.
There is a thread elsewhere (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=13857) that discussing detailing UM models. Worth a look.
Cheers, NeMo
Some questions
Do your steamers run ok when not on points?
Are you using dead frog points, these can cause problems especially with short wheelbase non tender locos. Live frogs are much better.
Are the switch rails making proper contact?
Are the points clean?
Just a few questions - pointers that might give you a few clues. :beers:
I'm not a kettle person, but I do have a BachFar 5MT for old times' sake, and as a card-carrying masochist a large number of Kato #4 unitrack points. As it seems terribly fragile, I don't get it out that often, but experience has shown that the points need to be properly laid (no minor kinks in the connection with the other pieces of track), and a point right after a (set track) curve is a recipe for derailments, though not only with kettles. I also have a Japanese kettle from Kato, which is somewhat more robustly built, but copes pretty well with the track.
This comes up from time to time and we always get lots of answers.
I have no real trouble with steam locomotives. Can I ask, are you putting your points immediately after a curve as this can cause problems (if so, put in a short section of straight track between the curve and the point so that any pony trucks can get themselves aligned properly).
I'd echo what others have said - make sure the joins are perfect and that the point is not angled from the track (even a little bit out will cause problems).
And I'd also echo Nemo's comments. Union Mills locos are rugged and heavy - they will run on anything but detail is lacking. I like them personally (shame that he doesn't do GW!).
I must be very fortunate on HOLLERTON JUNCTION as all the track in PECO Code 80 Setrack including the points. Touch wood I have not had any serious problems with my steam fleet. Well none that could not be traced to the model rather than the track.
Paddy
Quote from: austinbob on April 27, 2015, 04:41:02 PM
Some questions
Do your steamers run ok when not on points?
Are you using dead frog points, these can cause problems especially with short wheelbase non tender locos. Live frogs are much better.
Are the switch rails making proper contact?
Are the points clean?
Just a few questions - pointers that might give you a few clues. :beers:
Sorry I've probably added confusion to the answers to your problem. I didn't read your post properly and now realise you have a derailing and not an electrical proble. Apologies.... :sorrysign:
My layout has code 80 track with dead frog points and my locos are mostly steam of different ages and makes. I spent along time getting my trackwork as well laid as I possibly could.
So far I have had no problems with any of my steam locos. Diesel locos are much more forgiving of slightly dodgy trackwork.
I'm not saying this is the case with the OPs track but things to consider are wheel back to backs and tight curves. Incorrect wheel back to backs on front bogies can result in derailments.
If you push a wagon round your trackwork by hand you can usually feel any rough spots on the track that could cause problems.
If the steam locos run through the points backwards without a problem then I think the bogies may need looking at.
Quote from: silly moo on April 27, 2015, 06:28:52 PM
My layout has code 80 track with dead frog points and my locos are mostly steam of different ages and makes. I spent along time getting my trackwork as well laid as I possibly could.
So far I have had no problems with any of my steam locos. Diesel locos are much more forgiving of slightly dodgy trackwork.
I'm not saying this is the case with the OPs track but things to consider are wheel back to backs and tight curves. Incorrect wheel back to backs on front bogies can result in derailments.
If you push a wagon round your trackwork by hand you can usually feel any rough spots on the track that could cause problems.
If the steam locos run through the points backwards without a problem then I think the bogies may need looking at.
Nice tips - I'll remember those once I get my points installed - run mostly kettles, all of which have been thoroughly tested on a set track oval with no derailing problems. Fingers crossed if I lay the points properly
:thankyousign:
I have 2 Steam locomotives with the small bogie wheels and in my experience they are inclined to jump the points if I try to traverse them too quickly!
Many of the points are immediately following a curve and I find that merely slowing the pace makes for point cover much easier, they are all dead frogs too!
I suppose one method of overcoming this problem might be to fit a slightly stronger spring on top of the offending bogies. mind you the diesels do the same if I try to rush things!
Peter.
Quote from: NeMo on April 27, 2015, 04:09:51 PM
This seems a popular theme! Various other threads and comments along these lines, believe me.
The bottom line is surely that at 2mm scale the detail on steam locomotives is hard to replicate without the resulting plastic bits being fragile or the moving metal parts easily upset. You can by all means buy a Union Mills steam locomotive that will put even the best Farish or Dapol diesel to shame when it comes to haulage and reliability. But UM models are a bit "yesterday's technology today" when it comes to engineering. Solid, reliable, but not detailed (or for that matter, DCC-ready). Compared to, say, a Dapol 9F or a Farish Duchess, UM models look rather basic.
If you want something that looks like a steam loco though, I can't recommend these UM models highly enough. They are pretty charming too in their way, and unless you model the GWR, there's something for everyone, even a few pre-grouping designs.
There is a thread elsewhere (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=13857) that discussing detailing UM models. Worth a look.
Cheers, NeMo
Hi NeMo and all
For balance I find my Union Mills locos no more tolerant of poor tracklaying or pointwork than other makes, in fact if anything less so.
In the opening post by Marcus doesn't actually mention which make and models of locos, and to be fair some are far better than others. I find some early Dapol (9F, M7, Ivatt and 45xx) truly dreadful (later models are better) Farish is generally ok, the V2 front pony is a bit wayward and the WD can be but I am in the main with Paddy, I have very few problems.
Regards
Roy
If the offending Locos have bogies try replacing or gluing on a metal BHE coupling that will give more weight to the bogie I have found this works very well on 99% of steam Locos .
Bob
A small number of modellers do seem to report problems with steam locos, many many more are able to run them successfully and reliably. Diesels by virtue of their simple box structure are less vulnerable to mistreatment, but in my experience the majority of issues with steam locos are user inflicted.
The running problems described by the OP are almost certainly the result of one of three causes:
- poorly laid track
- damage (to track or loco) caused by rough handling or poor maintenance
- excessive operating speed
If it is recently manufactured stock with finer wheels that is having problems it is also worth noting that running quality is much better on code 55 track because of the slightly tighter clearances and shallower flangeways which mean the wheels drop in to the frog much less. this is particularly noticeable on steam locos with a pony truck.
Quote from: PLD on April 28, 2015, 12:14:23 AM
A small number of modellers do seem to report problems with steam locos, many many more are able to run them successfully and reliably. Diesels by virtue of their simple box structure are less vulnerable to mistreatment, but in my experience the majority of issues with steam locos are user inflicted.
The running problems described by the OP are almost certainly the result of one of three causes:
- poorly laid track
- damage (to track or loco) caused by rough handling or poor maintenance
- excessive operating speed
If it is recently manufactured stock with finer wheels that is having problems it is also worth noting that running quality is much better on code 55 track because of the slightly tighter clearances and shallower flangeways which mean the wheels drop in to the frog much less. this is particularly noticeable on steam locos with a pony truck.
I would totally agree with all of this, PLD has hit the nail squarely on the head. Steam is pretty reliable, often uses exactly the same motors as diesels (Dapol do) or superior (e.g. the Farish coreless motor). Derailments are in the majority of occasions a result of the track not being perfect (scale up your track and a tiny 1mm bump would be a 6" chasm on a real railway - so is it any wonder things derail?) - some locos can suffer the odd problem, but the vast majority are fine out of the box in terms of derailment - in fact reading these kind of things makes me wonder how I seem to be lucky - derailments are virtually non-existent on my layout, mostly caused by human error!
Cheers,
Alan
I, too, have found that if any of my 40-50 steam locos (mix of Dapol/Farish/Peco/Trix) derail it's usually traced to a track fault, and I have curves leading into points, points leading into curves - in fact, most permutations of pointwork.
Generally diesels are smoother running as they are far less complicated and less fussy over poor trackwork. One of the main problems with N gauge diesels still remains the split gear issue. I tested a few locos which had been stored for a couple of years recently and about half had split gears. One example, a class 57 had at least 3 split gears - all on one bogie and all driving wheels. Steam doesn't seem to be affected by this issue.