N Gauge Forum

Heeeeeeeeeeelp!!!

At the moment my mind is spinning with all the brilliant info I have received  :laugh3:

I originally had it in my mind to build a layout about 8x4 ft as this was the size of my original 00 layout! circa 1959!!

However after seeing just how much BIGGER a 8 x4 `n` gauge layout  is I am rethinking my ambition!

I have decided that it would be far more sensible to start small and as I learn and get more confidence, use what I have on my next layout thus increasing size and complexity at a rate I am happy with. :dunce:

I definitely want to go the DCC route, with engines having lights (If applicable) and sound also electric points

I have seen this advertised... 

Graham Farish  Countryside Coal Digital Train Set £ 169.95 dcc 3 Which includes a digital controller http://www.bachmann.co.uk/image_box.php?image=images1/farish/370-080.jpg&cat_no=370-080&info=0&width=650&height=459 (http://www.bachmann.co.uk/image_box.php?image=images1/farish/370-080.jpg&cat_no=370-080&info=0&width=650&height=459)

And feel that it could be the ideal starter for me

Does anyone else feel that this is a correct way for a newbie.

FW

Hi Wallie,

Looks OK to me - but I am not a DCC guy so others may suggest different controllers.

I would say though that it is a great idea to start with a small layout.  This is one of my hobby-horses; start with a really small layout that you can complete in a few months, feel a sense of satisfaction of having completed a layout, learn the skills, work out what  you really want to do for your "proper" layout and move on.

Here is a thread expounding this idea!

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=16753.0 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=16753.0)

Cheers

Jon  :)

I agree with  starting with a small layout but as to the starter set I am a bit ambivalent the controller that comes with it is very basic and you will probably out grow it very quickly seeing you want to use sound equipped stock.

I am no expert on this set but from comments of others on the Forum suspect you will soon consider changing both the controller and tack.

You might want to take a look at the SPROG 3 DCC system, it connects to your PC and home hub. With it you can easily program chips (even I can do it) and allows you to use an iPhone or iPad to act as a throttle to control your Locos (I am not sure about Android systems).

As to track I plumped for Kato despite its expense and clunky appearance because of the ease of use and the points all coming fully motorised

Ray

It's a nice set and for newcomers sets are an ideal way as well as often saving over buying the components individually. The 3F 'Jinty' loco that comes with this set is a nice loco and a good runner.

The controller supplied, as some have said, is at the basic end of the range but is well made, will let you control a few trains, switch their lights on and off etc.
If your initial foray into n guage is planned to be no more that a loop or two and a few sidings and you just want to run the trains without doing much programming it will be fine. Some time down the road you may decide to upgrade but you will probably have a better idea of what you want by then.

The Farish track in the set is fully compatable with Peco code 80 set track so can be added to easy and will get used unless you decide to do something more 'finescale' with the layouts track.

It's a nice set with the SDJR loco not available outside this set and is available at retail for about £140 which is a good price for  what you get but the EZ Command is very limited in it's capabilities and you will soon discover it's limitations and want to upgrade to a better specified controller.

The EZ can only program a loco address in the range 1-9, corresponding to the 1-9 buttons on the handset, and change the default loco direction. There is no other programmability to change acceleration/deceleration or do a decoder reset.  It only has function control for functions 0 thru 9 which is ok for lights on/off but limiting for sound equipped locos. Also it has no read back capability. You could circumvent this by buying a Sprog 2 which can read and program all CVs (configuration variables you can assign a value to, to control how the loco performs accelerates etc) in conjunction with the JMRI suite of software (google JMRI for more info on this)

This was my first controller and it was a great intro to DCC for a month before I wished the shop had advised me on alternatives  :worried:

You might consider buying a more capable controller such as NCE
Powercab ( about £135-140)or Digitrax Zephyr (£150-160) Others available at differing budgets, styles and capabilities.  :hmmm:

This would cost significantly more however! :thumbsdown:

A starter pack of Peco track is around £40.
Dapol Pannier tank 57xx £61 (just choosing the cheapest DCC ready kettle I can find, other manufacturer's are available  ;) )
DCC Decoder (£20)
Couple of wagons ( selection of Peco box/ Private owner wagons around £6-7 each)
Which is about what the set would cost then whichever controller you decide on top. :o

On the subject of sound, only US  or Continental outline is currently available sound equipped out of the box although Bachmann have announced a forthcoming class 108 DMU with sound fitted.

I'll let someone else comment on adding sound/speakers in Non equipped locos.

having said all that, The set is good value. It can run 4 locos simultaneously if you can keep track of them and it's simple to use within the limitations above.

Enjoy!

C. :)

Clearly this took me far too long to type! :dunce:

Sorry, Wallie, but what appears to be good value may be a false economy.

Others have said the controller is basic and I bow to their experience as I'm not running DCC.
The track itself is pretty basic and not really the best, so if you're considering a small layout to start with, I would second the use of Kato (one of our advertisers 'TrainTrax' is very good price/supply wise).
If you're of the 'I run anything' school then the loco and wagons will be fine, but you've already stated you want to go for lights/sound and any loco with lights is going to be pretty much dated a lot later than the S & D Jinty and private owner wagons virtually extinct.

Just some thoughts before you start spending :hmmm:

Hello

I can only echo what has already been said by others. It may be worth reading some of the reviews in the DCC section on the forum to see what is said about some of the various brands on offer. If you want to have your points controlled via the DCC as well as loco's and lighting you may want to consider something a bit more future proof/expandable so it can grow with your layout which the EZ system won't.

As i have said before consider exactly what you will want the system to do in the future and where possible try before you buy. Think of it like buying a car - most people go for a test drive first and research before splashing the cash. Your control system is one of your most important parts of the layout in my opinion.

Have you thought much about the layout design, era etc yet?

Hiya all,
Many thanks for all your helpful suggestions. :thankyousign:

I have given this some thought (Not an easy task at my age) :confused2:

Bearing in mind I haven't any experience of model trains since about 1958! And do not even know different classes!! (http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/1b/1bd653ca7760b8bb57c60797e773b15b4c6a92ea476e60e91e2e1e264cd5d43f.jpg)

I thought `Jinty` was a yuppy term for a Gin and Tonic!! :dunce:

Now if you want to know anything about Percussion Pistols of the Old West I`m your man!! :thumbsup:

I still reckon I want to start small and get comfortable with it and then either add to, or start again using what I already have.

I understand what you are saying about the Controller etc. and so I am up for suggestions as to what sort of `Starter pack` I should build.

I definitely want to go the DCC route, seeing a You Tube clip of an `n` Gauge Loco with working lights and sound is what got my interest back!!

I think for my first attempt....

With regard to era, I think I want to go with 1955-1965
A Town in rural middle England with a station and a goods yard.

I envisage ending up with 3 Steam locos (2 mainline and 1 shunter) and 2 Deisel (I mainline and 1 shunter)

Finally could you please explain the `Fiddle Yard` and its purpose as they seem to be quite a large part of some layouts

FW

Hi willie

Fiddle Yard, I like to think of it as your own personal storage yard where all your pre formed trains await your commands to perform their duties.

Ray

Another way of looking at your fiddle yard is that it represents the rest of the railway.

The trains on your scenic section have to have come from somewhere, or be going to somewhere for the railway to have a point to its existence - that 'somewhere' off-scene is the fiddle yard :thumbsup:


Paul

As already said your fiddle yard is the off scene area (back stage areas/wings) of the stage that is the scenic section of your layout, it is here you store your stock and it provides a area to add or remove stock with out having to worry about catching/damaging all your detailed scenery.

If you think of your layout like a theatre - the stage is the pretty part with all the scenery and then your fiddle yard is the backstage bit the audience dont get to see but is where all the magic is happening.

With regards to control systems you really need to try some systems out if you can before you actually pay for anything. If you can get to some larger exhibitions there is often at least 1 stall where you can trial a sample of the systems. If you really want to consider sounds you may be best considering a system which can link in some way to a pc be that through a SPROG or a dedicated system such as the digitrax/NCE systems. There is a large amount available and it is a very personal choice.

Are there any local societies/clubs you could join or at least visit where you could get a bit of practice and support for the basics any layout needs not just DCC such as wiring etc prior to really getting stuck into your own layout?

Quote from: Fireman Wallie on April 07, 2015, 08:30:16 PM
Hiya all,
Many thanks for all your helpful suggestions. :thankyousign:

I definitely want to go the DCC route, seeing a You Tube clip of an `n` Gauge Loco with working lights and sound is what got my interest back!!

FW

You don't have to go DCC to run diesel locos with lights and use electric points, and although DCC gives you more a lot more sound options, you can still have sound with DC.

I only started modelling in N gauge in September 2013 and decided to go DC rather than DCC and have no intention of ever going the DCC route.

Most of my diesel engines have running lights, and I employ both manual and electric points, and am currently experimenting with adding sound.

Agree with what others say in starting small, and also agree you should get a decent controller straight from the off. Due to space limitations my layout has a maximum size of 80 inches by 34 inches but includes a double loop and the option of running more than one train at once on different tracks.

Set your size and manually draw a simple layout on paper, or use something like AnyRail or Scarm to design it on your PC (Scarm is free).

Good luck.

Oh and by the way - I shall probably come in for criticsmn for saying this - but you don't necessarily need a "fiddle yard" if you want continuous running - I don't have one - just lots of sidings. 

Quote from: Fireman Wallie on April 07, 2015, 08:30:16 PM

With regard to era, I think I want to go with 1955-1965
A Town in rural middle England with a station and a goods yard.

You'll probably get loads of suggestions for locos so here goes mine:-
Steam (all late crest)
Jubilee
Black 5
Jinty (shunter)

Diesel
Class 24 or class 25
Class 08 (shunter)

All would fit Middle Earth rural middle England nicely and, apart from the Black 5, are relatively recent releases which all run well. The Jubilee/Black 5 are not large crack express locos but are jacks of all trades i.e. passenger, parcels, freight etc.
The class 24/25 are now fitted with directional lights.

Quote from: Tdm on April 07, 2015, 09:12:14 PM
Oh and by the way - I shall probably come in for criticsmn for saying this - but you don't necessarily need a "fiddle yard" if you want continuous running - I don't have one - just lots of sidings.

I agree - I tend to think that fiddle yards are a bit of a fiddle and that everything should be done on the main layout...

FW, I suggest you visit a few model railway shows - there are bound to be a few coming up in your part of the south coast. You will get an idea of the sort of things other people have done and get a few ideas. And talk to people - you should get a sensible answer to even the most basic questions because we were all beginners once.

Go for it and have fun!

Chris

Agree with pretty much all the above ... my thoughts though :

• The controller is a very personal piece of kit ... some like the general type as seen in your starter kit; others that resemble complex TV remotes; others again that are akin to a video game controller.  Best thing to do is get to a decent DCC seller (almost certainly not your local shop !  They will sell you what's best for them, not for you !) maybe at a large Show, and play with the various types.  See what you like, and as importantly what you do not like.  Then start looking at the different ones in the style you find best for you.
• If you like the rolling stock in that starter set - ask some retailers if they'll split the set & sell you those parts.  Some will faint in shock at you daring to ask, others will quote you a decent price (such as the lads in Hereford Models).  For the date range you're interested in, as commented you need to look at BR Late Crest stuff; plenty around.
• As far as track is concerned - pretty much Peco all the way.  You can get their Starter set in Code 80, or you can go into more fine-scale with their Code 55 (better choice of points, etc).  Or you can build your own in Code 40.  But I can't really recommend the GraFar track ... while better than Hornby do in OO, it's still not as good as Peco !

Hope the above is of help ...

Mike

Personally, I think that the choice of track type is the most important decision in starting out (besides DC or DCC). Locos and wagons can be bought and sold and the controller can be upgraded, but once a track type is selected then it is a nuisance to change if it proves to not be optimal. Set track is easiest for the beginner for testing out layout designs  either using track planning software or physically laying out the track.

I've never seen it, but Kato is supposed to be great stuff. The advantage of code 80 Peco set track is that it mates directly with their flex track. In building a small tester layout, it might be instructive to incorporate a few sections of flex to see what it can do. Flex is more difficult to use on tight curves, but on bigger layouts with larger radius curves it comes into its own. As pointed out by Mike, the Peco route also allows additional options for finescale track (code 55), insulfrog vs electrofrog, and points radii. Maybe getting too confusing, but I think it is worth the effort to ensure you get the best track type to begin with.

Good luck
Webbo

Quote from: Fireman Wallie on April 06, 2015, 07:40:15 PM

I have seen this advertised... 

Graham Farish  Countryside Coal Digital Train Set £ 169.95 dcc 3 Which includes a digital controller http://www.bachmann.co.uk/image_box.php?image=images1/farish/370-080.jpg&cat_no=370-080&info=0&width=650&height=459 (http://www.bachmann.co.uk/image_box.php?image=images1/farish/370-080.jpg&cat_no=370-080&info=0&width=650&height=459)

And feel that it could be the ideal starter for me

A good start to get the feet wet.
Simple controller but still good enough to allow one to become familiar with DCC.  Nice usable track pack.
If you later decide to shift to other track types, this track starter pack would make an excellent test track to trouble-shoot and run-in locos.

CFJ

Quote from: Fireman Wallie on April 07, 2015, 08:30:16 PM
Hiya all,
Ma


I still reckon I want to start small and get comfortable with it and then either add to, or start again using what I already have.


I think for my first attempt....

With regard to era, I think I want to go with 1955-1965
A Town in rural middle England with a station and a goods yard.

I envisage ending up with 3 Steam locos (2 mainline and 1 shunter) and 2 Deisel (I mainline and 1 shunter)

Maybe the Graham Farish 370-070 Cornish Riviera set might fit your need better as it's in Era for you ... but still is a basic 'get you started' DCC set ?

Thanks to all of you for your help (Its really needed  :doh:)..

Well..... one thing is now definitely sorted!!

The era is.... 1953-1963 :claphappy:

My wife returned from helping out at a local charity shop with this little beauty for me... (http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a229/paladinuk/n%20gauge%20stuff/san-javelin-prezzie-8-4-15%202_zpsek9ag6qq.jpg)

A 1953 Jowett Javelin  :)

Sadly I will have to do most of my buying online as my disability makes going to shows etc. more grief than fun, which makes all your help really appreciated :thankyousign:

FW

There is a gaugemaste DCC controller in the For sale section on the forum.

Coupled with an Osbornes Kato set and you are off!

http://tinyurl.com/mthlk4t (http://tinyurl.com/mthlk4t)

Read the Kato track section and get a good view of its benefits - Iv.'e got  200' in my loft so I just like it!

It's great for beginners and very forgiving to relaying, unlike Peco!

Quote from: Fireman Wallie on April 08, 2015, 03:52:16 PM

Thanks to all of you for your help (Its really needed  :doh:)..

Well..... one thing is now definitely sorted!!

The era is.... 1953-1963 :claphappy:

My wife returned from helping out at a local charity shop with this little beauty for me... (http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a229/paladinuk/n%20gauge%20stuff/san-javelin-prezzie-8-4-15%202_zpsek9ag6qq.jpg)

A 1953 Jowett Javelin  :)

Sadly I will have to do most of my buying online as my disability makes going to shows etc. more grief than fun, which makes all your help really appreciated :thankyousign:

FW

Good choice on era - you can put a foot into both the worlds of late steam and early diesel. The 1953 Javelin should not stop you from running trains from the 1980's or 2000's though. Here in Canberra there is still the occasional 1960s Chevrolet and E-type on the streets to this day.

With respect to choice of starting gear, I suggest that you pick and choose whatever locos and rolling stock suites you best. There is a huge choice available from online stores. In the bad old days of OO, Triang and Hornby Dublo couplers (and the early track) were totally incompatible with one another. Nowadays in British N scale, locos and rolling stock of the various makes all couple together and will run on virtually any kind of track with any sort of controller (once DC or DCC is specified). If your choice of starting equipment all comes together in a set, well and good as there might be a bit of money to be saved. However, the different makes of track are not generally compatible with one another. You may save some money initially with a set, but if it means that you must continue with a track type that does not suite, then this may be a false saving.

Webbo

Hi all...

A couple of members have suggested `Kato` over `Peco` track, is Kato generally considered the better/best  :thankyousign:

Like its been kindly suggested its best to get things right from the outset :thumbsup:

FW

I wouldn't necessarily say it's the best but for a newcomer to N gauge layouts I would always recommend it as it's simple 'plug 'n' play' so is easy to dismantle. The biggest benefit is the points contain all the necessary motors so, although they seem expensive, they do take the puzzle out of wiring.

Quote from: Fireman Wallie on April 10, 2015, 10:35:36 AM
A couple of members have suggested `Kato` over `Peco` track, is Kato generally considered the better/best  :thankyousign:

Not better. Different.

Kato Unitrack is modular set-piece track with built in ballast, power supply pieces, and where relevant, point motors. Everything is easy to wire thanks to built-in sockets. It's durable, easy to re-use, and the Unitrack joiners are very strong and reliable.

On the downside it doesn't look terribly realistic out of the box. Weathering helps a lot, and adding ballast if you want to (I do both). But even with this, it's still not nearly so realistic as, say, Code 55 Peco track.

So it's apples and oranges really. With Unitrack you get a reliable track system that needs minimal electric skills and, once you factor in the point motors, is pretty decent value. With Peco Streamline you get flexitrack for smoother curves, and your choice of how to ballast it, resulting in a more natural look. But Peco Streamline requires more careful assembly and wiring.

I like them both. I used Unitrack on my West Country layout and have re-used most of the track on my current layout (yet to be named). But I used Streamline on the Nuclear layout. Both systems have their pluses and minuses, and neither is definitively superior.

Cheers, NeMo

I think there was a post on here about problems with one of the Kato points but then there was a very clear and concise post on how to cure the problem perhaps you can find it in the search button .
My late mate had Kato and said it was very easy to change the track round if he wanted a change but he did have a problem with one loco that wouldn't go through one of the points  I can't remember what type of point it was, I Personaly prefer Peco streamline.
Bob

Quote from: Bob Tidbury on April 10, 2015, 11:08:57 AM
I think there was a post on here about problems with one of the Kato points but then there was a very clear and concise post on how to cure the problem perhaps you can find it in the search button .

Probably the #4 points, which derail some locomotives because the moving rails don't fit as snugly against the fixed rails as they should. Filing little notches into the fixed rails can help.

Quote from: Bob Tidbury on April 10, 2015, 11:08:57 AM
I Personaly prefer Peco streamline.

Nicely put. Choosing one instead of the other is about what you're after from your track. As a system for getting miniature toy trains to run reliably around ovals, Unitrack is better. As a material for creating realistic models of railways, Streamline points and flexitrack are better. If you're skilled and careful, you can get Streamline track working very reliably even after ballasting (which is usually where things go wrong). If you're creative, you can get Unitrack looking surprisingly realistic (look at Lofthole (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=14792.0;nowap) for example).

So it really comes down to what you want the track to bring to the table (reliability vs. appearance) and what you're prepared to do yourself (scenic sleight of hand vs. track laying and electrical engineering). Each modeller will have their own strengths, and that's how you objectively choose between Unitrack vs. Streamline.

Cheers, NeMo

Well said NeMo

In a nutshell, choice of track at least between flex and set track is really a personal one dependent on ambitions for the layout, modelling skills, as well as intangibles (aesthetics etc.). Other makers of flex and set track are possibilities also, but with both Peco and Kato one can rely on their reliability and quality of manufacture.

Webbo