Has anyone tried converting Dapol Mk3s to represent the Chiltern power-door stock? It's beyond my capabilities!
The replacement power doors doors are wider than the original slam doors, have different-shaped windows, and are set in from the coach ends whereas the slam doors wrapped around the corner. Also, the gangway doors have been removed, and replaced with glass sliding doors - as is clearly visible if a coach is removed from its set. On the coach nearest the loco, a steel plate is bolted over the outside of the glass doors.
The buffets would be even more of a challenge - when they were first refurbished for Wrexham and Shropshire the window arrangement was significantly altered, and Chiltern have had them modified with power doors, but at the saloon end only (apparently the kitchen counter was too close at the other end, and they wanted to avoid additional significant internal work).
I have looked in depth at these and was looking to try a 3d print body for it.
I am trying at the moment at gain access to a set on a Sunday when they are not working. It shouldn't be an issue but I do have contacts on the inside (me!).
But I think it will be summer before I can do any real work on the cad drawings once I have sorted out a few other projects that I'm working on first.
Alistair
Quote from: alibuchan on March 24, 2015, 11:01:05 AM
I have looked in depth at these and was looking to try a 3d print body for it.
I am trying at the moment at gain access to a set on a Sunday when they are not working. It shouldn't be an issue but I do have contacts on the inside (me!).
But I think it will be summer before I can do any real work on the cad drawings once I have sorted out a few other projects that I'm working on first.
Alistair
I would certainly be interested to hear of any news on this when it happens. Is your plan to design it to use parts from the Dapol coach (interior, glazing, bogies)? As I'm sure you know, the roof on the Dapol models is technically wrong for the Chiltern coaches as they are Mk3as and therefore have different ventilators (the Dapol model is correct for HST trailers and MK3b LHCS).
hi, I have a Dapol MK3 part done for the RFM version - not that bad but work to do to get into the painting stage.
I think Adam Warr at Electra has overlays for a conversion.
A straight print on to a Dapol shell would not be that convincing I think so a 3D body shell looks a good way forward , CMA in Birmingham do a very good resin casting service so if demand shows itself a resin print and swapping parts from a donor Dapol shell might well be a good way forward. I am sure If you have the right contacts getting info to Steve Railtec would see suitable decals fairly quickly and a good job at a good price !
More strength to your elbow
Robert .
I'm sure if my boss will give me some access to the coaches on a Sunday all of the information and decoration shouldn't be an issue. Just got to get him to agree to it ;)
Alistair
I do indeed produce vinyls to convert the Farish Mk3s into the new Chiltern power-door conversions, with enough coaches to do a complete set, including the Buffet First conversion. The only downside of my vinyls is that they are grey rather than silver due to the limitations of the printing process.
If anyone fancies having a go at converting Dapol coaches, I could produce the power doors as individual items, along with any other livery elements - these would be on thin vinyl with clear backing.
Adam, How would clear vinyl work of a silver painted body. All the livery elements on clear for the complete bodyside with the windows cut out wouls seem to offer a solution.
Probably a challenge to get the silver looking suitably metallic without the graininess of many metallic colours.
I would put my name down for some resin sides for donor coaches, the only little question I have is what about the DVT as the body work is different with what looks like some kind of large grill on the side!.
If anyone has looked at or tried that conversion of a DVT it would be interesting to read, and then completes the rake.
The grilles are the air cooling intakes I think for the auxiliary generator intended to be used in terminal stations to avoid having to run the Class 67 (or soon the Class 68) with the fuel consumption and exhaust gases at a higher level. Oddly though at Marylebone the DVT is marshalled next to the concourse under the overall roof so the exhaust fumes can still gather. Can't see that it would be a solution at Snow Hill (fully covered) or Moor Street (no overall canopy), so would seem better to have the 67/68 at the south end but shut down at Marylebone.
Thanks for that insight Mike,
Lie they say everyday is a school day!
Quote from: acko22 on March 25, 2015, 05:34:37 PM
I would put my name down for some resin sides for donor coaches, the only little question I have is what about the DVT as the body work is different with what looks like some kind of large grill on the side!.
If anyone has looked at or tried that conversion of a DVT it would be interesting to read, and then completes the rake.
The DVTs have a generator fitted in them, hence the grills.
Don't forget that as of next week or so, if you are modelling the present, class 68 locos will be needed! Dapol are producing these in both OO and N gauges, but yet haven't said what liveries they are doing them in (there are three possible to go at already) but it seems pretty likely that they will do Chiltern livery.
Dave,
Lets get the actual models before we worry about the livery's, well all know from been announced to been made can be delayed to say the least!
Quote from: woodbury22uk on March 25, 2015, 06:04:18 PM
The grilles are the air cooling intakes I think for the auxiliary generator intended to be used in terminal stations to avoid having to run the Class 67 (or soon the Class 68) with the fuel consumption and exhaust gases at a higher level. Oddly though at Marylebone the DVT is marshalled next to the concourse under the overall roof so the exhaust fumes can still gather. Can't see that it would be a solution at Snow Hill (fully covered) or Moor Street (no overall canopy), so would seem better to have the 67/68 at the south end but shut down at Marylebone.
I believe the issue was more complaints about the noise from the Class 67s rather than fuel consumption - those 2-stroke engines do make quite a row!
Quote from: acko22 on March 25, 2015, 06:14:17 PM
Dave,
Lets get the actual models before we worry about the livery's, well all know from been announced to been made can be delayed to say the least!
Apparently Dapol have scanned one of the real locos, so they are on with it! Don't think they've given a projected delivery date - which is probably wise given how these things tend to go! Let's hope they do as good a job as they have with the 67.
I've got a feeling that the Class 68 may be leapfrogging the queue of Dapol releases. It's shaping up into an interesting class of locomotives, with DRS, Chiltern and now Scotrail Saltire-liveried locos to choose from.
For those interested in the current Chiltern Mainline trains, on the Dapol Digest site their MD Joel Bright has indicated that they intend to include the current slam door train set in a future run of Mk3 coaches. The set currently operates between Marylebone and Bicester North, and has previously run to Banbury on a regular basis , with odd forays to the edges of the Chiltern network. The days of the real coaches are numbered because they will not have a power door conversion, or be equipped for the next phase of disabled passenger requirements. The DVT would almost certainly be unchanged, although the Chiltern ones have one van door on each side fitted with air flow grilles for the diesel powered auxiliary power unit used in conjunction with Chiltern trains.
A three coach plus DVT bookset maybe?
Quote from: woodbury22uk on August 31, 2018, 08:03:46 PM
For those interested in the current Chiltern Mainline trains, on the Dapol Digest site their MD Joel Bright has indicated that they intend to include the current slam door train set in a future run of Mk3 coaches. The set currently operates between Marylebone and Bicester North, and has previously run to Banbury on a regular basis , with odd forays to the edges of the Chiltern network. The days of the real coaches are numbered because they will not have a power door conversion, or be equipped for the next phase of disabled passenger requirements. The DVT would almost certainly be unchanged, although the Chiltern ones have one van door on each side fitted with air flow grilles for the diesel powered auxiliary power unit used in conjunction with Chiltern trains.
Deadline for slam door coaches on service trains is the end of next year - PRM rules come into force on 1st January 2020. Derrogations would be required for operation beyond that: the Night Riviera has been granted a derrogation on the basis that staff will open the doors, but that's not a practical option for standard daytime trains. It remains to be seen whether any short-term derrogations will be granted, especially for HSTs. Realistically it probably will happen, especially on the Midland Mainline where there is nothing available to replace the HSTs, the franchise is about to be re-let and there isn't time to modify the HSTs even if they wanted to.
HSTs on the ECML and GWR are due to be replaced with new trains by the end of next year (with some of the GWR sets being shortened and fitted with power doors, for both Scotrail intercity and GWR local services). The Greater Anglia loco-hauled Mk3s are due to be replaced by new Stadler units, and the Mk3s in Wales are due to be replaced with Mk4s ex-LNER (three sets for the Cardiff-Holyhead service: the north Wales set will go back to units). The Scotrail sleepers are being replace by new CAF Mk5 carriages, and the Crosscountry HSTs are having power doors fitted.
As most of you with an interest in Mk3s will probably know, the power doors being used on the HSTs are not the same as the Chiltern ones: Chiltern fitted plug doors (which move outwards and swing to the side outside the bodyshell when opened) and which are wider than the original slam doors. With the HSTs, they have gone for sliding doors which retract inside the bodyshell and are about the same width as the slam doors (they look like the doors on a Class 56 or IEP). Apparently the main reason for this was that the Chiltern conversions were very difficult to do as an exact fit is required for the plug door, and the Mk3s aren't built to very close tolerances. The sliding doors were designed to be more tolerant in that the whole unit of door and pocket are manufacturerd and then inserted into a widened aperture and welded in, but even that has fallen foul of the dimension variations in the coaches and hence the project is running late.
Mk2s will of course also be ruled out by the PRM rules, so the temporary sets of those in use with Northern (Cumbrian coast), GA (Norwich - Lowestoft/Great Yarmouth) and Scotrail (Fife Circle) will all be withdrawn.
With the Chiltern DVT, so far as I know they don't use the generators much / at all now - the reason for installing them was that the 67s were noisy when providing the ETS supply when stabled (their two-stroke engines make a high-pitched and very noticeable noise) and there had been complaints from people living nearby. The 68s now used are lower-pitched and much less obtrusive.
I am very much looking forward to having the slam door set. Finally something for my locos to pull! It's only been 18 months since I first mentioned it to Joel. And 12 since I started sending them the pictures, of each coach, trying to convince them to produce them.
The slam door set is 99.99% not going to be in service after December 2019. As the pricing looks prohibitive to how much longer it would be in service. With a new franchise on the way in 2021, there could be the possibility of a new stock order if it is anything like the other new ones recently handed out by he DaFT.
The Genset in the DVT have recently been used a lot more over the past 6-9 months due to issues with the ETS on the loco dropping in and out. So to make sure the supply is good it is easiest to have the genny giving it a top up to keep the PA and lighting going.
The plug door sets need to be made compliant as well. This would include modified seats so that the arm rests move to allow easier access to them and CIS (customer info systems) have to be added to make them compliant.
Al
Quote from: alibuchan on August 31, 2018, 09:21:41 PM
The Genset in the DVT have recently been used a lot more over the past 6-9 months due to issues with the ETS on the loco dropping in and out. So to make sure the supply is good it is easiest to have the genny giving it a top up to keep the PA and lighting going.
The plug door sets need to be made compliant as well. This would include modified seats so that the arm rests move to allow easier access to them and CIS (customer info systems) have to be added to make them compliant.
Cheers. Didn't realise there were issues with the ETS on 68s. Let's hope that there is a fix or Transpennine are going to have a problem! Are DRS working on it?
Presumably the supply from the locos is turned off when the generator is on? As I understand it only there can only be one supply of ETS to a train at a time.
Yes, I did know about those issues with the power door sets. I guess the question is whether they will replace / modify the seats and add the information screens, or go for a derrogation if the sets aren't going to be in use for long: it surely has to be likely that the sets won't survive much beyond 2020 anyway, given that they haven't been particularly reliable, are a very small fleet, and are owned by Arriva so aren't likely to feature in the long-term plans of any other bidders for the franchise.