I bought a Class 58 EWS DCC fitted from Dapol direct, it ran for about 3 feet then stopped and would not move the lights still switched on and off so the chip was at least partially working, I tried to contact Dapol twice from the contact us page on the web site with no reply, so I took the Bull by the horns and parceled the loco up and sent it back recorded delivery. It was delivered and signed for early in January (about the 7th ), I received no acknowledgement of the return, I waited until the end of February (23rd) and wrote to them and still no reply, so they have had my Loco for 60 days and my letter 9 days and apparently done nothing, to say I am not impressed is a understatement, so much for their no quibble warranty :veryangry: :censored: :help: .
I have had the same non response from Dapol. Very poor company to deal with.
Elmo
Don`t get me started on their customer service,quite frankly it is appalling.Good luck with your loco,you`ll need it.
Quote from: elmo on March 04, 2015, 06:20:53 PM
I have had the same non response from Dapol. Very poor company to deal with.
Elmo
Likewise - absolutely no response to a complaint
>:(
As always there are 2 sides to the coin!
My locomotive, the Britannia, motor failed within 3 months of purchase.
I returned it to the company from whom I had purchased it originally, they then returned it to Dapol (I assume it went direct to DCC Supplies) and it was returned to me within 2 weeks fitted with a new motor and an extended guarantee.
It is the ONLY experience I have had with Dapol so can only say that I think it was good service.
Regards, Peter.
Have you called them, its a bit harder to ignore a phonecall.
Quote from: cjdodd on March 04, 2015, 06:40:25 PM
Have you called them, its a bit harder to ignore a phonecall.
Or start a small claim against them, I think this covers faulty goods,
and it would be very embarrassing for them.
The guy in shop is nice on Saturdays, great discounts. :angel:
Quote from: Ditape on March 04, 2015, 05:45:02 PM
I bought a Class 58 EWS DCC fitted from Dapol direct, it ran for about 3 feet then stopped and would not move the lights still switched on and off so the chip was at least partially working, I tried to contact Dapol twice from the contact us page on the web site with no reply, so I took the Bull by the horns and parceled the loco up and sent it back recorded delivery. It was delivered and signed for early in January (about the 7th ), I received no acknowledgement of the return, I waited until the end of February (23rd) and wrote to them and still no reply, so they have had my Loco for 60 days and my letter 9 days and apparently done nothing, to say I am not impressed is a understatement, so much for their no quibble warranty :veryangry: :censored: :help: .
This in no way absolves Dapol for their poor service towards you, but I'm pretty sure that warranty claims are supposed to go to DCC supplies, so when they do eventually acknowledge your issue, you may find that it takes even longer to resolve. Sadly.
I sent a wobbling A4 (Sir Charles Newton in BR Green) to DCC Suplies, and they duly replaced the chassis with a new one. Unfortunately the replacement chassis was from a garter blue engine, and so it had red painted wheels. Very disappointing. It has been returned again....... :thumbsdown:
When I had a problem with my second hand eBay bought Western Venturer, DCC supplies checked and repaired it free of charge which even included a free post label to get it there a back so I can only say the dapol service was excellent in my case.
I don't think this even counts as a warranty claim - it's an offence under the Sale of Goods Act pure and simple, ie. it is not of merchantable quality because it doesn't do what it is supposed to do. The person who sold it to you is liable.
I have to say that tales like this put me off ever buying anything with a motor in it from Dapol even though they produce locos I could use on my layout, and I suspect I am not alone. I wonder if they realise that? The trouble is, if this had been bought by someone starting out in N they would probably give the whole idea up and take up barbershop singing instead and another recruit would be lost to the hobby... >:(
Chris
The problems that could be done under warranty went to DCC supplies and were 100% resolved.
http://helpdesk.dccsupplies.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/46/0/dapol-warranty-returns (http://helpdesk.dccsupplies.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/46/0/dapol-warranty-returns)
Hope the link helps!
Regards
Russ
Oh Chris, I thought you were going to say they'd take up Morris Dancing!
Ditape, I think you've done what many reasonable people would have done.
Dan
Quote from: RussellH on March 04, 2015, 08:19:11 PM
The problems that could be done under warranty went to DCC supplies and were 100% resolved.
http://helpdesk.dccsupplies.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/46/0/dapol-warranty-returns (http://helpdesk.dccsupplies.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/46/0/dapol-warranty-returns)
Hope the link helps!
Regards
Russ
I'm sure DCC supplies do a good job with Dapol stuff but, I think the point of this thread is that if you try and contact Dapol Direct you invariably don't even get a response. That just isn't good enough is it??
>:(
Quote from: Papyrus on March 04, 2015, 08:07:27 PM
I don't think this even counts as a warranty claim - it's an offence under the Sale of Goods Act pure and simple, ie. it is not of merchantable quality because it doesn't do what it is supposed to do. The person who sold it to you is liable.
I have to say that tales like this put me off ever buying anything with a motor in it from Dapol even though they produce locos I could use on my layout, and I suspect I am not alone. I wonder if they realise that? The trouble is, if this had been bought by someone starting out in N they would probably give the whole idea up and take up barbershop singing instead and another recruit would be lost to the hobby... >:(
Chris
A few bad stories out of the hundreds of locos per running number does not make them a bad manufacturer. I would encourage the original poster to ring Dapol directly urgently first thing tomorrow, I would not have left it as long as he has in the first place. Letters, emails and contact forms are all to easily ignored a phone call is not.
Quote from: NtasticShop on March 04, 2015, 08:28:42 PM
Quote from: Papyrus on March 04, 2015, 08:07:27 PM
I don't think this even counts as a warranty claim - it's an offence under the Sale of Goods Act pure and simple, ie. it is not of merchantable quality because it doesn't do what it is supposed to do. The person who sold it to you is liable.
I have to say that tales like this put me off ever buying anything with a motor in it from Dapol even though they produce locos I could use on my layout, and I suspect I am not alone. I wonder if they realise that? The trouble is, if this had been bought by someone starting out in N they would probably give the whole idea up and take up barbershop singing instead and another recruit would be lost to the hobby... >:(
Chris
A few bad stories out of the hundreds of locos per running number does not make them a bad manufacturer. I would encourage the original poster to ring Dapol directly urgently first thing tomorrow, I would not have left it as long as he has in the first place. Letters, emails and contact forms are all to easily ignored a phone call is not.
I don't think this alters the fact that, in the interest of keeping customers happy, it is just common courtesy to respond to customer enquiries, complaints etc. It is just not acceptable under any circumstances to not reply to communications from customers.
:veryangry:
Ditape, I'd go with Ntastic's suggestion to be fair. I'm with you all the way as a consumer and understand your feelings. Give them a call (the number's on the website).
I don't like it when companies put a "contact us" box on their webpage for you to fill in - it's not an e-mail from your account, you have no record of it, you don't even know if it's been delivered, and when you get no response you're left scratching your head. Many companies have this arrangement (I'm not singling out Dapol specifically here).
Let us know how you get on. I suspect there are some on this website who will be able to pass your concerns to the relevant people so this gets sorted.
Good luck.
Dan
Quote from: austinbob on March 04, 2015, 08:33:21 PM
Quote from: NtasticShop on March 04, 2015, 08:28:42 PM
Quote from: Papyrus on March 04, 2015, 08:07:27 PM
I don't think this even counts as a warranty claim - it's an offence under the Sale of Goods Act pure and simple, ie. it is not of merchantable quality because it doesn't do what it is supposed to do. The person who sold it to you is liable.
I have to say that tales like this put me off ever buying anything with a motor in it from Dapol even though they produce locos I could use on my layout, and I suspect I am not alone. I wonder if they realise that? The trouble is, if this had been bought by someone starting out in N they would probably give the whole idea up and take up barbershop singing instead and another recruit would be lost to the hobby... >:(
Chris
A few bad stories out of the hundreds of locos per running number does not make them a bad manufacturer. I would encourage the original poster to ring Dapol directly urgently first thing tomorrow, I would not have left it as long as he has in the first place. Letters, emails and contact forms are all to easily ignored a phone call is not.
I don't think this alters the fact that, in the interest of keeping customers happy, it is just common courtesy to respond to customer enquiries, complaints etc. It is just not acceptable under any circumstances to not reply to communications from customers.
:veryangry:
I agree ALL comms should get a reply including sending in a product. My main concern is leaving it so long and then just sending another letter , then on hear slagging them off. If I was out of pocket for a DCC loco I would have been screaming back in January. I notice the original post is also on the Dapol Facebook page so it should get a response on their and hopefully resolved.
One other thing I've not seen mentioned, if you paid for the loco by credit card you can also contact your card provider and get them to reclaim your money back - they have a legal obligation to do so. If you paid by PayPal file an item not as described complaint.
Legally the retailer is responsible for returns, I believe. Therefore if the retailer was Dapol direct then sending it back to them is perfectly valid thing to do.
As someone else said, phone them up :
http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=information/contact (http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=information/contact)
Or try posting on their Facebook page - this seems to be regularly viewed and updated.
Cheers,
Alan
In January I had to return a class 22 diesel I bought directly from Dapol. Did it via the contact us option on the website and got a prompt reply. The loco took about 2 weeks to be returned and is fine so no grumbles. When I mentioned posting costs they sent me a free 7 plank ICI coal wagon...
It appears that posting on Dapol's Facebook page works,I posted my original post on Facebook and within 24 hours had this reply:-
Dear Diane Thanks for your message and my apologies for the terrible service you have received from Dapol on this occasion. I have been away from the office for the last couple of weeks so have only just been made ware of the situation and have started an investigation to see what has gone wrong. Hopefully, by now you should have been contacted and at east we can start the ball rolling on rectifying the situation. Please accept my apologies again. Kind Regards Joel Bright MD
A replacement loco should be with me in the morning.
Well folks, as the NGS Helpline Officer you would have thought that Dapol would have responsed to a couple of my queries by email, but regrettably no.
I have been deeply disappointed by lack of the contact i have been able to get from the manufacturing and management side of the business, as it stops me helping my members with their questions, but i do believe the repairs side which is managed by DCC supplies is OK.
Bob G
Well, I think this thread has taught us all never to buy direct from Dapol :thumbsdown:
It's quite incredible that they would just ignore a customer and hope the problem goes away, and only respond to the issue once a public post has been made on Facebook that might tarnish their image (they do that themselves if you ask me). Retailers need their customers to come back if they want to survive, Dapol presumably aren't bothered about people who buy direct since the retailers are their main source of income. If they lose a customer forever it won't make the slightest bit of difference to them.
JB
Well, people power can be a pretty potent force.
I have several Dapol locos, eagerly await their Grange, and want to see them prosper.
However, if their customer service can be so bad that to get anything done people have to shame them on facebook, maybe WE the customer should give them a tug.
There are things called boycotts that can very often have a miraculous effect/ reality check for the recipient of them. Just saying...
well gents and girls
everybody who knows me will know that I think that the Dapol Customer service is pretty sh......, especially when we are talking about DCC supllies.
But on the other hand it has forced me to learn to solve issues my selves, which brings me to the point that I start loving more and more all those people who are sending back loco's under warranty for all sorts of reasons which are coming back on market really really cheap. My latest massive laugh was a class 66 which I could buy for only £ 30,-- to found out that the problem was a blanking plug which was fitted the wrong way around.
So please do not feel offended legal rights are legal rights, quality is quality and customer service is customer service. but... sometimes we could have a simple look ourselves to find that a lot of problems are easy and simple to solve
Quote from: Maurits71 on March 10, 2015, 10:30:05 AM
well gents and girls
everybody who knows me will know that I think that the Dapol Customer service is pretty sh......, especially when we are talking about DCC supllies.
But on the other hand it has forced me to learn to solve issues my selves, which brings me to the point that I start loving more and more all those people who are sending back loco's under warranty for all sorts of reasons which are coming back on market really really cheap. My latest massive laugh was a class 66 which I could buy for only £ 30,-- to found out that the problem was a blanking plug which was fitted the wrong way around.
So please do not feel offended legal rights are legal rights, quality is quality and customer service is customer service. but... sometimes we could have a simple look ourselves to find that a lot of problems are easy and simple to solve
You're right that we could (some of us) fix some problems ourselves but the whole point is that we shouldn't have to.
Great, so next time I buy a kitchen appliance or a power tool and it stops working after all of three seconds I should just open it up and fix it myself (thus voiding any warranty)? Not likely. I'm curious: what do you do if you open it up and find the problem can't be fixed, or you attempt to fix it and make things worse (we've all had our little soldering iron incidents)? Your warranty is void from that point on so do you just throw your £100 loco / appliance / tool in the bin use it as a paperweight?
If you return your defective products, not only do you retain your warranty rights but the manufacturer then has labour costs / hours to consider, since someone will have to spend time determining what the problem is and then fixing it. If the product can't be repaired and needs replacing, then addition to these labour costs / hours they have to factor in the cost of writing off the defective unit, the cost of sending out a free replacement, the cost of postage, plus the damage these defective products are doing to their reputation. If they had to factor this in 5 times for every 100 products sold then perhaps they might look into improving the quality from the outset. The fact that people refuse to return shoddy brand new goods to the manufacturer is part of the problem. In each of those cases the defective product has cost the manufacturer absolutely nothing to repair or replace. Zero. Nada. They produce sub-standard items and get away with it, so it's no wonder they continue churning them out.
JB
Here we go again. JB is correct to a point, but as with almost every point there has to be an element of commonsense and proportionality applied.
If, for example, the circuit board or motor fails then absolutely send it back.
If, again for example, the contacts are not making proper contact then it becomes a bit more of a grey area - it certainly wouldn't be unreasonable to investigate why the running was poor and ascertain whether it could be fixed easily.
Your warranty is not necessarily void the moment you open it - that would depend on the warranty conditions and what you try to do to it. Again as an example if the loco was designed to be serviced by taking off the body and you did that to eg apply oil then your warranty is not void.
Mike
tja JB
I though by starting my answer with don't feel offended that people should try to understand what I meant to say. probably next time I will reply in Dutch maybe you understand me better than.
You're absolutely right, we should expect a top quality product, we don't want to pay for it, but we still expect it. My point was and is that it's not needed to send something back without having a look.
will give you 4 examples
class 66 ews, bought as non runner - reason blanking plug was fitted wrong way around,
class 66 freight, bought as without working lights, reason one plug wasn't connected properly
class 43, dcc decoder fitted, non runner on dc, reason cv settings wrong
class 60, lots of noise whilst running, reason one bogie not fitted properly, runs perfect after an hour running in now.
that was my point, non of the previous owners couldn't be bothered about having a look, if they did and removing the body or bogies is allowed under warranty rules than they had a perfectly working loco.
don't understand me wrong, I am the first person to offend Dapol and DCC as I believe their quality control and customer service is below zero and I buy atm only if it's either really cheap or if I can't get it in a different brand but still.
Quote from: red_death on March 10, 2015, 12:18:30 PM
Your warranty is not necessarily void the moment you open it - that would depend on the warranty conditions and what you try to do to it. Again as an example if the loco was designed to be serviced by taking off the body and you did that to eg apply oil then your warranty is not void.
Most modern locos require body removal for DCC chip fitting, so that won't void a warranty as you rightly say.
Cheers,
Alan
The Loco arrived as promised and is currently running in on Snoozebury. :thumbsup: :)
I haven't taken offence to what you were saying, I simply don't agree with it. In the past week I've bought two second-hand locomotives which turned out to be non-runners on arrival, it happens on occasion. I got a partial refund from the sellers as I don't expect to receive a non-runner when I've paid "good condition" prices, and then repaired them myself. A bit of soldering later and all was well - end of story. However if I was ever to receive a brand new loco and find that it didn't work it would go straight back, in the same way I'd return a new fridge that didn't refrigerate when I plugged it in, or a new car that broke down the second I drove it off the forecourt. If it hasn't been put together properly at the factory then I don't want it.
I'm not sure you can compare buying second-hand non-runners to buying brand new stock - you don't really expect the non-runner to work when you take it out of the box!
My point is, if we don't send shoddy goods back to the manufacturer then we're shooting ourselves in the foot as they won't be aware of the issue, or they'll be able to ignore it as it doesn't cost them anything, and the end result is that the quality will never improve.
Besides, not everyone has the tools, confidence or simply the will to take a delicate, brand-new locomotive apart and hope for the best when they attempt to fix it themselves. We're agreed that the warranty isn't simply void the second you take off the shell, but if you attempt a repair and mess it up then that's game over. The manufacturer's likely to just send it straight back to you and suggest you buy a new one.
JB
Quote from: Maurits71 on March 10, 2015, 10:30:05 AM
well gents and girls
everybody who knows me will know that I think that the Dapol Customer service is pretty sh......, especially when we are talking about DCC supllies.
But on the other hand it has forced me to learn to solve issues my selves, which brings me to the point that I start loving more and more all those people who are sending back loco's under warranty for all sorts of reasons which are coming back on market really really cheap. My latest massive laugh was a class 66 which I could buy for only £ 30,-- to found out that the problem was a blanking plug which was fitted the wrong way around.
So please do not feel offended legal rights are legal rights, quality is quality and customer service is customer service. but... sometimes we could have a simple look ourselves to find that a lot of problems are easy and simple to solve
I couldn't agree with you more. We shouldn't have fix things ourselves. Unfortunately these days it is often the only way to solve a problem and certainly less stressful.
Dodger
I reported my Dapol Class 86 to Joel on the Dapol Facebook page via a private message. I sent it to the address that he gave me, and a week later a replacement arrived. It's the only one that I've had go wrong, so hopefully it won't happen again.
As far as I am concerned, if you purchase a new loco from Dapol, or indeed any manufacturer, or their retailers, and it is not working properly the ONLY answer, for the average modeller, is to send it back for replacement from whence it came!
The faulty item is not fit for purpose and you should not need to mess around in any way in the hope that you can rectify the fault, even if it is simply the pick up's not making proper contact. I see no reason why the purchaser should even have the hassle of returning the item to DCC Supplies or anyone else for that matter. The product purchased is not fit for purchase, at point of sale, so back it goes and you get a new one - or a full refund - no questions asked under the sale of goods act.
By so doing you not only safeguard your position but you also make Dapol or any manufacturer of the shortcomings of their products. If we all simply attempt to sort the problem ourselves we stand the chance of voiding our warranty and perhaps more importantly not making the manufacturer aware of the problem associated with that model. Perhaps this will focus their minds more fully on quality control.
I am aware that we have many excellent modellers in the Forum who think nothing of stripping down a loco and are more than able to resolve most problems but for Mr average the above approach is the recommended way forward in my eyes.
Quote from: Avis1434 on March 10, 2015, 08:29:56 PM
The faulty item is not fit for purpose and you should not need to mess around in any way in the hope that you can rectify the fault, even if it is simply the pick up's not making proper contact.
Really? Should the "average" modeller not even be able to make sure that contacts are actually making contact?
It would be great to think that nothing ever gets dislodged in shipping (half way round the world and within the UK postal network), but it may be wishful thinking.
Cheers, Mike
Quote from: red_death on March 10, 2015, 10:11:21 PM
Quote from: Avis1434 on March 10, 2015, 08:29:56 PM
The faulty item is not fit for purpose and you should not need to mess around in any way in the hope that you can rectify the fault, even if it is simply the pick up's not making proper contact.
Really? Should the "average" modeller not even be able to make sure that contacts are actually making contact?
It would be great to think that nothing ever gets dislodged in shipping (half way round the world and within the UK postal network), but it may be wishful thinking.
Cheers, Mike
Some suppliers may actually test before sending, we will see if that comes to pass, and can be maintained, when DJM comes on-stream, attention to this kind of detail may require some cost/funds, what does not require cost is a pleasant attitude from suppliers.
The "average" brancher-out into revolutionary enterprises in the field of customer relations will soon have to moderate his tone, else his enterprise will need a new front man, aka customer relations officer.
Quote from: red_death on March 10, 2015, 10:11:21 PM
Quote from: Avis1434 on March 10, 2015, 08:29:56 PM
The faulty item is not fit for purpose and you should not need to mess around in any way in the hope that you can rectify the fault, even if it is simply the pick up's not making proper contact.
Really? Should the "average" modeller not even be able to make sure that contacts are actually making contact?
It would be great to think that nothing ever gets dislodged in shipping (half way round the world and within the UK postal network), but it may be wishful thinking.
Cheers, Mike
A Dapol A4 from Model Railways Direct is similar in price to a Russel Hobbs fridge-freezer from Argos.
They are both mass produced consumer products.
If the fridge-freezer didn't work on delivery what would you do?
Best regards
Michael
Quote from: MalcolmAL on March 10, 2015, 10:25:10 PM
Quote from: red_death on March 10, 2015, 10:11:21 PM
Quote from: Avis1434 on March 10, 2015, 08:29:56 PM
The faulty item is not fit for purpose and you should not need to mess around in any way in the hope that you can rectify the fault, even if it is simply the pick up's not making proper contact.
Really? Should the "average" modeller not even be able to make sure that contacts are actually making contact?
It would be great to think that nothing ever gets dislodged in shipping (half way round the world and within the UK postal network), but it may be wishful thinking.
Cheers, Mike
Some suppliers may actually test before sending, we will see if that comes to pass, and can be maintained, when DJM comes on-stream, attention to this kind of detail may require some cost/funds, what does not require cost is a pleasant attitude from suppliers.
The "average" brancher-out into revolutionary enterprises in the field of customer relations will soon have to moderate his tone, else his enterprise will need a new front man, aka customer relations officer.
On stream now mate, currently checking my first Vapourware, down in Cornwall :-)
Quote from: Michael Shillabeer on March 11, 2015, 08:10:12 AM
Quote from: red_death on March 10, 2015, 10:11:21 PM
Quote from: Avis1434 on March 10, 2015, 08:29:56 PM
The faulty item is not fit for purpose and you should not need to mess around in any way in the hope that you can rectify the fault, even if it is simply the pick up's not making proper contact.
Really? Should the "average" modeller not even be able to make sure that contacts are actually making contact?
It would be great to think that nothing ever gets dislodged in shipping (half way round the world and within the UK postal network), but it may be wishful thinking.
Cheers, Mike
A Dapol A4 from Model Railways Direct is similar in price to a Russel Hobbs fridge-freezer from Argos.
They are both mass produced consumer products.
If the fridge-freezer didn't work on delivery what would you do?
Best regards
Michael
First thing I'd do? Check the fuse. If it wasn't there, I'd fit one and email the manufacturer to inform them. If it was there I'd replace it and email the manufacturer to inform them. IF that didn't work, I'd read the troubleshooting section of the manual. At the end of that, call the retailer.
Quote from: Michael Shillabeer on March 11, 2015, 08:10:12 AM
Quote from: red_death on March 10, 2015, 10:11:21 PM
Quote from: Avis1434 on March 10, 2015, 08:29:56 PM
The faulty item is not fit for purpose and you should not need to mess around in any way in the hope that you can rectify the fault, even if it is simply the pick up's not making proper contact.
Really? Should the "average" modeller not even be able to make sure that contacts are actually making contact?
It would be great to think that nothing ever gets dislodged in shipping (half way round the world and within the UK postal network), but it may be wishful thinking.
Cheers, Mike
A Dapol A4 from Model Railways Direct is similar in price to a Russel Hobbs fridge-freezer from Argos.
They are both mass produced consumer products.
If the fridge-freezer didn't work on delivery what would you do?
Best regards
Michael
Follow the trouble shooting instructions in the user manual.
(and they dont make fridge freezers....)
Russ
Quote from: MalcolmAL on March 10, 2015, 10:25:10 PM
Some suppliers may actually test before sending, we will see if that comes to pass, and can be maintained, when DJM comes on-stream, attention to this kind of detail may require some cost/funds, what does not require cost is a pleasant attitude from suppliers.
The "average" brancher-out into revolutionary enterprises in the field of customer relations will soon have to moderate his tone, else his enterprise will need a new front man, aka customer relations officer.
Ah an ad hom attack rather than address the point....
Testing before dispatch doesn't guarantee that nothing will get knocked out of place during transit to the final destination :no:
Quote from: Michael Shillabeer on March 11, 2015, 08:10:12 AM
A Dapol A4 from Model Railways Direct is similar in price to a Russel Hobbs fridge-freezer from Argos.
They are both mass produced consumer products.
If the fridge-freezer didn't work on delivery what would you do?
I'd see if it was something simple to fix (and that will obviously vary between items) before I sent it back.
That is not an attempt to give a manufacturer a "free pass", but a recognition that mistakes happen or that things can get unseated in transit. There is also an element of what is easiest for me.
Of course the nature of the fault and the product will dictate how easy/possible it is to fix something.
Cheers, Mike
This is all self-contradictory - on the one hand; we have people (quite rightly) 'observing' that the service of manufacturers can fall below both expectation and, sometimes, statutory rights.
On the other; people asking why you can't fix it yourself.
You wouldn't put up with shoddy goods/service in any other field and frankly; 'fixing it yourself' is just letting the manufacturer off the hook.
If you *can* fix it yourself; good for you - but this thread wasn't for you.
Above post sums it up, when you buy goods new they should work straight from the box, and the retailer
is responsible. I wonder if model rail stuff is more likely to be bought by mail order than other things, which
might lead some people to "fix it yourself" rather than go through the hassle of returning it etc.
Quote from: FeelixTC on March 11, 2015, 10:48:29 AM
This is all self-contradictory - on the one hand; we have people (quite rightly) 'observing' that the service of manufacturers can fall below both expectation and, sometimes, statutory rights.
On the other; people asking why you can't fix it yourself.
You wouldn't put up with shoddy goods/service in any other field and frankly; 'fixing it yourself' is just letting the manufacturer off the hook.
If you *can* fix it yourself; good for you - but this thread wasn't for you.
Not quite. A DCC blanking card slipping out in transit does not constitute shoddy goods/service in my view, but I guess we all have differing view on what is acceptable and what isn't.
What was this thread for? For those who feel disaffected by something that doesn't work as advertised to have a collective moan, open only to those who agree with their sentiment? Or a thread open to everyone who may actually have some decent, relevant and helpful advice.
If the problem is something simple like a blanking card fallen out, then slot it back in and tell the manufacturer you had to do it. How in the world is that letting them off the hook?
Quote from: Only Me on March 11, 2015, 11:28:31 AM
Thought I'd post this as never heard or seen this issue before.....
That's a truely bizarre one....
Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: ScottyStitch on March 11, 2015, 11:07:33 AM
Not quite. A DCC blanking card slipping out in transit does not constitute shoddy goods/service in my view, but I guess we all have differing view on what is acceptable and what isn't.
Indeed we do; my view is it's been received 'not fit for purpose' - What do *you* think 'Ready to Run' means??
Quote from: ScottyStitch on March 11, 2015, 11:07:33 AM
If the problem is something simple like a blanking card fallen out, then slot it back in and tell the manufacturer you had to do it. How in the world is that letting them off the hook?
Because that doesn't happen, does it?? Nobody that fixes (or; finishes the job properly) a faulty item contacts the manufacturer with that feedback, so the manufacturer never knows how crap some of the kit they ship is.
Instead; they just seem to bleat about how easy it is to do and give the impression that the less experienced/confident person is somehow 'failing' by having the temerity to ask for proper kit.
These are expensive and delicate items, is it *really* so wrong to expect them to work properly?
I think the main problem has been the fact that it took so long to get a response of any kind from Dapol and that they only replied once The OP posted on Facebook.
The MD said that he was away but the rest of the staff have let him down badly. All they would have needed to do was to refer Ditape to DCC supplies or at the very least have the courtesy to reply to her letter.
I fear Dapol have ignored customer service for years and will probably continue to do so as they just cannot seem to 'connect' with their customers. 4 years ago I was told in no uncertain terms at TINGS that the NGF had a downer on Dapol. The Q & A on RMWeb degenerated into a farce as Dapol couldn't/wouldn't answer what was thrown at them. Does their entire customer interface revolve around Joel? If so, it just sums them up :unimpressed:
I have many Dapol locos and, when you get a good 'un, they are lovely lookers/runners.
I'm of the 'if it doesn't do what it says on the tin return it immediately to the retailer' brigade. They sold me the shoddy goods so they should replace it. What they do with the duff one is up to them - I don't care. This applies to Dapol/Farish/Peco (I've had duffers from each) so I'm not biased :no:
Quote from: red_death on March 10, 2015, 10:11:21 PM
Quote from: Avis1434 on March 10, 2015, 08:29:56 PM
The faulty item is not fit for purpose and you should not need to mess around in any way in the hope that you can rectify the fault, even if it is simply the pick up's not making proper contact.
Really? Should the "average" modeller not even be able to make sure that contacts are actually making contact?
It would be great to think that nothing ever gets dislodged in shipping (half way round the world and within the UK postal network), but it may be wishful thinking.
Cheers, Mike
Yes Really !! I think you're out of order suggesting that "average " modellers should know how to .........
If manufacturers sent out well QC'd models to start out with we wouldn't need to have the knowledge you obviously have and to suggest that if we don't have it we are below "average", well I take exception to that !
We're looking to improve the standard of these expensive items not gain knowledge of how to rectify their mistakes,
Rob.
I wouldn't want to even try to take a Dapol loco apart as they seem to be held together with easily broken plastic clips and paint. I don't think they were ever designed to be taken apart and serviced.
I've been very lucky with their locos so far and only have one semi dud which is a real screecher.
The new locos are delicate and finely detailed, not everyone has the confidence and skill to take them apart for even the simplest adjustment.
Quote from: Rob H on March 11, 2015, 01:14:25 PM
Yes Really !! I think you're out of order suggesting that "average " modellers should know how to .........
If manufacturers sent out well QC'd models to start out with we wouldn't need to have the knowledge you obviously have and to suggest that if we don't have it we are below "average", well I take exception to that !
Sorry but that is a completely OTT reaction. If you want to take offence where none was intended then you will only stress yourself out.
My point was not necessarily about QC. The example I gave of things becoming loose or mal-aligned in transit is almost impossible to solve - QC, testing and even design (unless you can come up with something radically different) won't necessarily solve those sorts of problems.
Mike
Quote from: red_death on March 11, 2015, 01:32:58 PM
My point was not necessarily about QC. The example I gave of things becoming loose or mal-aligned in transit is almost impossible to solve - QC, testing and even design (unless you can come up with something radically different) won't necessarily solve those sorts of problems.
Mike
But it's still not the purchasers problem is it?
Quote from: red_death on March 11, 2015, 01:32:58 PM
Quote from: Rob H on March 11, 2015, 01:14:25 PM
Yes Really !! I think you're out of order suggesting that "average " modellers should know how to .........
If manufacturers sent out well QC'd models to start out with we wouldn't need to have the knowledge you obviously have and to suggest that if we don't have it we are below "average", well I take exception to that !
Sorry but that is a completely OTT reaction. If you want to take offence where none was intended then you will only stress yourself out.
My point was not necessarily about QC. The example I gave of things becoming loose or mal-aligned in transit is almost impossible to solve - QC, testing and even design (unless you can come up with something radically different) won't necessarily solve those sorts of problems.
Mike
Well if the designers can't design something that doesn't come loose, misaligned or detached then in my view they haven't done a very good job, and its still not my job to rectify it - even if i had you unenviable knowledge !!
Stressed out Rob, not !!
Quote from: FeelixTC on March 11, 2015, 11:39:11 AM
Quote from: ScottyStitch on March 11, 2015, 11:07:33 AM
Not quite. A DCC blanking card slipping out in transit does not constitute shoddy goods/service in my view, but I guess we all have differing view on what is acceptable and what isn't.
Indeed we do; my view is it's been received 'not fit for purpose' - What do *you* think 'Ready to Run' means??
Quote from: ScottyStitch on March 11, 2015, 11:07:33 AM
If the problem is something simple like a blanking card fallen out, then slot it back in and tell the manufacturer you had to do it. How in the world is that letting them off the hook?
Because that doesn't happen, does it?? Nobody that fixes (or; finishes the job properly) a faulty item contacts the manufacturer with that feedback, so the manufacturer never knows how crap some of the kit they ship is.
Instead; they just seem to bleat about how easy it is to do and give the impression that the less experienced/confident person is somehow 'failing' by having the temerity to ask for proper kit.
These are expensive and delicate items, is it *really* so wrong to expect them to work properly?
Nobody? The biggest sweeping statement of this whole thread. :smiley-laughing:
Quote from: ScottyStitch on March 11, 2015, 01:57:23 PM
Nobody? The biggest sweeping statement of this whole thread. :smiley-laughing:
Let's do a straw poll then; come on, hands up?
Well I do, so that's blown your 'nobody' out of the water.
Seriously mate, take a chill pill and calm down. It's a toy train, pure and simple. :D
Quote from: ScottyStitch on March 11, 2015, 02:08:26 PM
Well I do, so that's blown your 'nobody' out of the water.
Seriously mate, take a chill pill and calm down. It's a toy train, pure and simple. :D
You may find it more useful to apply your pedantry to your consumer rights.
It's not a toy train if it don't work; it's an ornament.
Oh, and thanks for the medical advice, but please don't refer to me as 'mate'.
Quote from: FeelixTC on March 11, 2015, 02:06:46 PM
Quote from: ScottyStitch on March 11, 2015, 01:57:23 PM
Nobody? The biggest sweeping statement of this whole thread. :smiley-laughing:
Let's do a straw poll then; come on, hands up?
Seems a bit irrelevant to be honest. When you consider that Dapol simply ignore messages and even parcels from unhappy customers who want them to fix a faulty product, it's a bit naïve to think that a message telling them how you spent 30 minutes fixing it yourself will go anywhere other than their Deleted Items folder.
JB
Blimey, mate, that escalated quickly!
Whatever you say. Happy modelling.
Quote from: ScottyStitch on March 11, 2015, 02:14:47 PM
Blimey, mate, that escalated quickly!
Yeah; patronising folk will do that
Quote from: jivebunny on March 11, 2015, 02:12:56 PM
Quote from: FeelixTC on March 11, 2015, 02:06:46 PM
Quote from: ScottyStitch on March 11, 2015, 01:57:23 PM
Nobody? The biggest sweeping statement of this whole thread. :smiley-laughing:
Let's do a straw poll then; come on, hands up?
Seems a bit irrelevant to be honest. When you consider that Dapol simply ignore messages and even parcels from unhappy customers who want them to fix a faulty product, it's a bit naïve to think that a message telling them how you spent 30 minutes fixing it yourself will go anywhere other than their Deleted Items folder.
JB
Either of those options is certainly likely to be 100% more productive than bleating about it on a toy train forum.
Quote from: FeelixTC on March 11, 2015, 01:35:45 PM
Quote from: red_death on March 11, 2015, 01:32:58 PM
My point was not necessarily about QC. The example I gave of things becoming loose or mal-aligned in transit is almost impossible to solve - QC, testing and even design (unless you can come up with something radically different) won't necessarily solve those sorts of problems.
Mike
But it's still not the purchasers problem is it?
Actually it is if the expectation is unrealistic! If we are creating an impossible to meet target for the manufacturers then it is partly our problem, particularly if the remedy is within our hands.
No one is suggesting for one minute that people should replace faulty components/blown circuit boards/ start soldering things, but parts that can potentially move in transit the only solutions are don't include them (not really very practical). Just saying not my problem doesn't help anyone. If we can't think of solutions and we know there are problems but expect perfection then we will only be disappointed.
But I agree with Jivebunny - we are so far away from the OP's post now that we are not doing any good.
Quote from: ScottyStitch on March 11, 2015, 02:17:02 PM
Either of those options is certainly likely to be 100% more productive than bleating about it on a toy train forum.
In which case - top right; click that red X
..........or are you just here to be inflamatory?
(http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/52914096.jpg)$
Edit: See?
Quote from: FeelixTC on March 11, 2015, 02:18:44 PM
Quote from: ScottyStitch on March 11, 2015, 02:17:02 PM
Either of those options is certainly likely to be 100% more productive than bleating about it on a toy train forum.
In which case - top right; click that red X
..........or are you just here to be inflamatory?
Jeeze, you're certainly one to bite, aren't you?
(In true pedantic style, I have to advise that I use a Mac, so there is no red 'x' in the top right, okay?)
Okay, here's the thing. No I'm not here to be inflammatory, but the discussion came around to possible ways for easy fixes, where applicable, you know, people actually trying to help. But you and others weren't having any of it. which is fine. But the real issue for you is that it's okay for you to make sweeping generalisations, but when someone challenges you on it, even in a lighthearted way, that, somehow,is not allowed. It's patronising. And remember, I didn't offend you, you TOOK offence.
So grow up and get on with your toy trains.
Happy modelling!
Quote from: Only Me on March 11, 2015, 02:25:51 PM
(https://i.imgflip.com/841pc.jpg)
Thread getting boring now, keep your ranting to yourselves Warrior Men :D
No problem.
Quote from: red_death on March 11, 2015, 02:18:34 PM
............. but expect perfection then we will only be disappointed.
Perhaps then, we could start a thread; "I got lucky; my RTR model worked out of the box!"?
Quote from: ScottyStitch on March 11, 2015, 02:28:49 PM
But the real issue for you is that it's okay for you to make sweeping generalisations, but when someone challenges you on it, even in a lighthearted way, that, somehow,is not allowed. It's patronising. And remember, I didn't offend you, you TOOK offence.
So grow up and get on with your toy trains.
Happy modelling!
No. The patronising came from your personal comments; I don't believe you are a Doctor and you shouldn't, therefore, be prescribing 'pills'. Neither are you my 'mate'
That's enough of the petty sniping I think!
:locked:
Paul