Hello All.
I am wanting to buy an analog N gauge layout i have seen advisted. The set is completely analog at the moment with no insulated sections, however it does have an inner section of track that needs some modification to the wiring as isolation of track sections is not occuring even though insulated points are there. All the points on the layout are controlled from a single board mounted switch panel. Completing the track control is a Gaugemaster D twin-track controller.
So being a total novice how would i go about changing this layout to DCC?
I would like to control the locos from the controller and maybe the points too (x20) if possible?!
Thank you for your help!
Phil
Hi Phil, and welcome to the forum :wave:
'Fraid I'm an old DC fart who knows very little about DCC, but I'm sure some of our experts will be along with some advice very soon.
Hi Phil, :welcomesign:
What you would need to do depends on the size of the layout. What you can do in DCC is to power the whole layout by running a pair of wires around, underneath the baseboard and soldering dropper wires from the track above and connecting to the bus. This makes the whole track live, including any areas that would be switched off by the points. The bus connects to the controller. This also works for DC, but not having isolated sections in DC means you can't leave a loco in a siding and run another round as well. In DCC you can.
Hi Phil and welcome to a great resource of information on everything :ngauge:
Firstly from your description this lay-out is DC operated with various isolated sections, some isolated by points. You have mentioned a Gaugemaster Model D Twin track controller which if fully suitable for a DC lay-out.
To convert to DCC you would have to purchase another controller as the one you have mentioned would not work on a DCC layout.
It may be best to start with, to just stick with the lay-out as DC whilst you gain knowledge from the forum on the pro's and con's of each system. The forum contains a vast wealth of information within the dedicated sections for both systems.
IMHO Lots of reading first will be the order of the day.
Mick
Welcome to the friendly forum Mick Phil, as you've seen on here already, you'll get all the help you need for anything to do with N gauge, remember there is no such thing on here as a silly question, just one you don't currently know the answer to.
:welcomesign:
Hello,
Thank you for the warm welcome and replies.
The layout is 6" x 4" board but only half the board is track.
So out of interested, what would i need to buy if i wanted to go into DCC? I was looking at the bachman controllers?!.
I am guessing if i went DCC, the locos that are with the layout would need to go DCC or wouldnt really work on a full live set?
Thank you
Phil
Quote from: Caz on February 06, 2015, 06:51:30 PM
Welcome to the friendly forum Mick
Thanks Caz, but I've been here a few years. It's Phil who has just joined :-X
Quote from: newportnobby on February 06, 2015, 09:12:35 PM
Quote from: Caz on February 06, 2015, 06:51:30 PM
Welcome to the friendly forum Mick
Thanks Caz, but I've been here a few years. It's Phil who has just joined :-X
:-[ :-[ :-[
Just as a matter of interest, is there any information on how many members on here operate DC and how many DCC. Has there been a Poll on the subject?.
Like Mick I am purely a DC man with no intention of ever going DCC., how many others are like me?.
I am too old to change now, but I can see that younger members first starting in N gauge might want to go straight into DCC. If I can get a suitable sound system operating on my DC layout I will be happy, I dislike dismantling locomotives (for example to add sound chips) as I invariably break something on them.
Quote from: philnotts on February 06, 2015, 07:10:24 PM
Hello,
Thank you for the warm welcome and replies.
The layout is 6" x 4" board but only half the board is track.
So out of interested, what would i need to buy if i wanted to go into DCC? I was looking at the bachman controllers?!.
I am guessing if i went DCC, the locos that are with the layout would need to go DCC or wouldnt really work on a full live set?
Thank you
Phil
Hello and welcome Phil the DCC question which way to go can only answered by yourself but there are a couple of questions to you first, is what kind of control do you want, do you want straight forward DCC so you can run a number of Loco's from just one controller with the option of operating points, or would you like to go down the DCC computer route which can be expensive, but DCC is not cheap as you have to add £20-£30 for each decoder for each Loco and in some cases you have to add 2 decoders.
The ball is in your court, tell us which way and members can advise you on different controllers.
I think i would like to know what i would need if i wanted to go down the DCC route to control the locos and points for now. I am guessing you cant run DC and DCC at the same time :/ ?
Thank you
Phil
A lot of answers here ,but not much solid information. If you want to run a DCC layout you need
a DCC controller and DCC fitted locos, the layout itself doesn't matter , it's suitable for DCC or DC. However if the points are insulated you would need to install extra wiring as DCC eliminates the
need for insulated sections, one of its main advantages apart from sound and lights on locos.
The control of the points is the same for both systems,although in DCC you can get fancy
electronics for this.
You can't easily run DC and DCC on the same layout, too complicated and pointless, no pun
intended! If you want a DCC layout apart from the controller and locos you would have to swap
any insulated points for non insulated , a lot of effort probably not worth the hassle and you
would spend money on a controller you'd have to junk, so better to start from scratch if you
want DCC, otherwise just stick with DC if the layout is a bargain..
Hope this helps!
Hello.
Thank you for the info.
So if i did want to go down the DCC route which controller would be the best suited? (Where i'd ideally want to control all locos and points from it?). Would i need to buy some sort of motor/connection for each point for the new DCC controller?
Thank you again,
Phil
Quote from: Agrippa on February 06, 2015, 11:19:35 PM
A lot of answers here ,but not much solid information. If you want to run a DCC layout you need
a DCC controller and DCC fitted locos, the layout itself doesn't matter , it's suitable for DCC or DC. However if the points are insulated you would need to install extra wiring as DCC eliminates the
need for insulated sections, one of its main advantages apart from sound and lights on locos.
The control of the points is the same for both systems,although in DCC you can get fancy
electronics for this.
You can't easily run DC and DCC on the same layout, too complicated and pointless, no pun
intended! If you want a DCC layout apart from the controller and locos you would have to swap
any insulated points for non insulated , a lot of effort probably not worth the hassle and you
would spend money on a controller you'd have to junk, so better to start from scratch if you
want DCC, otherwise just stick with DC if the layout is a bargain..
Hope this helps!
To me, your answer Agrippa, only goes to confirm my believe that I am better off staying with DC for my layout, and by doing so I will save myself a lot of money and hassle. Most of my DC diesel locomotives already have running lights, and I am about to embark on trying out Train-Techs sound module option on my layout, so that would be some of the advantages of going DCC overcome.
With DCC I know I would be able to do some "shunting" with one engine at the same time as running another locomotive on say a main line, etc., but I don't really want to do that, so that eliminates another advantage.
Just a personal opinion.
Yes Tdm, get your point, apart from sound, and the simplified wiring all depends on how many
trains you want to run at the same time, some people inc myself don't need it. If you want to
do some shunting you can always bring in insulated sections. The Train - Techs system sounds interesting though.
Phil, I'm not an expert on DCC so can't advise on best controller, the question of points is a bit more
complex, apart from Kato ( I think) most points need a separate motor, plus wiring and switching
whether DCC or DC , although it's possible to run a DCC layout from a laptop , but we're moving up
a few levels here! If you're new to DCC and wish to go that route I think I'd go with a basic set up which can be upgraded later . Hopefully other DCC savvy members can help!
The DCC forums on NGF have extensive coverage of the "best " DCC controllers , and advice on locos , wiring etc.
browsing there may raise more questions than answers but that is because Rule 1 applies in DCC as well!
It is more expensive, but is very rewarding in the ability to run a railway without a lot of extra wiring.
BW
Nick R
G'day from Australia, Phil, and welcome to the NGF! :thumbsup:
Any chance of a look at the track plan? It could assist the DCC people in assessing the feasibility of that route.
Hello.
Thank you for your replies. Its been very useful and interesting. I have been reading abut the different DCC controllers too.
As the set DC now and apart from buying the DCC controller and chips for the loco's, how or what else do i need to do with the layout to convert from DC too DCC? I have just been told
"The conversion to DCC would be relatively simple and no problem if you have some knowledge of wiring. The only thing required is moving a few wires about. Basically all you need for DCC is 12 - 15 volts fed to all parts of the track."
Again thank you for all your replies!
Phil
PS.
Sorry i dont have a track plan.
Hi Phill,
Coming in late on this, as I just posted on your "build or buy" thread ...
There's some good advice in this thread. However, if you do a search of the site, you'll see we get an awful lot of "what controller should I use" questions. This is a very hard one to answer !!!
As there are a range of different control types, you're best off finding which of those styles you like (and which you hate); then you can tailor your questions against the controllers of that type. Eg some are along the lines of a PlayStation/Xbox handset; others along the lines of a chunky video remote; others still are base-units you stand at. Head to a decent Show (you don't say where in the country you are, so we can't suggest any), and play with the various ones there.
As far as DC/DCC - in theory just plugging in a DCC controller instead of the DC controller will work. In practice, it depends on the way the builder did the wiring, and you will need to check it all out very carefully !!! Don't rely on anyone else to do this.
You may end up with harder work re-using someone else's layout than making your own ...
Mike