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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Agrippa on January 17, 2015, 10:34:01 AM

Title: Churchill funeral train
Post by: Agrippa on January 17, 2015, 10:34:01 AM
One of Hornby's OO products is Sir Winston Churchill's funeral train.Seems a bit of an
extravagance as you could only run it once..... ;D.
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: d-a-n on January 17, 2015, 11:19:37 AM
In the same vein, maybe Farish should do a set consisting of 46009, three mk1s and a nuclear flask wagon...
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: crewearpley40 on January 17, 2015, 02:04:47 PM
note the article in the January railway modeller
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: Newportnobby on January 17, 2015, 02:36:28 PM
Quote from: Agrippa on January 17, 2015, 10:34:01 AM
One of Hornby's OO products is Sir Winston Churchill's funeral train.Seems a bit of an
extravagance as you could only run it once..... ;D.

Unless of course it's repeated on the 'Yesterday' channel :laugh:
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: Mr Sprue on January 17, 2015, 08:19:11 PM
God that really makes me feel kinda old,  :worried: as I can still remember as a youngster actually watching that all unfold on TV back in the sixties  ...... Black and white of course!

Wasn't it Waterloo station the train departed from?
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: MalcolmInN on January 17, 2015, 08:25:34 PM
Quote from: Mr Sprue on January 17, 2015, 08:19:11 PM
God that really makes me feel kinda old,  :worried:
Thee an'me both :(
What a strange macabre thing to want to model ?
I mean 00 ?? !

Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: Agrippa on January 17, 2015, 08:27:57 PM
 :laughabovepost:
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: Mr Sprue on January 17, 2015, 08:44:00 PM
Quote from: MalcolmAL on January 17, 2015, 08:25:34 PM
Quote from: Mr Sprue on January 17, 2015, 08:19:11 PM
God that really makes me feel kinda old,  :worried:
Thee an'me both :(
What a strange macabre thing to want to model ?
I mean 00 ?? !

Hmmm......yes I see what you mean, but then again Churchill was a very big man, so I guess Hornby with this in mind decided it would require a cumbersome gauge for this model!  :)
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: Bealman on January 17, 2015, 09:27:16 PM
Yeah, I remember watching that on telly. That January RM has some good info, though, and a great picture of the actual train hauled by spam can Sir Winston Churchill.
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: Geoff on January 17, 2015, 09:50:35 PM
Why would you want a funeral train, I know a lot of dead boddies use to get transported on trains but hey come on we have a hobby, I like the way things are "Living"
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: MalcolmInN on January 17, 2015, 10:28:51 PM
Quote from: d-a-n on January 17, 2015, 11:19:37 AM
In the same vein, maybe Farish should do a set consisting of 46009, three mk1s and a nuclear flask wagon...
!! :)
gosh that is moving on a year or two !

But reminds me ,  something I was thinking a while ago,
what did they transport nuclear materials in after (dont mention it) the war.
Hands up who remembers superMac's drive for the bomb ?
Who remembers the unholy speed with which the so called nuclear electricity reactors (free electricity ha!) were built, not long after ?Windscale1 was built, to produce plutonium etc for that bomb industry
and it later went up in smoke in a reactor fire that no one mentions before Chernobyl ?

Did steam locos carry nuclear materials in embryo flasks ?

Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: Agrippa on January 17, 2015, 10:46:48 PM
Quote from: MalcolmAL on January 17, 2015, 10:28:51 PM
what did they transport nuclear materials in after (dont mention it) the war.

They probably used old gunpowder vans repainted with "Weapons grade material on board
not to be loose shunted ".
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: Railwaygun on January 17, 2015, 11:11:54 PM
Quote from: Geoff on January 17, 2015, 09:50:35 PM
Why would you want a funeral train, I know a lot of dead boddies use to get transported on trains but hey come on we have a hobby, I like the way things are "Living"

there was the special Funeral line from Waterloo to Brookwood

http://www.tbcs.org.uk/railway.htm (http://www.tbcs.org.uk/railway.htm)

First and Second class bodies ( and mourners)

Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: MalcolmInN on January 17, 2015, 11:12:23 PM
Quote from: Agrippa on January 17, 2015, 10:46:48 PM
They probably used old gunpowder vans repainted with "Weapons grade material on board
not to be loose shunted ".
Sounds reasonable :)
,
hehee perish the thought,
have you been reading Richard Feynman and others about carrying stuff round on the back seats of their cars and  "tweaking the tail of the dragon" ! ?
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: Geoff on January 17, 2015, 11:22:02 PM
Quote from: Railwaygun on January 17, 2015, 11:11:54 PM
Quote from: Geoff on January 17, 2015, 09:50:35 PM
Why would you want a funeral train, I know a lot of dead boddies use to get transported on trains but hey come on we have a hobby, I like the way things are "Living"

there was the special Funeral line from Waterloo to Brookwood

http://www.tbcs.org.uk/railway.htm (http://www.tbcs.org.uk/railway.htm)

First and Second class bodies ( and mourners)

Yep I think I watched one of Michael Portillo,s programme which mentioned the specially built stations, very strange.
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: Bealman on January 18, 2015, 01:26:42 AM
There is a beautifully preserved sandstone funeral platform and building just south of the terminating platforms at Sydney's central station here in NSW.
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: crewearpley40 on January 22, 2015, 09:43:45 AM
theres an article in the January edition : the railway magazine
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: d-a-n on January 24, 2015, 01:07:49 PM
Just been reading 'Western Diesels in camera' by J.A.M Vaughn and it says D1015 Western Champion pulled the Pullmans on the return journey from Handborough to Paddington. If only Dapol and Hornby got together for the ultimate scraping the barrel, money spinner!
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: Railwaygun on March 25, 2015, 10:23:17 PM
I have just visited the NRM and the Churchill Funeral Train is represented there by the Winston Churchill, 1x Pullman car and the Bier / Hearse waggon

[smg id=23322 type=preview align=center caption="IMG 1832"]

[smg id=23323 type=preview align=center caption="IMG 1825"]

[smg id=23324 type=preview align=center caption="IMG 1824"]

[smg id=23325 type=preview align=center caption="IMG 1827"]

The restoration work at Shildon

http://tinyurl.com/qamsq6g (http://tinyurl.com/qamsq6g)

Will try and sort out the images - they are the right way up on my iPad!! - My Mac fixed this but ?? why it happens (randomly)

Nick R
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: GroupC on March 26, 2015, 08:24:01 AM
I just thought you'd gone to the NRM's Australian branch.
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: Bob Tidbury on March 26, 2015, 12:05:34 PM
OSBORNS Models are doing a Dapol siphon and overlays to make the coffin wagon. Does any one know which type of Pulman coaches made up the train formation and the names of the coaches please.
Bob
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: Karhedron on March 26, 2015, 01:38:16 PM
Details of the funeral train formation can be found here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Battle_of_Britain_class_21C151_Winston_Churchill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Battle_of_Britain_class_21C151_Winston_Churchill)

I think that the Pullman coaches are the steel-sided ones so slightly different to the old Poole-Farish coaches but they might be close enough for Rule #1. The current Mk1 pullman coaches are definitely the wrong sort though.

The forthcoming Farish Bogie van might be a better match for the hearse van although some repainting will be required.
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: Karhedron on March 26, 2015, 01:51:23 PM
Just checked, the stock was not a consistent diagram of vehicle. Pullman kitchen-parlour car Carina was a 1951 steel-sided vehicle while Pullman kitchen-parlour car Lydia was a much older 1928 vehicle (that probably would match the old Farish ones).
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: acko22 on March 26, 2015, 06:27:10 PM
While it is morbid, I can see why it has been done.

The Burial train for Sir Winston Churchill is one of the most significant world evens the railways has been involved in since the send of the second world war even up to today.
While way before my time my dad remembers his death and says there was a sense of loss even though my dad was a post war baby.

I am a little tempted to buy it, but I would rather model the train which carried the Unknown Warrior from Dover to London  in a South Eastern and Chatham Railways General Utility Van No.132
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: steve836 on March 27, 2015, 10:12:27 AM
Quote from: Bealman on January 18, 2015, 01:26:42 AM
There is a beautifully preserved sandstone funeral platform and building just south of the terminating platforms at Sydney's central station here in NSW.

I assume it's a dead end rather than a through platform! :D
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: Bealman on March 27, 2015, 10:44:18 AM
If you want to get in there, you gotta do a few shunting manouvers that hopefully  I'm not ready for yet  ;)
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: Agrippa on March 27, 2015, 11:06:04 AM
Just remember you only need a single ticket.....
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: Newportnobby on March 27, 2015, 04:57:29 PM
Quote from: Agrippa on March 27, 2015, 11:06:04 AM
Just remember you only need a single ticket.....

.........to the dead centre of the city
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: steve836 on March 28, 2015, 10:06:24 AM
No hurry - all the passengers are late already
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: Agrippa on March 31, 2015, 05:31:23 PM
Going Underground?
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: steve836 on March 31, 2015, 07:08:44 PM
Upinsmoke will love this :D
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: acko22 on March 31, 2015, 07:10:07 PM
The next train terminates here!
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: Agrippa on March 31, 2015, 11:48:46 PM
At Gravesend, don't know if it has a station...
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: acko22 on March 31, 2015, 11:53:06 PM
Not sure if it does either, but its all one way traffic!
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: MalcolmInN on April 01, 2015, 12:07:22 AM
Quote from: Agrippa on March 31, 2015, 11:48:46 PM
At Gravesend, don't know if it has a station...

:laughabovepost:

Quote from: acko22 on March 31, 2015, 11:53:06 PM
Not sure if it does either, but its all one way traffic!

:laughabovepost:
Quote from: acko22 on March 26, 2015, 06:27:10 PM
While way before my time my dad remembers his death and says there was a sense of loss even though my dad was a post war baby.
Hmmm, well I remember his death,
but I also remember him standing on the steps of Downing street in his funny trousers (knickerbockers?) and garters and morning suit so pleased with himself on his post war reincarnation,
and later feeling no sense of loss whatsoever, silly old bat !
(ASIDE : even though I only really became politically aware in the time of Eden, Suez (super)Mac and Profumo)

So I suppose that makes me old enough to be your Dad, or perish the thought, Grandad even !!

Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: acko22 on April 01, 2015, 12:13:26 AM

So I suppose that makes me old enough to be your Dad, or perish the thought, Grandad even !!
[/quote]

Well going to be nice and not reply  :-X

What year was suez again? Well before my time  :laugh3:
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: MalcolmInN on April 01, 2015, 12:18:45 AM
Quote from: acko22 on April 01, 2015, 12:13:26 AM
What year was suez again? Well before my time  :laugh3:
:laugh:
I forget,
nurse, nurse,,,,
'56, thereabouts ?
(EDIT yep '56, a good thing about getting old in the age of the interweb, one does not need to remember, google and wiki can do it all for you one , sigh , , , /EDIT )

And another thing, one begins to feel old when people like Randy Mice Davies ("well he would say that, wouldn't he " ) dies  - - - :(

Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: acko22 on April 01, 2015, 12:24:48 AM
OK 56' the year my mother was born, so I think we can say Grandad!   :D

While I may be younger I am starting to get the feeling of old when young Pte soldiers turning up were in Primary school still when I went to Iraq and well I joined some 2 weeks over 12 years ago.

AS we say they were in the play ground while I was in the dead ground!
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: MalcolmInN on April 01, 2015, 12:36:41 AM
Ok Granson, hehee !
Gosh, yes, puts it all in perspective ! So much history in such short time.
I am one of those who can consider themselves lucky that we did not have to go to war. (although the consequences of if we had had to would , , , well lets not go there, macabre tho the orig subjet was ! )

Mind you, if you want to debate the idiocy of the Churchillian years viz á viz those of our more recent commanders be my gues,,, hmmm, maybe in another forum some place ! ? !! ,,,
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: acko22 on April 01, 2015, 12:42:02 AM
Quote from: MalcolmAL on April 01, 2015, 12:36:41 AM
Mind you, if you want to debate the idiocy of the Churchillian years viz á viz those of our more recent commanders be my gues,,, hmmm, maybe in another forum some place ! ? !! ,,,

I think time team may be better  :P

All I will say is at least Churchill appreciated letting the military do military things and not getting politics mixed in with military.
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: MalcolmInN on April 01, 2015, 12:54:06 AM
Quote from: acko22 on April 01, 2015, 12:42:02 AM
I think time team may be better  :P
Oi! I'm not dead yet !

QuoteAll I will say is at least Churchill appreciated letting the military do military things and not getting politics mixed in with military.
Oh now you do provoke me, never was there such a political animal, just count how many times he crossed the floor of the house, not to mention his ancestry, his histories ( I mean his books), he was forever messing with his commanders, not to mention his machinations with the Americans,
sad is that he lost the plot with the power of the empire, notwithstanding it coming to an end  the rise of Gandhi etc anyway ( cue (super)Mac and the "winds of change".
Follow Churchill campaigns in the Boer ("envigorating to be shot at without effect") war etc and laters, , , a whole different aspect to his (?) fortunate victory over Germany.

/provoke !!!!

Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: acko22 on April 01, 2015, 12:58:12 AM
OK maybe time team a little pre-emptive!

I will rephrase the Messing with Military, he never tired to tell the men on the ground how to do their job! Maybe higher up, but that's what Generals are there for!
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: MalcolmInN on April 01, 2015, 01:11:23 AM
Quote from: acko22 on April 01, 2015, 12:58:12 AM
OK maybe time team a little pre-emptive!
:)
no worries :) no fences taken hehee,
Quote
I will rephrase the Messing with Military, he never tired to tell the men on the ground how to do their job! Maybe higher up, but that's what Generals are there for!
Ah yes,  see what you mean, I agree totally, he let them carry on on the ground, then replaced them if/when necessary. Good point.
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: acko22 on April 01, 2015, 01:17:41 AM
Well Malcolm I thik after our off topic comments it is time to get back on topic and expire that bit.

Derail it off the tracks of life (every pun intended  :P) and back to funeral trains
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: MalcolmInN on April 01, 2015, 01:34:53 AM
Yes I think so, thanks for interesting discuss (dont worry, I think they are all in bed anyway lol!)
meanwhile I've been counting backwards, on my fingers, from '56 and yes it is poss. but I dont think they were as precocious in those days as they are today, but who knows :) :) ? ! no doubt there were exceptions :)
thanks and best wishes / g'night :)

Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: Agrippa on April 01, 2015, 01:43:59 AM
Not sure what this post means  , but too late to fouture it ig.......
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: Railwaygun on May 04, 2015, 06:27:33 PM
Osborne's do a Conversion kit for the bier wagon

http://www.osbornsmodels.com/archn0019-conversion-kit-for-dapol-siphon-g-maunsell-van-b-s2464s-as-converted-for-sir-winston-churchills-funeral-33378-p.asp (http://www.osbornsmodels.com/archn0019-conversion-kit-for-dapol-siphon-g-maunsell-van-b-s2464s-as-converted-for-sir-winston-churchills-funeral-33378-p.asp)
Title: Re: Churchill funeral train
Post by: acko22 on May 13, 2015, 12:25:34 PM
Good spot,

Me thinks it could be an interesting side project