N Gauge Forum

Hey all

Im new to n gauge and to railways since I was 7 and had a OO hornby railway... so  its all new...

Do all N gauge regardless of make and brand work on N gauge railways? The reason im asking is that on eBay I see a lot of '@make@  compatible so it makes me wonder if some brands don't work with controller/track and others do!
;D
What is the best way to do it? Buy a starter kit? Ive seen kits With engine and a loop of track or buy it separately?

One last thing, I have a bad dust allergy so how do guys keep the dust off your railway sets? a dyson which i have will pull up everything  pva glued or not!

Any help would be good to a newcomer

Thanks

C J BEATTIE

G'day from Australia, and welcome to the NGF!  :thumbsup:

Addressing your initial question, the answer is yes - all N gauge locos will run on N gauge track, regardless of brand of loco or track.

However, things are not quite that simple - you need to decide if you are going to run DC or the latest method of operating trains - DCC (Digital Command Control). Also if you are going to run British prototype, then you have only a choice of three major brands - Graham Farish by Bachmann, Dapol, or Union Mills. American and Japanese prototypes are from other companies, Kato being one of the most respected. Continental models are produced by a number of European based companies.

Regarding track, Peco is a major player, but there are other brands - Kato produce a very user-friendly plug and play track system which is gaining popularity among forum members.

For a total beginner, a starter set is probably the best way to go, and there are many available from most manufacturers. Don't be in a mad rush to jump in - have a good read of the stuff here on the forum (the search function is useful in that regard).

We're a friendly (if slightly mad) bunch here, and one thing's for sure - you are guaranteed to get heaps of answers to your questions, so don't be afraid to ask away!

Once again, welcome to the NGF!  :thumbsup:

I personally have never found a problem with mix and match at one time or another I have run Arnold, Fleischmann, mini trix ,lima, graham farish, dapol, and peco all mixed up with no problems.

As to starting out if a starter set has the loco you like in it it is as good away as any to start and usually works out cheaper than buying all the bits separately.

That's my 2 peneth worth I am sure you will get much more advice from other helpful members.

BTW  welcome to the forum and to n gauge modelling.  :NGaugersRule:

One thing to be careful of is the radius of track curves you use on your layout, very tightly curved track can cause problems for (mainly) larger steam locos.

One advantage of sets is that the track and loco supplied will be compatible. They are also good value for money as they are often subsidised by the manufacturer to entice newcomers into the hobby.

:welcomesign:

Quote from: Bealman on January 12, 2015, 03:12:00 AMWe're a friendly (if slightly mad) bunch here

What do you mean, "slightly mad"?  :hmmm:

Anyway, to add to the above, in general mix'n'match is in general no problem; I run Farish, Dapol, Tomix, Kato, Modemo and Microace trains all on Kato/Tomix track from a Kato controller.

One other thing to watch out for is that OO-gauge controllers may not be suitable for N-gauge motors, but if you stick to ones known as suitable for N-gauge you should be fine.

Good point.  :thumbsup:

Stay away from feedback controllers also.

(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-whacky110.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

Slightly mad - if only :laugh3:

Seriously though welcome to the Funny Farm Forum from another Downunder.

I've mixed n matched stuff for most of my modelling life without too many issues, but then the quality has been improving over the years so everything now seems so much easier to mix. I run Rule 1 locos (Rule 1 - its my layout - I do what I like!) and over the last couple of years have become a Kato Unitrack fan for my track requirements.

DC or DCC is probably the big decision, and there's loads of advice/opinions here. Me. I've been a DCC fan for years and cant imagine ever using DC  for my layout. Speak to a local dealer or guys at a local exhibition to get a good cross view of detail before saying goodbye to your cash.

Whatever your choice, whatever you run, there'll always be someone here to offer advice - as advanced or simple as you want.

The one thing we all have in common ...... not deep enough pockets !

For the dust issue, I lob a sheet over my layout. Obviously consideration of potential fragility of that over which it is being thrown is required. I put springy doorstops on the corners of my layout to try and negate that. I did used to have a very light plastic dust sheet... wonder where I put it...  :-[

Hello CJ, and welcome to the N Gauge Laughing Academy Forum :wave:

I'd suggest you start small and add to/hone any skills you have with electrickery, scenery etc before planning anything too big.
If you need to negotiate the space available with anyone else do it now or you end up dreaming of a monster layout. Then try to find a track plan that does what you want it to and which will fit into the (negotiated) space.
Take a deep breath, have a glass of your favourite drink and then seek further advice from our collective. The forum does save you time and money!

Thanks for the warm welcome guys and advice...

Ja I been reading up on dcc and dc and it sounds brilliant compared to my old train set when I was a kid where u could just have one train running on a line.. I think the set was made by 'mainline' a hornby rival shows how old I am lol

Kept my engine from then though an old 00 steam engine catching dust in the cupboard...

I have been looking at this to start with

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370-110-Depo-Master-Train-Set-Starter-Model-Rail-Graham-Farish-/171479712199?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item27ecfcc1c7 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370-110-Depo-Master-Train-Set-Starter-Model-Rail-Graham-Farish-/171479712199?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item27ecfcc1c7)

And then maybe get a few second hand engines to go with from eBay..I have aspergers so don't work so money is an issue but it seems the biggest problem is the engines and track everything else dosn't look that bad for price.. Could I add a dcc controller at a later date to this? If the kit comes with a dc?

Is there any set backs apart from warranty obviously with buying second hand engine? Do these motors have a set life span or what? Sorry for stupid questions just goto make sure before I make the plunge..

And once again thanks for the warm welcome

Craig  :ngauge:

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 12, 2015, 01:16:56 PM
Thanks for the warm welcome guys and advice...

Ja I been reading up on dcc and dc and it sounds brilliant compared to my old train set when I was a kid where u could just have one train running on a line.. I think the set was made by 'mainline' a hornby rival shows how old I am lol

Meh, my Mainline trainset was the third one I got (following on from some rather mediocre Lima sets), now where's my free bus pass?

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 12, 2015, 01:16:56 PMKept my engine from then though an old 00 steam engine catching dust in the cupboard...

Not a green 4-6-0 by any chance?

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 12, 2015, 01:16:56 PM
I have been looking at this to start with

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370-110-Depo-Master-Train-Set-Starter-Model-Rail-Graham-Farish-/171479712199?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item27ecfcc1c7 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370-110-Depo-Master-Train-Set-Starter-Model-Rail-Graham-Farish-/171479712199?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item27ecfcc1c7)

And then maybe get a few second hand engines to go with from eBay..I have aspergers so don't work so money is an issue but it seems the biggest problem is the engines and track everything else dosn't look that bad for price.. Could I add a dcc controller at a later date to this? If the kit comes with a dc?

You can convert to DCC at a later date; however if your locomotive(s) don't have a DCC socket, it's trickier to install the DCC chip (not impossible, apparently, just tricky).

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 12, 2015, 01:16:56 PMIs there any set backs apart from warranty obviously with buying second hand engine? Do these motors have a set life span or what? Sorry for stupid questions just goto make sure before I make the plunge..

I wouldn't classify myself as an expert (I only acquired my first N-gauge train about 6 months ago), but as far as I'm aware, motors are usually pretty robust (here's an interesting page on the subject (http://sumidacrossing.org/LayoutElectricity/ModelTrainPower/DCTrainMotors/) I came across the other day). With older Farish motive power units you need to watch out for a phenomenon known as "split gears", though personally I have yet to experience that problem despite having a couple of 2nd-hand locos.

The loco with that set is DC, some locos can be converted , but I don't know about that one,
I've a feeling it's not. The set is DC, and you could switch to DCC in the future,however to
get several DCC ready locos and the DCC controller would be quite costly.

With s/h engines a bit like s/h cars, you could get a bargain or a dud. If buying
s/h probably best to get one from an established dealer then the warranty should
cover you for a reasonable time. If you buy one from a private seller it could run fine
then pack in a week later and you'd have little chance of a refund. Prices of s/h stuff
are mentioned elsewhere on the forum and a few members including myself
think these are high compared with new guaranteed stuff.

I don't know what the lifespan of a motor is, maybe someone else knows,
but with careful use should be reasonable, with s/h though it could have
5 hours or 50 hours use and unlike cars there's no mileometer!

Hope this helps!

Hi CJ and  :welcomesign:

You have been given some very sound advice already and before going after that set on eBay, have a shop around the various online shops as you may find it cheaper  :thumbsup:

I use Kato Unitrack and for a beginner it is very much plug and play, the points all have the motors fitted so adding some points to your layout is as simple as adding extra track.

However do have a good read and don't be in a rush to open your wallet, bounce any possible purchases on the forum and our members will help you make the cheapest decision  ;)

cheers John.

I will thanks john...

already shopping around to see if i can get it cheaper..

if i bought some  Kato track would i be able to add to the existing tracK? if the existing track isnt kato? it seems cheaper than peco (for some reason)..

Ill stick to DC for now until i get my footing then change.. DCC really dos sound a huge step up though as in controlling your trains etc..

once again thanks for your help guys

Craig

Hi Craig,

You can use Kato Unitrack with other types of track, Kato do a conversion piece to facilitate this.

http://www.traintrax.co.uk/20045-snap-track-conversion-track-p-282.html (http://www.traintrax.co.uk/20045-snap-track-conversion-track-p-282.html)

If you did buy an oval of Kato Unitrack and decided it was not for you, then you could always use it for a running in track for any new locos you may purchase in the future.  There are many options you could follow.

cheers John.

Hey i just wondered is there a dcc train set starter set for sale anywhere in N gauge and from uk? that would save alot of hassle in the end and having to convert later on.. If the DCC controller etc were aleady there.. and save me money in the long run..

looked on ebay but cant find one..

jesus train sets use to be easy theres so much stuff out there now its a mine field to newcomers

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 12, 2015, 05:26:50 PM
Hey i just wondered is there a dcc train set starter set for sale anywhere in N gauge and from uk? that would save alot of hassle in the end and having to convert later on.. If the DCC controller etc were aleady there.. and save me money in the long run..

looked on ebay but cant find one..

jesus train sets use to be easy theres so much stuff out there now its a mine field to newcomers

Graham Farish do a couple http://www.grahamfarish.co.uk/prod1.php?prod_selected=farish&prod=0 (http://www.grahamfarish.co.uk/prod1.php?prod_selected=farish&prod=0)

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 12, 2015, 05:26:50 PM
Hey i just wondered is there a dcc train set starter set for sale anywhere in N gauge and from uk? that would save alot of hassle in the end and having to convert later on.. If the DCC controller etc were aleady there.. and save me money in the long run..

looked on ebay but cant find one..

jesus train sets use to be easy theres so much stuff out there now its a mine field to newcomers

Dapol do one too http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=177_59_278 (http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=177_59_278)

thanks austinbob

that looks very nice indeed..

http://www.grahamfarish.co.uk/image_box.php?image=images1/farish/370-080.jpg&cat_no=370-080&info=209&width=600&height=424 (http://www.grahamfarish.co.uk/image_box.php?image=images1/farish/370-080.jpg&cat_no=370-080&info=209&width=600&height=424)

cheaper here

http://www.ehattons.com/stocklist/1000589/1000699/N_Gauge_Train_sets_DCC/prodlistbyscaleandtype.aspx (http://www.ehattons.com/stocklist/1000589/1000699/N_Gauge_Train_sets_DCC/prodlistbyscaleandtype.aspx)

hold on a minute if with DCC you can run multiple trains on the same line isnt collisions possible then? :confused1:

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 12, 2015, 05:37:09 PM
thanks austinbob

that looks very nice indeed..

http://www.grahamfarish.co.uk/image_box.php?image=images1/farish/370-080.jpg&cat_no=370-080&info=209&width=600&height=424 (http://www.grahamfarish.co.uk/image_box.php?image=images1/farish/370-080.jpg&cat_no=370-080&info=209&width=600&height=424)

hold on a minute if with DCC you can run multiple trains on the same line isnt collisions possible then? :confused1:

Yup -  but you're driving and you can adjust the speed of all the trains. You can also make sure, like in real life, that only one train is running on one stretch of track at a time. Your DCC set up would allow you, for example. to run a train on each of an inside and outside loop while shunting another in the sidings.
???

wow dcc really has transformed things from the old 'mainline' days.. shunting while running another  :claphappy:

the old mainline train which i still have for someone who asked earlier is a wee green 6 wheeled thing with the number 3205 not sure what type it is.. just kept it for sentimental reasons i guess..

so with the above set if i bought it the dcc controller with that set would be compatible with any dcc engine i bought then? Gonna have a word with my other half tonight about the price  ::)

wish me luck ! lol

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 12, 2015, 05:50:08 PM
wow dcc really has transformed things from the old 'mainline' days.. shunting while running another  :claphappy:
so with the above set if i bought it the dcc controller with that set would be compatible with any dcc engine i bought then? Gonna have a word with my other half tonight about the price  ::)

wish me luck ! lol

Generally that's right - you should be able to use any NRMA standard controller with any NRMA standard DCC chipped loco. I think the Farish and Dapol sets I've pointed you towards should be ok in this respect. I'm not a DCC man myself - I use a DC layout and there are probably hundreds of people on this forum who could give you much better informed advice on DCC. It might be worth reading a couple of books about DCC to give you more insight about what DCC is and what it can do.
I couple of books I have found useful are 'Digital Command Control - the definitive guide' by Ian Morton and  'A practical introduction to Digital command control for railway modellers' by Nigel Burkin.

Good luck with the other half on explaining the outlay!!
:beers:

thanks bob

may i ask why you never moved to dcc? watched a few videos on utube regarding it and it looks amazing the control one has compared to what it use to be..

Im hoping that controller will run all the dcc engines i buy.. i will test with a cheap second hand one first

thanks for the good luck word! ill need it i think, i think my other half see's it as a complete waste of money..   :laugh:

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 12, 2015, 06:25:43 PM
may i ask why you never moved to dcc? watched a few videos on utube regarding it and it looks amazing the control one has compared to what it use to be..

The main reason I haven't gone DCC is I don't feel the need to run several trains at once. Before I moved to N gauge I used to model in EM gauge (similar to OO but with a more realistic track gauge) and everything was DC at that time. I'm an Electronics Engineer so I don't have any problems with the extra wiring that DC operation sometimes involves. Also - and this is probably an age thing - I find flicking switches to isolate locos on a DC system, rather than pushing buttons to control each loco, very satisfying.
There's no doubt though - DCC has a lot going for it. As I said in my previous post - read up about DCC before you make your decision. DC or DCC you're sure to have a lot of fun!

Quote from: austinbob on January 12, 2015, 06:02:41 PM
Generally that's right - you should be able to use any NRMA standard controller with any NRMA standard DCC chipped loco.

By the way that should be the NMRA standard - too many glasses of Chardonnay!!

Stay off the pop during the day bob  :laugh3:

When did this digital revolution start by the way? looking on ebay and other sites there seems to be more locos without dcc than with..will a non dcc loco work with a dcc controller?

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 12, 2015, 07:34:15 PM
Stay off the pop during the day bob  :laugh3:

When did this digital revolution start by the way? looking on ebay and other sites there seems to be more locos without dcc than with..will a non dcc loco work with a dcc controller?

Must be 15 years plus -but things have moved on very fast in the last few years and sizes an costs have come right down. - He says sipping next glass of Chardonnay.

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 12, 2015, 07:34:15 PM
will a non dcc loco work with a dcc controller?

As I understand it, no it won't and it is a very bad idea to try as it isn't good for the motor.

If you want a DCC starter set the Dapol ones are very good, the Gaugemaster controller I think has more features than the DCC controller that you get in the Bachmann sets and is more easily upgraded.

But you might be better going to a shop that has several DCC systems (maybe not in N gauge) that you can try to see if there's one you prefer.  There's no point choosing a system just because it comes with a train set if you find it difficult to use.

thanks john..

because of space it has to be N gauge... AS for dcc was thinking about what bob said and why he dosnt bother changing to dcc.. To have more than one train running? and other wee quirks u get with dcc but it seems by getting dcc you actually cut off a big chunk of potential stock i.e engines etc.. or what you can get second hand anyways...

There are not many locos that come 'DCC fitted' i.e. they already contain the chip. There are many locos that are 'DCC ready' and they are fitted with a blanking plug to enable running on DC. The idea is you run the loco in on DC, remove the blanking plug and then fit the chip of your choice rather than a factory fitted one. (note, however, this invalidates the warranty)
However, there are many old DC farts like me who have a large collection of DC locos from the stone age which would cost a small fortune to fit chips to or, even worse, pay someone else to do it.
However, with DC it is perfectly possible to have trains running on loops whilst shunting etc is carried out and that's enough to keep me happy :)

Quote from: newportnobby on January 12, 2015, 09:45:18 PM
There are not many locos that come 'DCC fitted' i.e. they already contain the chip. There are many locos that are 'DCC ready' and they are fitted with a blanking plug to enable running on DC. The idea is you run the loco in on DC, remove the blanking plug and then fit the chip of your choice rather than a factory fitted one. (note, however, this invalidates the warranty)
However, there are many old DC farts like me who have a large collection of DC locos from the stone age which would cost a small fortune to fit chips to or, even worse, pay someone else to do it.
However, with DC it is perfectly possible to have trains running on loops whilst shunting etc is carried out and that's enough to keep me happy :)

Spot on but as I said before it would be worth him reading up about dcc before deciding what to do.

Hi CJB,
Apart from a foray into N gauge back in the 80's when I used Peco track,I haven't had a model railway although one was always "in the planning stage"....aren't they always!!/.
Anyway a month or so ago I joined this site and not wanting to be bothered about Code 80 or 100 or insulfrog or electrogfrog points and seep point motors etc etc which meant that I was never going to get started I asked the members on here about any simple "plug and play" and was referred to Kato track,look earlier on the site to a pinned topic,....it may assist.
Anyway I bought the M2 Kato pack and it is excellent,in my opinion if as I am you are pretty clueless about electrics and dont have weeks just to plan lay nd wire up etc. a simple junction,although that is exactly what appeals to some people.
Hope you enjoy the site,you should do,I am.
Rheingold

Can't you get a Farish train set already DCC fitted? Or did I just dream that.

Quote from: Bealman on January 12, 2015, 10:24:16 PM
Can't you get a Farish train set already DCC fitted? Or did I just dream that.

Yes. We've already been there Bealman. Check earlier in this thread. ???

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 12, 2015, 06:25:43 PM
thanks bob

may i ask why you never moved to dcc? watched a few videos on utube regarding it and it looks amazing the control one has compared to what it use to be..

Im hoping that controller will run all the dcc engines i buy.. i will test with a cheap second hand one first

thanks for the good luck word! ill need it i think, i think my other half see's it as a complete waste of money..   :laugh:

Hi cj,

Welcome to the forum.  I am by no means an expert as I am a relative newcomer myself and I had to take down my first layout because my other half wanted the conservatory back!  For some reason she didn't appreciate my 8 foot by 4 foot baseboards taking up all that space!

Does your other half like any sorts of crafting e.g. Card Making etc?  If she does then you might be able to make use of her skills when it comes to scenery etc.  Mine got quite excited when I showed her the Metcalfe kits that I had bought and ended up building quite a few for me.  So much so that every time we go near a model shop she now says lets have a look to see what Metcalfe kits are in stock!!

I am a DC man too and managed to build a layout where I could run 3 trains at the same time.  2 going round and round on the inner and outer loops and a 3rd doing shunting in the yard.  I think I could possibly have got a 4th one running in the fiddle yard, but I couldn't multi task that much by myself.

Some of the layouts on here are awesome.  Good luck with yours.

Simon

Quote from: austinbob on January 12, 2015, 10:39:10 PM

Quote from: Bealman on January 12, 2015, 10:24:16 PM
Can't you get a Farish train set already DCC fitted? Or did I just dream that.

Yes. We've already been there Bealman. Check earlier in this thread. ???

Yes, thanks for that, Bob... I'm just having an Antipodian brain you-know-what  :-[

Thanks for your replys simon and Rheingold and everyone else

do you have 3 controllers simon? how did you run 3 lines at once? or am i thinking back in the 80's again lol

Ja simon the thing with my other half i get the impression that she thinks im being a child or something, when i explain to her its much more than just watching a toy train around the track, there is points, shunting etc etc etc she sees none of that.. and on top of that MONEY Of course lol when i told her the intial kit will be around 150 pounds and engines are around 50 to 80 pounds each there was a long silence.. Hey i looked at the metcalfe kits they look brilliant! and not too expensive either.. love the engine sheds.. Ill try and slyly reel her in by getting her to make some for me lol..

Read alot about DCC now and DC and pros and cons either side.. The big let down for DCC is the number of engines and that it wont run dc engines without potentially damaging them so that limits... The lights and running multiple trains on the same line is very appealing but not at the cost of the creativity and creating the world/set..

Thanks to everyone who has gave me advice its been very interesting...

Craig

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 13, 2015, 12:10:37 AM
Thanks for your replys simon and Rheingold and everyone else

do you have 3 controllers simon? how did you run 3 lines at once? or am i thinking back in the 80's again lol

Ja simon the thing with my other half i get the impression that she thinks im being a child or something, when i explain to her its much more than just watching a toy train around the track, there is points, shunting etc etc etc she sees none of that.. and on top of that MONEY Of course lol when i told her the intial kit will be around 150 pounds and engines are around 50 to 80 pounds each there was a long silence.. Hey i looked at the metcalfe kits they look brilliant! and not too expensive either.. love the engine sheds.. Ill try and slyly reel her in by getting her to make some for me lol..

Read alot about DCC now and DC and pros and cons either side.. The big let down for DCC is the number of engines and that it wont run dc engines without potentially damaging them so that limits... The lights and running multiple trains on the same line is very appealing but not at the cost of the creativity and creating the world/set..

Thanks to everyone who has gave me advice its been very interesting...

Craig

I have a Gaugemaster unit with 4 controls - I picked it up from my local model shop about 2 years ago now.  I got it for a bargain £90!

Most of my engines have been bought off eBay and I try not to pay more than £45 each including postage if possible.  I actually spent my Christmas money today and bought 3 engines all from the same seller.  I got an EWS Class 66, a DRS (respray) Class 37 and a Load Haul class 56 all for £108 including postage.

The Metcalfe kits come with good instructions and I am sure that if your other half builds one for you she will be hooked.  The terrace houses are good as there are plenty of variations within the pack.  Same with the corner shop and pub.  They also make ideal presents when your birthday and/or Xmas comes around as they are very reasonably priced.

There are also a few lady members on here and maybe you could show her the layouts they have made/are making.  Descanso Farm is one of them - you can find it on the layout construction thread.

One thing to bear in mind for the future.  We all like to see photos showing your progress.

Good luck. 

Simon 

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 13, 2015, 12:10:37 AM
Read alot about DCC now and DC and pros and cons either side.. The big let down for DCC is the number of engines and that it wont run dc engines without potentially damaging them so that limits... The lights and running multiple trains on the same line is very appealing but not at the cost of the creativity and creating the world/set..

Craig, if you're not sure about whether to go DCC you could always get DCC ready train starter set and run it on DC for a while. E.G http://www.ehattons.com/71913/Graham_Farish_370_180_Seaside_Excursion_with_Class_4F_44044_in_BR_black_with_late_crest_and_BR_Mk1_BCK/StockDetail.aspx (http://www.ehattons.com/71913/Graham_Farish_370_180_Seaside_Excursion_with_Class_4F_44044_in_BR_black_with_late_crest_and_BR_Mk1_BCK/StockDetail.aspx) - Costs £110 from Hattons.
Also this one http://www.ehattons.com/58975/Dapol_NDIESEL1_Train_set_with_Class_73_JB_electro_diesel_in_BR_blue_2_x_VTG_ferrywagons_Gaugema/StockDetail.aspx (http://www.ehattons.com/58975/Dapol_NDIESEL1_Train_set_with_Class_73_JB_electro_diesel_in_BR_blue_2_x_VTG_ferrywagons_Gaugema/StockDetail.aspx) - but its not in stock yet and you would have to pre-order it.
If you decided to go with DCC later you could by a chip for the loco and a DCC controller later.

thanks bob for links.

still havent fully decided which to go for..  if i am going to get a dcc controller later on and chip the engines makes me just want to save the fuss and go out and just be done with it and pay a wee bit extra early on and get a dcc set..found one yesturday for 140 pounds.. which is 30 quid cheaper than ebay. so i might just do that..

will speak to other half then order  :confused1:

Quote from: newportnobby on January 12, 2015, 09:45:18 PM
There are not many locos that come 'DCC fitted' i.e. they already contain the chip. There are many locos that are 'DCC ready' and they are fitted with a blanking plug to enable running on DC. The idea is you run the loco in on DC, remove the blanking plug and then fit the chip of your choice rather than a factory fitted one. (note, however, this invalidates the warranty)

Just to clarify:
If the loco is factory fitted "DCC Ready" and you just remove the blanking plug and insert a chip of your choice then you do not invalidate your warranty!!

If you hard wire a chip, i.e., you have to solder the chip into place then you might invalidate any warranty!!

It's one of the reasons why its a good idea that you always run in your "DCC Ready" locos on DC track and then fit your decoder. If within your warranty period the loco develops a fault under DCC running then you reinsert the Blanking plug, check running under DC (this proofs that's its not just a fried decoder) and return to supplier for repair/replacement if necessary.

thanks for that jack... well noted :)

just one thing you said 'run in your loco'

do you mean go slow for a small time? until warm or what? didnt realize they needed 'ran in '

 :oopssign:

Thanks for the correction, Jack :-[

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 13, 2015, 05:01:52 PM
thanks for that jack... well noted :)

just one thing you said 'run in your loco'

do you mean go slow for a small time? until warm or what? didnt realize they needed 'ran in '

You need to run in each loco for about an hour in each direction at medium speed on DC. The instructions usually say how long to run in and whether lubrication is needed first.

As austinbob says, most makers in their instructions suggest that you run in a new loco for an hour in each direction "light loco", that is without any load attached.

I do remember a thread of long ago (tried the Search button to look for it - can't) where an ex Farish worker suggested that after you have run the hour each way you should physically turn the loco around on the track and repeat. There is also a suggestion that a figure of eight track is a good way to run a loco in (if using R2 curves then diesels and short steamers only).

The thoughts behind the figure of eight or turning the loco around is so that the running gears get to "bed in" on each possible curve.

I personally run my locos in using a loop for half an hour each way then turn the loco around and run for a further half hour each way.

Its also wise to "run in" locos again after a full service strip and cleaning. I have seen suggestions that after about 25 hours running locos should be serviced in such a way, but I'll stand corrected if I've got that wrong.

Quote from: Jack on January 13, 2015, 05:52:53 PM
I personally run my locos in using a loop for half an hour each way then turn the loco around and run for a further half hour each way.

Hi Jack - Yes I do that as well - great minds think alike eh!! :beers:

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 13, 2015, 12:10:37 AM
Hey i looked at the metcalfe kits they look brilliant! and not too expensive either.. love the engine sheds.. Ill try and slyly reel her in by getting her to make some for me lol..

Craig

Hi Craig,

Before you go buying any buildings to try and get your other half to build for you, why not try some of these free downloads  ;)

Low Relief Warehouse
http://www.scalescenes.com/ (http://www.scalescenes.com/)

Signal Box
https://sites.google.com/site/smartmodelsgbbo00/products/railway-models/railway-buildings/free-signal-box (https://sites.google.com/site/smartmodelsgbbo00/products/railway-models/railway-buildings/free-signal-box)

A site for printing your own choice of brick paper
http://paperbrick.co.uk/index.php?action=home (http://paperbrick.co.uk/index.php?action=home)

The beauty of these free buildings is if you have a less than successful attempt at one, you can print off more and have another try  :D

cheers John.

Quote from: scotsoft on January 13, 2015, 06:28:50 PM
Before you go buying any buildings to try and get your other half to build for you, why not try some of these free downloads  ;)

Low Relief Warehouse
http://www.scalescenes.com/ (http://www.scalescenes.com/)

Signal Box
https://sites.google.com/site/smartmodelsgbbo00/products/railway-models/railway-buildings/free-signal-box (https://sites.google.com/site/smartmodelsgbbo00/products/railway-models/railway-buildings/free-signal-box)

A site for printing your own choice of brick paper
http://paperbrick.co.uk/index.php?action=home (http://paperbrick.co.uk/index.php?action=home)

The beauty of these free buildings is if you have a less than successful attempt at one, you can print off more and have another try  :D

cheers John.

That's a great idea John - i might just try that myself.

thanks jack/bob for info running in..

THis must be a new thing cant remember doing this with old mainline stuff.. but that was in the 70's my old mainline train just ran from xmas day one for years after never stopped, no oiling or anything..

If i do go down the Dcc first of all with a dcc starter kit then it would be logical then just to buy locos that are already 'dcc ready' and leave them as that.. im surely if you dont touch anything of them and run them in on a dcc line then your warranty wont be effected.. sorry if i misunderstood you here...

thanks scotsoft for that link.. they look great for free! ill give it a go... watched on utube someone building a metcalfe signal box and factory they really do look fantastic for there size and cost  :)

I did some sums last night and by the time i get everything i need, engines, stock, and scenery im looking at around 500 - 600 pounds in total.. may i ask how much have you guys spent on your set? and did you buy it all at once or a gradual thing?

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 13, 2015, 06:42:17 PM
thanks jack/bob for info running in..

THis must be a new thing cant remember doing this with old mainline stuff.. but that was in the 70's my old mainline train just ran from xmas day one for years after never stopped, no oiling or anything..

If i do go down the Dcc first of all with a dcc starter kit then it would be logical then just to buy locos that are already 'dcc ready' and leave them as that.. im surely if you dont touch anything of them and run them in on a dcc line then your warranty wont be effected.. sorry if i misunderstood you here...

thanks scotsoft for that link.. they look great for free! ill give it a go... watched on utube someone building a metcalfe signal box and factory they really do look fantastic for there size and cost  :)

I did some sums last night and by the time i get everything i need, engines, stock, and scenery im looking at around 500 - 600 pounds in total.. may i ask how much have you guys spent on your set? and did you buy it all at once or a gradual thing?

Its a good idea to run your loco in on DC first. If a loco is DCC ready it doesn't have a decoder in it and it will run on DC no problem. If its DCC fitted, that is a decoder is installed then I believe you can run it in DC mode - but I'm not sure. Others will be able to help you with this.

As for cost - how long is a piece of string? I don't think you have to buy everything at once. Perhaps by a simple DCC system with a siding or two to get the feel of things. Add more stock, scenery etc. later. Got to keep the misses happy with the costs eh! Buy her the odd bunch of flowers, dress, shoes etc. to keep her sweet. Oh - don't show her this post I don't want to get in any more trouble than I already am with my misses.

If you buy a loco that is "DCC Fitted" then the decoder is fitted at the factory and therefor you would run it in under DCC as per instructions that come with the loco and that wouldn't affect any warranty.

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 13, 2015, 06:42:17 PM

I did some sums last night and by the time i get everything i need, engines, stock, and scenery im looking at around 500 - 600 pounds in total.. may i ask how much have you guys spent on your set? and did you buy it all at once or a gradual thing?

:no: That's one question not to ask  :-[ If your other 'alf found out.....  :slap: You might need the keys to the dog house!  :laugh:

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 13, 2015, 06:42:17 PM

I did some sums last night and by the time i get everything i need, engines, stock, and scenery im looking at around 500 - 600 pounds in total.. may i ask how much have you guys spent on your set? and did you buy it all at once or a gradual thing?

Don't ask it must run into the thousands over my 3 layouts.

Quote from: Ditape on January 13, 2015, 07:07:42 PM

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 13, 2015, 06:42:17 PM

I did some sums last night and by the time i get everything i need, engines, stock, and scenery im looking at around 500 - 600 pounds in total.. may i ask how much have you guys spent on your set? and did you buy it all at once or a gradual thing?

Don't ask it must run into the thousands over my 3 layouts.

OH!! don't put the poor chap off Ditape - I imagine that, like me, you spent loads of cash over a number of years to get where you are. Unless, of course, you're really rich in which case a donation to the Bob Austin benevolent fund would be much appreciated. I jest of course!!
:laugh:

Quote from: Jack on January 13, 2015, 06:58:41 PMYou might need the keys to the dog house!

Or the poultry coup in my case.
Even worse than the swmbo problem ( actually in my case she is very ummm , , supportive ! ), , even worse is my schizophrenia, " No, really, you could buy another two locos for that! ", I say to my alter ego :(
Sorry I did digress.

A problem with the 'already fitted' decoder may be that it is not the decoder of choice ????
How does the decoder fitted in the set measure up in the eyes of the cognescenti ?
and the controller/command station ?

Quote from: MalcolmAL on January 13, 2015, 07:18:15 PM
A problem with the 'already fitted' decoder may be that it is not the decoder of choice ????
How does the decoder fitted in the set measure up in the eyes of the cognescenti ?
and the controller/command station ?

Oh no!! - Now my brain really hurts - where did KISS go (keep it simple stupid)   :confused2:

 :laughabovepost:

Quote from: austinbob on January 13, 2015, 07:24:54 PM
Oh no!! - Now my brain really hurts - where did KISS go (keep it simple stupid)   :confused2:

Sorry Bob ! and excuse me CJ for hijacking your thread !!
but I bin reading :)

If we later wanted to do some computer control ( because the simple EZ ? command stations seem to only support 3 {perhaps 4 at N} locos {which I could do easier with 3 DC controllers} like Geoff et al are doing we would have to dump the EZ controller ?? It seems to have a port, but not a compatible one ??

My head hertz also ! :(
Back to you CJ.
PS good thread, I have learned allsorts.

Quote from: MalcolmAL on January 13, 2015, 07:18:15 PM

A problem with the 'already fitted' decoder may be that it is not the decoder of choice ????
How does the decoder fitted in the set measure up in the eyes of the cognescenti ?
and the controller/command station ?

I personally wouldn't buy a DCC Fitted loco as I prefer TCS or Digitrax chips.

Of the two main ones Farish fit their own Bachmann chips and Dapol fit Gaugemaster, I don't know if Kato do DCC fitted.

I, and others, have always gone along the lines with decoders that train makers decoders aren't the best. Having said that others will say they are fine. Everyone has their favorites.

Have a read - http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=13750.msg137683#msg137683 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=13750.msg137683#msg137683)

Quote from: MalcolmAL on January 13, 2015, 07:34:34 PM
:laughabovepost:

Quote from: austinbob on January 13, 2015, 07:24:54 PM
Oh no!! - Now my brain really hurts - where did KISS go (keep it simple stupid)   :confused2:

Sorry Bob ! and excuse me CJ for hijacking your thread !!
but I bin reading :)

If we later wanted to do some computer control ( because the simple EZ ? command stations seem to only support 3 {perhaps 4 at N} locos {which I could do easier with 3 DC controllers} like Geoff et al are doing we would have to dump the EZ controller ?? It seems to have a port, but not a compatible one ??

My head hertz also ! :(

It might be a kindness to start your own thread because we're drifting  :offtopicsign: Computer control is a whole different ball game!

np malcolmAL

Ahaha love your answers ! You all seem in denial into how much you have really spent on your sets!! Lol. I think if you get enjoyment with making it and using it then the money isn't important its what you get from it.. I can think of worse things to blow your money that's a bigger waste... (no way im telling my other half that line btw) :o

Your right if my other half found out she would hang me out to dry.. So got to do this in a way that the money disappears a wee bit by bit lol

Jesus this dcc dc fitted not fitted stuff is a pain in the arse, they could of made it simpler for newbie's rejoining the hobbie after decades gone.. So the engines I will need are 'DCC fitted' now lol

You know all this hassle with chips and DCC I realize why some of you guys have stayed with DC.. I assume dc hasn't changed since my mainline train in the 70's just two wires. To a track lol

I would go to my local model shop and ask all these questions but not sure ill understand it and dont want  him to start pushing to sell me stuff when ive already checked his prices and the prices on ebay and the net and they are roughly around 30% cheaper..


thanks for link jack.. what exactly is it decoding? lol (almost scared to ask here) sorry for being over Analytical here and probs my aspergers but just wondered the details of it.. the science of this dcc stuff seems to be all over the place.. as in some chips work some dont, some do different things that others dont lol its a mine field

Quote from: Jack on January 13, 2015, 07:41:45 PM
It might be a kindness to start your own thread because we're drifting  :offtopicsign: Computer control is a whole different ball game!

Yes you are right of course, I got carried away with Bob and my head's struggling !

Thanks for your thoughts on the chips btw.

Back to you CJ, before I think of something else :) lol!

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 13, 2015, 07:47:12 PMwhat exactly is it decoding? lol (almost scared to ask here)

:)
:) Ok I'll start ;)
The controller box ( aka command station, or throttle) sends voltage pulses onto the track (a bit like barcode pulses of black & white) which are picked up by all the locos on the track.
Each set of pulses start with an address ( like a post code) and end with some data ( like a love letter :) ) so each loco knows which data (packet, letter) belongs to it (addressed to it ). That is the first part of the decoding that they all do.
The second part is the love letter itself, it contains some instructions about what the specific loco should do next, like speed up or slow down etc. that is the second part of the decoding task.

Stop me when I go too far, I used to be an electronics engineer in the dim mists, I get lost on the specifications of what is being sold by which vendor cos they dont always say :(

and when the packet arrived it was open ... (the decoder went up in smoke !) :D

Quote from: mr bachmann on January 13, 2015, 08:37:16 PM
and when the packet arrived it was open ... (the decoder went up in smoke !) :D

:laughabovepost:
GCHQ got there first :)

Quote from: mr bachmann on January 13, 2015, 08:37:16 PM
and when the packet arrived it was open ... (the decoder went up in smoke !) :D

Que?
???

thanks malcom

afer reading more about dcc and dc tonight i made the plunge and bought this kit :)

http://www.modellers-mecca.co.uk/starter-sets/12754-370-080-countryside-coal-train-set-dcc-onboard.html (http://www.modellers-mecca.co.uk/starter-sets/12754-370-080-countryside-coal-train-set-dcc-onboard.html)

just want to say thanks to everyone for there help and advice..

going to also buy a extra track set so i have more than a loop and one siding and perhaps in a week or so another engine :) dcc FITTED of course.. then ill be well on my way  ;D

once again thanks

:thankyousign:

ps.. if your interested i can post pictures as the wee world im going to make progress's all but slowly :)

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 14, 2015, 02:27:59 AM
thanks malcom

afer reading more about dcc and dc tonight i made the plunge and bought this kit :)

http://www.modellers-mecca.co.uk/starter-sets/12754-370-080-countryside-coal-train-set-dcc-onboard.html (http://www.modellers-mecca.co.uk/starter-sets/12754-370-080-countryside-coal-train-set-dcc-onboard.html)

just want to say thanks to everyone for there help and advice..

going to also buy a extra track set so i have more than a loop and one siding and perhaps in a week or so another engine :) dcc FITTED of course.. then ill be well on my way  ;D

once again thanks

:thankyousign:

ps.. if your interested i can post pictures as the wee world im going to make progress's all but slowly :)

Good luck and - enjoy  :NGaugersRule:

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 14, 2015, 02:27:59 AM
ps.. if your interested i can post pictures as the wee world im going to make progress's all but slowly :)

Oh yes please :) You took the very words off my keyboard, I was about to say " Did anyone mention we love pictures "  :thumbsup: :beers:

Well done, congrats on making a decision (wish I was as good at that ),

I am very tempted by that set as well, I may have some questions for you in due course :) but I'll leave you to play   operate it for a wee while in peace first ;)

as Bob says - Enjoy.

thanks malcom thanks bob

dispatched today so i should get it tomorrow..

i Think n gauge will be a shock to me as never seen how small they are in real life..

i found this on ebay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peco-N-gauge-Starter-Track-set-ST-300-/231451306131?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item35e392a893 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peco-N-gauge-Starter-Track-set-ST-300-/231451306131?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item35e392a893)

12-15 quid cheaper than anywhere else.. so going to order that..

do you know the cheapest place for peco flexi track?

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 14, 2015, 05:23:56 PM
thanks malcom thanks bob

dispatched today so i should get it tomorrow..

i Think n gauge will be a shock to me as never seen how small they are in real life..

i found this on ebay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peco-N-gauge-Starter-Track-set-ST-300-/231451306131?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item35e392a893 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peco-N-gauge-Starter-Track-set-ST-300-/231451306131?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item35e392a893)

12-15 quid cheaper than anywhere else.. so going to order that..

do you know the cheapest place for peco flexi track?

That track set will add a lot of interest.
I buy my Peco track from Hattons - they are generally pretty competitive. Here's a link to their Peco code 80 streamline page which includes flexitrack. http://www.ehattons.com/stocklist/1000407/1000589/1000684/0/Peco_Products_N_Gauge_Track_Code_80_Streamline_/prodlist.aspx (http://www.ehattons.com/stocklist/1000407/1000589/1000684/0/Peco_Products_N_Gauge_Track_Code_80_Streamline_/prodlist.aspx)
:beers:

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 14, 2015, 05:23:56 PM
thanks malcom thanks bob

dispatched today so i should get it tomorrow..

i Think n gauge will be a shock to me as never seen how small they are in real life..

i found this on ebay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peco-N-gauge-Starter-Track-set-ST-300-/231451306131?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item35e392a893 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peco-N-gauge-Starter-Track-set-ST-300-/231451306131?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item35e392a893)

12-15 quid cheaper than anywhere else.. so going to order that..

do you know the cheapest place for peco flexi track?

Hattons due that track pack for £42 brand new with all the right bits in it - I know which one I'd go for. Hattons are also probably the best price for your flexi track, however if you only want a couple of lengths it might be better to visit your local model shop.

Quote from: Jack on January 14, 2015, 05:33:41 PM
if you only want a couple of lengths it might be better to visit your local model shop.

Trouble is Jack, local model shops are becoming less 'local' now. I don't know how CJ is fixed for model shops but the only one thats any good for me is 20 miles away. :thumbsdown:

hey bob/jack/Malcolm and rest  :wave:

Carlisle dos have one local model shop in the city centre but parking is a pain.. double yellows everywhere so one cant get near it..

Some progress though with my project of sorts,

Still waiting for my starter kit  :veryangry:

Bought 7 second hand wagons on eBay and received them! OMG they are so tiny! My first sight of N gauge in real life (not in pictures) didn't realize they were so small.. But the detail is fantastic.. A few buffers missing but happy for what I paid for...

And some fantastic news managed to get a flying Scotsman with dcc fitted on eBay for 60 pounds.. Not sure if that's good or not but the model has been looked after and the pictures look brilliant.. Shames only hauling wagons but don't care didn't think I would have something so elegant so early on... feel ashamed a wee bit its coming to such a newbie after being with someone who knew what they were doing and  had a huge layout.. He said it has sat on the shelf for a year but runs great still and will need servicing so already got the oil to oil the joints...

Hmmm what else , oh yeah got Metcalf signal box, engine shed and goods shed and my partner bought the farm to build! All these BEFORE any track being laid ! Lol or before I even receive the actual kit!!

Made the engine shed and even though kits are fiddly and tiny really pleased how they look..

Anyways that's it for now..

Craig

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 16, 2015, 06:17:55 PM
hey bob/jack/Malcolm and rest  :wave
Bought 7 second hand wagons on eBay and received them! OMG they are so tiny! My first sight of N gauge in real life (not in pictures) didn't realize they were so small.. But the detail is fantastic..
Craig

Do you know Craig, that was exactly my reaction when I bought my first loco (Farish 4MT) and a few Peco wagons. I was used to 4mm scale EM gauge ( OO with more scale track gauge) and couldn't get my head round the small size. But - as you say - the detail is incredible for such small items and you just fall in love with it all!
Be careful with the locos when you get them its so easy to damage them - especially the steamers with complicated valve gear - I speak from experience here.

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 16, 2015, 06:17:55 PM
hey bob/jack/Malcolm and rest  :wave:

Hmmm what else , oh yeah got Metcalf signal box, engine shed and goods shed and my partner bought the farm to build! All these BEFORE any track being laid ! Lol or before I even receive the actual kit!!

Made the engine shed and even though kits are fiddly and tiny really pleased how they look..

Anyways that's it for now..

Craig

The Metcalfe kits are quite fiddly especially when it gets to chimney pots.  Looks like your other half might be hooked now.  Once she builds that farm there will be no stopping her.  Hope your starter pack and Flying Scotsman arrives soon.  Don't forget to start a thread on the layout planning and/or construction forum and to post pictures.

Simon

Hey bob

Yeah the detail is incredible on n gauge for the size very pleased that I converted from 00 now.. Ja watched Scotsman on utube in n gauge and the gearing looks tiny! Lol looking forwarding to giving it a nice oiling.. :bounce:

Yeah shaker shes hooked!! She already wants a small part of the layout to build a farm and a church and a small village!!!! So the devious plan has worked but could of back fired ! As shes taking over ! Lol  I told her I want to keep it industrial and not fill the world full of static towns that don't move.. that's just land that track could be on ... but ill give her a little patch to appease her ..

Sorry for posting on here about update didn't realize I hato make a new thread..   :uneasy:

Quote from: shaker_wooders on January 16, 2015, 07:41:24 PM

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 16, 2015, 06:17:55 PM
hey bob/jack/Malcolm and rest  :wave:

Hmmm what else , oh yeah got Metcalf signal box, engine shed and goods shed and my partner bought the farm to build! All these BEFORE any track being laid ! Lol or before I even receive the actual kit!!

Made the engine shed and even though kits are fiddly and tiny really pleased how they look..

Anyways that's it for now..

Craig

The Metcalfe kits are quite fiddly especially when it gets to chimney pots.  Looks like your other half might be hooked now.  Once she builds that farm there will be no stopping her.  Hope your starter pack and Flying Scotsman arrives soon.  Don't forget to start a thread on the layout planning and/or construction forum and to post pictures.

Simon

There many options when making chimney pots and most of those are listed hereabouts.

Like a fair few other folk, I use cocktail sticks, coloured/stained to look terracotta-ish.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/thumb_4844.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4844)

Apologies for the old photo.

Dave G

oh i like that picture,

country house scene.. my first model the engine shed had alot more glue than that ... learnt the hard way i guess.. it was no way as clear as yours though.. love the shrubs etc too.. looks very 'cumbrian'  :(

so when i have an update i dont post in here? i make a new thread?

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 16, 2015, 08:21:45 PM
oh i like that picture,

country house scene.. my first model the engine shed had alot more glue than that ... learnt the hard way i guess.. it was no way as clear as yours though.. love the shrubs etc too.. looks very 'cumbrian'  :(

so when i have an update i dont post in here? i make a new thread?

Sorry what I meant was when you start to plan e.g. have a track plan that you want people to see/comment on and/or build your actual layout people tend to start threads on the Layout Planning and/or Layout Construction parts of the forum.

Simon

A tip with Metcalfe kits; if you get yourself some felt tip pens and run the appropriate colour down the white corners of the buildings it makes the model look so much better.  :thumbsup:

I'd echo Simon's advice and post your track plan (when you have it) in the Layout Planning section and then when you get to the baseboard building etc put that in the Layout Construction section. One thing's for sure, Craig, seek advice from this knowledgeable collective at all stages as it can really help avoid pitfalls, heartache etc and save you money :thumbsup:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/33/thumb_20419.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=20419)

This was my/our first attempt at a building with chimney pots!  Spot the problem!!

Jack's right!

I have a collection of water colour pencils (Sainsburys!) that I use to hide the white corners. I find I make less a wobbly line as I can sharpen them to quite a fine point and use them barely damp.

Dave G

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 16, 2015, 06:17:55 PM
Carlisle

There's a coincidence, I was born and spent first 18years in Carlisle !
Great to see your update,
well done on your Scotsman and other aquisitions and good news on Partner taking over   being interested as well :) :) Sounds like there is an alternate devious plan in operation ? perhaps !  :hmmm: :laugh:

and thanks also Simon and Dave for the Metcalf pics.

Carlisle eh...  :hmmm:

C&M Models, a proper old school model train shop... ie it's tiny and full of trains!

We always used to park in the Cecil St car park so the model shop was handily between us and the town centre...

More than three people in there is a bit crowded!  :thumbsup:

yeah C&M never been in yet because of parking.. but will soon

he seems friendly enough via email though.. he offers a fitting a dcc chips service..

yeah i seen pictures it looks like a shoe cupboard lol but full to the roof with stuff  :confused1:

Dont like carlisle really not the city though!, its a beautiful old city and a great train station to train spot but just too many chavs and trouble makers..

:NGaugersRule:

Hey guys..

Need some help here..

Finally got the starter set.. And it says in the instructions that I need to oil the 'gear train' and 'motor bearings'. is the gear train the pivots connected to the wheels? And where are the motor bearings?

The pack and instructions arnt really user friendly considering its targeted at newbies like me.. Dosnt tell me where any of these things are..

Secondly it says that 'dcc decoder fitted models- run in with a dcc controller'

And

'dc models - run in with an appropriate dc controller'

Now there is a wee chip with it in a bag.. Is this the decoder chip? Can I not just fit that and then run in with dcc controller I have as I do not have a dc controller..

It also says in the instructions 'run in as above using a dc power supply before fitting a dcc decoder'

This is contradictive to what it said earlier..

Confused here and don't want to touch anything terrified I break something...

Any help would be great...

Thanks

C J Beattie

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 17, 2015, 11:44:08 AM
Now there is a wee chip with it in a bag.. Is this the decoder chip?

You are right, that does not sound very new-user friendly :( I am astonished.

I cant help you on a practical level with the oiling, running in etc too much of a newbie myself, best wait for the experts !

However, the wee thing in the bag -
there was a thread about it just recently from another new owner in which it was decided that it was a DC plug to convert the loco back to DCrunning. The conclusion was that the loco was already fitted with its DCC chip ready out of the box for DCC running.

I'll try to find it, give me a mo.  > > >

EDIT :
Here you go :
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=25386.msg272165#msg272165 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=25386.msg272165#msg272165)

Thanks Malcolm

I look in the top of the cab where the decoder is meant to be which I assume u need for dcc and there isn't one there its just 6 pins sticking up.. So I don't think its even been fitted..

Shocked to be honest mate. Though it would be user friendly.. The days of Christmas and getting out wiring it up and running it around and around the tree are gone! Lol so it would seem or perhaps I just got old

If it is a warranty issue with this chip thing then it wouldn't work anyways as they don't know you haven't ran it in with dc and then fitted the chip afterwards and then it stopped working so it would be impossible to enforce..

On the plus side.. Nice solid controller, beautiful wee engine and wagons and TINY track ! Lol still use to 00..

Ok ill wait for the experts come before I do anything... I have see tutorials on utube 'simons shed' I think they called it and he reviewed a new engine and his paper work with the new engine had diagrams showing where to oil with arrows etc.. I Guess I was kind of expecting that...

ah thanks for the link malcolm  :)

so thats a blanking plate? and the dcc chip is already fitted...

its shocking it dosn't make that clear in the instructions..

just goto wait now for the pro's to explain where to oil !  :goggleeyes:

btw what part of carlisle were you brought up in? its a small city...

craig

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 17, 2015, 12:42:30 PM
so thats a blanking plate? and the dcc chip is already fitted...

That is what I gathered from Dr.Als diagnosis, but now I am puzzled by your ref to 6 pins being visible, velly velly odd ! Dunno !! Deffo some experts needed.

Meanwhile just for some reading, caveat = theoretically and not by way of advice etc&etc :) :-

These instructions to oil , , are they intended to be implemented before first run OR are they general maintainance instructions for/at some time in the future ?
Cos to me the motor bearings would be on the ends of the motor armature shaft, and that is somewhere inside the loco body ? not likely to be accessible from outside ??
Similar with the "gear train", that is what connects the motor shaft to the wheels. usually a worm gear on the end of the motor shaft driving a spur gear either on a lay shaft or directly on a wheel axle.
All of which would need some degree of dismantling, not to be expected of a new owner I'd av thort ?!
Hence my astonishment earlier :(

I'll get back to you and Luke on things Carlisle later when we have recovered from the astonishment, cos I am just dipping in here between domestic chores which seem to have accumulated during the week ! :laugh3:

edited speeling of armature !

CJ

The loco in your train set is a Graham Farish Jinty I believe. Graham Farish don't usually ask you to oil the locos out of the box. So you should be OK to run it for several hours without oiling. Dapol ask you to oil their locos before you run them.
I'm not familiar with the Farish Jinty and I can't find a service sheet on line. The gears can usually be seen from the underneath of the loco between each set of wheels. Sometimes there is a plastic keeper plate fitted over the gears, between the wheels which has to be removed before you can oil the gears. The other parts that normally need a tiny drop of oil at some time are the pins which connect the coupling rods to the wheels - 3 per side. I wouldn't have thought you would need to oil the motor bearings any time soon - very strange if that's what the instructions say.
If you are going to oil anything make sure you use the right sort of light machine oil specially designed for model loco mechanisms like the one supplied by Dapol - and only use a tiny amount. If you use the wrong oil you might do more harm than good and damage the paintwork.

As others have said the loco should be DCC fitted already - maybe the 'pin's you are seeing are just the parts of the pins going through the solder joints on the tiny printed circuit boards.
If there is no board fitted at all then it should not do any harm if you connect the controller up - it just won't run without a blanking board or a DCC chip.

It might be worth giving Graham Farish a call to clarify some of your issues if you're not sure what to do.

CJ
I've managed to locate pictures of the Farish Jinty in Railway Modeller review May 2014. I can't send you a copy of the picture because of copyright restrictions. However, the DCC chip board is located in the cab of the loco and when the chip is plugged in it is upside down which means you only see the parts of the pins going through the tiny pcb. If you unplugged the pcb you would see the sockets that the board (either blanking or DCC fitted) fit into.
So my guess is that the DCC fitted board is installed.

The motor seems to be of the sealed type so I'm sure that you could oil the bearings even if you wanted to.

This only my thoughts about what's going on - I don't want to get a bill from you if your DCC chip self destructs cause of my advice!!  :-[

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 17, 2015, 12:42:30 PM
btw what part of carlisle were you brought up in? its a small city...

continued here http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=25792.msg277392#msg277392 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=25792.msg277392#msg277392)

thanks bob for your help

set it up and ran it for the hour needed after oiling the joints of the wheels.. runs sweet and lots of control because of dcc. very smooth.. very very quiet compared to 00 (from what i can remeber though)

lots of power though i put 14 wagons behind it and still pulled it with ease...

nice little engine

once again thanks for your help

Craig  :beers:

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 17, 2015, 08:53:56 PM
thanks bob for your help

set it up and ran it for the hour needed after oiling the joints of the wheels.. runs sweet and lots of control because of dcc. very smooth.. very very quiet compared to 00 (from what i can remeber though)

lots of power though i put 14 wagons behind it and still pulled it with ease...

nice little engine

once again thanks for your help

Craig  :beers:

Craig.
So glad its all working ok. Its a real pain when you buy something new and they don't give you enough info to work out how its all supposed to work. I see you've been busy buying loads of wagons though. You're gonna need a bigger track soon.

FROM HUMBLE BEGINNINGS!!!!

thanks bob  :beers:

already got track ordered and coachs and more wagons and the steamer the scot coming  :D

i took some pics of the humble beginnings of my set! lol or perhaps 'simple' describes it better !  ::)

you dont get alot for your 140 pounds to be honest.. but i guess you pay for dcc....

i also took a pic of the metcalf engine shed i built that i then spent day adding decals and weathering....trying to give effect of the engine sheds we pass on the train with tarnished windows and generally unclean in appearance... oil etc..

:ngauge:

(http://imageshack.com/a/img540/561/3CQG0y.jpg)

(http://imageshack.com/a/img661/7156/fnI74h.jpg)

(http://imageshack.com/a/img661/1489/OTglbo.jpg)

Brill ! Love it. I was wondering what had happened to the pics of the engine shed etc :)
Thanks for showing. Glad all is going to plan.

Only one point of order Mr Speaker :
Should the chair be closer to the controller ? ;D

i found this online guys..

http://www.cheltenhammodelcentre.com/products/3163-Flexible-Budget-Track-N-Gauge-Nickel-Silver-207030/ (http://www.cheltenhammodelcentre.com/products/3163-Flexible-Budget-Track-N-Gauge-Nickel-Silver-207030/)

just wondered if it would be compatible with peco track.. if so its very cheap  :( would save alot of cash

craig

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 18, 2015, 12:49:56 PM
i found this online guys..

http://www.cheltenhammodelcentre.com/products/3163-Flexible-Budget-Track-N-Gauge-Nickel-Silver-207030/ (http://www.cheltenhammodelcentre.com/products/3163-Flexible-Budget-Track-N-Gauge-Nickel-Silver-207030/)

just wondered if it would be compatible with peco track.. if so its very cheap  :( would save alot of cash

craig

That looks good value Craig - not much info in the description
Might be worth giving them a call. Peco code 80 comatible track is what you are looking for.

is this the stuff you mean bob?

http://www.ehattons.com/7598/Peco_Products_SL_300_Pack_of_25_1_yard_91_5cm_length_of_Wooden_Sleeper_Nickel_Silver_Flexible_track/StockDetail.aspx (http://www.ehattons.com/7598/Peco_Products_SL_300_Pack_of_25_1_yard_91_5cm_length_of_Wooden_Sleeper_Nickel_Silver_Flexible_track/StockDetail.aspx)

:worried:

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 18, 2015, 07:43:16 PM
is this the stuff you mean bob?

http://www.ehattons.com/7598/Peco_Products_SL_300_Pack_of_25_1_yard_91_5cm_length_of_Wooden_Sleeper_Nickel_Silver_Flexible_track/StockDetail.aspx (http://www.ehattons.com/7598/Peco_Products_SL_300_Pack_of_25_1_yard_91_5cm_length_of_Wooden_Sleeper_Nickel_Silver_Flexible_track/StockDetail.aspx)

:worried:

That's the right track for what you already have. I think you need to ask Cheltenham Models if their track is compatible. It probably is.

I already wrote to them bob asking them

but seen post on another forum saying that the cheaper budget stuff i showed you actually is slightly higher than the peco stuff and causing some locos to derail.. and connections needing filing .. perhaps to play safe and stick with peco.. 25 1 yard lengths of flexi track should be all i need..

:)

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 18, 2015, 08:40:18 PM
I already wrote to them bob asking them

but seen post on another forum saying that the cheaper budget stuff i showed you actually is slightly higher than the peco stuff and causing some locos to derail.. and connections needing filing .. perhaps to play safe and stick with peco.. 25 1 yard lengths of flexi track should be all i need..

:)

That sounds like the best bet then - shame though, that other track was very cheap. Be very careful with code 80 flexitrack it can fall apart if you're very aggresive in bending it. Should be ok if you're careful. Code 55 flexitrack is more robust than code 80 and although it has a slight mismatch with your existing code 80 setrack stuff it should work fine. In fact I quite like the slight mismatch as it gives you that lovely clackety clack sound as coaches go over the join - how sad is that!!

I'm sure there will be loads of other people here who can give you advice on the best flexitrack to use. I've just indicated my preference.

isnt the peco stuff cheaper? per length and price?

Hehe not sad bob ! regarding noise

I love that about train noise and journeys ! When I was germany for a bit they didn't have the clackty it clack between the lines and it was odd.. I missed it.. I really did.. I assume the gerrmans have less gap between there rails or something but they were super quiet..

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 18, 2015, 08:40:18 PM
I already wrote to them bob asking them

but seen post on another forum saying that the cheaper budget stuff i showed you actually is slightly higher than the peco stuff and causing some locos to derail.. and connections needing filing .. perhaps to play safe and stick with peco.. 25 1 yard lengths of flexi track should be all i need..

:)

You are going to need a bigger table then  ;) 

What sort of track plan do you have in mind?  Roundy roundy, end to end, motive power depot etc?

Simon

hey simon

i plan to take table up stairs into computer room which I will half and have around 9 foot by 4 layout then.. And use table as a centre support then get mdf and do supports to opposite walls to and the table in the middle.. Then lay the track on that.. Then the layout will be a mostly industrial layout lots of shunting room and lines etc, a 2 line loop and in the middle a little bit of countryside and the rest shunting and a  industrial scheme.. (fingers crossed)  would love the room also to have a separate countryside line and a few tiny stations alone the route. That would be cool but I know im restricted by size...

I know its overall  plan to start off as a newbie is overlay ambitious I just done want something I will get bored of when built...though there is something very enchanting about N gauge that 00 dosnt have perhaps the size? Perhaps the ability to build large worlds in a small scale.. Cant explain it ..

I just hope it works..

hey btw

i read tonight on tutorial that there is a difference between 'normal rail joiners' and 'insulated rail joiners' needed for dcc.. can someone explain in 'simple' english for me please the difference and why and where they are needed..

thankyou

:thankyousign: :NGaugersRule:

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 19, 2015, 12:59:00 AM
hey btw

i read tonight on tutorial that there is a difference between 'normal rail joiners' and 'insulated rail joiners' needed for dcc.. can someone explain in 'simple' english for me please the difference and why and where they are needed..

thankyou

:thankyousign: :NGaugersRule:

By normal rail connectors I believe they mean metal ones and insulated are plastic ones and you need the plastic ones to isolate the frog rails on your points to avoid shorts. the frog rails are the 2 middle ones one turnout end of the point if you use electro frog (live frog) points, you can also use the plastic ones to break the layout in to power zones if you have a really big layout.
I hope this helps

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 18, 2015, 10:16:02 PM
isnt the peco stuff cheaper? per length and price?

Peco code 80 flexitrack from Hattons is £2-60 per length or £52 for 25
Cheltenham Models budget flexitrack is £1.75 per length or £32 for 20
:beers:

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 19, 2015, 12:48:33 AM
hey simon

i plan to take table up stairs into computer room which I will half and have around 9 foot by 4 layout then.. And use table as a centre support then get mdf and do supports to opposite walls to and the table in the middle.. Then lay the track on that.. Then the layout will be a mostly industrial layout lots of shunting room and lines etc, a 2 line loop and in the middle a little bit of countryside and the rest shunting and a  industrial scheme.. (fingers crossed)  would love the room also to have a separate countryside line and a few tiny stations alone the route. That would be cool but I know im restricted by size...

I know its overall  plan to start off as a newbie is overlay ambitious I just done want something I will get bored of when built...though there is something very enchanting about N gauge that 00 dosnt have perhaps the size? Perhaps the ability to build large worlds in a small scale.. Cant explain it ..

I just hope it works..

Well that sounds like a plan!

It may be ambitious but I am with you about not getting bored because it you have built something that isn't what you really wanted to build.  Something that I have read on more than one occasion on here is to take things in stages and not to make anything permanent until you are absolutely sure that everything works properly.  Good planning is essential and there are plenty of threads which explain some of the mistakes that we all make, even the people who have been making layouts for 30-40 years.

You will also need to play test the layout whilst you are building it by running lots of trains on the various parts of your track.  Playing Testing is an absolutely vital part of the process  ;)

Don't forget to keep your other half involved as you will need to keep her onside when it comes to spending some cash on the engines/coaches/wagons/scenery that you absolutely must have to "finish" the layout.

I am hoping to get round to starting my layout in earnest this year - I just have to help my other half with her house plans first and then hopefully I will have sufficient brownie points to convince her that it would be better if we bought a "man cave" for the layout rather than use up 3/4 of the conservatory.

Wish me luck

Simon

Hey guys

Got a bit of a problem here, I got some second hand peco track from the net and since fitting parts of it to my existing bit the engines are stopping intermittently on bits of the track more so when going at a low speed. Whats odd is that they can run perfectly fine at one point and yet 5 mins later they stop for no reason dn require me to give it a nudge to get going again..

Both my engines the original I got with the pack and the royal scot that I just bought do the same so I assume its not the engine, I have checked all the connections and all are tight and all pieces of tack flush next to each other so I cant explain it..

The new bits of track are slightly less shiny than my new stuff but seem to be ok...

Another error ive noticed too now is when I try and put the trains into the sidings they stop on the middle of points junction and I have to nudge it to get it going again.. Any ideas? When the points are straight the trains run over them fine only stopping when I flick the points and try and put it into the siding...

Any help would be great

Craig

Hey Simon, good luck with your layout! Lol I know feeing about keeping other sweet otherwise you get the wrath of a annoyed angry women on your back which is a restrictive element to creating a successful detailed layout lol

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 21, 2015, 05:23:36 PM
Hey guys

Got a bit of a problem here, I got some second hand peco track from the net and since fitting parts of it to my existing bit the engines are stopping intermittently on bits of the track more so when going at a low speed. Whats odd is that they can run perfectly fine at one point and yet 5 mins later they stop for no reason dn require me to give it a nudge to get going again..

Both my engines the original I got with the pack and the royal scot that I just bought do the same so I assume its not the engine, I have checked all the connections and all are tight and all pieces of tack flush next to each other so I cant explain it..

The new bits of track are slightly less shiny than my new stuff but seem to be ok...

Another error ive noticed too now is when I try and put the trains into the sidings they stop on the middle of points junction and I have to nudge it to get it going again.. Any ideas? When the points are straight the trains run over them fine only stopping when I flick the points and try and put it into the siding...

Any help would be great

Craig

Hey Simon, good luck with your layout! Lol I know feeing about keeping other sweet otherwise you get the wrath of a annoyed angry women on your back which is a restrictive element to creating a successful detailed layout lol

Hi Craig
A couple of things to try here.
Clean the track with Isopropyl Alcohol (IPA) and paper towel. You can get IPA on line or from Maplin. You'll find black streaks on the tissue paper if there is any crud on the track. Keep cleaning until there are no more black streaks.
Check the rail joiners to see if they are tight and making contact. Second hand track may have been connected disconnected a number of times.
If the points have plastic frogs (thats the bit at the junction of the moving point blades) then sometimes locos may stall on those. Particularly short wheel base tank engines.
Hope that helps.
:beers:

Quote from: austinbob on January 21, 2015, 05:36:35 PM
Hi Craig
A couple of things to try here.
Clean the track with Isopropyl Alcohol (IPA) and paper towel. You can get IPA on line or from Maplin. You'll find black streaks on the tissue paper if there is any crud on the track. Keep cleaning until there are no more black streaks.
Check the rail joiners to see if they are tight and making contact. Second hand track may have been connected disconnected a number of times.
If the points have plastic frogs (thats the bit at the junction of the moving point blades) then sometimes locos may stall on those. Particularly short wheel base tank engines.
Hope that helps.

Another thing to check with the points is that the point blades are touching the fixed track (making electrical contact that is). Clean the edge of the rail on the moving blades and where they touch the fixed blade with IPA. If the points are second hand then they may well need cleaning like this.
:beers:

Agree with Bob - it sounds like dirty track is the problem.
Try running things on your original track and if all is OK then give the latest track a good dose of elbow grease with the IPA either on a tissue as Bob suggests or a piece of hardboard. The crooks and nannies of pointwork can be difficult to get at - I use a pipe cleaner to get to them.
IPA may be available at your local chemist (you may have to explain what you'll be using it for). Failing that, plentiful supplies can be found on Fleabay.

Quote from: newportnobby on January 21, 2015, 08:36:36 PM
Agree with Bob - it sounds like dirty track is the problem.
Try running things on your original track and if all is OK then give the latest track a good dose of elbow grease with the IPA either on a tissue as Bob suggests or a piece of hardboard. The crooks and nannies of pointwork can be difficult to get at - I use a pipe cleaner to get to them.
IPA may be available at your local chemist (you may have to explain what you'll be using it for). Failing that, plentiful supplies can be found on Fleabay.

You can also try your local camera shop. Many lens cleaning solutions are based on IPA - sometimes diluted with water. You don't need a lot - it goes a long way! If you use paper towel to clean the track make sure you lift any bits away that get torn off as you clean across track sections. You don't want any bits of paper to get into your loco mechanisms! Paper towels are fine when they're wet but dried paper and paper dust is not good for your locos.

thanks for the help guys ive ordered some  Isopropyl Alcohol  online...

and some new connectors

here is picture of royal scot i got online second hand... sorry not a very good picture..

beautiful little engine though...

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/910/n7WIvy.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pan7WIvyj)

once again thanks for the help  :ngauge:

hey guys

i ordered rather stupidly a cheap set of rail cutters a week ago they arrived and when i cut the flexi track the cut is not clean, so its impossible to fit the fishplates,  infact it would be cleaner and less jagged if i did with a hammer  :confused1:

i read online that 'Xuron cutters' get the rest result and cleanest cut..

what do you guy suggest before i order dont want to make another mistake

thanks

Craig

You can' tog wrong with Xuron. But before splashing out I would take a metal file and file down the end of the rails to see if you can fit the fishplates. Even with Xuron cutters you need to do a little filing...

i used an old dremmel with the fine cutting blade no need for filling but you cant cut a dead vertical cut but is hardly noticeable

A set of decent cutters is a good investment but as mentioned, a gentle finish with a fine fine does help.

Here's a link that may help you decide on what tools you could find useful:

https://www.expotools.com/acatalog/HAND-TOOLS.html (https://www.expotools.com/acatalog/HAND-TOOLS.html)

Dave G

Quote from: daveg on January 31, 2015, 08:21:20 AM
A set of decent cutters is a good investment but as mentioned, a gentle finish with a fine fine does help.

Here's a link that may help you decide on what tools you could find useful:

https://www.expotools.com/acatalog/HAND-TOOLS.html (https://www.expotools.com/acatalog/HAND-TOOLS.html)

Dave G

Just a warning....
For some reason Dave, my antivirus program is blocking this page - doesn't happen very often. I'm using BitDefender. - Site contains malware apparently
:beers:

The packaging on my Xurons specifically states 'no need for filing' so I don't.
It might help with the inevitable 'Fishplate Finger' though :hmmm:

Thanks for the advice guys...

Will after reading more about them invest in some Xurons..

Ref newportnobby got my first 'fishplate' finger last night   :worried:

Hato clean all the tracks afterwards because of the blood

Another lesson learn't

Craig  :beers:

ahhhh

what a difference, got a wee file and after snipping just filed the end of the rail for 2 seconds and the fish plate slid straight on  :)

thanks for the tip

:bounce:

Passed through Norton without a hitch this end.  ???

Maybe try keying in the info or just simply Google expotools

Dave G

Quote from: daveg on January 31, 2015, 04:24:14 PM
Passed through Norton without a hitch this end.  ???

Maybe try keying in the info or just simply Google expotools

Dave G

Probably just a false positive. Never had a problem before with Expo web site.
:-[

Quote from: cjbeattie on January 22, 2015, 12:59:43 AM
thanks for the help guys ive ordered some  Isopropyl Alcohol  online...

Hi Craig - did you fix your track problems and intermittent running that you posted about a while ago?

:NGF:

Hey bob

Yes partly yes I sorted it the liquid I ordered off line helped a lot to clean the tracks, I found out more though it was due to lose fishplate connections than the line (I think) as when I nipped them up with long nose pliers the connection seemed a lot more constant!

Mad though just missed out on eBay of a class 25 and missed out winning it by 1 pound!!!!! What a beautiful old engine!!!!

Nearly finished decorating bedroom so will be ready to put my base board up for laying of the track..

:)