I recently part-exchanged a DMU in a shop and was surprised at how much of the cost was recovered considering the fact you'll never get top dollar from a selling it in this way.
Some of the prices in the secondhand section on here surprise me, being very close to what you can just buy it for new. I've even seen a few things exceeding the cost that it would be from a retailler!
Do you find that newer, looked after N gauge holds it's value quite well? I understand it'll never be an investment but having had cars and cameras for a hobby, it's surprising to see our little models hold so much value.
i guess part of why the value is holding is it is becoming clear that some models will not be made again for a long time.... for example dapol FEA-B container flats have increased nicely in value as it doesn't look as tough a re run will happen soon
that said, the price of dapol weathered silver bullets got a bit silly last year (going for over £35 a pop in ebay) looks even more silly now as dapol did do a new run of them :)
and unlike cutting edge techwhich is out of date the moment you get it home the n gauge stuff of recent years will be very hard to beat at the price / quality of look it is at the moment (i think :))
It depends... With todays small-batch production, certain liveries or identities that are particularly saught after fetch a higher price 2nd hand than others; some reaching close to their original retail price.
Prime examples were LMR Crimson Jubilees which at one point were fetching up to £30 more than BR Green ones, and Black 08s which seem to fetch around £10-15 more than others.
What type/livery was your DMU? I'm not aware of anything other than a few special editions that are currently trading at any notable premium...
It's a strange sort of a market. There is quite a lot of fluctuation in price at the box shifters, so what the current price is may not reflect what the price was even quite recently. For example for a few months the Express Parcels 101 was going for £69, now it's £98. So you could be selling one now for £70 s/h and look quite reasonable, whereas a few months ago...
Occasionally I buy 2nd hand items from my local model shop. The prices are often only 10% or 15% less than new. I was told that they quite often get unsold items from other shops which they cannot shift. So the 2nd hand items are in fact brand new. So you can get brand new items a bit cheaper - but no warranty. You takes your choice??
They also have a lot of 2nd hand stock which are items, sold to them by people who are giving up N gauge (heaven forbid), that have virtually never been used. Again - a bit cheaper but no warranty.
Having said that, the local shop I'm talking about doesn't quibble if I have a problem. They've exchanged items I didn't like with no problem. Mind you I spend loads of money there so maybe they're just keeping me sweet.
And the model shop is??
Quote from: Railwaygun on January 04, 2015, 10:15:12 PM
And the model shop is??
And the model shop is.... :thumbsup:
Alton Model centre in Alton Hampshire - and.. I don't have shares in them.
:claphappy:
Alton Model Shop has a new man in charge, Bob has retired apparently. The new man (Paul, I think) seemed quite eager to please when I visited last week.
Pete @ EGLM
Let's look at Dapol class 73 locomotives in Pullman livery going second hand (Brighton Evening Argus + Royal Alex) both fetch well over £140! More than double their original RRP.
A good barometer of how much second hand stuff is on the market is Hattons. Many may have noticed their listing of second hand items on their website amongst all their brand new RtR stuff.
On the whole N Gauge second hand stuff in good nick tends to fetch a healthy price these days. Markets and tastes do change however ::)
Quote from: Pete @ EGLM on January 04, 2015, 10:46:02 PM
Alton Model Shop has a new man in charge, Bob has retired apparently. The new man (Paul, I think) seemed quite eager to please when I visited last week.
Pete @ EGLM
Yes that's right. I think its Bob's son. He does seem keen. But, they no longer open on Monday and only one Sunday a month.
Do they still have that funny looking little bloke who stands by the door and watches you constantly to make sure you don't steal anything? Apologies if he's a good friend of yours but he is a funny looking little bloke.
Say what you like, but I bet you've never managed to steal anything... :laughabovepost:
Quote from: Trainfish on January 04, 2015, 11:42:13 PM
Do they still have that funny looking little bloke who stands by the door and watches you constantly to make sure you don't steal anything? Apologies if he's a good friend of yours but he is a funny looking little bloke.
I haven't seen him for a few months now - I think he was one of Bob's little helpers and definitely not watching to see if you steal anything. ;D
The other thing to remember is that the prices for new N gauge are rising quite steeply at the moment due to various factors. This tends to pull 2nd hand prices along with them (assuming boxed, good condition etc).
I started a similar thread to this about six months ago. I remember it drew an undercurrent of ire with the odd "mis"-interpretation that to be interested in the second hand value of your locos was somehow connected to them being an investment. I found that bizarre, so the thread didn't really go anywhere.
That said, I do find them to be an investment. Not a financial one, but an investment in my well being and sanity - an investment that removes me from the things which stress me (for example, I take real pleasure in working on my trains when I know it's rush hour outside and I'm happily indoors doing something I enjoy, not getting caught up in the rate race). I do understand, however, that the luxury of time affords this pleasure.
Ok, getting back on topic, I agree with Karhedron that new prices will pull up secondhand prices. Also, an increase in the price of spares will pull up prices, since cannibalisation becomes more attractive.
I think there is also a seasonal effect, with prices (on eBay) being higher towards Xmas and during times of poor weather.
I think the psychology of eBay and auctions is such that people get sucked in and overpay. If I were buying Bachmann models (which I rarely do) then I'd be tempted to buy from a retailer than take the chance with eBay. Buying Poole stock I don't really have much choice.
Cheers
Dan
Quote from: PLD on January 04, 2015, 08:39:21 PM
It depends... With todays small-batch production, certain liveries or identities that are particularly saught after fetch a higher price 2nd hand than others; some reaching close to their original retail price.
Prime examples were LMR Crimson Jubilees which at one point were fetching up to £30 more than BR Green ones, and Black 08s which seem to fetch around £10-15 more than others.
What type/livery was your DMU? I'm not aware of anything other than a few special editions that are currently trading at any notable premium...
I'd have thought that BR Green DMUs would realise the best values since they sell out the fastest and don't seem to come up for sale very often.
Although I don't view my models as an investment it is nice to think that they would be worth something if the worst happened and I needed to sell some to raise a bit of cash.
Quote from: austinbob on January 05, 2015, 08:25:46 AM
Quote from: Trainfish on January 04, 2015, 11:42:13 PM
Do they still have that funny looking little bloke who stands by the door and watches you constantly to make sure you don't steal anything? Apologies if he's a good friend of yours but he is a funny looking little bloke.
I haven't seen him for a few months now - I think he was one of Bob's little helpers and definitely not watching to see if you steal anything. ;D
A bit like one of Santa's elves then? He probably wasn't watching for thieves, he just gave that impression the way he'd stay near the door especially if you were looking in the N gauge cabinet just inside the door on the left.
Luke, you're right, I never did manage to steal anything. Not that I would try to you understand.
Quote from: d-a-n on January 04, 2015, 08:09:42 PM
I recently part-exchanged a DMU in a shop and was surprised at how much of the cost was recovered considering the fact you'll never get top dollar from a selling it in this way.
Some of the prices in the secondhand section on here surprise me, being very close to what you can just buy it for new. I've even seen a few things exceeding the cost that it would be from a retailler!
Do you find that newer, looked after N gauge holds it's value quite well? I understand it'll never be an investment but having had cars and cameras for a hobby, it's surprising to see our little models hold so much value.
I had all the space 1999 Dinky Eagle transporters and Thunderbird stuff when i was younger and my Mum put it all in a box one day and gave it to her friends son,
I also had Leicester city football programme's from 1982 up to 1995 and gave them to a lad in our Village,
Then Ebay was formed and i have been banging my head ever since.
Mark
Quote from: mark100 on January 05, 2015, 03:18:47 PM
Quote from: d-a-n on January 04, 2015, 08:09:42 PM
I recently part-exchanged a DMU in a shop and was surprised at how much of the cost was recovered considering the fact you'll never get top dollar from a selling it in this way.
Some of the prices in the secondhand section on here surprise me, being very close to what you can just buy it for new. I've even seen a few things exceeding the cost that it would be from a retailler!
Do you find that newer, looked after N gauge holds it's value quite well? I understand it'll never be an investment but having had cars and cameras for a hobby, it's surprising to see our little models hold so much value.
I had all the space 1999 Dinky Eagle transporters and Thunderbird stuff when i was younger and my Mum put it all in a box one day and gave it to her friends son,
I also had Leicester city football programme's from 1982 up to 1995 and gave them to a lad in our Village,
Then Ebay was formed and i have been banging my head ever since.
Mark
Ah well Mark, look at it this way, you probably kept someone's heating bill down that year by passing on all those Leicester City programmes :laughabovepost:
Quote from: PLD on January 04, 2015, 08:39:21 PM
What type/livery was your DMU? I'm not aware of anything other than a few special editions that are currently trading at any notable premium...
Just a boggo blue grey one!
I had a clear out last year, on average (before eBay fee deduction) I experienced that boxed, mint items fetched around 75-85% of original cost.
Discontinued boxed, mint items fetched over 90% and in some cases over 100%.
Nice to know there's a 'bank' of money sat there if needs must (although some stock is marked off limits).
Has anyone experience of selling a collection to the likes of Hattons or Rails? I'm interested in how they compare with going to your local shop, especially if you are thinking about trading-in for other models. Don't think I can face ebay or individual sales.
Quote from: Sea Mills on January 05, 2015, 09:01:12 PM
Has anyone experience of selling a collection to the likes of Hattons or Rails? I'm interested in how they compare with going to your local shop, especially if you are thinking about trading-in for other models. Don't think I can face ebay or individual sales.
I sold a batch to Hattons late last year. I knew the 2nd hand value so was pretty prepped. Was quite surprised however how little they offered compared to how much they appeared on the web site the next day though!!!!
I've always found Hattons expensive though they do have the stock. I'm a bit miffed with them over second-hand though: I had to return something which was appalling and after a 400 mile drive I made the excuse to go in and see some 2nd hand stuff (with about £300 worth of in mind off the website)...........................Just to be found it's not available in the shop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They apparently have a separate warehouse, it can all be brought to the shop for viewing if you say beforehand , but they don't advertise this! That's not good enough, I thought I was seeing before I bought -otherwise no better than ebay.
I did ask them very politely on e-mail afterwards to include a statement on their website saying pretty much all the n-gauge used stock was off-site but I just got a fob-off e-mail back. I had cash in hand to see it running first (not unreasonable) -but just walked out the shop as other sources are just as good / cheaper. I was very disappointed -they're not the homage I thought they were.
I've bought a few things off Rails of Sheffield before via E-Bay, my best buyer so far to be honest has been OO Heaven on E-Bay.
...it's all a lottery anyway -I just tested 4 locos I bought over a year ago from reputable sources and if I had the chance to test them at the time, 3 would have gone back! Stuck with the duds now.
Hi All
A few points here
Hatton's are very expensive for their second hand items so they are selling on their reputation. It is very frustrating that they mix their second hand with their new items on the web site as I am only looking for new stock and it only goes to show how over priced the second hand items are!
For new items in general Hatton's are now not any cheaper than a competitive retailer and this may be down to the loss of The Signal Box. Noted that Model Railways Direct may be taking this place in the market as they do good deals in their sales promotions and wagons and coaches are better priced than Hatton's
I have never found Rails of Sheffield price competitive but do understand their good level of service but Hatton's are now on par with them on price
The thing I do not understand is the reluctance of some people to buy on e-bay, yes a lot of over bid items but some significant bargains if you keep sharp. 70% of my stock bought of e-bay and the odd duffer is just sent back to the seller or a deal done on a part refund. Your are just as likely to get a duff loco new which will need to be sent back away!
The rule I apply to e-bay is pay up to about 60% of price charged by the box shifters for an as new item
:confused1:
Quote from: Rabbitaway on January 07, 2015, 04:09:01 PM
The thing I do not understand is the reluctance of some people to buy on e-bay, yes a lot of over bid items but some significant bargains if you keep sharp. 70% of my stock bought of e-bay and the odd duffer is just sent back to the seller or a deal done on a part refund. Your are just as likely to get a duff loco new which will need to be sent back away!
The rule I apply to e-bay is pay up to about 60% of price charged by the box shifters for an as new item
I think the reluctance to use ebay is probably due to the horror stories you read about things like items not being delivered after payment is made; Difficulty in getting ebay to sort out payment and delivery errors; Difficulty in getting refunds after items are returned. etc. etc.
I am pretty computer savvy having grown up with them since the PC first appeared for public consumption and I buy nearly everything N gauge and loads of other stuff on the internet but I don't feel that I trust ebay. Probably unfounded but there you are - I'm sure there are other members of this forum who may feel the same. :hmmm:
Quote from: austinbob on January 07, 2015, 04:47:10 PM
Quote from: Rabbitaway on January 07, 2015, 04:09:01 PM
The thing I do not understand is the reluctance of some people to buy on e-bay, yes a lot of over bid items but some significant bargains if you keep sharp. 70% of my stock bought of e-bay and the odd duffer is just sent back to the seller or a deal done on a part refund. Your are just as likely to get a duff loco new which will need to be sent back away!
The rule I apply to e-bay is pay up to about 60% of price charged by the box shifters for an as new item
I think the reluctance to use ebay is probably due to the horror stories you read about things like items not being delivered after payment is made; Difficulty in getting ebay to sort out payment and delivery errors; Difficulty in getting refunds after items are returned. etc. etc.
I am pretty computer savvy having grown up with them since the PC first appeared for public consumption and I buy nearly everything N gauge and loads of other stuff on the internet but I don't feel that I trust ebay. Probably unfounded but there you are - I'm sure there are other members of this forum who may feel the same. :hmmm:
Nail. Head. Correct AustinBob.
Hi
Dishonesty on e-bay can be up setting, I may just have been lucky but the majority of sellers are genuine and I have experienced sellers going beyond what they needed to do when things go wrong
Good sellers are very protective of their feedback rating and this is always a good indicator
I did buy a loco that failed after a day and the seller refunded within an hour and said just to keep the loco!
I can't see any problem buying on eBay...just buy from top rated sellers...if you have a problem (which in my last 174 transactions i have had none!)...just raise a claim...most people are honest like you and I !......only problem is it is too easy to buy!
Quote from: sparky on January 07, 2015, 07:02:36 PM
I can't see any problem buying on eBay...just buy from top rated sellers...if you have a problem (which in my last 174 transactions i have had none!)...just raise a claim...most people are honest like you and I !......only problem is it is too easy to buy!
Sparky you're probably right - might try it on something small first eh!
QuoteNoted that Model Railways Direct may be taking this place in the market as they do good deals in their sales promotions
Good to see a positive mention of MRD. I go to them first online and then drive down the M5 to visit if they are, say, within a fiver after postage on the opposition.
Well stocked shop and their service is always very polite. Same goes for their show presence, the lady who sold me some wagons on their Warley stand this year could not have been more helpful. Plus on that occasion they undercut Dapol :thumbsup:
Not affiliated in any way, just a happy customer.
Skyline2uk
Being just across the severn bridge I too have used MRD and find them very helpful..hattons prices are not always the best and to be honest I just buy from the cheapest retailer item by item and find the service pretty much the same from them all.
Yes, liking MRD
Competition is good for the buyer!
Noted that people tend to compare retailers on loco prices but we buy a lot of rolling stock we should be looking at these prices as well particularly if we buy in one lot to cover postage
Anyway is this tread not about second hand values and I have taken it of the track!!!!
:laughabovepost:
Quote
Anyway is this tread not about second hand values and I have taken it of the track!!!!
Indeed, allow me to set the road back onto the topic....
Personally, as I very nearly paid £100 plus for one a few years back, I wonder what will happen to the consistently high prices for NSE 101s when the new one finally emerges? Granted the new one is only 2 cars, but it should be much better?
Oh, and I am really hoping a new NSE 159 turns up at some point.....but that's another thread....
Skyline2uk
QuoteHatton's are very expensive for their second hand items so they are selling on their reputation. It is very frustrating that they mix their second hand with their new items on the web site as I am only looking for new stock and it only goes to show how over priced the second hand items are!
...you can filter out their second hand stock by looking separate and they do list when it's second hand so I don't find it that bad at all. But I must admit if you go by manufacturer I have said it before, it's quite comical they often offer second hand at more than new prices!! THAT said, I have never phoned up to ask if they did offers -but it's not a good advert for me anyway.
Half my stock is from E-Bay though I notice this past year the bargains just aren't there these days. Some retailers advertise better than others, and mark-ups are different so on the whole I am very glad to see the 2n'd hand market opening up as long as it's honest listings.
I think there is less quality stuff on auction, but more bits and pieces being cleared out. There is of course the Manor or Western, purely for for example and there always will be some good stuff, but I'm certain the volume of good stuff being auctioned has diminished. Masses of buy it now, but often at prices in excess of the so called box shifters. Much of my stock was purchased from ebay but I can go weeks now without making a purchase, even though I watch it daily. Still, it's a good source of entertainment given the starting prices some put, the so called "rare" items, and the bids that are made for some easily available stuff. Perhaps the economic situation, which I consider to be ongoing has meant people are hanging on to good stuff and not replacing with the latest offerings. The price hikes by Farish may have something to do with this...
Yes, I agree good deals on e-bay are harder to find now
I think you are right that second hand prices are being driven up by the increases in new items
:(
A lot of used stuff on Ebay is now costing almost as much as new, in some cases you'd be better off
buying new from a dealer, unless you're after an item which is no longer produced. The last item I bought from Ebay was a tiny Fleischmann 0-4 -0 tank for £19 + postage from Germany, took a gamble, but it was in near mint condition and sent signed for . Some bargains sometimes lurking in dusty corners of model shops , but not many . The thing with Ebay , not confined to model rail stuff, is the bidding gets frenzied when people get caught up in auction fever then in the cold light of day realise for
a couple of quid extra they could have got the goods new .
Further to last post did some research eg used Farish LMS Stanier coach, Ebay buy it now inc post £29,
new from Hattons £23 inc post. Strange when you consider Hattons price includes VAT at the full rate
while used on Ebay may have no VAT or reduced VAT for s/h goods.
Of course as mentioned elsewhere Hattons' used stuff quite pricey as well!
I'm heartened that others share my views on the "peculiarities" of ebay.
You really do need to be clued up on new prices as there are plenty of listings where the buy it now prices are IMHO,well, opportunist. If you decide to look at auction listings only then the number of entries drops considerably without the buy it now option.
I think the bidding frenzies can have a knock on effect. If you sale something for in excess of your wildest dreams then you are sort of cash rich. When you are after something chances are you will bid much more than you would have if you were not cash rich. It only takes another bidder or two, or three, in the same situation and then a bidding frenzy can emerge. And so it goes on.
I would quite like two or three of the later Bach-Far Hall chassis, for use with some white metal kits I want to finally make and super detail. However the ebay price of a Hall loco has risen steeply in recent months. I can't understand why, as compared to releases of the last few years, such as the Dapol Hall, they are seriously devoid of detail. I do scratch my head over this.
I bought a pair of second hand Stanier coaches for £11 about 6 months ago with sensible postage
Unboxed but very good
They were listed as "n gauge coaches" so this helped them stay unnoticed by bidders
"Buy it now" is a waste of time for model rail stuff
Quote from: trkilliman on January 12, 2015, 01:50:28 PM
I'm heartened that others share my views on the "peculiarities" of ebay.
You really do need to be clued up on new prices
If it's something I'm not certain of, I always have a second tab open to my favourite box shifter so I can compare new > old prices instantly where possible.
Quote from: trkilliman on January 12, 2015, 01:50:28 PM
I would quite like two or three of the later Bach-Far Hall chassis, for use with some white metal kits I want to finally make and super detail. However the ebay price of a Hall loco has risen steeply in recent months. I can't understand why, as compared to releases of the last few years, such as the Dapol Hall, they are seriously devoid of detail. I do scratch my head over this.
The OO9 (4mm narrow gauge) market is a likely reason for the high second-hand prices of many old locomotives, even those that are "obsolete". A lot of OO9 loco kits are designed to use specific N gauge chassis, many of which haven't been in production for ages, and some are very sought after for this reason despite being of dubious merit as N gauge models (the Bachmann US 0-4-0 dock tank is an example).
However, I can't imagine Hall chassis having much appeal to OO9 modellers. There aren't that many narrow gauge steam locos with that wheel size/configuration and no outside valve gear.