:hellosign:
I am planning a layout and when considering what locos I should invest in I have an alarming problem. I have read many comments about Dapol. Some people have to send their locos back for replacement (often more than once) due to poor performance. I have read things like the Dapol 45XX derails it's pony truck on points. Is there a problem? It is pity because Dapol locos look really good and well proportioned.
Could people give me their thoughts and opinions on this please. I would be very grateful.
I don't think Dapol are any worse than Farish but in my opinion the quality of either is not very good. I have about 15 or so locos and around 50& have had some issues and 2 eventually were returned under warranty.
Don't let that put you off though. N gauge is ideal for getting a lot of railway oin a small space. Its just a bit of hassle to get things fixed.
I've got about 60 locos, a mix of Farish and Dapol, and again, I'm not impressed with recent products from either manufacturer. I've never returned a loco (yet) but have plenty which are not great runners and thus seldom get used, despite having had many hours of running in.
I have to say that the best runners are my older Farish locos from the mid 90s to early 2000s. I find them easier to maintain and keep clean compared to newer models, with Dapols being especially more tricky. The detail and looks on the newer products, Dapol's in particular is fantastic, but running quality is very hit and miss.
That said, I agree with the above posts in that N Gauge is a great space saver and provides a huge amount of fun, so stick with it. Also, the help on this forum is great, especially when asking about tinkering with locos etc..
The main issue I have with Dapol locos is I find they (for the most part) require quite a lot more than 1 hour running in (or as Dr Al puts it - wearing out).
That said, and you specifically mention the 45xx, I have one of the first generation ones and it's one of my best runners although the smallest points I have are the Peco code 55 small electrofrogs.
Also depends on what sort of motive power you are considering, I have had lots of issues with Dapol kettles but very few with their diseasals. my class 22s are all superb as are the clas 67s and the class 66s I had before I sold them on. the 45xx/Ivatt/M7 I would not touch with a barge pole, had several of each, got rid of them and although would love to have models of these classes on my ,ayout will not be buying more unless they revamp them properly!!
best wishes and MERRY CHRISTMAS
Simon
Hi Dapol do more than just locos and I have found stock to be very good - odd livery errors excepted but are now getting better with plenty of running numbers and ready weathered as well as cohices.
Steam locos do vary it seems but DCC supplies as the spares and repairs do provide good warranty service and retail spares -but these are short supply items despite efforts from UK to the Chinese factories - makes you wonder on customer service !! I have two 9F and some A4s and no problems but not run that much.
Diesels the early efforts on 73, 66 and Voyager work but can have loud transmission which is engergy lost - a shame as visually top notch. Later 66,67, 86, 35, 22 56, 58 in no order have better chassis but it is only on the 52 where the PCB is fair, but batches have had wheels with some sort of crud on them that needs cleaning and a few with wobbly wheels - test in shop is the advice.
HST - beware as you will see reports of duff lighting but this is due to lighting being specified to prototype arrangements. generally good runners and stock to make trains is alomst complete with TGS just around the corner. Some more stock to make complete sets as early batches sold quickly...
The latest Arriva 67 and bookset plus additional coaches now in the market place and allow in one shot buying a complete train... progress
I have no problem in recommending Dapol and Farish stock as being good having modelled, collected and messed about with repairs of both manufacturers for 30 odd years, come on in and join the N fun, this forum will help and provide hours of fun - it does slow down my modelling!!! but in a good way
Robert
Sadly I am one of the unlucky Dapol owners. Their Wagons and coaches are great but in my experience their locos are rather variable. It has made me very nervous about buying more. My experience with Farish however has been the complete opposite. Totally accept that others will have had better/worse experiences but I can only speak as I find.
Paddy
Quote from: Paddy on December 18, 2014, 07:13:17 PM
Sadly I am one of the unlucky Dapol owners. Their Wagons and coaches are great but in my experience their locos are rather variable. It has made me very nervous about buying more. My experience with Farish however has been the complete opposite. Totally accept that others will have had better/worse experiences but I can only speak as I find.
Paddy
Paddy it just seems to be pot luck. You seem to get goodens and baddens from Dapol and Farish. I've said it in many posts before, and I'm sure a lot of people are getting :censored: of with me saying it, but I just don't think the quality control is good enough. We shouldn't have to accept the level of faults and failures we get. We wouldn't accept it from any other type of product, would we?
I'd rather spend a bit more knowing I'm gonna get a fault free, reliable product that works out of the box. To quote Dulux, it should do what it says on the tin!!
Totally agree Bob. However we are paying more but quality remains an issue sadly.
Paddy
I have just been reading that even Dulux have been having a problem with thier Briliant White turning Yellow so even that dose not do what it says on the tin
Sorry off topic but couldn't resist.
Bob
Quote from: Bob Tidbury on December 18, 2014, 07:44:26 PM
I have just been reading that even Dulux have been having a problem with thier Briliant White turning Yellow so even that dose not do what it says on the tin
Sorry off topic but couldn't resist.
Bob
Do you know what Bob... You can go off people!! :P
:sorrysign:
Gentlemen, please forgive me but isn't it Ronseal that says, "it does exactly what it says on the tin?" or am I missing something? Is this the reason my fences look a bit tatty?
Many thanks for all the thoughts. My main concern is about using the chassis for scratchbuilds.
Chris.
P.S. My plans are beginning to take some sort of form, albeit a strange one.
Most of my locos are diesels I have several 66 67 60 47 being a mix of Dapol and GF, only one been sent back as a complete turkey, probably one of the best is Dapol Western so solid and a great runner.
New GF DRS 33 is impressiveas well.
Quote from: georgehgv on December 18, 2014, 08:18:12 PM
New GF DRS 33 is impressiveas well.
Not sure that should be 33, George :no:
Quote from: chrispearce on December 18, 2014, 08:16:45 PM
:sorrysign:
Gentlemen, please forgive me but isn't it Ronseal that says, "it does exactly what it says on the tin?" or am I missing something? Is this the reason my fences look a bit tatty?
No Chris, your not missing something. Its just me missing a few brain cells. Not many left now!!
Quote from: austinbob on December 18, 2014, 09:27:12 PM
Quote from: chrispearce on December 18, 2014, 08:16:45 PM
:sorrysign:
Gentlemen, please forgive me but isn't it Ronseal that says, "it does exactly what it says on the tin?" or am I missing something? Is this the reason my fences look a bit tatty?
No Chris, your not missing something. Its just me missing a few brain cells. Not many left now!!
That's what comes of not ventilating sufficiently when painting ;)
For the record I've got three Dapol motive power units. The class 58 is excellent, both from a visual and running perspective. The class 86 is pretty good too, no complaints (the worst I can say is that it seems to have developed a slight case of wheel squeak but nothing dramatic). HST - looks great, lacks oomph; although it has improved after I fiddled about with the dummy power car which was very stiff, even my squid DMU (the one in my avatar, which was 2nd hand and could do with maintenance) outperforms it.
If internet reports are to be believed, Dapol target specific individual modellers and ensure that they end up with all the duds, whereas others are favoured and only get the best quality products... :hmmm:
The reality is Dapol more than any other manufacturer (in any scale) seems to generate more extreme opinion either for or against... In my experience failure rates due to manufacturing or QC issues are no better or worse than others, but they are more vulnerable to inappropriate handling and user inflicted damage, particularly the steam locos.
There also have been some silly errors with liveries and detailing on the rolling stock that have let down otherwise very good models.
Quote from: PLD on December 18, 2014, 11:00:33 PM
If internet reports are to be believed, Dapol target specific individual modellers and ensure that they end up with all the duds, whereas others are favoured and only get the best quality products... :hmmm:
The reality is Dapol more than any other manufacturer (in any scale) seems to generate more extreme opinion either for or against... In my experience failure rates due to manufacturing or QC issues are no better or worse than others, but they are more vulnerable to inappropriate handling and user inflicted damage, particularly the steam locos.
There also have been some silly errors with liveries and detailing on the rolling stock that have let down otherwise very good models.
Your have hit the nail on the head about the locos (especially steam) being vulnerable. They are very delicate indeed. The con rods and valve gear are paper thin and can be bent out of shape by rough handling. Cylinder drain cocks are a very vulnerable detail item.
I agree with PLD and Elvinley, Dapol products especially steam locos need to be carefully handled.
I also think that trackwork needs to be good for steam locos and for N gauge in general. Derailment of front bogies seems to be the main problem.
One thing the manufacturers can't control is the quality of the users track work.
:ngauge:
A good point! :smackedface:
For my little experience with Dapol locos, the only one problematic is Class 56...it is too slow, very slow ....the others (Class 67 , SUPERB!, Class 58, Class 86 , Class 66', a little bit light and DMU 156) running happy on my layout....
For steam fleet (A4, A3 ,Class 49 and Pannier)...no problems 'til now..
P.s ...Class 86 is a "bull"...was running on our social club layout for 4/5 hours without interruption
Greetings from Italy
Marco
On quality there is little to choose between Dapol and Farish (or Minitrix or Fleischmann to name but two), with the probable exception of the 45xx which was early in Dapol's learning curve and shows it.
However with Farish if anyone sticks their head over the parapet to report a problem the torrent of post is to deny such a thing can possibly happen. If an issue is reported on a Dapol product the torrent of post is to rubbish Dapol and state this fault proves Dapol can't possibly do anything right.
There are also cases of outright denial that Dapol products CAN work well. Example- "M7s can't run slowly"- at The NGS exhibition and AGM at Grimsby Trevor Webster and I used two Dapol M7s to shunt the yard of "Parnhams Maltings" as they were the only locos we had that were controllable enough to position Peco droppers over the electromagnets while moving over a setrack point. The preferred option of Farish 04s was abandoned as both kept stalling. At least two of those who watched this happening are STILL saying loudly that a Dapol M7 can't run slowly.
My current fleet of Dapol locos number about three dozen with roughly the same number of Farish and a dozen or so UM. Add to that a substantial Continental fleet, a dozen Japanese and German trams and a few US survivors. The only stand-out amongst all these for reliability is Union Mills- and that includes some very expensive overseas models.
All the very best
Les
My early experience of Dapol wasn't good. A dead on arrival 66, a waddling, clicking M7 and a B17 that makes nasty growling noises on bends which I think comes from the drive shaft but haven't been able to resolve. Is this a symptom of their drive shaft steamers with tenders? 3 purchases all naff was enough to put me off, (I'd put myself in the group of modellers Dapol sell their duff mdels to!) but I thought I'd chance the EWS manager's train pack when it was released. Superb runner. So I tried a few more ... Another 67, 2 66s, 2 58s, 2 57xx, 2 HSTs, 2 rather noisy but otherwise ok 73s, a 153, a 156, a 14xx and 45 xx both bought second hand and a terrier. All are fine and nice lookers too. I haven't bought another tender loco tho'...yet! Also about a dozen coaches all fitted with light bars :thumbsup:
Must say I've never had a duff Farish loco (touch wood!) of about 40 purchases.
I have no qualms about buying from either manfacturer. If a model is faulty, it goes back for replacement or refund as any other purchase.
C. :)
PS replaced the clicking M7 with another which still clicked a bit but after extensive running is silky smooth and quiet. One of my favourite locos (LSWR livery)
I only have one Dapol loco, a 14xx which runs perfectly and is not as feeble as often stated.
However there always seem to be a lot of gripes about Dapol . Whether you buy a tv,
washing machine or model loco of whatever make it should run properly out of the box.
UM locos are smooth running , reliable and powerful, perhaps not as finely detailed as other
makes , but excellent and good value.
...oh, and a 22 which I think is their best model! In fact, since my initial disappointment, I haven't had a duff Dapol model since!
C. :bounce:
I think their recent diesels are excellent, both in looks and running qualities.
Quote from: Les1952 on December 19, 2014, 10:26:45 AMThere are also cases of outright denial that Dapol products CAN work well. Example- "M7s can't run slowly"- at The NGS exhibition and AGM at Grimsby Trevor Webster and I used two Dapol M7s to shunt the yard of "Parnhams Maltings" as they were the only locos we had that were controllable enough to position Peco droppers over the electromagnets while moving over a setrack point. The preferred option of Farish 04s was abandoned as both kept stalling. At least two of those who watched this happening are STILL saying loudly that a Dapol M7 can't run slowly.
...
Les
Hi Les,
My Dapol M7 runs very well and slowly too (well slow enough for me). Mind you, it did take two replacements to get one that ran and/or did not have assembly problems.
Paddy
May be it is time I took another punt on a Dapol loco - I would like an Ivatt 2MT...
Paddy
My experience of Dapol locos are;
9F - Runs beautifully and has done straight from the box, even though both of the loco to tender wires have snapped so it only picks up from the tender wheels.
7P - Again, runs beautifully like the 9F. Loco to tender wires have snapped, but as they are the improved screw on design, have been replaced (and then the broken ones are quite easy to repair).
Class 121 DMU - Managed about 30mins running each way then stopped dead, never to move again. Seller refunded my money as they didn't have another green one with SYP.
A4 - First one growled, clicked and finally the valve gear jammed. The replacement is still noisy and now has an annoying wobble after I had to replace the traction tyres.
Class 22 (unweathered) - Like the 9F & 7P, runs beautifully if a little bit growly.
Class 22 (weathered) - Bought direct from Dapol with the milk tankers. Runs quite smoothly now (didn't at first in one direction see http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=25180.msg270804#msg270804 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=25180.msg270804#msg270804)), and runs hot compared to the unweathered one. I'm going to keep hold of it over the Christmas period, DCC it and alter its speed curve to reduce the maximum speed to more like prototypical (it gets hotter the faster it is run) and give it a bit more running. If it doesn't get any better, I'll probably just send it to DCC Supplies and get it seen to under warranty.
Just to add my two penny worth as someone fairly new to N gauge.
I have a mix of Dapol, Farish, and UM locomotives.
Have had a few problems with each, but when it comes to steam I am sticking with UM in the future because of the solidity of build and pulling power (the lack of fine detail doesn't bother me).
My favourite Farish diesel is the D1 Prototype, and of the Dapol diesels the Class 27.
Still having a few problems with one of the new Dapol "Westerns", and the Farish Class 25/3, although it has no running lights I Like, and mine is a bit noisy, but is one of the best for hauling a rake of goods wagons up a fairly steep slope without slipping.
Regarding the Class 25 - I would love another of the more recent additions - but which is the best one to go for - the 25/1 or 25/2?
Hi All
I only have one Dapol steam B1 and that seems fine
I have few desiels and electrics and all run fine but they are very prone to blowing lights three locos with failed lights and one repaired when wire came off due to poor soldering
I do note that my class 58 is a very slow runner although they are low geared it does seem particularly slow
The only exception is the 220 Voyager which has so much friction in the bogies that it drags itself along!
Quote from: Rabbitaway on December 19, 2014, 06:15:11 PMI do note that my class 58 is a very slow runner although they are low geared it does seem particularly slow
I haven't measured the scale speed but it is a freight locomotive, and seems to have a realistic top speed, unlike some stock I have which will fly around the track at an implausible pace.
As mentioned before that can be issues with the lighting on the HSTs. i have had two failed reversing lights on the motor car of two HSTs. The issue was the steering diodes which I was able to replace on one car but not yet on the other (as it blew a hole in the PCB)
The quality of Dapol's soldering of the SMDs and the steering diodes was very poor - even worse than mine and that is saying something :o
I have also noticed a number of HSTs being advertised on eBay with failed lights.
The HSTs also have a tendency to uncouple after a few circuits round the track.
I'm afraid my experience of Dapol has not been very good :(
I have two Class 66s. One old design one new. Both run really well especially at slow speed. One has a DN125 decoder and one a Lenz Silver mini. Both will go from the mainline through to the cement works dropping from a scale 20 mph to 10 mph with no problems.
I also have a pair of 73s again both lovely smooth runners.
I am very happy with my Dapol locos..
I have 3 class 56's and a blue western...all run very well and the detailing is good..the 56 are slow runners due to their gearing but are great for long freights and run smoothly at slow speeds..I run my 56 with 28 has wagons with loads using dz125/126 chips.