Am I Going Nuts ?
I have been out of N Gauge for a while and forgotten much of what I once knew, servicing Farish locos is one of the things I have forgot, I want to find out what is the best grease for the old style plastic gears so what do I do Ah the Knowledge Bank will tell me, but wait it told me nowt.
I looked under "O" for Oil, nowt
I looked under "G" for Grease, nowt
I looked under "S" for Servicing Locos, nowt
I looked under "L" for Loco Servicing, nowt
I looked under "F" for Farish Service, Nowt
I looked under "G" for Grafar, nowt
I tried doing a Search but found nothing relevant, now it may be 57 years since I went to school in Birmingham and I may suffer from some illiteracy and composition problems but finding out something that simple should not be that hard.
So can anyone help me by telling me what is the best grease for plastic gears ? do I put a drop of oil on the motor bearings etc, any help is much appreciated.
Try L for Lubrication
Quote from: Railwaygun on November 01, 2014, 10:19:04 PM
Try L for Lubrication
I tried "L" for Lubrication and found nothing, also tried your link but it was a general Yahoo page not railway oriented, also I am not a Yahoo member.
I did find out on the www that Teflon Cycle grease is best for plastic gears so I will give that a try.
Having been a long term member on this forum I would have thought servicing Farish locos info would have been easy to find, I know something must be on the forum but its hard to find.
Still need help with oiling motor bearings or not.
I just remembered that forum member Deserthound's major interest in the hobby is maintenance... over to you, buddy!
Type "oiling" into the search box of
Search, then fill your boots as there is at least five pages on the subject.
Quote from: Bealman on November 01, 2014, 11:03:09 PM
I just remembered that forum member Deserthound's major interest in the hobby is maintenance... over to you, buddy!
.... not forgetting Dr Al of course ;)
This topic is likely to be very useful, http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=17733.0 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=17733.0)
Quote from: Jack on November 02, 2014, 09:37:21 AM
Type "oiling" into the search box of Search, then fill your boots as there is at least five pages on the subject
Or Lubrication!!
Quote from: Railwaygun on November 02, 2014, 12:35:50 PM
Quote from: Jack on November 02, 2014, 09:37:21 AM
Type "oiling" into the search box of Search, then fill your boots as there is at least five pages on the subject
Or Lubrication!!
Two different words, two different results. To you and me (humans) they have the same meaning, to a basic computerised database they are different thereby giving different results.
The proof of the pudding and all that.... are in the results.
Hi Dave
I'll give you my opinions, but I'm happy if others muck in with their own, some of which might be different.
Oiling of gears
I have the following, both of which I find fine ...
http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=GM619&style=main&strType=tools&Mcode=Gaugemaster+GM619 (http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=GM619&style=main&strType=tools&Mcode=Gaugemaster+GM619)
http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=GM667&style=main&strType=tools&Mcode=Gaugemaster+GM667 (http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=GM667&style=main&strType=tools&Mcode=Gaugemaster+GM667)
Whatever you do, don't apply the oil straight to the gears from the applicator. High chance of "flooding" and then you'll have too much oil, which you don't want. A needle is all you need, touched against the end of the applicator to pick up a drop of oil. One drop on each visible gear is enough. Basicially, don't over oil them.
A friend of mine uses motor oil, left over from an oil change of the car (obviously the dribbles left in the new can, not what's taken out!) He swears by this and I have no reason to doubt him. He mentions it has to be synthetic and not too thick. He's mentioned it on these boards before.
Personally I'd like to get hold of some Daywat (as originally used in the Graham Farish factory). Some others on here mention Mager oil as well. Also not being in the UK, I just go with what I've got for now, but will get some of the above when next making a visit. In conclusion Dave, motor oil would be fine, just apply with a pin, make sure it's synthetic and not too thick. Otherwise what I use I've also found to be fine.
Oiling motor bearings
The bearings are apparently self lubricating (others on here should be able to tell you) although I like to oil mine. The level of difficulty in oiling the bearings depends upon if you actually dismantle your chassis for servicing or not. A strip down will allow you to get a needle tip right to where you need it - where the shaft goes through the bearing. If you just wish to oil the bearings by popping the body off then you can get to most bearings (depending upon the chassis) but it's fiddly and you'll have to have a steady hand to get that drop exactly where you need it. Also, the odd bearing might not be accessible. It can often be the case that the needle tip with the oil on it touches some other part of the chassis first, and then the oil ends up not in the place you intended it to be.
If you do wish to oil the bearings, again do it with a needle, and use less oil than used for the gears (which isn't much anyway). The last thing you want is oil migrating from the shaft to the commutator - then it's a definite strip down. My experience is mainly with diesels of the Poole built era. Steam locos, from the few I have dismantled, look like they could have their bearings oiled by taking the body off (just two small bearings, one either end of the shaft).
If you really need to oil your bearings you'll probably know because you'll hear a screeching sound from the rub. Depending upon your confidence in dismantling chassis, do ask yourself if the bearings really need oiling. If you want to go ahead then let us know the chassis in question and we can go from there. I'll try and post pictures to help explain if it's a diesel chassis.
Other more experienced hands, please muck in, since I can only quote what works for me, but I too am interested to know what others do. That's how we learn, by sharing information.
Cheers
Dan
Sorry Dave ... I should add, the motor oil is more in reference to oiling the gears. I cannot vouch for it being suitable on the bearings. It might be ok - will try and get back to you on that. The oils I mentioned above seem a suitable viscosity (very light) for the bearings and have never given me trouble if applied in the appropriate QUANTITY (i.e. Not too much).
Dan
I'm very dubious about motor oil and I don't think it will be light enough.
Like Dan, I use the Gaugemaster GM619 with needle applicator, but believe a very light sewing machine oil would also work OK.
Haven't used it myself Mick, and I couldn't advise it for the bearings (since I don't know and go for the light stuff just like you) but think of what they pack on the locos these days - it's more like grease. I'd say that's heavier than motor oil, but then it's probably supposed to be removed anyway.
A pinhead of motor oil "should" be ok I think but tell you what - I'll give it a go and report back. How about that?
I think the line of thought is that the motor oil doesn't dry out like the thinner oils. I know the oils I use do dry out fairly quickly. Not the worst problem in the world I guess, you can always re-oil.
I'll accept we could come up with 10 different answers here :)
Dan
:thankyousign: all for your help and advice in particular Desert Hound regarding servicing of N gauge locos it is most appreciated.
Right
This one has got me thinking, since we've had this discussion re motor oil on NGF before. Below is our guinea pig. A deltic chassis which I was stripping down anyway. I don't have any motor oil to hand (too hot here to work on cars) but I'll get some synthetic oil from my motorbike mate and update as I progress.
I'm genuinely interested to know if it's suitable or not. Dave, notice the pic with the black "keeper plate" on top and the holes? This is where you could attempt to oil the bearings through, but you have to be precise. You can see in the other pic the bearings are completely accessible.
Mick - did you get my PM the other day?
Dan
[smg id=18209 type=preview align=center caption="image"][smg id=18210 type=preview align=center caption="image"]
DH it will be interesting to see how the oil works out.
My original problem was trying to find out the name of the grease that is suitable for Farish Plastic Gears, I remember from a couple of years ago that this topic had been covered but could not find it, did a search on the www and found it was Teflon Grease that I needed.
The other thing was the lack of information on servicing locos in the Knowledge Bank.
Having serviced many locos over many years I found some need a drop of oil either end of the armature, I could not remember if Farish motors needed oiling.
Hey Longbridge
I'm mindful not to "crowd out" others from posting so I hope others will contribute here. As far as I know (and practice) don't get oil anywhere near the motor proper. The motor proper being the copper windings and the commutator next to it.
If you think about it, you want lubrication where two surfaces come into contact and move against each other, in order to reduce friction (shaft on bearings / gear teeth / possibly axles in slots etc.) the motor doesn't really have any points of friction, except for the commutator against the brushes, but due to the nature of the current transfer, you don't want oil/grease here. I think the carbon brushes give a degree of lubrication to the comm in their own way.
If I'm teaching you to "suck eggs" here then please do forgive me - on reflection, I probably am :-X
Otherwise, the common adage is "if it moves, lube it!"
Others might be able to help with the grease. As said above, I use the a Gaugemaster oil (same as Newportnobby) and also have a Teflon one (apparently the Teflon one adheres better - not sure if it's a gimmick).
Well, if you don't mind me barging in on your thread, is it ok to continue with the "motor oil" experiment on here, just out of interest's sake and to share my findings?
Cheers
Dan
Dan, that's what we're all about on this forum. Thanks for the excellent detailed contributions! We might move them over to the Tutorials board. Seems like you could make useful contributions there with your obvious enthusiasm about keeping locos in good nick!
Cheers, George :thumbsup:
That would be fine George - I did actually wonder if there could be a better place for it. If that's so then I'll try to take photos each step of the way.
Dan
Dan that is what the forum is for "Teaching and Learning", even though I have been into trains for most of my life most of it was from a different era, in my day Triang X Series motors had a felt pad on the motor that needed to have a wee drop of oil every now and then, some of my American HO locos also need a touch of oil on the motor.
Even though I have an advanced HO American layout I still prefer N gauge and seeing that I grew up with British Steam in the 40s and 50s I prefer British N gauge, I do however feel all fingers and thumbs when working on the small stuff. a problem I don't have with HO.
As we all know oiling has to be done properly regardless of gauge, I just want to get it right with the Farish locos, I have no hesitation to ask for help and the more help that comes forward the better.
By all means use this thread as you wish, I for one will be interested where your diesel project is heading and I hope it helps others.
Quote from: longbridge on November 03, 2014, 06:09:19 AM
As we all know oiling has to be done properly regardless of gauge, I just want to get it right with the Farish locos, I have no hesitation to ask for help and the more help that comes forward the better.
Thanks for the encouragement. Also couldn't agree with you more. I don't profess to know everything there is to know about these locos (there are powers far more knowledgeable than myself) but I try to share what I do know and I'm happy to be guided when I'm wrong. I'm also on here sometimes asking questions. As you say, it's what the forum is about!
:NGaugersRule: