Walking round Tesco today I noticed among the medications Ibuprofen, Tesco "own brand" 16 pills for 23p on the next shelf Nurofen (which is just a branded Ibuprofen) £2.10 for 16 pills. Both were 200mg pills. Similar mark ups for similar products like paracetamol/Panadol and aspirin.
Are there that many stupid eejits that will pay nearly 10 times more just for a brand name? How can the maker justify such a mark up? I doubt advertising costs would make such a difference.
I believe that in USA the pharmaceutical companies have managed to ban the sale of "generic" versions, so many of those "in the know" purchase them from Canada.
Those with Cash&Carry cards stock up on the generic at wholesale process :P
I agree that brand process are mad - but hey, everyone to their own ...
I suffer quite badly from hay fever but avoid the branded named anti histamines and go for the cheapo Tesco ones - £2.50 for a months supply which is at least ½ the price of the others.
Never mind the cost of the odd painkiller for us humans...
What about the prices for pills for pets!!!
I spend £35 a month for pills for my beautiful greyhound to help with her arthritis. What a con!! Even on line they are expensive and you have to go through the hassle of getting a vets prescription before you can buy them online.
Bob Austin
It may be costly , but like most dog lovers you'd pay the earth to help your pet.
Have you tried Vitapet RA , a fish oil based food supplement for joints?
Anyway I wish your dog all the best and hope she doesn't suffer too much pain.
Quote from: austinbob on October 23, 2014, 08:22:17 PM
Never mind the cost of the odd painkiller for us humans...
What about the prices for pills for pets!!!
I spend £35 a month for pills for my beautiful greyhound to help with her arthritis. What a con!! Even on line they are expensive and you have to go through the hassle of getting a vets prescription before you can buy them online.
Bob Austin
Bob. can you get one prescription to cover a repeat order ? Living in Italy meds are stupid prices so we ordered through a UK company with a one off prescription this ran for over 2 years.
Jerry
Quote from: Dorsetmike on October 23, 2014, 06:49:14 PM
I believe that in USA the pharmaceutical companies have managed to ban the sale of "generic" versions, so many of those "in the know" purchase them from Canada.
Generics are not banned here. As in most of the developed world, generics are not permitted until the patent "runs out" or is overturned. Since each country runs its own patent system, generics will hit the market at different times in different countries. Here in the US, the generics companies are rewarded for overturning patents early by getting exclusivity for their generic for IIRC 6 months, during which time they try to sell at or close to the branded price. After the exclusivity period, more generic companies come in and the price drops to one more in line with the cost to manufacture.
The issue with Canadian drugs is that the price of a drug is set for each market by the pharma company, and is usually negotiated by the main payer, which for Canada is the government. In the US, it's the individual insurance company, which leads to bizarre pricing practices. Example is a 90-day supply of a generic for my wife...USD3 out of our pocket (10% co-pay), USD27 from the insurance company (90% payment of the negotiated price) and a billing from the pharmacy of USD1858.00!!! Some poor fool is probably being asked to pay the high number, and those are the ones that look to internet pharmacies and to Canada (and hope they don't get a counterfeit drug).
Quote from: Jerry Howlett on October 23, 2014, 08:52:16 PM
Quote from: austinbob on October 23, 2014, 08:22:17 PM
Never mind the cost of the odd painkiller for us humans...
What about the prices for pills for pets!!!
I spend £35 a month for pills for my beautiful greyhound to help with her arthritis. What a con!! Even on line they are expensive and you have to go through the hassle of getting a vets prescription before you can buy them online.
Bob Austin
Bob. can you get one prescription to cover a repeat order ? Living in Italy meds are stupid prices so we ordered through a UK company with a one off prescription this ran for over 2 years.
Jerry
I would have to get a prescription from the vet every time I want to get pills. The vet charges for every prescription!! Can be very costly.
Bob Austin
Quote from: austinbob on October 23, 2014, 08:22:17 PM
Never mind the cost of the odd painkiller for us humans...
What about the prices for pills for pets!!!
I spend £35 a month for pills for my beautiful greyhound to help with her arthritis. What a con!! Even on line they are expensive and you have to go through the hassle of getting a vets prescription before you can buy them online.
Bob Austin
My wife happens to be a vet and one of the most difficult problems in the industry is the widespread belief that vets 'con' or 'rip people off' because their treatment is expensive. I know that you weren't saying that, only commenting that the medicine is expensive and I'm not trying to twist your words. I'm just concerned that I can see the direction this thread is heading in to perhaps I can jump in with some of the facts of the economics of veterinary medicine:
- Vets and vet nurses are not well paid. The average starting wage for a vet is no higher than any other technical profession, despite the qualification taking twice as long. A vet with an equivalent level of qualification to a GP gets paid between 30% and 50% as much. That's despite the fact that most vets also do a LOT more than making a binary choice between sending you home with antibiotics or referring you to a consultant. How many GPs can do complex surgery, imaging, oncology, endocrinology, etc as well as all the routine stuff (and can do it for several different species)?
- Just because an NHS prescription costs a few pounds does not mean that that's the cost of the medicine. The NHS has the same prescription charge regardless of whether a drug costs £100 a year or £10,000 a year. Vets aren't subsidised by the taxpayer so have to charge you what the drug companies charge them.
- Most vet practices struggle financially
- Most vet practices put almost no markup on pharmaceuticals, because it's impossible to maintain a profit margin when there's nothing to differentiate one practice over another - most vets make their profit on the service they provide, not the pills they sell.
- You pay similar amounts of money per minute's work for a vet to do surgery as you do for a plumber or electrician to work on your house
- Most people in the UK simply have no idea what it actually costs to have medical treatment. I suggest you look up what private doctors charge in countries without public health (the USA): That's a fair reflection of how much it actually costs to deliver medical treatment. Then ask yourself again whether your vet is expensive. Alternatively, consider how much it costs to get treatment on the NHS... then add about 20% of ALL THE TAX YOU PAY and you'll have a more realistic number
So, please everyone, cut your vet a break. They aren't in it for the money - you only have to look at the staff parking spaces outside to realise that! They work extremely hard in a stressful job at all hours of the day and night. They do it because they want to help you and your animal. All most of them ask is enough money to keep the doors open and the lights on for the next time you visit.
I'm wondering where this discussion is going.... don't know if I'm talkin' humans or labradors ;)
Quote from: Rabs on October 24, 2014, 08:52:27 AM
Most people in the UK simply have no idea what it actually costs to have medical treatment. I suggest you look up what private doctors charge in countries without public health (the USA)
I'd suggest looking at other countries. The US prices are way higher than anywhere else because of their bizarre setup. The comparison is also a bit dubious because human health services spend stupendous amounts of money keeping near dead people not dead (often when they'd rather be dead) while vets put animals down in such cases - which must suck as a job.
The point still stands though - as does the wisdom of pet insurance.
Alan
Quote from: EtchedPixels on October 24, 2014, 09:59:31 AM
Quote from: Rabs on October 24, 2014, 08:52:27 AM
Most people in the UK simply have no idea what it actually costs to have medical treatment. I suggest you look up what private doctors charge in countries without public health (the USA)
I'd suggest looking at other countries. The US prices are way higher than anywhere else because of their bizarre setup. The comparison is also a bit dubious because human health services spend stupendous amounts of money keeping near dead people not dead (often when they'd rather be dead) while vets put animals down in such cases - which must suck as a job.
The point still stands though - as does the wisdom of pet insurance.
Alan
A good point - I wasn't suggesting that people compare the total cost of treatment but rather the like-for-like cost of a particular 'item' such as 10 minute consultation or a 1 week course of antibiotics, for example.
QuoteI'm wondering where this discussion is going.... don't know if I'm talkin' humans or labradors
Yes, sorry for sidetracking the thread. I'll shut up now. I just find it hard to let it slide when I hear the same unpleasant misconception repeated to me so often.
Comparisons between vets' services and human health services such as the NHS are completely
pointless, in fact even comparing the NHS with health services in EU or US is difficult because of
the different setups and financing. It's like comparing UK rail fares with those in Europe.
I hate to argue Rabs, but vetinaries are clearly *very* different where I live.
*Massive* markups on meds, as evidenced by me purchasing online for a third of the vet's prices.
.............And after using the same vet consistently for 15 years; he STILL charged me £45 to kill my cat.
Mind, he did come round in his top-of-the-range Range Rover, so I guess he spent a bit in fuel
It's a bit unfair to complain about a vet charging to put your cat down. He would do it painlessly
and you could'nt get the chemicals to do it and presumably would'nt want do it with with your
bare hands.
£45 is a moderate charge for a professional, in the accountancy firm I worked in I was charged at
£60 an hour and I was just a minion. The big suits would charge £150 to shake hands with a client.
Quote from: Agrippa on October 24, 2014, 11:13:48 AM
It's a bit unfair to complain about a vet charging to put your cat down. He would do it painlessly
and you could'nt get the chemicals to do it and presumably would'nt want do it with with your
bare hands.
£45 is a moderate charge for a professional, in the accountancy firm I worked in I was charged at
£60 an hour and I was just a minion. The big suits would charge £150 to shake hands with a client.
If your best analogy is to compare with accountants; then consider my case rested!
We'd have charged you £20 to rest your case, office space is very expensive! :D
:laughabovepost: :laughabovepost: :laughabovepost:
Quote from: FeelixTC on October 24, 2014, 10:52:42 AM
I hate to argue Rabs, but vetinaries are clearly *very* different where I live.
*Massive* markups on meds, as evidenced by me purchasing online for a third of the vet's prices.
.............And after using the same vet consistently for 15 years; he STILL charged me £45 to kill my cat.
Mind, he did come round in his top-of-the-range Range Rover, so I guess he spent a bit in fuel
The fact that they charge more doesn't neccessarily mean it's their markup . Who do you think gets better pricing from a pharmaceutical company - a small vet's practice or an online megastore which buys by the ton? Of course, it is possible that your vet is the rare exception but I'd be surprised.
Your argument is like complaining about your local, one man hobby store for 'ripping you off' when they are more expensive than Hattons.
And £45? You asked a highly trained professional to visit your house for, say half an hour, (call it an hour round trip from his surgery), to perform a highly specialist service and you are upset that he charged you £45?? Name another profession of a similar level of qualification that would even come close to that level of value. That's 45p/minute - I have to pay more than that to have my hair cut and you'd certainly pay more than that to get any building or trade work done at your house. I suspect that he actually gave you a discount for a PTS visit because he'd be out of business in a week if his revenue was only £360 per day (8, 1 hour appointments at £45). At the 10 vet practice where my wife works it costs several thousand of pound, every single day, just to stay open and keep all of the (very expensive) equipment operating.
And to the people who say that comparing human to animal medicine isn't valid: Do you think that a vet practice pays less in rent, less for it's x-ray machine, less for it's drugs, less for it's consumables than a doctor or a dentist does? The cost of doing first opinion medicine doesn't change just because the patients have a bit more hair.
If your local practice is a limited partnership or company you can go online to companies' house and see for yourself their profit margins. You might well be right about your particular practice but they would definitely be the exception rather than the rule - vote with your feet, as they say. The industry as a whole has much slimmer profits than most.
Anyway, I don't want to have an argument, particularly not one so far off topic! :D I'll resist the urge to dive in again. Best wishes everyone
Quote from: Rabs on October 24, 2014, 12:04:21 PM
Anyway, I don't want to have an argument, particularly not one so far off topic! :D I'll resist the urge to dive in again. Best wishes everyone
Agreed; same to you.
Quote from: Rabs on October 24, 2014, 08:52:27 AM
Quote from: austinbob on October 23, 2014, 08:22:17 PM
Never mind the cost of the odd painkiller for us humans...
What about the prices for pills for pets!!!
I spend £35 a month for pills for my beautiful greyhound to help with her arthritis. What a con!! Even on line they are expensive and you have to go through the hassle of getting a vets prescription before you can buy them online.
Bob Austin
My wife happens to be a vet and one of the most difficult problems in the industry is the widespread belief that vets 'con' or 'rip people off' because their treatment is expensive. I know that you weren't saying that, only commenting that the medicine is expensive and I'm not trying to twist your words. I'm just concerned that I can see the direction this thread is heading in to perhaps I can jump in with some of the facts of the economics of veterinary medicine:
- Vets and vet nurses are not well paid. The average starting wage for a vet is no higher than any other technical profession, despite the qualification taking twice as long. A vet with an equivalent level of qualification to a GP gets paid between 30% and 50% as much. That's despite the fact that most vets also do a LOT more than making a binary choice between sending you home with antibiotics or referring you to a consultant. How many GPs can do complex surgery, imaging, oncology, endocrinology, etc as well as all the routine stuff (and can do it for several different species)?
- Just because an NHS prescription costs a few pounds does not mean that that's the cost of the medicine. The NHS has the same prescription charge regardless of whether a drug costs £100 a year or £10,000 a year. Vets aren't subsidised by the taxpayer so have to charge you what the drug companies charge them.
- Most vet practices struggle financially
- Most vet practices put almost no markup on pharmaceuticals, because it's impossible to maintain a profit margin when there's nothing to differentiate one practice over another - most vets make their profit on the service they provide, not the pills they sell.
- You pay similar amounts of money per minute's work for a vet to do surgery as you do for a plumber or electrician to work on your house
- Most people in the UK simply have no idea what it actually costs to have medical treatment. I suggest you look up what private doctors charge in countries without public health (the USA): That's a fair reflection of how much it actually costs to deliver medical treatment. Then ask yourself again whether your vet is expensive. Alternatively, consider how much it costs to get treatment on the NHS... then add about 20% of ALL THE TAX YOU PAY and you'll have a more realistic number
So, please everyone, cut your vet a break. They aren't in it for the money - you only have to look at the staff parking spaces outside to realise that! They work extremely hard in a stressful job at all hours of the day and night. They do it because they want to help you and your animal. All most of them ask is enough money to keep the doors open and the lights on for the next time you visit.
Rabs
My vet is great! Service great! Care for my beautiful greyhound is great! (literally grey round the muzzle - a proper greyhound cos she's getting on a bit in years. I have nothing against vets - they have to make a crust like the rest of us.
BUT!!! Many of the drugs prescribed are very similar to human drugs but cost a fortune. For instance my greyhound is prescribed Rimadyl at one per day - costs me nearly £100 for a 3 months supply. I believe this is not very different to prescribing Ibuprofen to humans at a fraction of the cost. She is also prescribed Tramadol (a human drug) which only costs around £10 for a 3 months supply at one per day. Go figure!!!
Somebody is ripping us off here.
Bob Austin
Here in Australia Vets make Dick Turpin and Jesse James look like Saints, being in a tropical climate animals are more prone to getting more severe problems, one of the worst is the Paralysis Tick these ticks can kill a dog within 5 days, we can buy a pack of 3 pipettes that contain approx 2-3ml of liquid that has to be squeezed onto the back of the pets neck once a month, sadly this is supposed to kill fleas to up to a month ans help prevent Ticks for 2 weeks, the cost for these 3 Pipettes is $39au or 20GBP which makes it more expensive than Gold, the worst part is I have tried all brands and they don't work.
My Son had to take his little dog and at to the vets two weeks ago, both had Paralysis Ticks, it cost him $1,500au 800GBP to get the dog fixed up and $400au 200GBP for the cat, obviously dogs are more valuable than cats in the vets eyes, at the time both were lame and could not walk properly.
On top of that last year I took my dog for her yearly needle that covers her fort he nasties dogs get, a few days later she had Ringworm, this September I took her to a different vet and she came out with fleas, I think its because the Vets are to lazy to clean the bench down with disinfectant after treating an animal, the flea problem still exists, we have tried collars, powders, washes and pills to kill the rotten things and none of them have worked, we even washed all the soft furnishings in the house, sprayed all the carpets with surface spray and gave the dog another one of many flea washes she has had yesterday, we now have to wait.
Sorry but at the moment Vets and makers of Veterinary Medicines are on my short list for a Christmas Card this year.
Quote from: longbridge on October 24, 2014, 09:44:55 PM
Here in Australia Vets make Dick Turpin and Jesse James look like Saints, being in a tropical climate animals are more prone to getting more severe problems, one of the worst is the Paralysis Tick these ticks can kill a dog within 5 days, we can buy a pack of 3 pipettes that contain approx 2-3ml of liquid that has to be squeezed onto the back of the pets neck once a month, sadly this is supposed to kill fleas to up to a month ans help prevent Ticks for 2 weeks, the cost for these 3 Pipettes is $39au or 20GBP which makes it more expensive than Gold, the worst part is I have tried all brands and they don't work.
My Son had to take his little dog and at to the vets two weeks ago, both had Paralysis Ticks, it cost him $1,500au 800GBP to get the dog fixed up and $400au 200GBP for the cat, obviously dogs are more valuable than cats in the vets eyes, at the time both were lame and could not walk properly.
On top of that last year I took my dog for her yearly needle that covers her fort he nasties dogs get, a few days later she had Ringworm, this September I took her to a different vet and she came out with fleas, I think its because the Vets are to lazy to clean the bench down with disinfectant after treating an animal, the flea problem still exists, we have tried collars, powders, washes and pills to kill the rotten things and none of them have worked, we even washed all the soft furnishings in the house, sprayed all the carpets with surface spray and gave the dog another one of many flea washes she has had yesterday, we now have to wait.
Sorry but at the moment Vets and makers of Veterinary Medicines are on my short list for a Christmas Card this year.
Hi longbridge
Sorry for the hassle you've had. We all love our pets and spend a fortune if necessary to keep them fit and healthy.
I must say I don't have any complaints about our vet's service or competency. We have always had good service.
My beautiful elderly greyhound has major teeth problems (a common problem with greyhounds) and arthritis. My vet has given excellent treatment without exception. However the cost of drugs has always been an exceptionally high percentage of the cost. This cost has to be lining the pockets of the drug companies. I think they take advantage of the fact that almost every pet owner loves their pet(s) and does not often consider the cost of drugs when looking after their pet.
Bob Austin
This has gone so way off topic from the OP.
can we either go back to the OP or close off this thread, it was never meant to be vet bashing week. Bill.
Was going to crack a Viagra joke, but that would be even more off topic.
Keeping the thread on topic, Agrippa mentioned Viagra just out of curiosity is Viagra available as a Generic tablet?, it seems to have been around for quite a few years.
That was the basis of the joke, but this is a family forum.....
There has been a wide range of views exchanged, both on and off-topic, and I think that all of the points have been made.
Therefore I am prescribing that this thread is now :locked: