Tonight there will be a massive full moon :goggleeyes: "and its not me bending over B.T.W"
Its the last for this year and will be worth having a look at if your interested in these things.
:thankyousign: Mark
Hey this site has gone quiet all of a sudden, no postings for over 10 mimutes? is everyone in their back gardens having a look for the Moon? :thumbsup:
Mark ;)
Sorry, but the "SuperMoon" is mainly hype ...
Yes, it's closer than usual - but that happens quite a bit. The Moon is at perigee ... the term "supermoon" is something an astrologer slapped on to make it sound 'cool', very few astronomers use the term. The average distance the Moon is from us is 238,000 miles away; tonight it's a bit less than 223,700 miles. Conversely it can be further away; over about 248,500 miles is a "micromoon" (apogee). As the orbit is elliptical ...
Why does it look bigger when the distance isn't that much closer ? Refraction ... an object closer to the horizon goes through more atmosphere, which magnifies it. In a few hours, you'll think it a lot smaller than now - and it will be about the same distance away ...
Enjoy it - but please don't think it's anything special, as it's not ...
OOOH , get you !! VERY technical !!!! Ric
Enjoy it - but please don't think it's anything special, as it's not ...
[/quote]In 47 years I have never heard of it before and saw it on the Google home page and myself and the Kids will be taking the Dogs for a longer walk later so we can have a good at it.
But Thanks for the mileage info, I may pop in loft later and look through my old books and see if I did that many miles behind a Peak during their heyday.
Mark
Quote from: MikeDunn on September 09, 2014, 08:21:04 PM
Sorry, but the "SuperMoon" is mainly hype ...
Yes, it's closer than usual - but that happens quite a bit. The Moon is at perigee ... the term "supermoon" is something an astrologer slapped on to make it sound 'cool', very few astronomers use the term. The average distance the Moon is from us is 238,000 miles away; tonight it's a bit less than 223,700 miles. Conversely it can be further away; over about 248,500 miles is a "micromoon" (apogee). As the orbit is elliptical ...
Why does it look bigger when the distance isn't that much closer ? Refraction ... an object closer to the horizon goes through more atmosphere, which magnifies it. In a few hours, you'll think it a lot smaller than now - and it will be about the same distance away ...
Enjoy it - but please don't think it's anything special, as it's not ...
Pedant mode.....it's "Astronomer" not "Astrologer". The latter are phonies and charlatans. :D
:goggleeyes: I blame the Government :angel:
If you were to stand in the garden and peer between your legs you can see Uranus :laugh3:
:smiley-laughing:
And as the Man said, it was nothing special, we all walked up the hill, lots of blank looks and came back home again
:laugh3:
Mark
I did notice the moon seemed a little bigger tonight, but when i look to the sky im looking for green flashes
Mark
Quote from: mark37/4 on September 09, 2014, 09:50:01 PM
I did notice the moon seemed a little bigger tonight, but when i look to the sky im looking for green flashes
Mark
Please don't start Richard Burton off again ::)
Mode=Pedant2 :)
Actually, sorry to say, but you missed it ! it was last night, Monday night ! (the night of 8/9Sep)
Perigee was at 3:30amUTC (GMT) Sep8th
and Full Moon was a few hours (22h) later at 1:39am Sep9th
And it was not the superest of supermoons, that was on Aug10th when the moon perigee was ~1490km closer and less than 1hr between perigee and full phase.
Not that anyone would have noticed unaided eye :)
Mind you, you wouldnt notice the difference in size between last night and tonight.
Keep track of future events with this handy little calc.
https://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/pacalc.html (https://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/pacalc.html)
Look for ++ (biggest) and -- (littlest) symbols.
Careful Mick, I'm on the NASA website (seriously) and I can get them to send a rocket up there :D
Quote from: newportnobby on September 09, 2014, 09:53:14 PM
Quote from: mark37/4 on September 09, 2014, 09:50:01 PM
I did notice the moon seemed a little bigger tonight, but when i look to the sky im looking for green flashes
Mark
Please don't start Richard Burton off again ::)
Okay, well if its not green flashes them massive mettallic shape shifting metteors,
Mark
Quote from: Bigric on September 09, 2014, 08:24:10 PM
OOOH , get you !! VERY technical !!!! Ric
:P :P :P :P :P
Quote from: mark100 on September 09, 2014, 08:29:09 PM
In 47 years I have never heard of it before
Well, the term is around 30 years old ... but has only become 'popular' in the past 5 I reckon.
Quote from: captainelectra on September 09, 2014, 08:35:38 PM
Pedant mode.....it's "Astronomer" not "Astrologer". The latter are phonies and charlatans. :D
[Pedant correction mode on]
Actually, re-read what I wrote ::)
[Pedant correction mode off]
As an amateur astronomer, I know the difference :P A charlatan coined the phrase about 30 years ago (a Google will reveal the details) to make things sound better for his 'predictions' ... 'Nuff said ...
Quote from: MalcolmAL on September 09, 2014, 09:54:26 PM
Not that anyone would have noticed unaided eye :)
Mind you, you wouldnt notice the difference in size between last night and tonight.
Exactly :)
Perigee happens every 28-&-a-bit days. In an average year, perigee will have the Moon closer than average twice in the year, hence "supermoon".
But you can fake it by watching the Moon rise over the horizon ... refraction makes it
huuuuge on the right nights :o
Speaking of which ... here's one I took earlier :P
(http://www.pbsilver.co.uk/astro/moon/Plato_Vallis_Alpes_20130219.jpg)
Yeah, it's a full moon, happens now and then. i'll be able to see those alien
pyramids a bit better.
Quote from: MikeDunn on September 09, 2014, 11:17:20 PM
As an amateur astronomer, I know the difference
Yes, me too :) and I was afraid that capte had misread you !
Nice pic. of Plato, what did you use ?
Which reminds me - what is the status of the 'domes' in Plato, I seem to remember some controversy some years ago ?
Shall we start a new thread ! ? :)
I am about to treat myself to a new scope or two, my old homebrew 6" Newt is long past it (much like me !)
I think the confusion over the full moon was that it was technically on Sep9th but during the night of 8/9
Quote from: MikeDunn on September 09, 2014, 11:17:20 PM
Quote from: Bigric on September 09, 2014, 08:24:10 PM
OOOH , get you !! VERY technical !!!! Ric
:P :P :P :P :P
Quote from: mark100 on September 09, 2014, 08:29:09 PM
In 47 years I have never heard of it before
Well, the term is around 30 years old ... but has only become 'popular' in the past 5 I reckon.
Quote from: captainelectra on September 09, 2014, 08:35:38 PM
Pedant mode.....it's "Astronomer" not "Astrologer". The latter are phonies and charlatans. :D
[Pedant correction mode on]
Actually, re-read what I wrote ::)
[Pedant correction mode off]
As an amateur astronomer, I know the difference :P A charlatan coined the phrase about 30 years ago (a Google will reveal the details) to make things sound better for his 'predictions' ... 'Nuff said ...
Quote from: MalcolmAL on September 09, 2014, 09:54:26 PM
Not that anyone would have noticed unaided eye :)
Mind you, you wouldnt notice the difference in size between last night and tonight.
Exactly :)
Perigee happens every 28-&-a-bit days. In an average year, perigee will have the Moon closer than average twice in the year, hence "supermoon".
But you can fake it by watching the Moon rise over the horizon ... refraction makes it huuuuge on the right nights :o
Speaking of which ... here's one I took earlier :P
(http://www.pbsilver.co.uk/astro/moon/Plato_Vallis_Alpes_20130219.jpg)
Wow thats amazing, What camera/telescope did you use to take that, "where we live we are still using 110 cartridges and think thats modern". Never mind the trains, every day, someone on here comes up with something differant and interesting.
:thankyousign: Mark
Quote from: Agrippa on September 09, 2014, 11:31:47 PM
Yeah, it's a full moon, happens now and then. i'll be able to see those alien
pyramids a bit better.
ive got a ring with one of those on it
The plane boss, the plane !
That is an excellent photo.
Cheers all ... yeah, it's not bad :) Seeing wasn't particularly good, but I managed to process it reasonably well.
OK, as peeps have asked : techie details coming ... you've been warned :)
Scope : Meade LX200 f10 10", alt-az mounted in a permanent observatory
Camera : Phillips Toucam, prime focus
Processing : Registax; stack of best 100 frames from 1000 taken
Date : 19/2/13
I had just replaced the collimation screws in the scope with knurled knobs (fnar fnar, oo-er missus) a bit earlier that evening, and had spent an hour or so recollimating (disgusting !); was curious to how good the focus was, so took the video to check.
I started making a wedge earlier this year (so I can be polar mounted instead of alt-az), but ran out of free time; hoping to be able to get back to it in a month or so ! Would really like to get the scope back in the obs in the Autumn on a wedge :drool:
As to the dome - you'll find it here http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/frame/?AS17-P-1928 (http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/frame/?AS17-P-1928) and here http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/frame/?AS17-P-1923 (http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/frame/?AS17-P-1923). Just remember - it's secret, don't tell anyone it's a glass dome housing the secret base with 1000 Marines ... :-X
Mike
As a bloke who has been called into work tomorrow to get high school students up to speed in astrophysics for their upcoming exam, I understand what you are talking about and am very impressed with your kit! :thumbsup:
Quote from: MikeDunn on September 10, 2014, 09:51:02 AM
As to the dome - you'll find it here http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/frame/?AS17-P-1928 (http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/frame/?AS17-P-1928) and here http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/frame/?AS17-P-1923 (http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/frame/?AS17-P-1923). Just remember - it's secret, don't tell anyone it's a glass dome housing the secret base with 1000 Marines ... :-X
Excellent stuff Mike, the Toucam is impressive !
Thanks for the dome links, nice find,
but haha, er um, no I didnt mean that type of controversy !
I was thinking back in the age of the dinosaurs when Sir Patrick and I were young ( :) :) ) and he was doing his moon mapping.
There was lots of discussion if it was a dome (frozen bubble ) or an optical illusion of just another crater.
Didnt realise that it had risen to fame to require an Apollo portrait !
Very interesting.
But yes, my lips are sealed :) :)
Now I shall go back to trying to decide upon either an Evo8 or an Evo9.25 or a really big light bucket Dob.
PS. recollimating a CAT, you're a brave man !
Note to self - bookmark Mike's home address just in case :)
PPS
Straying even further afield,
perhaps I should explain for younger members,
in the days of yore when the solar system was young :-
There was a big controversy over crater formation, were they volcanic or impact ?
The Plato Dome(s) was held up by some as an example of a bubble of lava,
an embryo crater caught 'in flagrante',
thus giving creedence (but maybe not Clearwater !) to the "Volcanic Moon" school.
OK, I'll get coat , ,
Quote from: MalcolmAL on September 10, 2014, 11:21:18 AM
Thanks for the dome links, nice find,
but haha, er um, no I didnt mean that type of controversy !
Oops ! :angel: Google
wasn't my friend there ;) But the UFO/conspiracy page I found that dome on was ... "interesting" !!! >:D I'd love to know how the military managed to get all those Marines in place as well as building the city & doming it when all NASA could handle was a 3-man craft :P
Quote
I was thinking back in the age of the dinosaurs when Sir Patrick and I were young ( :) :) ) and he was doing his moon mapping.
There was lots of discussion if it was a dome (frozen bubble ) or an optical illusion of just another crater.
Ah, that old debate :smiley-laughing:
Quote
Now I shall go back to trying to decide upon either an Evo8 or an Evo9.25 or a really big light bucket Dob.
PS. recollimating a CAT, you're a brave man !
Celestron do decent SCTs these days ... but you may want to look at what people like Altair Astro are getting made; they have some lovely kit ! If you want to do imagery, forget the Dob though.
Doing a cat isn't as bad as it's made out ... honestly :laughabovepost: I was very nervous in replacing the screws with the knobs (visions of the secondary mirror dropping down the tube :o ), but they went in a treat - makes the collimation much easier :thumbsup:
Quote
Note to self - bookmark Mike's home address just in case :)
Who says the obs is at home ? >:D
Keep thinking must sort my old gear out, don't use it.
Still have a virtually unused Atik ICII colour camera with 25pin D plug and USB.
There should be a box of filters as well somewhere.
Quote from: MikeDunn on September 10, 2014, 12:57:38 PM
Quote
Note to self - bookmark Mike's home address just in case :)
Who says the obs is at home ? >:D
Ah yes, no,
Sorry, I did not express myself well, it was an attempt at a semi-joke
what I meant was -
So that I could find _you_ for when/if I ever have a misfortune collimating a cat :) I can do newts ok :)
Speaking of which ... here's one I took earlier :P
(http://www.pbsilver.co.uk/astro/moon/Plato_Vallis_Alpes_20130219.jpg)
[/quote] I had a couple of the Lads from the Masonry pop in at lunch time and I showed them this photo of the Moon and everyone was saying that looks great, modern technology etc etc, then 1 popped the question, whats the point of photographing the Moon, nothing is going to change on it?
Its not as if, one day Mike is going to look through his scope and see a housing estate and ASDA up there. :hmmm:
But anyway we all live in hope and I enjoy the unusual and think its a great photo. :thumbsup:
:thankyousign: Mark
Quote from: Oldman on September 10, 2014, 01:34:59 PM
Still have a virtually unused Atik ICII colour camera with 25pin D plug and USB.
Nice !
Quote from: MalcolmAL on September 10, 2014, 02:24:06 PM
it was an attempt at a semi-joke
LOL, I took it as such, don't worry :)
Quote from: mark100 on September 10, 2014, 03:05:06 PM
then 1 popped the question, whats the point of photographing the Moon, nothing is going to change on it?
Well ... that's
old thinking ... honest. OK, it's nowhere near as dynamic as the gas giants, but it
does change over time ... For example, up until a few years ago, lights seen on the Moon were dismissed as fantasy - they're now accepted as a real phenomena, albeit extremely poorly understood ... It may be that they're from very small meteor impacts - but we don't know ... Maybe it was the filming for the new series of The Clangers :claphappy:
Quote from: mark100 on September 10, 2014, 03:05:06 PMIts not as if, one day Mike is going to look through his scope and see a housing estate and ASDA up there.
Maybe not one day
soonAlthough, give Sir R. Branson half a chance and who knows , , ,
Quote(visions of the secondary mirror dropping down the tube :o )
Perish the thought !
Arnt you supposed to do it one screw at a time ! ?
(says me trying to be clever, never having done it !! )
Bobs Knobs, or gp machine knurled?
Fascinating that there are so many amateur astronomers on this forum. There's not an obvious link between model railways and the great Out There. Perhaps those of us in both camps should be dubbed "supernerds"... Sorry...
Quote from: MikeDunn on September 09, 2014, 08:21:04 PM
Sorry, but the "SuperMoon" is mainly hype ...
Yes, it's closer than usual - but that happens quite a bit. The Moon is at perigee ... the term "supermoon" is something an astrologer slapped on to make it sound 'cool', very few astronomers use the term. The average distance the Moon is from us is 238,000 miles away; tonight it's a bit less than 223,700 miles. Conversely it can be further away; over about 248,500 miles is a "micromoon" (apogee). As the orbit is elliptical ...
There is actually quite a difference between a "supermoon" and a "micromoon". Monday's Astronomy Picture of the Day puts them side by side: http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap140908.html (http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap140908.html) . Whether you'd notice if they weren't side by side, I'm not sure.
Quote from: MikeDunn on September 09, 2014, 08:21:04 PM
Why does it look bigger when the distance isn't that much closer ? Refraction ... an object closer to the horizon goes through more atmosphere, which magnifies it. In a few hours, you'll think it a lot smaller than now - and it will be about the same distance away ...
I've got to disagree with you there, I'm afraid, Mike. The difference between a "supermoon" and a "micromoon" is a real difference in the angular diameter of the Moon as viewed from the Earth, due purely to the difference in distance arising from one being near perigee and the other near apogee. You could see it from orbit, if you were lucky enough to get there!
However, irrespective of whether the Moon is "super", "micro" or just plain ordinary, some people, but not all, perceive the Moon as being much larger when it's close to the horizon, a phenomenon known since antiquity, and dubbed "The Moon Illusion". Although it is sometimes attributed to refraction, this is one of the proposed explanations that definitely isn't correct. Atmospheric refraction actually makes the Moon appear smaller, most notably in the vertical axis, although I believe that there is a slight horizontal effect. In addition, the Moon is slightly further away when nearer the horizon than when high in the sky, to the tune of approximately one Earth radius - because as the Earth turns we move more directly under the Moon as it rises higher. So, since both these effects (refraction and the change in distance) are in the same direction, when measured with instruments the angular diameter of the Moon is really smaller nearer the horizon than high in the sky - although the effects are only a few percent and aren't immediately obvious even in time lapse shots.
The large apparent diameter of the Moon (and Sun) near the horizon is an optical/cognitive illusion, and unless there's been a breakthrough recently, there is no single fully agreed explanation. If anyone is interested, and fed up of modelling for the evening (heresy, I know :) ), there's quite a good exposition of the various issues and possible explanations on this website: http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/3d/moonillu.htm (http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/3d/moonillu.htm)
Quote from: MalcolmAL on September 10, 2014, 03:48:55 PM
Bobs Knobs, or gp machine knurled?
Bobs Knobs knock-off, Astro Engineering version. Yes, one at a time ... you just need to make sure you have the one you put in right :goggleeyes:
Quote"supernerds"
:) :) :thumbsup:
It is amazing just how big ones picture folder can become in such a short time, ever since Mark raised the topic I have been looking for 'one I made earlier' and wot got buried !
So, a montage of some apo- and peri- gee moons from 2011
fingers xxed and a drum-roll please :-
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81786082/Astro/ap2b.jpg)
These were taken with my humble little bridge camera, a Panasonic FZ18.
My contribution to this thread is to say I got up before dawn so I could run with the Supermoon. It was beautiful and bright, although I must admit that without knowing, I'd probably not notice a difference in size. In fact, my wife and I joked that we'd probably just say "the moon looks bright tonight."
Megga supergeek warning ! Look away now if of a nervous disposition :) !
:-----
Quote from: MikeDunn on September 10, 2014, 12:57:38 PM
If you want to do imagery, forget the Dob though.
Dont dismiss Dobs and Alt-Az too much.
Depending on your choce of region of the sky you can do exposures typically (but depending on all sorts !) between 10 and 40or more seconds.
Then you de-rotate and stack in DSS.
Lots of DSOs within reach,
great pics somewhere on the web of the recent superniova in M82 by poster "smerral" in Scotland with an alt-az 8se,
and of course (as you have shown so well) the moon and planets dont need eq.
This is an interesting read :
http://autostarsuite.net/forums/storage/19/4981/field%20rotation%20v3.pdf (http://autostarsuite.net/forums/storage/19/4981/field%20rotation%20v3.pdf)
handy diagrams for the best sky regions for the longest exposures before field rotation effects take over.
You might like to have an experiment before you dangle your pride&joy off a wedge :) !
Oh PS - it needs tracking in alt-az/GOTO ? !
(/geek)
Quote from: scottmitchell74 on September 10, 2014, 10:19:03 PM
My contribution to this thread is to say I got up before dawn so I could run with the Supermoon. It was beautiful and bright, although I must admit that without knowing, I'd probably not notice a difference in size. In fact, my wife and I joked that we'd probably just say "the moon looks bright tonight."
Spot on. A "supermoon" is brighter than normal. From memory, about 30% brighter, but I think that mightbe as compared to a "micromoon". I forget. But almost certainly more noticeable than the size issue.
Quote from: MalcolmAL on September 11, 2014, 01:44:13 PM
You might like to have an experiment before you dangle your pride&joy off a wedge :) !
Oh PS - it needs tracking in alt-az/GOTO ? !
I'd never dangle my pride and joy off a wedge... My telescope, possibly.... :D (Actually it's hanging off a Vixen Equatorial...)
Quote from: MalcolmAL on September 11, 2014, 01:44:13 PM
Depending on your choce of region of the sky you can do exposures typically (but depending on all sorts !) between 10 and 40or more seconds.
Oh PS - it needs tracking in alt-az/GOTO ? !
40 secs ? I want to be able to take
5-minute subs, or longer :smiley-laughing:
And yes, the LX200 has full tracking & GOTO capabilities :)
no prob, 8x40=5.3min
plus a few more for luck and to supress a bit of the extra wee noise :thumbsup:
But yes, I know what you mean, dont we all :)
but you said "If you want to do imagery, forget the Dob"
Just thort I'd stick my oar in :) in case others were interested and took you literally ;) ;D
I can see that I'll have to track down some pretty pics for you from 'smerral' and 'rutigsmeg' (12" Dob)
Quote from: Nick on September 11, 2014, 02:15:51 PMFrom memory, about 30% brighter, but I think that mightbe as compared to a "micromoon"
I think you are on the right track, I found a wikip page saying "20% brighter" than ordinary.
Quote from: MikeDunn on September 11, 2014, 03:18:22 PM
40 secs ? I want to be able to take 5-minute subs, or longer
Here you go, 10mins of M82+supernova :
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81786082/Astro/SmerralM82.jpg)
My little thumbnail, to 'fair-use' illustrate this post, of ('smerral') Brian Ritchie's original (see below)
copyright etc remains with Brian etc
60x10sec (must have been near zenith ? ) with alt-az 8se + 0.5x focal reducer.
The supernova was unrecognised for several days (6 was it?) and that setup of Brian's would have been good enough for a Discovery credit !
Isnt that good then !
Brian's original can be seen in all its glory here :-
http://cdn.astrobin.com/images/thumbs/6f69d70fc4785431806aff730ed0b681.1824x0_q100_watermark.jpg (http://cdn.astrobin.com/images/thumbs/6f69d70fc4785431806aff730ed0b681.1824x0_q100_watermark.jpg)
More of his amazing stuff here :
http://www.astrobin.com/users/smerral/?active=DEEP&public=&sub=subject (http://www.astrobin.com/users/smerral/?active=DEEP&public=&sub=subject)
Quote from: MalcolmAL on September 11, 2014, 03:38:24 PM
no prob, 8x40=5.3min
plus a few more for luck and to supress a bit of the extra wee noise :thumbsup:
[techie bit again]
Yeah - but 40s isn't really long enough to get the faint detail ... for that, you do need to be able to have long exposures & capture the "rarer" photons as well as the "common" ones ... I'll be looking at producing DSOs with something like 12x300s as a starting point (+ bias + darks etc). That photo is OK - but where's the detail ?
Using a Dob for imagery is do-able - but you get damn few people putting all the effort in because of the limited results. Hence 'fracs and SCTs being used by serious imagers (more the former than the latter), and Dobs mainly for visual (95+% ?).
[/techie bit]
Quote from: MikeDunn on September 11, 2014, 04:36:49 PM
That photo is OK - but where's the detail ?
Yep, I know all that but
(a) just "ok" !!OK!! when did you last discover a supernova !? :hmmm: a supernova discovery would be quite enough detail for me !!! Shame about the folks living near to it though :)
(b ) "serious imagers", yep
I know all that, but (pedant mode = on) you didnt say that back up there ^^ ;D
Oh, EDIT PS (3)
You can spend a fortune chasing Damien Peach but it still wont have all the detain of Hubble 'scope ????
mahatmacoat :)