At tonight's area group meeting one of the guys said he'd heard Hornby might be producing a couple of UK outline Steamers, but that they would be something one of the other companies already makes.
Has anybody else heard such a tale?
About the only Hornby/Arnold UK outline item is the Brighton Belle which ain't steam.
Given the mindset of makers of UK outline N gauge steam if there is any truth in the rumour then I can see yet more Bulleid Pacifics.
Were these N gauge items ?
We shall see.
Quote from: Dorsetmike on August 21, 2014, 10:36:35 PM
Given the mindset of makers of UK outline N gauge steam if there is any truth in the rumour then I can see yet more Bulleid Pacifics.
Not heard this myself, but if they are doing more N gauge I don't care what prototype, so long as they sell like hotcakes...because then they may do more.
Another major player in the N gauge market would be a good thing :)
Cheers
Dave
Agree with Dave, but I'd have thought they'd go for the 'headline' locos - I'd think an A4 or A3 would be more likely.
Quote from: njee20 on August 22, 2014, 09:20:43 AM
Agree with Dave, but I'd have thought they'd go for the 'headline' locos - I'd think an A4 or A3 would be more likely.
Totally agree. If this rumour is indeed proved correct, I would have thought an A4 or A3 are by far the most likely given the profile on the world stage of the real "Mallard" and "Flying Scotsman".
Roy
Quote from: njee20 on August 22, 2014, 09:20:43 AM
Agree with Dave, but I'd have thought they'd go for the 'headline' locos - I'd think an A4 or A3 would be more likely.
Unfortunately (for the Southern fans at least), if I was a betting man, I'd have to agree with the above. The A3 and A4 have always been bread and butter models for Hornby in 4mm so it would make sense that they would look here as a starting point for an N gauge steamer as well - could we have a Gresley A1 as well please? It would say me having to pluck up the courage to convert one of the Dapol ones! :D
If the rumours are true, then I think it would be great to have another major player in the rtr N gauge market! Fingers crossed...
Quote from: Roy L S on August 22, 2014, 09:29:15 AMTotally agree. If this rumour is indeed proved correct, I would have thought an A4 or A3 are by far the most likely given the profile on the world stage of the real "Mallard" and "Flying Scotsman".
Roy
Don't you mean: 'give the profile on the world stage of the real "Mallard" and "bag of bits money pit".' ??? :smiley-laughing:
Quote from: Atso on August 22, 2014, 09:33:08 AM
Quote from: Roy L S on August 22, 2014, 09:29:15 AMTotally agree. If this rumour is indeed proved correct, I would have thought an A4 or A3 are by far the most likely given the profile on the world stage of the real "Mallard" and "Flying Scotsman".
Roy
Don't you mean: 'give the profile on the world stage of the real "Mallard" and "bag of bits money pit".' ??? :smiley-laughing:
Hi Steve
Yes you are quite right of course.
I should have said the A4 Class of which "Mallard" is World famous and the A3/A4 "Mongrel" ruined in recent preservation history that was once the pure Gresley "Racehorse" called Flying Scotsman!!
Roy
Quote from: Roy L S on August 22, 2014, 09:40:46 AMI should have said the A4 Class of which "Mallard" is World famous and the A3/A4 "Mongrel" ruined in recent preservation history that was once the pure Gresley "Racehorse" called Flying Scotsman!!
Quite right too! :D It is a shame that Flying Scotsman is in such a poor state. FS is the locomotive that made such an impression on a 9 year old boy (at Dicot on it's return leg from Australia) and made him into a strictly LNER 'man' right there and then. Still modelling is an escape from reality, in my world FS is still in it's 1930's and (IMHO) best condition.
Quote from: Atso on August 22, 2014, 09:31:32 AM
If the rumours are true, then I think it would be great to have another major player in the rtr N gauge market! Fingers crossed...
Yes, especially given that we probably have a while yet to wait for the first of DJM Dave's deliveries and Dapol seem to have gone off the boil totally now.
I could be wrong but it seems to me that Dapol have been distracted by 0 Gauge products following the appointment of Richard Webster as designer, it is interesting to note that there has not been a single newly tooled N Gauge release from Dapol, be it wagon coach, loco or accessory since the Western which is a year or so ago now. In fact, NGS Collett BG aside we haven't (as far as I can recall) even seen any EPs since the Maunsells were shown at TINGS last year, just lots of CAD pictures.
So Hornby competition (if true) would in my view be a good thing.
Roy
I agree with all here so far. Another major manufacturer getting involved in N would be a real boost for the customer. If that new manufacturer goes on to deliver to their promises, that would be an even greater boost and may make the others buck their ideas up...
I'd be surprised if Hornby deliberately set out to duplicate something already available. Unless they are just digging out the tooling for the old Hornby Minitrix A3 and A4 of course... My money would be on a streamlined 'Coronation' and matching coaches. I can see that selling well as a boxed set.
Quote from: belstone on August 22, 2014, 10:18:30 AM
I'd be surprised if Hornby deliberately set out to duplicate something already available. Unless they are just digging out the tooling for the old Hornby Minitrix A3 and A4 of course... My money would be on a streamlined 'Coronation' and matching coaches. I can see that selling well as a boxed set.
Possibly, but it has to be said "Coronation" has nothing like the profile of a "Mallard" or "Flying Scotsman" worldwide, and you can be sure that Hornby International via the Arnold brand would be looking at worldwide sales potential not just a UK market.
For this reason I still see an A3 and A4 as more likely if indeed there is any foundation in the rumour.
Regards
Roy
I would hope they might look to scaling down some of their 00 range, that should slightly reduce costs. A King Arthur would be a good start.
This is their current and "coming soon" line up
http://www.hornby.com/locomotives/steam-locomotives.html?p=1 (http://www.hornby.com/locomotives/steam-locomotives.html?p=1)
Quite a few of the "usual suspects" that every body makes, but a good number of things to make an N gauger drool, GWR 2-8-0, 2-8-0T and 2-8-2T, 4000, County 4-4-0, LNER 2-8-0, 4-4-0, K1, L1 and 4-6-0s, P2, SR Arthur & Schools, T9 with 8 wheel tender, LMS 4P, Industrials, a half cab or two,
Quote from: Roy L S on August 22, 2014, 10:59:21 AM
you can be sure that Hornby International via the Arnold brand would be looking at worldwide sales potential not just a UK market.
I hope they don't go too far down that line of thinking. Just imagine - we get a perfect A3 and A4, top quality mechanisms, full range of Gresley coaches... in 1:160 scale :(
As we seem to be heading down the wish list road again, can I vote for :
Churchward Mogul
Collett 0-6-0
4 Wheel diesel railbus.
SR O2 Tank
Not much chance of any of those I guess but those four would suit me just fine.
Didn't Hornby catch a cold with their Lydlle End range, or was it down to losing their buildings designer? I have long wondered why Hornby are not well into the N gauge market with locos and rolling stock. It did cross my mind that Dapol Dave may have been lured to Hornby, which as we know was way off the mark as he's set up his own company. Perhaps the change in Hornby management has meant a change in strategy and there is some weight to this rumour. I would hope so as another player can only be a good thing IMHO.
Perhaps Hornby have been impressed by the interest in the Brighton Belle and have decided on a proper entry into British N.
The OO market is pretty much saturated, with manufacturers picking over some really obscure locomotives, so reducing some of their more popular lines into N might be seen as a new revene-stream.
I would expect to see some Pacifics as the most likely candidates - the A3, A4, Streamlined Coronation and WC/BB.
Wonder if they have been casting an eye over RMWeb and the interest in a Pendolino...?
I think that there is a lot of evidence pointing to the fact that N Gauge is a growing market and there is quite a bit of demand out there.
Regardless of world sales, the main market for UK based prototypes is the UK so I guess we're OK with them producing 148 scale models.
Even as an LNER man, I'd second Dorset Mike's wish to see a Nelson in N Gauge. Now how can we convince Heljan to shrink that LNER O2 they're producing? :hmmm:
If the rumours are true then hopefully Hornby will have sorted out their supply problems by the time any more N Gauge stuff is announced.
Bringing out a Gresley Pacific would signal a real intent into N scale by Hornby.
Arnold has an IC3 in its range so won't be surprised if a Pendolino and possibly a class 92 are added under their Arnold brand in future.
I'd be very happy to see Hornby enter the market as they have such a good network of dealers who could start selling. We may even see a return to N gauge in the Model Zone bits of WHSmith (if that's still going of course) if Hornby get in.
I would not like to see any more Gresley Pacifics, these already exist in a good standard and are such a well trodden path that new models need to start appearing to broaden the appeal of N gauge to more people. This will have the added benefit of not treading on Dapol's toes and not dampening Dapol's interest in N gauge production, making the choices from manufacturers available to us a viable three horse race.
I think that the market for a new N gauge A3 or A4, however good, would be very limited - there are just so many already out there from Minitrix, Farish and Dapol. I can't see them flying off the shelves..
I doubt that they would be good candidates for a triumphant return to the N gauge market.
Quote from: d-a-n on August 22, 2014, 12:49:15 PM
making the choices from manufacturers available to us a viable three horse race.
In no particular order
Farish
Dapol
DJM (yet to see any product)
Hornby
Can't be bothered going down the wish list track as have been disappointed too many times
I too would welcome hornby getting into n gauge...in a number of my posts in the past I have thought that although models from dapol and farish are much better in terms of detail than years ago another player would surely help to keep them on their toes
Quote from: belstone on August 22, 2014, 11:27:24 AM
Quote from: Roy L S on August 22, 2014, 10:59:21 AM
you can be sure that Hornby International via the Arnold brand would be looking at worldwide sales potential not just a UK market.
I hope they don't go too far down that line of thinking. Just imagine - we get a perfect A3 and A4, top quality mechanisms, full range of Gresley coaches... in 1:160 scale :(
That's what immediately crossed my mind (a very short journey) when Arnold (through Hornby) announced the 'Brighton Belle', but it is being produced in 1:148 scale. I can't see that changing
if (my emphasis) Hornby are putting some of their OO estate through the magic shrink ray - that would be a real 'shot myself in the foot' moment...
Quote from: newportnobby on August 22, 2014, 01:07:01 PM
Quote from: d-a-n on August 22, 2014, 12:49:15 PM
making the choices from manufacturers available to us a viable three horse race.
In no particular order
Farish
Dapol
DJM (yet to see any product)
Hornby
Can't be bothered going down the wish list track as have been disappointed too many times
Can we make that 'major manufacturers'? In view of the proportion of their appearance in my loco roster versus the total number I could add Union Mills to the above list, but others may quibble...
Picking from their current/coming soon 00 list I would go for the Arthur and the T9, maybe the Schools if they could do it quicker than Dapol seem to be doing.
Maybe a buy out or merger with Dapol could have some benefits; with Hornby involved in Continental N via Arnold, N gauge UK outline would seem to be a logical step.
Quote from: newportnobby on August 22, 2014, 01:07:01 PM
Quote from: d-a-n on August 22, 2014, 12:49:15 PM
making the choices from manufacturers available to us a viable three horse race.
In no particular order
Farish
Dapol
DJM (yet to see any product)
Hornby
Can't be bothered going down the wish list track as have been disappointed too many times
I wouldn't (yet) place DJM in amongst GF and Dapol - there are only plans for a handful of locomotives and very little in the way of rolling stock - and we've not actually seen anything from them yet. Bearing this in mind, once up and running, I'd class DJM as a small manufacturer like UM, not a major one like GF, Dapol or what Hornby could potentially be.
Totally agree on the wish list thing. Even things that have been slated for production have disappointed through enormous gestation periods, let alone the things I'd like to see!
Quote from: Ian Morton on August 22, 2014, 01:05:18 PM
I think that the market for a new N gauge A3 or A4, however good, would be very limited - there are just so many already out there from Minitrix, Farish and Dapol. I can't see them flying off the shelves..
I doubt that they would be good candidates for a triumphant return to the N gauge market.
I actually think they would be THE product if the focus is on the worldwide "collector's market" rather than solely the UK modelling one (which I suspect as it would undoubtedly be sold through Hornby International). They have a global reach that with all due respect to the others, their competitors just do not have.
However, let's not get too carried away by all this at present it is no more than a rumour.
Roy
I can see Hornby testing out the market for N Gauge before buying out Dapol.
The more the merrier but aren't Hornby in the financial poo?
What happened to the Brighton Belle? Has it been released yet? I think it was going to be 1:148 scale.
Quote from: Zwilnik on August 22, 2014, 03:54:18 PM
I can see Hornby testing out the market for N Gauge before buying out Dapol.
Interesting thought.
There have been (unfounded) rumours of links between Hornby and Dapol in the past.
Quote from: silly moo on August 22, 2014, 03:54:56 PM
The more the merrier but aren't Hornby in the financial poo?
What happened to the Brighton Belle? Has it been released yet? I think it was going to be 1:148 scale.
Yes, the "Belle" is to be 1:148, nut sure if there has been any news of release dates yet. It will only be sold via the direct sales route.
Hornby have had their issues and undergone a pretty radical shake-up. It is no secret that they have suffered pretty bad supply chain problems, but I understand they are now claiming to have resolved these and the newer 00 products like the K1 and Claude Hamilton they have in development certainly look very promising.
Roy
Quote from: Roy L S on August 22, 2014, 04:02:52 PM
Quote from: Zwilnik on August 22, 2014, 03:54:18 PM
I can see Hornby testing out the market for N Gauge before buying out Dapol.
Interesting thought.
There have been (unfounded) rumours of links between Hornby and Dapol in the past.
The simplest way for Hornby to get in and try the UK N market out would be to re-brand and sell some Dapol made engines. Hornby's channels and target market are quite different from Dapol's and Dapol's recent start into 'train sets' could be showing Hornby where they cross over into Hornby's target market that includes the more casual end of railway modelling.
Quote from: Zwilnik on August 22, 2014, 03:54:18 PM
I can see Hornby testing out the market for N Gauge before buying out Dapol.
This would not surprise me at all...they like buying established brand names and retaining them.
Hmmm...
Hornby are also very good with train sets.. and with homes becoming smaller...
you can see where my thinking is going..
Cheers
Mark
Quote from: Zwilnik on August 22, 2014, 04:20:08 PM
The simplest way for Hornby to get in and try the UK N market out would be to re-brand and sell some Dapol made engines.
From what you read here about people's thoughts on Dapol's quality control, I'm not sure Hornby would want to hang their coat on the same hook, as it were.
At least they might turn up to meetings though :hmmm:
This is all whistling in the dark. Before you think up wish lists
wait for any announcement. Rumours are just that.
Fanciful hopes of obscure locos are optimistic , if Hornby go
into N it will be big time stuff that will sell well, not some
rare loco from the grouping era.
Not sure how relevant this is to this discussion but did anybody else read the small piece in R.M a couple of moths ago about Hornby bringing a certain amount of production back to the UK due to quality problems and supply problems one undoubtedly linked to the other,being an ex QA bod I know only too well how easy it is to ruin the supply chain by not passing item that only just misses the mark but the job has to be done right if it's going to be done at all,also a lot of the skilled Chinese workers in the more rural areas are being lured away to the industrial centres for more money the scourge of the Western culture hits the far East yet again,however I digress here,supposing this move back to the UK is a smoke screen for the setting up of an N gauge production line here,it would not be the first time a firm put out a red herring to allay competitors fears or indeed to stop them interfering with the raw materials supply chain, something an electronics firm I worked for run into big time and things in the plant over here looked very iffy for a while.So in the big wide world of global business it would not be unusual to say one thing in order to advance another product line in almost total secrecy. Well that my penneth on it but would love to see Hornby in N as always had a soft spot for them as my first circle of rails was a Hornby clockwork 0 gauge and I love that set the loco had forward and reverse rods sticking out the back of the cab and if you were quick enough you could reverse it as it went past you at breakneck speed until the spring started to uncoil,happy memories of a bygone era. ;)
I've just read the thread with fascination, when i tell others what my hobby is there is always one word that comes out of their mouth, HORNBY, basically the name has a reputation!
IF Hornby are branching into OUR scale, it can only be good for US, the N gauge modeller! There is no point in Wishlisting, as others have already stated an A3 or A4 is a blatantly obvious choice. However if a buy out is on the cards, we can only hope they continue with N gauge development, and not do away with it!!
Steven
:NGF:
Quote from: andy.t.south on August 22, 2014, 11:36:04 PM
my first circle of rails was a Hornby clockwork 0 gauge and I love that set the loco had forward and reverse rods sticking out the back of the cab and if you were quick enough you could reverse it as it went past you at breakneck speed until the spring started to uncoil,happy memories of a bygone era. ;)
I had a Hornby tinplate clockwork set and I used to do that. Great fun!
The wheel's almost coming full circle ....
In 1996 Hornby negotiated with Dapol for purchase of tooling of several OO locos and rolling stock in their range. They weren't all re-released straight away because they received tweaks to improve their running qualities, assembly/design flaws and finish.
It's very interesting, at least for recently-tooled items, Dapol's modelled what's in the Hornby's range, even down to the exact types of Maunsell carriages they first brought out in OO in 2008.
I very much doubt it's a formal tie-up, it's just what Dapol spotted as gaps in the market and was able to release them sooner.
Depending on the success of the Brighton Belle, Hornby could negotiate again with Dapol for purchase of their N gauge range, review and improve their mechanical and electrical qualities and re-release them branded as Hornby.
Dapol could refocus on their OO and O gauge stuff, Hornby saves money from having to tool up a range from scratch and capture a portion of the UK prototype N scale market.
IF Hornby are coming back into N Gauge WHY? Did they drop the Lydle End range of lovely building without hardly any notice.
Bob
NEXT question... so are we gettin' a Brighton Belle or not?
If they do bring it out it's too late for me my pension won't stretch that far even with my tax refund which Val banked the same day , From now on it's probably just bits and bobs and repairs as required,shame as the new models are now so detailed but at least my old Poole stock can be repaired by me.
Bob
The Brighton Belle is most definitely on the way (next few months IIRC).
Cheers, Mike
Quote from: d-a-n on August 22, 2014, 12:49:15 PM
I'd be very happy to see Hornby enter the market as they have such a good network of dealers who could start selling.
They do, but they could have sold the Brighton Belle through dealers and instead decided to pull it from the retailers and sell it directly via themselves, so would you be looking at Hornby N gauge only available direct from them? Not really expanding the hobby to people who might not stubble across hornby.com
Before we all get too excited I suggest that a little reading might be worthwhile.
I know there is an aversion amongst a significant number on this forum to looking on RMWeb, but may I suggest a look on the Hornby section in that place might be revealing.
One will find there that the negative comments about Dapol (amongst others) by N-gaugers pale into insgnificance when placed against some of the things OO modellers say in their rants about Hornby management.....
All the very best
Les
(who reads them with a degree of amusement having no personal axe to grind regarding ANY manufacturer)
Quote from: MKP on August 23, 2014, 12:01:50 PM
Quote from: d-a-n on August 22, 2014, 12:49:15 PM
I'd be very happy to see Hornby enter the market as they have such a good network of dealers who could start selling.
They do, but they could have sold the Brighton Belle through dealers and instead decided to pull it from the retailers and sell it directly via themselves, so would you be looking at Hornby N gauge only available direct from them? Not really expanding the hobby to people who might not stubble across hornby.com
As this Brighton Belle is an experiment in the N gauge marketplace, I would've thought that selling direct would keep their costs down and allows an element of market research to take place surrounding this new foray. If they were to roll out a range, I strongly suspect it would be sold throughout the dealer network.
Hornby certainly has been taking some flack recently for the variable quality of some of their more recent steamers - the B1 was superb but the 72xx tanks and Duke of Gloucester were both criticised for poor quality and finish, with a lot of dislike for the moulded handrails and smokebox darts, etc.
If Hornby are reading this, the same level of integral moulding would be fine on an N Gauge 72xx or DoG and I'm sure no-one here would complain! :D
They've also been taking a lot of stick at Hornby for poor internal design- square axleboxes with round axles, non-concentric wheels and other things we moan about on this forum.
However, I've a pair of Arnold railcars now on Furtwangen Ost. They are superb in every way. I also have the railcar that is BEMO made in N-scale. Considering BEMO's reputation as the Rolls-Royce of narrow-gauge the comparison between the two makes, at least in my experience, is quite remarkable.
My Arnold railcars are the Bentley to the BEMO's Trabant.
Bodes well for the Brighton Belle when it finally arrives.....
Chyanging topic- I know there are still 61 (of 78) A3s I haven't yet got in model form, but given that Dapol haven't yet sold the 2500 or so of all "normal" varieties they produced is there really enough of a market for another one?
Likewise the A4, where I reckon there are about 3600-4000 about with a good few still unsold....
All the very best
Les
Quote from: captainelectra on August 24, 2014, 02:30:32 PM
If Hornby are reading this, the same level of integral moulding would be fine on an N Gauge 72xx or DoG and I'm sure no-one here would complain! :D
Is that true? Given that we are now used to separate handrails in N also, I think that it would be an equally retrograde step in N as in OO....
Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Dr Al on August 25, 2014, 10:47:04 AMIs that true? Given that we are now used to separate handrails in N also, I think that it would be an equally retrograde step in N as in OO....
Cheers,
Alan
Yes, this was all part of Hornby's 'design clever' philosophy - Actually, I think that this would best be a good idea, poorly executed and even more poorly marketed. It's no wonder Hornby seem to be moving away from this concept again now (compare the new Claud Hamilton and J15 against, the yet to be released, P2 in Hornby's OO range).
I agree that separately fitted handrails are a must in both modern OO and N, as are coupling hooks and vac pipes (amongst other items). However, how many of the other separately fitted components that drive the cost of a model upwards could actually (with some 'clever' design work) be integrally moulded on the body? Things like lubricators are typically separate components nowadays but do they really need to be?
A lot of the very small separate components are that way to share the mouldings and also to make it easier to mould without. Remember you've got to get a model out of the mould and the more undercuts and other magic involved the more horrible it gets.
Bachmann at least seem to be using pick and place assembly for some of their parts combined with small mouldings. If you look at the interior and underframe of their voyager its a lot of pick and placed parts on both sides. At least I assume its a pick and place machine not a line of very depressed Chinese people.
What actually costs for much of this is the number of humans in the assembly line. Robots don't get paid, don't go on strike (too often), don't need the loo and don't all disappear in the holidays and never return.
ie you can have all the etched handrails you like providing a machine fits them, or you mould around them.
It's really going through the same thing electronics went through. We went from
Rooms full of people in the UK with soldering irons
Rooms full of people in China with soldering irons
and the electronics of the time is designed to minimise component count
then it was automated and component count and complexity didn't matter much for production any more, it went in the pick and place machine and in the flow soldering machine and humans didn't do much of the work. Which is why things like the Raspberry Pi are made in South Wales not China.
We are now at the point of component count mattering again but that's because electronic components are now so cheap that the board size and external components actually impact the price. A serial port connector costs more than some microcontrollers!
I wouldn't be surprised to see Hornby/Arnold do a UK steam model. If they want to sell it to fit their Arnold line of famous trains of the world then I'd expect them to pick a UK named train pack or packs based on a train that will sell world wide
So IMHO:
- Coronation Scot
- Flying Scotsman
- Silver Jubilee
- Cornish Riviera
kind of trains. And when you get down to it there are not many of them known that way to the masses and especially outside of the UK.
Sadly I don't think a Dean single and clerestory set version is likely to be what they would pick even if they picked GWR. LMS streamlined railcar ? alas probably not.
Personally I'd guess more at the Silver Jubilee because 2015 is it's 80th Anniversary and the 80th anniversary of the world speed record, while the Scot is a couple of years later so can be done in 2017 :beers:
Silver Jubilee sets record railway speed 1935 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKdYY8eMsE0#)
Alan
Quote from: gc4946 on August 23, 2014, 08:48:32 AM
It's very interesting, at least for recently-tooled items, Dapol's modelled what's in the Hornby's range, even down to the exact types of Maunsell carriages they first brought out in OO in 2008.
I very much doubt it's a formal tie-up, it's just what Dapol spotted as gaps in the market and was able to release them sooner.
I am inclined to agree, I don't think there is any link at present between Dapol and Hornby. The thing to remember is that both compete against Bachmann who tend to release the same range in 00 and N gauge (although not always).
Basically this means that any model Hornby has done in 00 is a lot less likely to be released by Farish in N gauge which makes it attractive to Dapol. I would guess they want to avoid further duplications like the B1. Also, if it sells well in 00, that bodes well for N gauge sales.
Quote from: Les1952 on August 24, 2014, 09:45:06 AM
One will find there that the negative comments about Dapol (amongst others) by N-gaugers pale into insgnificance when placed against some of the things OO modellers say in their rants about Hornby management.....
Agreed, Hornby's QC and PR is not really any better than Dapol's. Also, the big box shifters report that the rates of returns for N are about the same as those for 00.
I think that if Hornby does make a fully-fledged entry the N gauge market, it would definitely be a good thing for us. However I will await something more concrete before I get my hopes up beyond the Brighton Belle.
Quote from: d-a-n on August 24, 2014, 12:35:23 PM
Quote from: MKP on August 23, 2014, 12:01:50 PM
Quote from: d-a-n on August 22, 2014, 12:49:15 PM
I'd be very happy to see Hornby enter the market as they have such a good network of dealers who could start selling.
They do, but they could have sold the Brighton Belle through dealers and instead decided to pull it from the retailers and sell it directly via themselves, so would you be looking at Hornby N gauge only available direct from them? Not really expanding the hobby to people who might not stubble across hornby.com
As this Brighton Belle is an experiment in the N gauge marketplace, I would've thought that selling direct would keep their costs down and allows an element of market research to take place surrounding this new foray. If they were to roll out a range, I strongly suspect it would be sold throughout the dealer network.
My guess is that Hornby are selling direct to try and maximize their margin on this model - no need to have to provide additional margin for the retailer by doing it this way. The motivation is probably to minimize the number of units they need to sell to break even, thereby reducing the risk of the project in what is a relatively unknown market segment for Hornby.
Possibly ... and part may also be this way they see directly how popular (or not) the model is, without having to rely on retailers saying how many they've sold or have left in stock ...
If they sell out (which, be honest, they do to retailers a fair bit) they'll have a much better piece of MI than having to use 2nd-hand (and unreliable) data ...
Quote from: Bealman on August 23, 2014, 10:18:08 AM
NEXT question... so are we gettin' a Brighton Belle or not?
Some decorated versions here in this album.
http://www.facebook.com/Arnold.Modelleisenbahnen/photos/pb.645450062149620.-2207520000.1409132087./775852192442739/?type=3&theater (http://www.facebook.com/Arnold.Modelleisenbahnen/photos/pb.645450062149620.-2207520000.1409132087./775852192442739/?type=3&theater)
Quote from: woodbury22uk on August 27, 2014, 10:36:24 AM
Quote from: Bealman on August 23, 2014, 10:18:08 AM
NEXT question... so are we gettin' a Brighton Belle or not?
Some decorated versions here in this album.
http://www.facebook.com/Arnold.Modelleisenbahnen/photos/pb.645450062149620.-2207520000.1409132087./775852192442739/?type=3&theater (http://www.facebook.com/Arnold.Modelleisenbahnen/photos/pb.645450062149620.-2207520000.1409132087./775852192442739/?type=3&theater)
...and it's really looking the dog's dangly bits. Also looks like the solebar cutaways that were present on the early EPs have been removed...
Quote from: Chetcombe on August 27, 2014, 12:36:16 AM
My guess is that Hornby are selling direct to try and maximize their margin on this model
According to Hornby they had existing contractual relationships which forced them to sell it this way in the UK (and via dealers outside of it). I assume its because it's technically an 'Arnold' product.
Alan
Arnold was being sold through Hornby International, but that got pulled around the start of this year. ( gleaned from reading a thread on Hornby at the other place).