Bachmann have posted some images of the new Southern Railway 12T Ventilated Van, which looks most impressive.
http://www.bachmann.co.uk/details.php?id=194 (http://www.bachmann.co.uk/details.php?id=194)
With all the recent debate about rising costs in China and whether the quest for perfection has gone a little too far, I would hold this model up as a prime example.
There seem to be multiple versions with or without vacuum cylinders or chassis tie-bars, presumably to cover versions of this wagon throughout its career.
I am probably going to be shot down in flames here but is this level of perfection needed for a small N Gauge wagon? The chassis is gorgeous, of course, with lots of separate components, which will need expensive manual assembly but is it necessary?
In future, something more generic could be produced to keep costs down and, perhaps, this may be a feature of future models. We are seeing detail now equivalent to some of the finest 2mm finescale and variations that would probably only be appreciated by a select few. Would it really be missed?
I'm not suggesting a return to the old Peco-style 10' chassis but something in between. After all, there are plenty of after-market suppliers to cater for the more dedicated modeller who craves 100% perfection.
The rise of internet forums is a problem for manufacturers, with certain "experts" only too happy to pounce on any perceived error or omission, which may be driving the recent trend for more and more detail.
For a high-profile release, like a locomotive, this may be a good thing but for freight stock, I would rather the costs were reduced, as customers would probably want more than one.
It's probably worth giving this model the benefit of the doubt, as the long development time may have started in happier times before the current crisis with Chinese manufacturing.
Hi Adam,
You make a good point. The hand assembly will push the price up and if you want a whole rake, then the extra quid a wagon adds up. It does come down to price though, as that detail is very appealing to me.
But it certainly makes you realize how awful the coupling is. If we go to detailed models like this, a different, less obtrusive coupling is a must.
Mark
I'd argue that if N Gauge is going to grow its share of the market then we need the current level of details not a return to the Poole era of shared chassis and compromises.
Happy modelling.
Steven B.
Quote from: Steven B on August 08, 2014, 12:33:20 PM
I'd argue that if N Gauge is going to grow its share of the market then we need the current level of details not a return to the Poole era of shared chassis and compromises.
Happy modelling.
Steven B.
Hi
I would agree.
Cheers
Paul
I'm with Mark on this one. This level of detailing really does show how awful the standard coupling is. Could costs be reduced slightly by including a small bag of detailing parts, rather than have them factory fitted?
Brian.
If labour costs are the problem they're meant to be, then presumably the availability of various versions/detail configurations won't impact this? The assembly line operative will be fitting one set of parts, as ever.
Quote from: B P on August 08, 2014, 12:40:58 PM
Could costs be reduced slightly by including a small bag of detailing parts, rather than have them factory fitted?
Be careful what you wish for! ViTrains took this approach with their Class 47. There were over a dozen sprues of parts that needed to be glued on. Not everyone (http://www.intertrains.com/details.php?pageid=43) appreciated this approach, to say the least.
That said, I've read online that sprues of detailing parts are pretty standard on continental and US H0 model locomotives. I guess it depends on how essential these parts are. I don't mind adding optional extras like bufferbeam details, but adding ubiquitous parts like handrails would be annoying, in N scale at least.
Cheers, NeMo
Hello Adam
I agree with you completely on this. Most of the detail is too small to be noticed once it is on a layout. Some simplification and reduced cost would be nice. I'll still be running my Parkwood/Peco versions.
Dodger
I am all in favour of more detailed models and I agree, we don't want to slip back here. If a particular vehicle gained a piece of underframe equipment (for example) at a particular time then I think it is great that different liveries correctly depict the "before" and "after" versions.
There is a point to be made about separately fitted details though. I remember Dapol reflecting that the presence of so many small parts (which had to be manually assembled in the factory) was one of the reasons for the high cost of the Gresley coaches. With hindsight, some of the components on the ends and undersides could have been molded to reduce cost without seriously compromising the quality of the product.
Just beware of taking this too far though. Look at the pasting Hornby have taken over "design clever". :smackedface:
Quote from: captainelectra on August 08, 2014, 10:32:05 AM
Bachmann have posted some images of the new Southern Railway 12T Ventilated Van, which looks most impressive.
http://www.bachmann.co.uk/details.php?id=194 (http://www.bachmann.co.uk/details.php?id=194)
Typical, just as I've finished a complete rake of them from NGS kits!! :D
Pictures also in the latest "Bachmann Times", a copy of which I received yesterday along with a copy of the 2014 catalogue...
There already is a simpler and lower cost alternative where some of the assembly is performed by yourself. Peco van kits.
I'm quite happy to have highly detailed models on offer, especially van kits like this with NEM pockets. I try not to buy anything which doesn't have exquisite detail out of the box anyway (pretty much all of the Poole era Farish stuff.)
Quote from: Karhedron on August 08, 2014, 01:48:37 PM
Just beware of taking this too far though. Look at the pasting Hornby have taken over "design clever". :smackedface:
To be fair, the compromises of 'design clever' in OO are going to be a lot more noticeable than in N, where some of the more intricate underframe detail is going to be completely hidden at normal viewing distances. I'm all for adding noticeable detail (vacuum brake pipes, brake reservoirs, chassis tie bars, battery boxes, etc), but all the rodding and pipework under the chassis? I don't know...
The standard of detail on the blue riband range is excellent and I don't think it needs any great further changes.. I think I would how ever be prepared to pay a bit more on locos that were more reliable out of the box and this is where bachmann should focus a bit more and not tiny bags of detailing :doh:
I agree. While no one can deny that detail has come in leaps and bounds over the last 10 years, quality control at both Bachmann and Dapol still leaves something to be desired. Dapol's 2-year warranty helps in this regard but I wouldn't mind paying a bit more for more reliable motors and an end to dry-soldered joints.
With all due respect to all the far more experienced modellers than myself on this forum it seems to me from the above that the manufacturers are damned if they do and damned if thy don't superdetail their models.
Guess the old saying is true 'You can't please all of the people all of the time'
Quote from: Karhedron on August 08, 2014, 02:51:53 PM
I wouldn't mind paying a bit more for ... an end to dry-soldered joints.
Amen to that, brother!
Really annoying having Dapol steam locomotives that depend upon flimsy bits of wire soldered onto the moving bits of metal that connect locomotive with its tender. Either use robust wire properly clamped into place (like the Union Mills locos) or else something that disconnects if the locomotive takes a tumble or otherwise gets jolted. Indeed, even casual use seems calculated to wear these wretched joints out!
Cheers, NeMo
I think Adam makes a valid point.
What surprises me though is that the big manufacturers often play fair, at least with the customer (ot; who can say what it is like to be a worker in one of the Chinese factories?). What surprises me is that the 'bag of bits' is a freebie. I would have thought a more enterprising (or exploitative, depending on your POV) concern would charge us for the 'bag of bits'. And in fact if they are making several versions of the same vehicle I don't know why they didn't just try and design it so that the purchaser bought from a selection of different bags of bits. That way the purchaser only has to have the bag they need, and those that aren't bothered don't buy anything.
I guess it's all down to economies of scale in the end.
Just my 2p.
Kirky
When the Farish thunder birds came out Terry Henson and myself spent quite a lot of time cutting of a small amount of the overlong sand pipes as they actualy touched the rails causing a short or de railing the Locos now these were a piece of black wire that really couldn't be seen so not really worth while,And yet they still had moulded cooling fans that everyone could see , why not forget the sand pipes but put see through grills with visible fans?...I took this point up with Graham Hubbard his answer was cost but at the same time it must have cost to put the pipes on. Which would you have preferred.
Quote from: talisman56 on August 08, 2014, 01:59:46 PM
Quote from: captainelectra on August 08, 2014, 10:32:05 AM
Bachmann have posted some images of the new Southern Railway 12T Ventilated Van, which looks most impressive.
http://www.bachmann.co.uk/details.php?id=194 (http://www.bachmann.co.uk/details.php?id=194)
Typical, just as I've finished a complete rake of them from NGS kits!! :D
Pictures also in the latest "Bachmann Times", a copy of which I received yesterday along with a copy of the 2014 catalogue...
But surely you gained more satisfaction and enjoyment out of building the kits, and being able to say "I made those", than just buying them from a shop ready made?
Chris
Quote from: captainelectra on August 08, 2014, 10:32:05 AM
I am probably going to be shot down in flames here but is this level of perfection needed for a small N Gauge wagon? The chassis is gorgeous, of course, with lots of separate components, which will need expensive manual assembly but is it necessary?
If we want N-gauge to be taken seriously be other modellers, many of whom still regard N-gauge as crude toys, this level of detail is absolutely necessary... As far as is pratical, the gap in level of detail between N and 00 RTR models should be closed (by improving the N gauge models and not by a 'design clever' downgrade of the 00 models...)
In fact the SR vans that prompted the OP are clever models. - From two bodies and 2 chassis, they can produce 4 distinct variations.
Considering the time and effort that goes into the design of a wagon or coach they are fantastically cheap! Many modellers have become used to 'cheap and cheerful' and have unrealistic expectations of the value of a decent model. If you allowed a fair amount for your time, you couldn't scratch built anything remotely close for the cost...
Quote from: Papyrus on August 08, 2014, 06:30:02 PM
Quote from: talisman56 on August 08, 2014, 01:59:46 PM
Quote from: captainelectra on August 08, 2014, 10:32:05 AM
Bachmann have posted some images of the new Southern Railway 12T Ventilated Van, which looks most impressive.
http://www.bachmann.co.uk/details.php?id=194 (http://www.bachmann.co.uk/details.php?id=194)
Typical, just as I've finished a complete rake of them from NGS kits!! :D
Pictures also in the latest "Bachmann Times", a copy of which I received yesterday along with a copy of the 2014 catalogue...
But surely you gained more satisfaction and enjoyment out of building the kits, and being able to say "I made those", than just buying them from a shop ready made?
Chris
Of course... I was just going with the perennial theme of a manufacturer bringing out a RTR version of something that has taken time and effort to kit-/scratch-build...
Quote from: PLD on August 08, 2014, 08:28:43 PM
In fact the SR vans that prompted the OP are clever models. - From two bodies and 2 chassis, they can produce 4 distinct variations.
All Farish need to do is produce the later plywood side version as well...
The chassis they have chosen to do (10' w.b. 4-shoe Morton type) is a fairly 'bog standard' kind of chassis that wouldn't look out of place under a whole range of wagons, including non-SR ones. I doubt they've moulded 'SR' on the axleboxes, so they may be planning using some of the parts on other future types.
The recent LNER wagons were more interesting in depicting the LNER 8-shoe brakes which hitherto have not been available other than as 2mm Assoc. etches.
I suppose the level of detail verses price and verses reliability and verses cost will always vary between different modelers and different layout styles. (A long continuous run needs less detail than a minimum space shunting layout.
If the consumer base was big enough to support extremes and those of us (the majority ?) in between then we have to accept that we will never all be satisfied or nearly so. For UK outline modelers, lets face it - there are not enough of us to support a variety of manufacturers to know, let alone satisfy, our compromised demands.
By all means let the debate continue but do not be surprised if a resolution is not accepted.
Quote from: BobB on August 08, 2014, 10:02:34 PM
A long continuous run needs less detail than a minimum space shunting layout.
Sorry, Bob, but I think that is a bit of a sweeping statement and it's very much dependent on what sort of continuous run is modelled :hmmm:
Quote from: BobB on August 08, 2014, 10:02:34 PM
By all means let the debate continue but do not be surprised if a resolution is not accepted.
I entirely agree with you and, to be honest, I believe a resolution will be impossible as we all have our own take on detail v price v longevity
Quote from: newportnobby on August 09, 2014, 12:45:13 PM
Quote from: BobB on August 08, 2014, 10:02:34 PM
A long continuous run needs less detail than a minimum space shunting layout.
Sorry, Bob, but I think that is a bit of a sweeping statement and it's very much dependent on what sort of continuous run is modelled :hmmm:
I agree completely, especially being one of many on here who are in the process of building exactly that - a highly detailed continuous run layout ;)
Paul
Quote from: Sprintex on August 09, 2014, 03:13:07 PM
Quote from: newportnobby on August 09, 2014, 12:45:13 PM
Quote from: BobB on August 08, 2014, 10:02:34 PM
A long continuous run needs less detail than a minimum space shunting layout.
Sorry, Bob, but I think that is a bit of a sweeping statement and it's very much dependent on what sort of continuous run is modelled :hmmm:
I agree completely, especially being one of many on here who are in the process of building exactly that - a highly detailed continuous run layout ;)
Paul
Likewise here, although mine has an out and back as well, I am trying to detail it as much as I can so it doesn't look like a train set. :)
There is always a balance between detail and price. Hattons have the estimated price for these vans at £10 - is that excessive? I honestly don't know, though I think in general it is probably around the price we will have to get used to for 4 wheel wagons.
I suppose the real question is - how much of a saving would a reduction of the detail make?
I'm sure there are cases where some parts can be moulded as one piece rather than separate parts, but I'd be loathe to see too much "dumbing down". Its taken a long time for modellers to take N as seriously as OO and it would be a crying shame to see that lost.
Cheers, Mike
Responding to PLD's post, is it that important that other modellers take N gauge seriously? I'm an N gauge modeller and this is a forum dedicated to such.
I don't care what modellers in other scales think, and I have stated many times here that I find 00 gauge models look like plastic toys.
Grunt. >:D ;)
Yeah, I think that's the right approach. I don't see the point in worrying about other modellers
taking or not taking N gauge seriously , after all they're unlikely to switch gauges one way or
the other. I'm not sure about the toy like appearance of 00 gauge though , especially when you see
some European models by Bemo, HAG etc. I think it's what you become accustomed to looking at.
Possibly some Z gauge modellers make disparaging remarks about N !
Quote from: Bealman on August 12, 2014, 11:03:17 AM
Responding to PLD's post, is it that important that other modellers take N gauge seriously?
Very much so. I was just such an "other modeller" until N gauge models started to appear that I personally could take "seriously" :thumbsup:
Hi
Unless the detail/quality improves then how are you going to entice people to switch scales? So it is very relevant.
Cheers
Paul
Quote from: Bealman on August 12, 2014, 11:03:17 AM
is it that important that other modellers take N gauge seriously?
Definitely - it helps the market grow. If the market grows then we all get more models of things we want.
Alternatively, we (as in the N gauge market) stagnate or regress in detail and accuracy and start to see the market slip away as other scales see improvements (or even the status quo).
Cheers, Mike
Quote from: red_death on August 12, 2014, 10:52:03 AM
There is always a balance between detail and price. Hattons have the estimated price for these vans at £10 - is that excessive? I honestly don't know, though I think in general it is probably around the price we will have to get used to for 4 wheel wagons.
I suppose the real question is - how much of a saving would a reduction of the detail make?
I'm sure there are cases where some parts can be moulded as one piece rather than separate parts, but I'd be loathe to see too much "dumbing down". Its taken a long time for modellers to take N as seriously as OO and it would be a crying shame to see that lost.
Cheers, Mike
According to the insert with the Farish 2014 Catalogue, MRP on the SR vans is £15.75 each :goggleeyes: - is that excessive? I think I'll order a few more kits from the NGS...
Quote from: talisman56 on August 12, 2014, 02:40:06 PM
According to the insert with the Farish 2014 Catalogue, MRP on the SR vans is £15.75 each :goggleeyes: - is that excessive? I think I'll order a few more kits from the NGS...
Good for you (with my NGS hat on)! But MRP is often not what people actually pay hence why I quoted Hattons.
Cheers, M
Quote from: red_death on August 12, 2014, 04:10:00 PM
Quote from: talisman56 on August 12, 2014, 02:40:06 PM
According to the insert with the Farish 2014 Catalogue, MRP on the SR vans is £15.75 each :goggleeyes: - is that excessive? I think I'll order a few more kits from the NGS...
Good for you (with my NGS hat on)! But MRP is often not what people actually pay hence why I quoted Hattons.
Cheers, M
...but your quote was Hatton's 'estimate', which may be revised (upwards?) when they get a hold of their trade price based on the MRP...
I would say, in my opinion, that the level of detail n gauge now enjoys from the main manufacturers is about right. I'm intrigued as to how far the level of detail can improve, save for see through vents for cooing fans, etc., and that is more dependant on the space inside the bodyshell.
Regarding price, I feel we get good value (reliability issues notwithstanding, that's a different matter - we're talking about detail here) for the level of detail we now enjoy.
If I was being picky, I'd like to see a batch of each locomotive or rolling stock items manufactured without numbering/naming, to allow us to number them ourselves. I don't necessarily see how this can be that much different from producing a batch of weathered items........
I'd also like to see Farish issue dummy locomotives, like Dapol do
Other than that (and reliability) I've no real complaints.
Quote from: ScottyStitch on August 12, 2014, 04:31:59 PM
If I was being picky, I'd like to see a batch of each locomotive or rolling stock items manufactured without numbering/naming, to allow us to number them ourselves. I don't necessarily see how this can be that much different from producing a batch of weathered items........
Past experience from Heljan in 00 has suggested that unnumbered models sell poorly and so most manufacturers don't want to do it anymore. Anyone confident enough to renumber a model is likely to be able to remove the existing numbers.
Quote from: talisman56 on August 12, 2014, 04:27:56 PM
...but your quote was Hatton's 'estimate', which may be revised (upwards?) when they get a hold of their trade price based on the MRP...
I don't understand the point you are trying to make??? I made it clear that the Hattons price was an estimate...(though it is based on the MRP at the time).
Quote from: Karhedron on August 12, 2014, 04:39:53 PM
Quote from: ScottyStitch on August 12, 2014, 04:31:59 PM
If I was being picky, I'd like to see a batch of each locomotive or rolling stock items manufactured without numbering/naming, to allow us to number them ourselves. I don't necessarily see how this can be that much different from producing a batch of weathered items........
Past experience from Heljan in 00 has suggested that unnumbered models sell poorly and so most manufacturers don't want to do it anymore. Anyone confident enough to renumber a model is likely to be able to remove the existing numbers.
That was the outcome of a previous discussion, and is probably quite right. I was just mentioning it as part of my ramble.....
I'm not sure where I stand on this at all.....I'm a VERY keen supporter of driving the N Gauge part of our hobby forward by bringing in more detail , being more demanding about what we will & won't put up with (from manufacturers) , going for more realism . BUT (like Red Death) a little voice in the back of my head keeps asking , "ten quid for a van ? Nearly ten quid for an open wagon ??" Expletive deleted . I'm glad I've got pretty much all the rolling stock I need at the moment . Mind you , that didn't stop me buying 6 Stanier & new Bulleid coaches last month , to bring a bit of variety to the coaching stock ! Did I need them ? Absolutely not - but then again.......Hmmmmm .
Quote from: red_death on August 12, 2014, 04:10:00 PM
Quote from: talisman56 on August 12, 2014, 02:40:06 PM
According to the insert with the Farish 2014 Catalogue, MRP on the SR vans is £15.75 each :goggleeyes: - is that excessive? I think I'll order a few more kits from the NGS...
Good for you (with my NGS hat on)! But MRP is often not what people actually pay hence why I quoted Hattons.
Cheers, M
True, looking at Hattons it looks like the discounted price will be about £13 at release (max allowed discount 15% for a period at launch) . For that you get a superbly detailed wagon with such features as NEM pockets. I think it is simply the price we have to pay now. Have fewer, sometimes when they are of this quality less is more..
Take another example, the Farish SR "Pillbox" Brake. This has all the features of the SR van plus (I have read not checked it myself) apparently even a close-coupling mechanism! Sure, you can buy a "wanabe" SR brakevan kit - Peco have done one for years, and it will only cost you about fiver plus glue, paint and transfers but it will never be anywhere near as accurate or well finished as the Farish one. It just depends what people want.
Roy
The other thing to bear in mind is that it is not only increases in detail that are driving prices up. Bachmann's explanations of the rising costs in China are well documented and I suspect existing models will be going up as well.
Better to look at the situation as being, "prices are rising, but at least we get nice detailed new models out of it". ;)
Quote from: Karhedron on August 12, 2014, 05:14:00 PM
Better to look at the situation as being, "prices are rising, but at least we get nice detailed new models out of it". ;)
Couldn't have put it better myself. :beers:
Quote from: Bealman on August 12, 2014, 11:03:17 AM
Responding to PLD's post, is it that important that other modellers take N gauge seriously? I'm an N gauge modeller and this is a forum dedicated to such.
I don't care what modellers in other scales think, and I have stated many times here that I find 00 gauge models look like plastic toys.
Grunt. >:D ;)
Sadly that blinkered "my scale (or region or era or control system etc) is best and I don't care about anything else" attitude is far too prevalent in this hobby, and unless yours happen to be the dominant sector is a dangerous and self defeating stance to take.
Good modelling is good modelling whatever the scale or subject and it is dissapointing that some don't appreciate it...
Would you not like to see more N gauge layouts featured in the Magazines, or more N gauge layouts appear at exhibitions, or more trade support for N gauge, or more talented modellers take up the scale???
The wider the exposure and the greater the market, the more chance there is of manufacturers expanding their output and the more chance of all our 'wish lists' being fulfilled.
None of this will happen unless N gauge is viewed a serious modeling scale and viewed on a level playing field with other sectors.
Clearly you have a passion for the scale, which is laudable, but what is needed is to spread that passion outside the closed shop of those already modelling in the scale
Paul
Quote from: PLD on August 12, 2014, 06:06:37 PM
Quote from: Bealman on August 12, 2014, 11:03:17 AM
Responding to PLD's post, is it that important that other modellers take N gauge seriously? I'm an N gauge modeller and this is a forum dedicated to such.
I don't care what modellers in other scales think, and I have stated many times here that I find 00 gauge models look like plastic toys.
Grunt. >:D ;)
Sadly that blinkered "my scale (or region or era or control system etc) is best and I don't care about anything else" attitude is far too prevalent in this hobby, and unless yours happen to be the dominant sector is a dangerous and self defeating stance to take.
Good modelling is good modelling whatever the scale or subject and it is dissapointing that some don't appreciate it...
Would you not like to see more N gauge layouts featured in the Magazines, or more N gauge layouts appear at exhibitions, or more trade support for N gauge, or more talented modellers take up the scale???
The wider the exposure and the greater the market, the more chance there is of manufacturers expanding their output and the more chance of all our 'wish lists' being fulfilled.
None of this will happen unless N gauge is viewed a serious modeling scale and viewed on a level playing field with other sectors.
Clearly you have a passion for the scale, which is laudable, but what is needed is to spread that passion outside the closed shop of those already modelling in the scale
Paul
September Modeller is great for N - no less than three layouts featured and Railway of the Month the fantastic Melton Mowbray North.
Roy
Quote from: PLD on August 12, 2014, 06:06:37 PM
Good modelling is good modelling whatever the scale or subject and it is dissapointing that some don't appreciate it...
Hi
That is very, very true. You can also learn a lot from other modelling disciplines and it is a good idea to a least take a look at some of the techniques used by the Military Modellers.
Cheers
Paul
I can see the logic in helping market growth.
At no time did I suggest that other scales had lesser standards of modelling. I have seen some excellent layouts in other scales. I am also aware that many techniques such as scenery and wiring apply to all scales.
My point is one of amusement - this looking down the nose at N seems to peculiarly British thing.. prevalent here too, by the way - one of the reasons I left the British Railway Modellers of Australia.
It certainly does not occur in Europe or the US, where N has long been accepted as a mainstream modelling scale.
Quote from: Bealman on August 13, 2014, 07:00:25 AM
I can see the logic in helping market growth.
At no time did I suggest that other scales had lesser standards of modelling. I have seen some excellent layouts in other scales. I am also aware that many techniques such as scenery and wiring apply to all scales.
My point is one of amusement - this looking down the nose at N seems to peculiarly British thing.. prevalent here too, by the way - one of the reasons I left the British Railway Modellers of Australia.
It certainly does not occur in Europe or the US, where N has long been accepted as a mainstream modelling scale.
I think that's a bit of sad post you've contributed there, George.
In our club we have O, OO, EM, P4, OOn, and N gauge models all currently being built. No body looks down on anybody else's chosen scale, except in good humoured banter; 'we all celebrate when another chair is laid on the p-bore layout' for instance.
I don't blame you for leaving a club that has some members wh look down on other modellers, but I like to think hat as a community of modellers we can all celebrate each others work, no matter what scale, era etc. In fact hat is he best thing about this forum, here is almost no modelling snobbery.
Cheers
Kirky
Kirky
I couldn't agree more, mate. I think you have misread my post.
The very thing I love about this forum is the friendly and fun nature that we have here. Your club and the projects you have going sound great!
I have said before here, we are all just playing trains.
There is no snobbery from this NGF member, I assure you. Actually I'm thinking about modelling rain gauge ;)
George
Quote from: Bealman on August 13, 2014, 09:06:22 AM
Kirky
I couldn't agree more, mate. I think you have misread my post.
The very thing I love about this forum is the friendly and fun nature that we have here. Your club and the projects you have going sound great!
I have said before here, we are all just playing trains.
There is no snobbery from this NGF member, I assure you. :thumbsup:
George
I don't think I did misread your post George, but my 't' key doesn't work very well on my ipad, and the chn were getting a bit tetchy, so I pressed post before re reading. So where is says 'he' and 'here' it should say 'the' and 'there' respectively.
To clarify, I agree completely, the NGF has (almost) no modelling snobbery, which is the best thing about this forum.
And sorry if it sounded like I was accusing you of snobbery, I really wasn't. I was only saying that I thought it was disappointing that you were made to feel that you had to leave the BRMA due to snobbery.
Anyway, back to Mr Tumble!
Kirky
Yes indeed, mate. Let's get back on topic.
I had other issues with BRMA at the time (20 years ago).
Absolutely no offence taken. As you say, Kirky, it's all about modelling, and for the record, I love the detail on new models.
Which is the subject of the thread.
:beers: Cheers,
George