Morning All
The topic of "collectability" of Poole built Farish locos came up between myself and another member the other day and I wanted to put the discussion out there. I'm not sure if "collectability" is the right word to use, but we'll run with that anyway, since I think you'll understand what I mean by the end of this post.
Specifically, what are your opinions on Poole built locos becoming highly collectable in the future?
By the term "highly collectable" I am also meaning valuable. I'll start us off with my thoughts;
1) For something to become highly collectable (value increasing) it has to have a limited supply, usually dictated by it not being in production anymore. This goes for pretty much anything highly collectable, whether it's classic cars, china dining sets, you name it.
2) Future values of INDIVIDUAL locos will be influenced by the following;
- How rare that actual loco is (how many were there in the production run / was it a Special Edition)
- The quality of the body and mechanism (is the paintwork intact, does it run)
- The quality of the box
- Stamped registration card showing shop / date purchased (one of those quirky things that can affect prices in a collector's market)
- The originality of any repairs (does it have the original wheelsets, original motor etc.)
3) Future values will not, in my opinion, be dictated to a large extent by the superior running quality and detailing of Chinese built Graham Farish, since we are, in effect, comparing apples to oranges in the eyes of the collector. The desirability of the Poole built stock from the collector's viewpoint is that it is of British manufacture. He might not even run them, merely have them on display.
Now, I know we are not at the point yet where Poole built stock has become seriously collectable, but how long (if ever) do you think it will be before this happens? There are still plenty of locos coming up for sale on ebay and auctions suggest a market price anywhere between 30-60 pounds for a working loco in good condition with box.
As a genuine collector of Poole built locos myself, I open up the floor to you all.
Daniel
Snowflakes chance in hell, methinks. I have a drawer full of 'em with split gears and assorted problems. I do have the original boxes, though! ;)
Quote from: Bealman on August 06, 2014, 10:10:34 AM
Snowflakes chance in hell, methinks. I have a drawer full of 'em with split gears and assorted problems. I do have the original boxes, though! ;)
What makes you think that Bealman? Do you think there are just too many models out there compared to the number of people who actually want them.
Very few problems which can't be fixed on old Farish stock.
Dan
I keep the boxes for all my purchases just in case I feel I want to part with them but, like George, the running qualities vary from non runner to very good. I'm no good at repairing things but if, and when, an old Poole class 101 becomes hugely collectable I'll be first in line to get someone repair it. Luckily my Castle and Pannier run OK.
Old Bassett-Lowke stock, Hornby clockwork, Hornby Dublo, Triang...collectable because of their age and the fact that, in their day, they were regarded as toys, while at the same time, highly desired by young boys as "THE" thing to get as a present.
N gauge never had beginnings like that, especially Farish. They were already targeting a specialist market - modellers.
N gauge stuff just doesn't have the oomph historical factor. It's not old enough.
Anything generic is unlikely for a while as Farish produced the same running numbers on stock in some cases for close on 20 years. Therefore I think there are too many out there now in some cases, especially with new and superior models coming from the current manufacturers.
Even special edition locos don't seem to go for much more money these days than normal indicating they aren't hugely in demand and collectable at this time.
A few exceptions to this include the Strathclyde liveried 101 DMU, the 6 wagon box sets, 5 wagon/J94 box sets, and anything with Poole blackened wheels (especially the blue A4 Silver Fox, and blue A3), which are fairly rare. I've collected a few such models (8F, King, Duchess, J94, 4MT tank) and held onto them, and rarely run them since they are clearly not that common.
Beyond this I'd agree further with the above - so many stock models have mechanical issues and therefore a lot have been meddled with.
It'll be interesting to see if they become more collectable in time as clean, boxed, undamaged models get rarer, and one that strikes me as likely to have a lot of collectable value even now is the "Magnum layout" - these must be pretty rare?
Cheers,
Alan
There are a few that go for relatively large amounts due to their rarity such as the original Golden Arrow set with its box, but not much I can think of. Maybe in fifty years time !
There are probably much better investments 8)
I'd hope not; For me, it would be a shame to see these models 'put away' - they're for running round a layout.
It's like caging a bird. :(
Thanks for the input Bealman, interesting thoughts!
Quote from: Bealman on August 06, 2014, 10:27:46 AM
N gauge never had beginnings like that, especially Farish. They were already targeting a specialist market - modellers.
That's true Bealman. Do you think then that "specialist market" = not enough future buyers / collectors? I'd say future values will be dictated by supply vs demand. Supply is finite now and decreasing (due to cannibalisation / Johnny stepping on Daddy's loco etc.) and so it's going to be dictated in the longer run by demand. It could be that there simply isn't the demand out there, and maybe there never will be, I don't know. Look at how much those Intertrans 148 trucks go for. I would say that is an even more specialised market.
Quote from: Bealman on August 06, 2014, 10:27:46 AM
N gauge stuff just doesn't have the oomph historical factor. It's not old enough.
I would say that for British model train collectors it does have the historical factor, since it was British made. Was it not the last British made stock on a commercial scale, or was it Hornby? Age is normally a factor for collectable items because it is a determinant of availability - the older something is, the rarer it tends to be (not always the case) and so we think if something is old it's more collectable, if it's new it's less so. I would say rarity trumps age (and I know we're not at the rare stage yet). Again, think Intertrans 148.
Quote from: Dr Al on August 06, 2014, 10:28:11 AM
Anything generic is unlikely for a while as Farish produced the same running numbers on stock in some cases for close on 20 years. Therefore I think there are too many out there now in some cases, especially with new and superior models coming from the current manufacturers.
If there is a large quantity of the stuff out there (having been produced for 20 odd years) then I agree, they aren't exactly going to become collectable overnight. The new and superior models being released to the market will speed up the process of "flushing out" the old stock and provides an opportunity for it to be bought at a cheaper price.
Quote from: Dr Al on August 06, 2014, 10:28:11 AM
Even special edition locos don't seem to go for much more money these days than normal indicating they aren't hugely in demand and collectable at this time.
I have noticed this too. The Special Edition's were what, runs of 500 pieces? Perhaps this is confirmation that the models just aren't desirable at the moment.
Quote from: Dr Al on August 06, 2014, 10:28:11 AM
Beyond this I'd agree further with the above - so many stock models have mechanical issues and therefore a lot have been meddled with.
I am of the opinion that even with mechanical issues these locos can be returned to their original condition. If you can do it with original components then even better.
Enjoying the conversation.
Dan
Agree with FeelixTC's post, things like model trains are meant to be run for fun, don't see the point of putting
them on a shelf. It's like the rich people who buy Leicas and never take a snap with them. Possibly
some people might buy things for investment, but usually you're better to put your cash to better use.
A few years ago in the papers there was a lot of stuff about investing in fine wines, rare stamps,
vintage cars, usually by the time the mugs have spent their cash on such "investments" the market
has peaked. Also many of the rare items are sold at auction with the auctioneer taking a large percentage
plus VAT.
Quote from: EtchedPixels on August 06, 2014, 10:33:17 AM
There are probably much better investments 8)
I wouldn't call them an investment, that's when something is truly within the realms of the antique collector's market, which we are not in at this stage by a long way.
Quote from: FeelixTC on August 06, 2014, 10:35:51 AM
I'd hope not; For me, it would be a shame to see these models 'put away' - they're for running round a layout.
It's like caging a bird. :(
Felix, are you talking about collecting them and not running them? I agree, it would be like caging a bird. Nothing wrong with collecting AND running them! I had mine boxed up for 12 years - that was shame enough!
Dan
I always thought that as soon as you took something out of the box it wasn't collectable any more... yet alone restoring a broken model... sorta like gluing a vase together then saying its collectable.
And to be honest, I don't really care, therefore I am bowing out of this discussion. :thumbsup:
George
Quote from: DesertHound on August 06, 2014, 11:03:05 AM
Quote from: FeelixTC on August 06, 2014, 10:35:51 AM
I'd hope not; For me, it would be a shame to see these models 'put away' - they're for running round a layout.
It's like caging a bird. :(
Felix, are you talking about collecting them and not running them? I agree, it would be like caging a bird. Nothing wrong with collecting AND running them! I had mine boxed up for 12 years - that was shame enough!
Dan
It's inevitable; if they become 'valuable' using them risks devaluing them, so they're left in boxes in a hermaticaly sealed storeroom. You may as well buy Del Prado...............
The guys who are staunch "runners" I can sympathise with, however, the two aren't mutually exclusive - you can do both, collect and run. Also, to collect something doesn't mean you're doing it solely for the purpose (even at all for the purpose) of investment.
Ultimately though, if someone wants to "cage their bird" then that's their prerogative isn't it? Some people might not be into running model trains but simply like the look of them. They might marvel at looking at them in a display case. Whilst we can't understand that, it might bring joy to someone.
The value of anything collectable is subjective. The value lies in what the buyer believes the item is worth, whether that be value from a resale (collector's market) perspective, value from utilising the item (running the loco) or value from just owning it (sticking it in a display case).
I'd agree with Agrippa's point about auction houses for high value items though. I'm a numismatist and the auction houses do handsomely out of the sale process. Ebay is chipping away at that though, although only when the seller is known to the numismatic community (but I believe their fees aren't cheap either).
Cheers
Dan
I personally don't begrudge anyone who wants to collect something just to stick it on the shelf, it's their money and so fine by me. Not saying I would do it with model trains, but it's up to the individual.
Quote from: Bealman on August 06, 2014, 11:06:48 AM
I always thought that as soon as you took something out of the box it wasn't collectable any more... yet alone restoring a broken model... sorta like gluing a vase together then saying its collectable.
That would be true for sealed boxes. In this case though I don't think running the items would seriously devalue them if they were collectable. So long as they were well maintained and cared for.
Quote from: Bealman on August 06, 2014, 11:06:48 AM
And to be honest, I don't really care, therefore I am bowing out of this discussion. :thumbsup:
Didn't mean to upset anybody Bealman.
Dan
Quote from: Only Me on August 06, 2014, 11:24:58 AM
Wow if you collect Poole built locos I've got loads of them which I have no use for that I purchased when I first got into the hobby!!...... I would much prefer a Dapol or Bachmann detailed model than one of the old poole versions that are more akin to a box on slightly dubious closeish chassis...
Stick 'em on fleabay or offer them on the N'porium!
Dan
Quote from: DesertHound on August 06, 2014, 11:18:53 AM
Ultimately though, if someone wants to "cage their bird" then that's their prerogative isn't it?
Of course it is!
I didn't say it was wrong; but that I think it would be a shame.
No offence taken. :thumbsup:
I am currently buying new stuff and my drawers full of old Poole stuff will probably never again see the light of day. When I cark it they'll be me daughters problem. ;D
:beers: George
Quote from: FeelixTC on August 06, 2014, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: DesertHound on August 06, 2014, 11:18:53 AM
Ultimately though, if someone wants to "cage their bird" then that's their prerogative isn't it?
Of course it is!
I didn't say it was wrong; but that I think it would be a shame.
Sorry Felix, I wasn't having a pop and the rhetorical question wasn't directed solely at you. Although I did use your "cage the bird" analogy so I can see it came across that way.
I agree, it would be a shame. I have my Poole built stock running most days, indeed I think running them is likely to keep them in better condition than not running them. They were built to be run after all - I have one of my Special Edition's running as we speak!
I sense a slight undertone in some of the replies to my discussion topic. It really was meant as a genuine question. I'll be the first to stand up and say run your locos, enjoy them. To me I don't see the point of having them otherwise (but like we said, each to their own huh?)
I'm someone who is genuinely interested in Poole built stock and pretty much Poole built stock only. I'm interested in the history of the company, the manufacturing techniques, the mechanisms, the lot. This also includes the desirability, or otherwise, of Poole stock in the future. I don't have a crystal ball and couldn't tell you either way whether the prices will go up or down. It won't be the playstation generation collecting them, that's for sure!
cheers
Dan
None taken :no:
As a (really clumsy) analogy:
When I was a wee lad, I got a James Bond DB5 toy car. Not the big Corgi one, with the rear bullet-proof screen and the revolving number plates, it was the smaller (read: cheaper) 'Matchbox' (I think) version, me mam was poor.
Still, this version did have the ejector seat, with the wee plastic villain, that you could eject by pushing a button.
Ever the practical one, me mam said: "I'll take that villain and keep it safe; you'll lose it"
That *was* the moment I 'lost it'. Irony was that I still had the villain, long after I'd lost the car.
My 'argument' here is that stuff like this is for 'playing with' and to not do so robs the owner of that pleasure.
There's no right or wrong here, but for me; I'd keep 'investments' and 'hobbies' seperate, otherwise there are bound to be conflicts.
Quote from: DesertHound on August 06, 2014, 11:28:28 AM
Quote from: Only Me on August 06, 2014, 11:24:58 AM
Wow if you collect Poole built locos I've got loads of them which I have no use for that I purchased when I first got into the hobby!!...... I would much prefer a Dapol or Bachmann detailed model than one of the old poole versions that are more akin to a box on slightly dubious closeish chassis...
Stick 'em on fleabay or offer them on the N'porium!
Dan
What Dan said!
I could make use of 'em :claphappy:
Quote from: FeelixTC on August 06, 2014, 12:01:58 PM
None taken :no:
As a (really clumsy) analogy:
When I was a wee lad, I got a James Bond DB5 toy car. Not the big Corgi one, with the rear bullet-proof screen and the revolving number plates, it was the smaller (read: cheaper) 'Matchbox' (I think) version, me mam was poor.
Still, this version did have the ejector seat, with the wee plastic villain, that you could eject by pushing a button.
Ever the practical one, me mam said: "I'll take that villain and keep it safe; you'll lose it"
That *was* the moment I 'lost it'. Irony was that I still had the villain, long after I'd lost the car.
My 'argument' here is that stuff like this is for 'playing with' and to not do so robs the owner of that pleasure.
There's no right or wrong here, but for me; I'd keep 'investments' and 'hobbies' seperate, otherwise there are bound to be conflicts.
Think I had one of those DB5's ... t'was a hand-me-down so I didn't even have the luxury of meeting the villain ???
Agree with your point on hobbies vs investments. If I can pull us away from the "investment" word and all of the negative connotations that go with it, I see it like this (again, not directed at you Felix, I think someone else first coined the term investment on here) ...
We have a collection of models (in this case Poole models) that we bought solely for the purpose of enjoying / running / playing with, whatever we want to call it. I think most of us treat them with respect, handle them carefully, maintain them to the best of our ability etc. Many keep the boxes, and store their locos in separate trays for ease of access and also because those boxes are fiddly and not practical for getting the locos in and out of. Some do it also because the boxes get destroyed if constantly opened, closed, opened, closed. So, I would say if that describes most of us, then we do value what we have. That's not really from an investment point of view (we didn't buy them for that) but we at least want to pass them on one day, either to the next generation or to recoup some of the money spent buying them.
So, I would say let's substitute the word asset for investment. I see my locos as assets. Firstly to be enjoyed by me, with pride taken in their upkeep and running, and secondly as something to pass on one day.
I know that's not something everyone cares about, but I'm trying to get us away from the "investment" word - I hate it in relation to this hobby.
Cheers
Dan
Limited runs were of 500 I believe. Some are more popular than others, e.g. the Strathclyde 101, and until recently the LT 57xx. Many seem not so though, particularly diesels whose liveries have been redone on newer models by Bachmann.
Another more desirable pair are the 159 and 101 in NSE livery which were not made for very long and therefore are quite liked by those who model the 1990s in that area.
The Golden arrow set is extremely rare as the mechanics of the loco were terrible - the plastic chassis that split its gears etc. A running one of these in original condition is virtually non-existent.
The fact that so many have been badly meddled with does probably make the clean examples more rare, but it's yet to cause prices to rocket. Prices were way higher around 2003, not due to collect-ability, but due to complete lack of supply of new N gauge models at that time. 101s in particular were hitting £120... as were Peco Jubilees! I remember trying to boost my stock collection at that time with some difficulty at those prices! Who'd pay that now for one....
I think many of us who run primarily still have some Poole stock, but a lot have shifted it on, or relegated it to the drawer or display cabinet - robust and good running when fettled right, yes, but simply cannot compete with the standard of new models. Even the Bachfarish versions of Poole stock are starting to look dated now to even the most sympathetic Farish fan (which I'd say I was lol!).
It would be interesting to know the numbers of the standard models that were produced to see how rare they really are.
Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Bealman on August 06, 2014, 11:06:48 AM
yet alone restoring a broken model... sorta like gluing a vase together then saying its collectable.
Especially given some parts are no longer available as original spares, such as the class 47 underframes and the plastic L clips that hold the bogies on.
Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: DesertHound on August 06, 2014, 11:49:16 AM
I'm someone who is genuinely interested in Poole built stock and pretty much Poole built stock only. I'm interested in the history of the company, the manufacturing techniques, the mechanisms, the lot.
You should seek out "Model Rail Video No.2" by Telerail - this had a good quantity of footage filmed at the Poole factory, very soon before it was taken over by Bachmann and closed, including various shots of manufacture of various models.
Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Dr Al on August 06, 2014, 12:45:48 PM
Quote from: Bealman on August 06, 2014, 11:06:48 AM
yet alone restoring a broken model... sorta like gluing a vase together then saying its collectable.
Especially given some parts are no longer available as original spares, such as the class 47 underframes and the plastic L clips that hold the bogies on.
Cheers,
Alan
I wouldn't compare a broken vase stuck together with glue with a piece of engineering, which is designed to have components replaced as / when they wear out. If I had a 1960's Ferrari would it be deemed not collectable because I'd changed the cam belt?
Now, if I've glued the body back together because somebody stepped on it, I'd agree.
True, certain items are no longer available, but these are not the components that wear out. If you have a class 47 then it's unlikely your fuel tank or L clips are going to wear out (they could possibly snap). Brushes are still available, as are new magnets.
I'd say that pretty much everything you need to restore an original Farish is available from Bob at BR Lines. If you want copper comms / plastic armature couplings / original steel pick-ups / original Farish wheels etc. then agreed, you'd have to cannibalise.
I'll also go along with anything which "might" become collectable would need to have its original components. I think that's what you were getting at with your vase analogy Bealman.
Dan
Quote from: Dr Al on August 06, 2014, 12:45:48 PM
Quote from: Bealman on August 06, 2014, 11:06:48 AM
yet alone restoring a broken model... sorta like gluing a vase together then saying its collectable.
Especially given some parts are no longer available as original spares, such as the class 47 underframes and the plastic L clips that hold the bogies on.
Cheers,
Alan
You can 3D print the L clips for the bogies
I for one like the older models and given the price of some of them now it would be wrong not too. Ive seen fully working models go for less than £30 even £20 which for me is a clincher. In terms of collectability most arent worth much at all. However it seems the farish I/C HST still sells for £50+ so obviously not everyone's swapping to dapol ones.
However if you want collecting i also collect 1/400th scale airliners and have got over 1000 of them (1012 at the last count) and some do get displayed but you do begin to question your sanity after a while!
Richard
Quote from: DesertHound on August 06, 2014, 01:19:19 PM
True, certain items are no longer available, but these are not the components that wear out. If you have a class 47 then it's unlikely your fuel tank or L clips are going to wear out (they could possibly snap). Brushes are still available, as are new magnets.
Not wear out, as so much are more fragile than others - L clips can snap if mishandled, and clearly this is common given original supplies have been exhausted, similarly the fuel tank assemblies.
New magnets aren't original either - they are Bachfarish ones, so not strictly accurate for a Poole loco, as they have no dimple in the top surface. Similarly the brushes, are Bachmann units, slightly different to 1980s brushes originally shipped in the models. Whilst this all sounds potentially completely anal, collectors can be so, and as such it's difficult to know where the line is drawn on originality - everyone has their own take on it.
Suffice to say for me it's good that spares are still out there - one wonders if this will be the case with the models we buy new today in 20 years time!
Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: B757-236GT on August 06, 2014, 01:33:46 PM
I for one like the older models and given the price of some of them now it would be wrong not too. Ive seen fully working models go for less than £30 even £20 which for me is a clincher. In terms of collectability most arent worth much at all. However it seems the farish I/C HST still sells for £50+ so obviously not everyone's swapping to dapol ones.
However if you want collecting i also collect 1/400th scale airliners and have got over 1000 of them (1012 at the last count) and some do get displayed but you do begin to question your sanity after a while!
Richard
With a handle like that Rich, aviation wouldn't be your line of work by any chance would it? I also have a few airliner diecasts but to stop me getting carried away I made a rule that I'd only buy those which I've actually worked on in real life.
Dan
Sorry, I'm on me phone at moment and don't want to quote a lengthy post, just the end bit. My phone skills don't run to that!
However, in relation to the vase analogy.... that's not what I was getting at. A work of art that gets broken can be glued up, but nobody is gonna even want to look at it, yet alone want it. "Oh, but this was a lovely piece of Wedgewood once - belonged to me grandmother - but me missus threw it at me one night and it bounced off me head and broke against the wall. But I glued it back up. You can hardly see the join...." No one will be interested.
And that's Wedgewood... not broken toot tooh toys.
I'm sorry, but I simply can't see old N scale stuff as ever being collectable.
Thanks Bealman. That's okay, it's an open forum and I'm interested in all opinions. I'm not doubting you or saying you are wrong, I'm not 100% convinced myself even, but wanted to see what you all thought.
I guess time will tell with regards to whether they are collectable or not. I'm quite a sentimental one and do like to old Poole stock. Perhaps it's the fact it was made in the UK that I'm more interested in than the actual detailing. Don't get me wrong, the newer models have detailing that could never be dreamed of from Romany Works, running ditto.
That said, I think durability-wise the Poole stuff tends to be built like a brick "you know what" house in comparison to the Chinese stuff. I think it will be around for a lot longer.
Cheers for the replies all. Just wanted to gauge what people thought. I, for the record, am not interested in "investing in trains" for my retirement but would like to think they will be of value to somebody some day.
Dan
My gut feeling is that Farish stuff is not likely to become especially collectable for the simple reason that fairly large amounts of most models were made. Price will always be a matter of supply and demand. OK they are not being made any more but many were built unchanged for 20+ years meaning that they are not likely to become a scarce resource.
Models that have commanded high prices are things like Peco Jubilees, Farish NSE stock and some of the Dapol collectors club models (Silver Link anyone?). Despite different vintages, in all cases there are a limited number of the models and no real alternative for people who want to run that particular prototype.
Having said that, I suspect that the Peco Jubilee prices headed south once the BachFar version was released.
Quote from: DesertHound on August 06, 2014, 02:20:17 PM
I guess time will tell with regards to whether they are collectable or not. I'm quite a sentimental one and do like to old Poole stock. Perhaps it's the fact it was made in the UK that I'm more interested in than the actual detailing. Don't get me wrong, the newer models have detailing that could never be dreamed of from Romany Works, running ditto.
That said, I think durability-wise the Poole stuff tends to be built like a brick "you know what" house in comparison to the Chinese stuff. I think it will be around for a lot longer.
Dan
Quite agree with you there Dan, I'm keeping all of mine as they will still be running when the modern fleet stop completely. Gradually building up a stock of essential spares.
Dodger
I have a draw full of them, some with awful paint jobs on them and was about getting rid of them. I de-motored a couple of them and gave them to my nephew with some glued down track on a board and some lima wagons and coaches to use as push around trains. I didn't realise people still wanted them. :hmmm:
People collect anything, and if theres sufficient interest in the subject then it will take off as supply is exceeded by demand - didnt James May have an example of OO collecting on one of his programs where everything had to be mint in box, he bought some MIB, threw the boxes and ran it. Mine are in display cases and from there come out for runs - If you have them its nice to see them rather than hidden away. Miniature functional works of art.
Theres a bit of this collecting going on with minitrix warships and the rare names - they fetch a premium. Probably if a genuine 47378* by farish came up and was spotted by sufficient collectors we may see something interesting for farish but until the really old stuff gets short in supply we wont really know. One things certain - older stuff will "probably" still be running when newer stuff has to be for display only as its unfixable and there are no spares but that wont stop us trying to fix it.
In theory the red and silver label farish Poole items plus the first issues ought to be the items to show signs of collecting before anything else but dapol may have a head start with limited batch sizes of 250 (class 73 Pullman etc)
* see...
http://www.ngauge.org.uk/farish_diesels.php?lclass=16 (http://www.ngauge.org.uk/farish_diesels.php?lclass=16)
item 8008 - one went on ebay several years back and I know were 4 are.
L clips - think Bob is already printing these or at least having his own made.
Regards
Russ
Quote from: DesertHound on August 06, 2014, 02:01:33 PM
Quote from: B757-236GT on August 06, 2014, 01:33:46 PM
I for one like the older models and given the price of some of them now it would be wrong not too. Ive seen fully working models go for less than £30 even £20 which for me is a clincher. In terms of collectability most arent worth much at all. However it seems the farish I/C HST still sells for £50+ so obviously not everyone's swapping to dapol ones.
However if you want collecting i also collect 1/400th scale airliners and have got over 1000 of them (1012 at the last count) and some do get displayed but you do begin to question your sanity after a while!
Richard
With a handle like that Rich, aviation wouldn't be your line of work by any chance would it? I also have a few airliner diecasts but to stop me getting carried away I made a rule that I'd only buy those which I've actually worked on in real life.
Dan
Nope i only fly in the cattle section but most of my fathers side of the family have worked in aviation from the early days of Bristol and Parnells through to Airbus.
Id forgotten about 47378, ive only ever seen one and it was on £42 too! I suppose 20215 fits in the group too but i suppose with the reissue of 20227 has rendered that a little moot!
Richard
I have a small collection of Hornby Dublo 3 rail because there is something about it that appeals to me. The Poole Farish is like a smaller version of Dublo, not excessively detailed, robust and easy to work on.
Dublo was made in vast quantities and now only the mint boxed pieces command high prices. It is coming down in price because there are less and less people collecting it.
I wonder if Farish will be the same.
I also have some Lone Star Locos which aren't worth much because they are play worn. They were my first toy trains.
I collect things for sentimental reasons so while I look after them to the best of my ability that hasn't stopped me running them.
That's an interesting perspective Silly Moo. Could it be that prices decrease for second hand Farish stock in the medium term (I think they already have), since there are less people collecting them?
I'd say that could hold for a while.
Dan
Prices are likely to decline in the short-medium term as Farish-Poole stuff falls further behind the curve in terms of level of detail on current models.
It remains to be seen if it commands enough affection/nostalgia/rarity to increase again in the future.
Quote from: Karhedron on August 07, 2014, 11:21:12 AM
Prices are likely to decline in the short-medium term as Farish-Poole stuff falls further behind the curve in terms of level of detail on current models.
It remains to be seen if it commands enough affection/nostalgia/rarity to increase again in the future.
I think that's a fair analysis Karhedron. The only point I'd differ on is that I don't know if second hand prices will drop much further (they're already quite low). My reasoning is that new stock is quite highly priced and that will "drag up" the price of the old stuff, since some people will not wish to pay 100 pounds plus for a loco. Now, I know we're comparing apples with oranges in a sense, but some people will not / cannot pay the higher prices for the new stuff.
I wonder if DCC has affected the prices if the older stuff too. I'm a DC man but with most people being DCC now, perhaps they are not interested in the DC only stuff, or in converting it.
As you say Karhedron, in the longer term, who knows.
Dan
:hmmm:
A good, insightful post. We don't know what the future holds... and I am not trying to be smart here. I regard every day as a bonus.
They may become collectable, they may not.
Anyone interested in a few Triang catalogues from the early 60s?
;D :thumbsup:
George
One of the reasons for the decline in interest in Dublo is the fact that some the people who remember it fondly and collect it are kicking the bucket.
Interesting point.. stay tuned! Had a recent Dublo run on when I was in UK! Advice needed... don't change channels! :thumbsup:
George
DCC has affected the prices of second hand N here, most of the members of our local club have DCC locos so when any second hand non DCC locos come up for sale they aren't very interested unless the prices are really low and the locos can be easily converted The newer coaches and wagons are much better too.
We do get quite a few people contacting our club with second hand N hoping that because it is 70's vintage it is worth a fortune. We have to patiently explain that most of our members are interested in the new super detailed DCC models and that the seller won't be able to retire on the proceeds of his father's model railway collection.
I still like Poole Farish though.
Is there a lot of Graham Farish N in S. Africa Silly Moo? I'll be in Cape Town end of the month, do you know any places to pick up second-hand stock there (shops?). How are the prices compared to the UK given the state of the Rand? I'm not in the UK that much either, so always on the lookout during my travels.
Dan
Unfortunately there's not much in the way of model railways in SA, there are very few modellers, of those most model HO/OO. I would estimate N gauge is about 10% of the market.
Most N Gaugers here model American Outline. Our club has fifty members and only four or five have an British stock.
There is a shop in Johannesburg that has a bit of new Farish. I'm not sure about Cape Town. Anything new is very expensive.
Most of us buy online and those who are brave enough have their purchases sent by post. Other purchases are done on visits to the UK or the States. Visiting relatives and business colleagues are roped in to bring items in.
In over twenty years I can only think of four or five times that I have ever come across Farish at a swapmeet.
I hope you prove me wrong and find a big collection of Farish in Cape Town but the odds are against it.
Veronica.
To a certain extent though second hand N gauge in the UK is pretty few and far between, most shows have a few bits which due to the price has been round the track more times than a greyhound! Weve got one dealer down this way, Brian James Models but he only does a few toyfairs now but hes normally good on price but its just dribs and drabs now with some very wildly optomistic pricing to go with it! Ive seen old farish models that sell on ebay for £30 have £60-£70 price tickets! Needless to say when it does come up such as at TINGS if its good its normally gone by lunchtime. In fact at Tings last year the Mk2 TSOs sold out before the show opened to the public, i think CMC could have sold 100 or so given everyone seemed to ask for them! Strangley though i saw one sell for only £26 on ebay the other night, i was very very suprised!
Richard
Quote from: B757-236GT on August 07, 2014, 08:24:27 PM
Weve got one dealer down this way, Brian James Models but he only does a few toyfairs now but hes normally good on price but its just dribs and drabs now with some very wildly optomistic pricing to go with it! Ive seen old farish models that sell on ebay for £30 have £60-£70 price tickets!
This is my experience too. Last few months I've spent quite a bit on the Hattons secondhand website. Their prices seem, to me, pretty reasonable. Mind condition and recent Farish and Dapol wagons for £5-10 for example. So I might order £20-30 worth of stuff every couple of weeks. It's an inexpensive bit of retail therapy, and sometimes you land something nifty like a few Dapol Dogfish you just can't get anywhere else.
But when I visit the model railway shows I find the secondhand prices put me off very quickly. Really old Farish wagons for £10 or £12, Poole-era locomotives for over £50 and so on. Given you can get new stuff for much the same price (especially at shows!) and secondhand stuff for less online, I just don't see how this business model works. Perhaps there are people who prefer to buy this way?
Of course the flip side is that (perhaps) these secondhand traders are offering better prices to the sellers than the online retailers.
Cheers, NeMo
I think half the problem is there isnt the supply, the internet has made it easier to sell models and i know of lots of people who got into the S/H game because there was good money to be made especially if they kept it low level and avoided the people from the tax office. Ive lost count how many farish panniers ive seen or old compartment coaches or Po wagons. I did notice in the tings thread thst someone said why do people go on saturday, i think half the reason is to actually be able to buy stuff, some of the reports i heard from those who went sunday said there were only scraps left!
Me personally i love the old models, easy to work and easy to do something with and now fairly cheap, i do a few detailing, respray jobs and then end up with a fleet thats personalised to me!
Richard
Quote from: B757-236GT on August 06, 2014, 01:33:46 PM
I for one like the older models and given the price of some of them now it would be wrong not too. Ive seen fully working models go for less than £30 even £20 which for me is a clincher. In terms of collectability most arent worth much at all. However it seems the farish I/C HST still sells for £50+ so obviously not everyone's swapping to dapol ones.
Sorry for resurrecting this slightly older thread; I came across a Farish HST (InterCity Executive livery, model number 8126 IIRC, Poole-era producton) in a 2nd-hand shop here in Japan for about GBP 50 at current exchange rates... Much as I love to give British models abandoned in a far and distant country a loving new home (and use it as a bogeyman to frighten my Dapol HST into submission), for that money I could get something much nicer; the paint job was pretty primitive and the single MK3 coach empty on the inside except for a couple of thick roof support poles. So it stayed where it was.
Quote from: railsquid on December 23, 2014, 11:19:02 PM
Sorry for resurrecting this slightly older thread; I came across a Farish HST (InterCity Executive livery, model number 8126 IIRC, Poole-era producton) in a 2nd-hand shop here in Japan for about GBP 50 at current exchange rates... Much as I love to give British models abandoned in a far and distant country a loving new home (and use it as a bogeyman to frighten my Dapol HST into submission), for that money I could get something much nicer; the paint job was pretty primitive and the single MK3 coach empty on the inside except for a couple of thick roof support poles. So it stayed where it was.
The Farish HST is one of their
really pretty old models now - it came out something like 1981 or 1982. So the design is ~32 years old now, and it shows.
Having said that, if it was one with white nylon gears and a 5 pole motor, that price is about right. You can fit coach interiors - BR Lines sell them. Next to the Dapol model though, it'll always look dated.
Cheers,
Alan