:ngauge:
:NGaugersRule:
anyone excited yet? much more exciting that the world cup.....
tim
I shant bother to get one.
It will only contain items I want but cant/shouldn't afford so I am safer off without it :angel:
I'll get one when it's out. Something no doubt to slaver over and wonder if I'll live long enough to receive anything I might pre order :worried:
Sadly all it will be is Bachmann staking their claim on something they won't produce; but at least ensuring that Dapol cannot not produce it either!
I am looking forward to it as well and hoping for some goodies for those of a Western persuausion. ;) Mind you, we are still waiting for the Castles, Hawksworth coaches, 6400s and autocoaches that were announced over a year ago. So far not even an EP for any of them. :'(
Quote from: Claude Dreyfus on June 21, 2014, 08:11:28 PM
Sadly all it will be is Bachmann staking their claim on something they won't produce; but at least ensuring that Dapol cannot not produce it either!
That seems a little unfair Claude, as far as I am aware the only items they have so far announced but haven't produced are the 9F (Dapol got there first so they dropped it), the 57xx (Ditto and now they are doing a 64xx instead), Ivatt 2MT Tank (Ditto they have done the 3MT Standard tank instead).
It is true that the Ivatt 2-6-0 was many years in gestation but the end product certainly turned out to be worth the wait. True, Dapol said they would have done it had Bachmann not announced it first but with the best will in the world, embracing the latest in motor technology as the Bachmann model does I would speculate it is far superior to anything Dapol would have managed several years earlier.
Karhedron is correct that EPs of 64xx and Castle are yet to be seen but that doesn't mean work isn't in hand. A case in point is their "Scot" which came from nowhere to launch a few years ago.
It appears speculation is that we will see a new Class 40 which would be very welcome, but as to the other two items I wouldn't care to say. Of course they need not be locos. If they are, another "useful" mixed traffic team loco would be fine my me - Ivatt 4MT 2-6-0 "Flying Pig" anyone??
Roy
Quote from: Claude Dreyfus on June 21, 2014, 08:11:28 PM
Sadly all it will be is Bachmann staking their claim on something they won't produce; but at least ensuring that Dapol cannot not produce it either!
Dapol were guilty of this too. Claimed to be producing a 390 years ago - nothing happened. I emailed Farish about to ask if they were going to make one and they said 'No because Dapol are doing it' and Dapol never did :(
Would like a SWT Desiro, preferably the 444
it would be nice to see some suburban stock - twins and clerosity , and for the frieght side a tyne dock consert hopper .
alan
Quote from: mr bachmann on June 23, 2014, 04:12:45 PM
and for the frieght side a tyne dock consert hopper .
Dream on ... there were only 50-ish ever made, far too small to be of interest to BachFar.
Dunno if it made it to N, but there are two kits in OO for this ...
I know that it is claimed that electric trains do not sell well, but I am struggling to understand why there is no 4BEP in N or 00. Three of the four cars already exist in the 4CEP sets, so only the Trailer Buffet would be new tooling. Many 4CEP owners would add a 4BEP to their existing trains, and the existence of the 4BEP would possibly boost sales of the remaining unsold 4CEPs.
Hopefully the new Magnum Opus from Bachmann/Graham Farish will fill this gap.
Re 4 cep / 4 bep That would mean a proper thought on actual trains and looking at the use of tooling to provide other models never going to happen you have to remember that we are not the customers the retail outlets are in this world so they just take what ever is made.
example class 47/7 and dbso in scotrail livery any coaches ?
My bets are on some mk 2 's in scotrail other wise some nice new items in the bargin bin in six months because they cant sell em
mind you i do have a photo of above loco on a speedlink service so might get one
Quote from: Roy L S on June 23, 2014, 11:05:38 AM
It appears speculation is that we will see a new Class 40 which would be very welcome, but as to the other two items I wouldn't care to say. Of course they need not be locos. If they are, another "useful" mixed traffic team loco would be fine my me - Ivatt 4MT 2-6-0 "Flying Pig" anyone??
Roy
I know where you're modelling :D
I'd go for those two as well, and while I'm being greedy how about a new Peak.
Hoping all your wishes come true Roy.
Cheers
Dave
I don't care what's in the catalog as long as they a) produce it and b) it has NEM pockets so we can fit auto uncouplers.
Quote from: MikeDunn on June 23, 2014, 04:59:46 PM
Quote from: mr bachmann on June 23, 2014, 04:12:45 PM
and for the frieght side a tyne dock consert hopper .
Dream on ... there were only 50-ish ever made, far too small to be of interest to BachFar.
Dunno if it made it to N, but there are two kits in OO for this ...
dont know - 00 Bachmann Summerset & Dorset 2-8-0 , make em' by the hundred's , and they sell ...
alan
My guess for new toolings will be class 40, a 25/3
... and possibly a LMS 4-4-0 Compound - this was in the Poole range but never re-appeared when the rest of the Farish tools went to China.
Quote from: mr bachmann on June 23, 2014, 07:58:26 PM
dont know - 00 Bachmann Summerset & Dorset 2-8-0 , make em' by the hundred's , and they sell ...
Lemme see ... a model of a class of locomotive (11 made, 1914 - 1964, 2 preserved) that had a
wide-spread visibility compared with a set of 30 wagons (I was a bit optimistic earlier at 50-ish) that lasted 1953 to 1974, were
only seen between Tyne Dock Bottom and Consett Low Yard, and all were scrapped ... Not like-for-like, is it now ?
There are
few people interested enough in this
very limited appeal wagon type to make it worth even one very small-scale model company doing it in small runs (
maybe 10 kits a batch ...); and frankly, I am surprised a
second company started making them recently seeing as another had already done them ! Although I suspect in each case, the company owner either fancied making something no-one else did, or was commissioned to make a small number for a rabid modeller and decided to keep the kit 'on the cards' !
It must be admitted that I am one of those 'few', as is a mate of mine (he used to play on them as a kid in the marshalling yard, whereas SWMBO's granddad used to operate them out of Tyne Dock ...), hence I happen to know a reasonable amount about these units. Not bought any of the OO kits yet, but I'll get at least two (if only to make the 'spare set' up that was held @ Tyne Dock for emergency use).
Mike
.. I hope the "electric" families ...class 390 Pendolino and the others class 87/90/91 new version..possibly with 6 pin Dcc connectors..
Quote from: MikeDunn on June 23, 2014, 04:59:46 PM
Quote from: mr bachmann on June 23, 2014, 04:12:45 PM
and for the frieght side a tyne dock consert hopper .
Dream on ... there were only 50-ish ever made, far too small to be of interest to BachFar.
Don't see why not. It's not the sort of wagon you'd only buy one of, but rather a full rake, so you wouldn't need many modellers to be interested in it to get a high total run. It would go extremely well with the 9F that Farish dropped :-X
The only reason I put that last sentence in is I think they would have made a better job than Dapol did :-\
Quote from: newportnobby on June 23, 2014, 09:28:59 PM
It's not the sort of wagon you'd only buy one of, but rather a full rake
I see where you're coming from - but the sets were
short due to the weight of cargo ... OK, unlike me (:D) you'd buy a handful - but even so, it's an
extremely niche interest ... It's not like the wagon types that were found pretty much everywhere; these never went outside their operating area of 28 miles end-to-end.
Quote
It would go extremely well with the 9F that Farish dropped :-X
Makes no difference; the Tyne Dock fit for the 9F isn't something that is available in N ... in OO it is, but again - it's
extremely niche and
only as a modification kit from a small company ... Only 10 of them were used in Tyne Dock, but
all were refitted quite differently from all the other 9Fs ... rivet-counters would string you up if you put an ordinary 9F on the front of these wagons :laugh:
But I suppose if we can get Crosti boiler 9Fs in OO ... !
There are a fair few things I would like to see, but I have only heard a few rumours floating around.
I believe Bachmann have said they are announcing three new locos. From what I've heard is that two of them will be a Re-tooled Class 40 and a Re-tooled King.
Ollie
:NGaugersRule:
Quote from: woodbury22uk on June 23, 2014, 05:22:51 PM
I know that it is claimed that electric trains do not sell well, but I am struggling to understand why there is no 4BEP in N or 00.
Part of the problem is that relatively few modellers in 00 have the space to run 8 or 12 coach trains. If the model is not being done in 00 as well, that reduces the chances of it being done in N gauge (even though prototypical-length rakes are more feasible).
I think that part of the problem is that there
are still lots of unsold CEPs. That supports Bachmann's view that electrics do not sell well. Or at least, not well enough to get production slots that could be allocated to faster-selling diesel or steam prototypes. :(
I think Karhedron has pretty much summed it up here personally.
Although we would all like to see our favourite loco(s) or rolling stock items produced and believe there would be a demand, stock remaining on shelves (and some at giveaway prices) tells it's own story and is hard to ignore.
Roy
Interestingly, we ran a 'wishlist' poll in 2012 (and again in 2013). The 2012 results were sent to both Farish and Dapol.
Within the top 13 steam locos desired were a Schools, a Castle, a King and a Princess Coronation. The Castle and the Princess Coronation subsequently appeared in the Farish 2013/14 catalogue and the Schools may (don't hold your breath) appear from Dapol.
Diesel wise, we had an even better success rate. Within the top 10 were Classes 33, 25, 50, 22, 31, 40, 17 and the LMS twins. The classes 33, 25, 50, 31 and 40 were requests for new tooling versions. So....we have Dapol having produced the excellent class 22 and supposedly a 33 and a 50, the Farish 2013/14 catalogue featured new class 25 and 31, and the class 17 will be available from DJ Models.
I'm not saying the NGF poll necessarily had any effect on the manufacturers, but it does go to show we're all on pretty much the same wavelength. It will be interesting to see the Farish catalogue to see how many more locos are featured from our poll :D
For once I don't think Bachmann have to worry too much about Dapol getting the "drop" on them as far as new product announcements are concerned. I think Dapol have enough on their plate delivering already promised models, many release dates having been pushed back a fair way and some with only limited signs of development so far. It seems to me that diversification into 0 with the forthcoming "Terrier" etc has taken some resources away from the N range at least for a time.
Turning to Farish predictions, it doesn't exclude it by any means, but the King is not available in the Bachmann 00 range so no sharing of R&D costs, and would it not compete with the yet to be released Castle for sales potentially?
Looking at the 00 range, and thinking cost (both in terms of production and end price) could we see another 0-6-0 or possibly? The C Class must surely be a candidate?
I think the 40 is nailed on, I have heard the same prediction from so many different people, but beyond that, looking at the existing 00 range the Patriot stands out to me as a reasonable bet.
However what can't be ruled out is a completely new model being announced both for 00 and N simultaneously!
Roy
I did not expect to see the Castle from Farish as it is part of Hornby's 00 range so in some ways a King would be no less expected. However I do agree that it might compete with the Castle to some extent.
I have heard rumours that Farish are considering a Modified Hall. As a mixed traffic engine there is less competition with the Castle. Also the Modified Hall was recently released in 00 (with a few hiccups admittedly :doh: ) so would be an ideal candidate for a visit through the shrink ray. The obvious competition is the Dapol Hall. Although there are differences between the 2 classes, to the untrained eye, they are very similar locos.
Quote from: newportnobby on June 24, 2014, 10:11:56 AM
. . . I'm not saying the NGF poll necessarily had any effect on the manufacturers, but it does go to show we're all on pretty much the same wavelength. It will be interesting to see the Farish catalogue to see how many more locos are featured from our poll :D
Not forgetting that Arnold are producing the Brighton Belle, which came second in the NGF Poll EMU category :)
I'd like an Electrostar.
Correction. I'd like a couple of dozen of them.
Otherwise I might be forced to backdate my new layout and buy some of those 4CEPs that got mentioned earlier.
OK, something to look forward too......
Jamie
I'd love a 4BEP, or failing that, the buffet car available as a stand-alone to add into an existing 4CEP unit. The best I can do at the moment is use a de-buffered Green RMB with the Bar/Kitchen side visible, but even then there are a few windows in the wrong place... Whether an RU or RBR would be a better substitute is a moot point as BR(SR) didn't have any of those in the 'Green' period.
Hopefully sales of the Hornby/Arnold 'Brighton Belle' units will be sufficient to persuade them to put the 2BIL and 2HAL units in the shrink-ray machine... and do a late Umber and Cream version (3052?).
Quote from: talisman56 on June 24, 2014, 02:56:17 PM
. . . Hopefully sales of the Hornby/Arnold 'Brighton Belle' units will be sufficient to persuade them to put the 2BIL and 2HAL units in the shrink-ray machine... and do a late Umber and Cream version (3052?).
. . . and a Pendolino - five cars will do to start with (just think, if Hornby/Arnold made a Pendolino it would shut me up going on about it :-X)
Quote from: Pengi on June 24, 2014, 03:09:32 PM
(just think, if Hornby/Arnold made a Pendolino it would shut me up going on about it :-X)
But there'd be more pictures than George's Blue Pullman ;)
Quote from: newportnobby on June 24, 2014, 03:23:27 PM
Quote from: Pengi on June 24, 2014, 03:09:32 PM
(just think, if Hornby/Arnold made a Pendolino it would shut me up going on about it :-X)
But there'd be more pictures than George's Blue Pullman ;)
Quite possibly ;) - such a beautiful train. And I'd probably start singing about it too . . .
:whistle: Just one Pendolino, Farish give it to me, a beautiful train, from Italy :whistle:
I have read somewhere or been told that it will only be 3 new items in the catalogue. This is because it runs for a part year and to consolidate the current range (play catch up). What has not been mentioned is if this is locomotives only, plus coaches and wagons or all together. 3 new tools split across everything would I suspect rule out coaches as they come in multiple types.
Quote from: NtasticShop on June 24, 2014, 04:35:38 PM
I have read somewhere or been told that it will only be 3 new items in the catalogue. This is because it runs for a part year and to consolidate the current range (play catch up). What has not been mentioned is if this is locomotives only, plus coaches and wagons or all together. 3 new tools split across everything would I suspect rule out coaches as they come in multiple types.
A fair point Richard.
Nobody has actually said it will be three locos.
I suspect we will see a Class 40 but that is only based on the strength of the general collective "rumour mill".
Regards
Roy
The figure refers to three all-new toolings, however I'm sure they'll be more livery variations offered on existing models.
My predictions for new liveries, some of which have been or will be reproduced in the larger scale:
101 in 2-car blue/grey and 3-car NSE versions
150/1 in Silverlink
47s in Railfreight Petroleum and InterCity swallow
Mk1 FO, BCK, RBR in InterCity swallow with white roofs
Mk2/2a in NSE livery
4F in Somerset & Dorset blue livery for the Collectors' Club
Due to the late release of this year's catalogue I can't see many new releases this time round.
I'm interested on what is announced but i'm amazed that people actually buy the catalogue:)
If only there was an electronic medium where you could see what was coming up, some sort of information sharing structure that creates a network of linked computers, i shall call it the interwebs and make my fortune...
i think we will see the shrink ray applied to the class 40 and a few sundry others and the usual reliveries
Quote from: Zakalwe on June 24, 2014, 07:55:54 PM
I'm interested on what is announced but i'm amazed that people actually buy the catalogue:)
I'd agree with this - all the new information will be posted online (Andy at RMweb is always quick in posting these kind of announcements), which for me at any rate leaves there no need to buy a catalogue...
Cheers,
Alan
IMHO catalogues are somewhat a thing of the past due to the internet.
They have surely been a very good source of income for manufacturers over the years. I'm sure they still produce them because of the good mark-up from what is essentially advertising material!
Back in the day when I was into 00 Triang you needed a catalogue to be in the know...but they were never cheap.
Manufacturers must raise a smile that people still buy catalogues in this internet led age, but will continue to produce them as long as their is demand.
Electrics.. please!
I think the problem with electric loco's not selling is that Farish produce the 87/90/91 and they are all lacking in detail, no lights and not DCC ready. basically 1980/90's tooling. Dapol produced a class 86, cracking model but slow to sell because there was only the 86 and nothing else on a par to run with it.
A lack of catenary may also be a factor in slow sales as there is only Dapol's one type of catenary mast available.
Farish did a brilliant job of the class 85 in OO and it would complement the Dapol 86 nicely.. but I hear whispers that the 85 didn't sell well in OO.. so they are unlikely to rush it through the shrinkray.
A real shame that the UK's longest serving electrified mainline is so underrepresented in model form in N.
Looks like I'll be pinning my colours to the Class 40..
Cheers
Mark
Quote from: trkilliman on June 25, 2014, 11:59:42 AM
IMHO catalogues are somewhat a thing of the past due to the internet.
Tell that to your wife when you drag the tower PC & CRT monitor into bed ...
The Fleischmann catalogue (N + OO ) is available online in various languages , about 90 pages.
Various new models mentioned, don't know if they take ages to reach the shops
Quote from: scruff on June 25, 2014, 12:02:29 PM
I think the problem with electric loco's not selling is that Farish produce the 87/90/91 and they are all lacking in detail, no lights and not DCC ready. basically 1980/90's tooling. Dapol produced a class 86, cracking model but slow to sell because there was only the 86 and nothing else on a par to run with it.
A lack of catenary may also be a factor in slow sales as there is only Dapol's one type of catenary mast available.
I don't see that the 87/90/91 really would great affect sales of the Dapol 86. It seems far more likely that, like it or not, electrics just aren't as popular as other types - the argument seems confirmed by poor sales of electrics in other scales like OO as you mention.
Why might electrics be less popular? I guess it's a potentially a combination of reasons:
- in many cases limited locations of use (e.g. 87s only on WCML, 91s only on ECML etc)
- caternary or lack of (or the difficulty in assembling such in model form)
- are operations of electrics just less interesting? Open question I guess, but many run in fixed rakes or with DVTs (certainly 87,90, 91 and at times the 86s) so there is essentially no loco movements or shunting that they'd do unless on a depot scene, or modelling a terminus, which I guess most of us don't do. Also many locos have one use only - passenger running - I do wonder if the relative proportion of electrics pulling freight reduces interest too.
Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: MikeDunn on June 25, 2014, 12:10:55 PM
Quote from: trkilliman on June 25, 2014, 11:59:42 AM
IMHO catalogues are somewhat a thing of the past due to the internet.
Tell that to your wife when you drag the tower PC & CRT monitor into bed ...
Hi
No need, just use a Tablet.
Cheers
Paul
Edited to clarify Tablet as iPad or ASUS, etc not anything else. :D
Quote from: PaulCheffus on June 25, 2014, 12:23:02 PM
No need, just use a Tablet.
Price of a catalogue - £5 ? Not sure, as I get mine free from the BCC
Price of a decent tablet - £200+ ...
Nuff said ...
Quote from: MikeDunn on June 25, 2014, 12:35:11 PM
Price of a decent tablet - £200+ ...
Nuff said ...
Very much '+'
I recently looked at the price of a 32Gb iPad Mini and it was £460 :o
I said 'decent', not Apple :P
Quote from: Dr Al on June 25, 2014, 12:21:45 PM
I don't see that the 87/90/91 really would great affect sales of the Dapol 86. It seems far more likely that, like it or not, electrics just aren't as popular as other types - the argument seems confirmed by poor sales of electrics in other scales like OO as you mention.
I agree. The Farish electrics may be dated but they are an adequate starting point for detailing. If there really was a went up demand for more OHEL models, I think we would see some signs of it in terms of what people actually model. I can count the number of OHEL layouts on the exhibition circuit on the fingers of one hand. There are some exceptional layouts such as Kinlet Wharf but they are very few and far between.
I realise that detailing RTR is not for everyone but there are some nice examples on here of people who have detailed their steam and diesel locos. I can't remember the last time I saw someone super-detailing an electric loco.
I realise there is some validity to the "critical mass of models" argument but there are limits. If you are willing to do a bit of detailing we have the 86, 87, 90 and 91. We have Mk3 and Mk4 coaches with matching DVTs, we also have some aircon Mk2s of Poole vintage with new ones on the way. We are a bit short of EMUs with just the Desiro to date but there are work-arounds to this. There are plenty of places where Sprinters and other DMUs run beneath the wires.
Sales of the 86s, Desiros and even the 4-CEPs have been slow. I think if there was a big appetite for electric modelling, we would have seen more signs of it by now.
I am not trying to pessimistic here as I actually really like electric prototypes. Before I moved to N gauge I used to model the WCML in 00 gauge (when I had access to my parents' huge loft ;) ). This was back in the days when anyone wanting to model EMUs need to become aquainted with the charms of MTK kits. :o Compared to that, the kits and conversions offered by the like of NTrain and Captain Electra look like a piece of cake.
Quote from: scruff on June 25, 2014, 12:02:29 PM
A real shame that the UK's longest serving electrified mainline is so underrepresented in model form in N.
Cheers
Mark
True, true. Modellers of the Brighton main line (electrified 1932) are in dire need of 6PUL/6PAN/4LAV stock to go with the forthcoming 'Brighton Belle'... :P
Quote from: MikeDunn on June 25, 2014, 12:35:11 PM
Quote from: PaulCheffus on June 25, 2014, 12:23:02 PM
No need, just use a Tablet.
Price of a catalogue - £5 ? Not sure, as I get mine free from the BCC
Price of a decent tablet - £200+ ...
Nuff said ...
Hi
If you already have a tablet then you don't need to buy one just like if you have a PC.
Cheers
Paul
Mr Bachmann,
Please shrink the 00 scale 2Epbs and MLVs to go with the Ceps I have - and to repay me for the Bachmann 00 Ceps I bought to encourage their eventual appearance in N scale. Just askin! And, the Desiro in SouthWestern and Trans-Pennine colours too please.
I must agree that anything S&D would sell and sell, and sell........
Gerry
Quote from: MikeDunn on June 25, 2014, 01:05:08 PM
I said 'decent', not Apple :P
There's a name for people who prefer apples..... "fruit cakes" :P
Quote from: PaulCheffus on June 25, 2014, 04:12:18 PM
If you already have a tablet then you don't need to buy one just like if you have a PC.
Strange as it may seem, there
are those people who do
not own a tablet, and maybe don't
want to ? Ditto about a laptop ...
Or a smartphone, come to that.
Why should
those people be forced into purchasing hardware they have no desire for, simply to be able to view the catalogues ? And let us not forget those people who
prefer the catalogue to be a printed document, Neanderthals though they may be.
Conversely - no-one is forcing
you to go out & buy a catalogue now, are they ? All the manufacturers put the imagery on their websites, after all (with some doing the same to the actual catalogue).
Personally - I am in the latter category of preferring the physical document itself; there is something
much more rewarding, in my view, to relax and peruse a well-printed A4-sized catalogue at leisure instead of peering at a magnified image on a small screen after 10 hours doing
exactly that at work. And yes, I
do own a laptop as well as
two tablets
and a smartphone (not to mention the tower system I built, which is my main system that I am using now).
Mike
(heading off to de-brain a Cro-Magnon who wants to force me into ways I don't personally wish to follow, with a large club; and yes, I
do appreciate the irony in my approach considering my technology)
Hi
I'm not forcing you into anything just pointing out that you don't need to take a PC to bed to surf the internet which you brought up by the way.
Cheers
Paul
Quote from: PaulCheffus on June 25, 2014, 09:15:13 PM
you don't need to take a PC to bed to surf the internet
<sigh> You continue to (deliberately ?) misunderstand ...
Re-read what I said and what I was referring to, in a tongue-in-cheek fashion. The discussion is around catalogues,
not around browsing the internet in general.
Quote from: MikeDunn on June 25, 2014, 09:45:45 PM
Quote from: PaulCheffus on June 25, 2014, 09:15:13 PM
you don't need to take a PC to bed to surf the internet
<sigh> You continue to (deliberately ?) misunderstand ...
Re-read what I said and what I was referring to, in a tongue-in-cheek fashion. The discussion is around catalogues, not around browsing the internet in general.
Hi
Tongue in cheek or not I was merely pointing out that you don't need to take a PC to bed that's all and you have blown it out of all proportion.
This is my final comment on the subject but for what it's worth I do actually agree that a printed catalogue is sometimes better than an electronic copy.
Cheers
Paul
Good grief, guys :goggleeyes:
It's only a discussion about a catalogue, and though we're still (loosely) on topic - how about we get back to letting folks dream about what they'd like to see in it, not what format they'd prefer it in ::)
If a discussion is wanted on hard copy format v tablets etc can I suggest a new thread is started under 'General Discussion'
Sorry Mick,
For reasons best known only to him, Paul seems to have taken my tongue-in-cheek comment about dragging a PC into bed personally, and made some uncalled-for remarks. It's a shame that some people have no sense of humour ... My thanks to those who do, & have used the "thank you" button.
Getting back on-topic, I doubt we will see more than a handful of things we can call 'new'; re-treads are much more likely, in different liveries ... I wonder though, do Woodland Scenics new items qualify as 'new' in the Farish catalogue ???
Mike
I think there could be two possibilities with Scenecraft buildings:
1. The rest of the Sheffield Park station buildings appear (the waiting room's already available ref.: 42-087)
2. A range of Settle & Carlisle line structures to celebrate the 25th anniversary reprieve of the line in 1989, as Aisgill signal box appears in the forthcoming Cumbrian Mountain Express train pack.
Maybe a model of Ribblehead viaduct or Dent station for starters ...
Quote from: newportnobby on June 25, 2014, 09:55:57 PM
Good grief, guys :goggleeyes:
It's only a discussion about a catalogue, and though we're still (loosely) on topic - how about we get back to letting folks dream about what they'd like to see in it, not what format they'd prefer it in ::)
If a discussion is wanted on hard copy format v tablets etc can I suggest a new thread is started under 'General Discussion'
Another riot in Toytown , Gawd 'elp us!
Quote from: talisman56 on June 25, 2014, 02:03:08 PM
Quote from: scruff on June 25, 2014, 12:02:29 PM
A real shame that the UK's longest serving electrified mainline is so underrepresented in model form in N.
Cheers
Mark
True, true. Modellers of the Brighton main line (electrified 1932) are in dire need of 6PUL/6PAN/4LAV stock to go with the forthcoming 'Brighton Belle'... :P
Not that electricity. The other, good kind.
Jim
Quote from: Karhedron on June 25, 2014, 01:46:45 PM
I can't remember the last time I saw someone super-detailing an electric loco.
There's this, that ran for a fair while on RMWeb:http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/74222-farish-class-90-upgrade-with-ph-designs-detail-parts/ (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/74222-farish-class-90-upgrade-with-ph-designs-detail-parts/)
Jim
Amongst the locos I would put my money on a Colas 70 appearing soon.
Geoff
A NEW catalogue?
Its only a couple of weeks since Bachmann gave me a copy of the current one.... (perhaps they wanted to dump the ones they'd not been able to sell :)
Seriously, I can't see an LMS Flying Pig- I'm not convinced the other 4MT 2-6-0 has sold well enough and there are more of these with locking issues than any of the other tender-driven locos (more to become stiff and less weight to keep it honest).
An outsider might be a Stanier 8F in two scales- it would have a ready-prepared mechanism from the WD, but is there enough of a market for a new 2-8-0?
Others have said the Crab- which has its attractions (and much of the tender already re-tooled?). Similarly a Midlend/LMS Compound could be ready for the shrink-ray.
If there are to be two new locos in the three new items I'd go for a Class 40 and either a Compound or a Crab- but I'm not in the market for any of these.
How about LMS Porthole coaches as they are a recent OO item?
Just a few thoughts
Les
Hoping my wallet will get a rest after the A2......
did'nt they scan the Q6 at Grosmont a couple of years ago ?
and nothing came of it ....
alan
I'd like a Fell but I wont hold my breath
Quote from: Les1952 on July 07, 2014, 08:10:21 PM
A NEW catalogue?
Seriously, I can't see an LMS Flying Pig- I'm not convinced the other 4MT 2-6-0 has sold well enough and there are more of these with locking issues than any of the other tender-driven locos (more to become stiff and less weight to keep it honest).
Others have said the Crab- which has its attractions (and much of the tender already re-tooled?). Similarly a Midlend/LMS Compound could be ready for the shrink-ray.
If there are to be two new locos in the three new items I'd go for a Class 40 and either a Compound or a Crab- but I'm not in the market for any of these.
How about LMS Porthole coaches as they are a recent OO item?
Just a few thoughts
Les
Hoping my wallet will get a rest after the A2......
Hi Les
I am not sure the Standard 4MT Moguls sold that badly - try and find one now, especially with the small tender! Plus there is another production run planned. It does seem more prone to "lock-ups" than other tender driven locos as you say, but were a "Flying Pig" to appear I would expect it to be loco-driven and much more akin to it's little sister, the Ivatt 2-6-0 than the 4MT.
I would love to see "Porthole" coaches but I suspect for a market the size of British N it is unlikely Farish will do two LMS types. That said I would
prefer to see Thompsons (Please?!).
In some ways I am hoping that my wallet is spared further pain (I have just a Fowler 0-6-0 and A2 on pre-order now) but on the other hand, I do like to have new models to look forward to as well!
All the above said we are talking "only" three newly tooled items so unless it
is three coach types my money remains on a Class 40, plus one steam, probably a "Crab".
Not long now till we find out. Wouldn't it be a dampener if in fact all it turns out to be is some "Scalescenes" buildings, cars or people!
Regards
Roy
Quote from: Only Me on July 08, 2014, 08:51:54 AM
Look out for the RailCar re-run with lights and DCC ready..
GW Railcar?? Yep forgotten that one, the old one is not listed any more so that's a pretty good call I'd say.
Roy
Ok, with a bit of thought, I've come up with this list.
Steam
9F
Crab
King
Diesel
10000/10001
43 warship
40
Others
A new southern EMU
Re tooled 158
Cheers
Dave
Hi Dave
Hope you had a good holiday (assume you are back home now???).
Everything on your list looks quite logical but it is interesting that you have included a 9F? I know the Dapol one is by modern standards getting a little bit long in the tooth now, but they are still being released so presumably still selling. Do you think Farish would now take the risk and try to eclipse it with an all singing and dancing coreless motor loco drive model? I would love to see it.
Regards
Roy
Hi Roy,
I think it's always rankled that the 9F was lost to them, and I think that with the passing of time etc, they have developed models that now make a powerful, smooth running 9F with more fidelity etc a probability rather than a possibility.
So yes, I think it's on the cards ( but can and no doubt will be proved wrong!) :laugh3:
Yes, got back to Blighty last night.
Cheers
Dave
We have heard the "3 items" rumour being mentioned in a few places. I am assuming that it means 3 powered items and it not counting stuff like coaches and wagons (if it is just 3 items overall that would be a very thin catalogue :ouch: ).
I am going to put my money down as being one steamer, one diesel and one MU so I will plump for:
Class 40
LMS 1000 compound
158
The class 40 is one of the obvious outstanding diesels to modern standards. While a class 43 is not out of the question, my guess is it will appear in OO first and migrate to N gauge later. The LMS 1000 would be a shrink down of the OO one, it would sit nicely with the rest of the LMS range while making good use of their new coreless motor. The 158 is a popular prototype but the current 00 gauge and N gauge models are both pretty long in the tooth. A new one to modern standards with all the DCC bells and whistles would probably be a solid investment.
I will put my crystal ball away now and stick to what I am best at. :pint:
It would be nice to see some resprays / different liveries of existing locomotives such as the class 60 (let's have a different EWS number or a silver DBS 60099)???
And let's hope for some differnt 47 liveries like a colas one.
If they do release a new design I would like to see a class 172 in London Midland or a Pendolino in Virgin.
Either way we are on countdown till the 20th!!
Just a thought, what about a shiny new 94xx Pannier?
It was Farish's first N Gauge loco back in 1970 and an "Ever present" in the Farish range right up until recently. Who wouldn't find room for one of those??
Roy
Quote from: Roy L S on July 09, 2014, 07:27:51 PM
Just a thought, what about a shiny new 94xx Pannier?
It was Farish's first N Gauge loco back in 1970 and an "Ever present" in the Farish range right up until recently. Who wouldn't find room for one of those??
Roy
Is it already a fairly recent model in the Bachmann OO range?
My money is on one loco, one rolling stock item (more likely a wagon) and something lineside.
Les
Quote from: Les1952 on July 09, 2014, 08:18:19 PM
Quote from: Roy L S on July 09, 2014, 07:27:51 PM
Just a thought, what about a shiny new 94xx Pannier?
It was Farish's first N Gauge loco back in 1970 and an "Ever present" in the Farish range right up until recently. Who wouldn't find room for one of those??
Roy
Is it already a fairly recent model in the Bachmann OO range?
No, but then nor was the Black Five, and who is to say we couldn't see a 94xx on 00 too, no other manufacturer has done one since Lima in the late 70's.
Regards
Roy
Quote from: Roy L S on July 09, 2014, 08:39:34 PM
No, but then nor was the Black Five, and who is to say we couldn't see a 94xx on 00 too, no other manufacturer has done one since Lima in the late 70's.
I wonder if the Black 5 was a deliberate exception as it will always be a popular prototype (with presumably fairly bouyant sales that would be lost if a competitor had jumped in), and they had a suitable tender drive already available at the time.
Cheers,
Alan
After Dapol nabbed the 5700/8750 Panniers, Farish switched to the 6400 auto-panniers. I would be suprised to see them announced another GWR Pannier so quickly.
As always, happy to be proved wrong if it means more GWR. ;)
Quote from: Karhedron on July 10, 2014, 09:21:29 AM
After Dapol nabbed the 5700/8750 Panniers, Farish switched to the 6400 auto-panniers. I would be suprised to see them announced another GWR Pannier so quickly.
As always, happy to be proved wrong if it means more GWR. ;)
It was a thought based on the longevity of the original Farish loco through it's various incarnations and re-tools to the very last with the finer blackened wheels post Bachmann takeover.
Following the introduction of the 57xx Farish always had both Panniers in their range and seemingly both sold well. It is a nice looking loco and likely to be possible to sell it DCC ready at a sensible price-point in today's market.
Anyway nuff said, I am probably miles off with all my predictions, and while I would definitely find a home for one (to go with my 1970 original) I would much prefer it to be an LNER tank loco in truth (Equally unlikely?)..
Regards
Roy
Guys
On my wishlist is an Intercity Swallow livery class 37 and OTA wagons.
I am not sure which OO locos and wagons have not been produced in N but I think we will see some of these in the new range both steam and diesel.
And as ever the range of buildings will be expanded.
Regards
Dave
come on guys you know its a set of Thompson coach's to go with th NGS full brake - is'nt that why they hung on to it ?
alan
I rather doubt that a catalogue will arrive on time anyway and if it does will be a reprint of 2013/14 with a different cover, there are so many still not released from there that they can milk it for a second year.
Farish could do worse than re release some of the older models that have all sold out for those of us newbies who want a discontinued model and cannot get one. Example I am searching for a 371-286 Class 47 but none to be found not even on Fleebay.
And while I am here Dapol are no better at new releases, but are at least announcing a re run of HST FGW,
Quote from: georgehgv on July 14, 2014, 06:43:31 AM
Farish could do worse than re release some of the older models that have all sold out for those of us newbies who want a discontinued model and cannot get one. Example I am searching for a 371-286 Class 47 but none to be found not even on Fleebay.
Did you mean 371-226 FGW (Green) or 371-826 BR Green (The ones with the large bogie-body gap)?
Regards
Tony
Quote from: Only Me on July 09, 2014, 08:21:33 PM
My money is firmly on a shrunken LMS 10000 in black and also green livery..
Now yer talkin' :thumbsup:
Quote from: carderrail on July 14, 2014, 07:09:12 AM
Quote from: georgehgv on July 14, 2014, 06:43:31 AM
Farish could do worse than re release some of the older models that have all sold out for those of us newbies who want a discontinued model and cannot get one. Example I am searching for a 371-286 Class 47 but none to be found not even on Fleebay.
Did you mean 371-226 FGW (Green) or 371-826 BR Green (The ones with the large bogie-body gap)?
Regards
Tony
duh, typo the 371-826 BR Green to go with my 371-825a. thanks.
Quote from: georgehgv on July 14, 2014, 06:43:31 AM
I rather doubt that a catalogue will arrive on time anyway and if it does will be a reprint of 2013/14 with a different cover, there are so many still not released from there that they can milk it for a second year.
Farish could do worse than re release some of the older models that have all sold out for those of us newbies who want a discontinued model and cannot get one. Example I am searching for a 371-286 Class 47 but none to be found not even on Fleebay.
And while I am here Dapol are no better at new releases, but are at least announcing a re run of HST FGW,
Agreed BR two-tone green 47s are really hard to find, and I understand the reasoning for suggesting further runs of such popular liveries (and who knows we may see them) but re-runs still require production slots and capacity at the factory to do them and arguably that would hold up new releases (like the Class 40?!) even more.
Incidentally I don't think my BR Green 47 (D1745) without the BR logo - (the most recent two tone green one) has an excessive bogie/body gap. I believe it was tightened up after the first run.
Regards
Roy
Quote from: mr bachmann on July 13, 2014, 08:00:01 PM
come on guys you know its a set of Thompson coach's to go with th NGS full brake - is'nt that why they hung on to it ?
Actually, that would seem likely. They have a 2 large LNER pacifics now but all their locos sales will only be driving sales of Dapol's Gresleys. With the A2 due around the start of Q3, they might go for them.
Anyone thought about some updated class 20's? the /3 and /9 variants in use would be popular I would think...
I'd like a BRT livery class 20
woOO , you all must be getting exited !
try and think how hard it must be to keep tight lipped , staff at barwell , printer , publisher - not forgetting pillow talk (.... :help:....) :D
alan
Pillow talk ? Not that exciting it is only a catalogue full of maybes, somewhens and hopes
Quote from: georgehgv on July 16, 2014, 02:48:02 PM
Pillow talk ? Not that exciting it is only a catalogue full of maybes, somewhens and hopes
To be fair, as has been mentioned previously they have thus far only withdrawn a few planned models and then for sensible reasons of duplication when Dapol have sneaked in and got models like the Ivatt Tank, 9F and Pannier out first.
Otherwise everything does tend to get delivered eventually...
Regards
Roy
Quote from: georgehgv on July 16, 2014, 02:48:02 PM
maybes, somewhens and hopes
Sounds exactly like pillow talk to me.... :heart2: :-[
In amongst all the froth are we forgetting the following-
Graham Hubbard said (and this has been confirmed by RMWeb's andy Y, Railway Modeller and MRE Mag's rep at least)
THREE new tooling items in OO and three new tooling items in N.
This could be a wagon, a building and a new set of figures.........
Les
how many more go to sleeps is it now?????
:Class91:
Quote from: georgehgv on July 16, 2014, 02:48:02 PM
Pillow talk ? Not that exciting it is only full of maybes, somewhens and hopes
''what you been doing at work to-day love?'' - ''well if your lips are closed - i'll show you what I can close !''
alan :hmmm:
Quote from: Les1952 on July 16, 2014, 07:20:01 PM
In amongst all the froth are we forgetting the following-
Graham Hubbard said (and this has been confirmed by RMWeb's andy Y, Railway Modeller and MRE Mag's rep at least)
THREE new tooling items in OO and three new tooling items in N.
This could be a wagon, a building and a new set of figures.........
Les
Very true, but it would be a bit of a poor show given the fuss about it being an anniversary year...
Will the catalogue come out on time, I wonder? :hmmm:
Quote from: newportnobby on July 16, 2014, 09:57:03 PM
Will the catalogue come out on time, I wonder? :hmmm:
The catalogue seems to be the one thing that is always ready when promised; even if the items within are either not yet available or sold out ;)
That is so true!!
Cheers
Mark
As someone has already mentioned, I would be extremely happy with a retooled 94xx - :bounce:
Barry
My guess is that a shrunken class 40 is a racing certainty. Thompson coaches look like a good bet too. I'm not sure what the third new tooling will be, but from various hints floating around I'm also guessing that there will be new model(s) available almost immediately. LMS twins perhaps?
Cheers
Dave
optimism mode on....
It's their anniversary, something new and cool must be almost ready for release
optimism mode off
Having had few carrots about what they are supposed to be doing in OO waved in front of me the N gauge releases could literally be anything! Im not really sure if theres a dead cert for sunday! of course I might be completely wrong!
Richard
Quote from: B757-236GT on July 17, 2014, 09:53:38 PM
Having had few carrots about what they are supposed to be doing in OO waved in front of me the N gauge releases could literally be anything! Im not really sure if theres a dead cert for sunday! of course I might be completely wrong!
Richard
Agreed... that's why I said racing cert. Maybe I'm about to loose my shirt again :)
Cheers
Dave
I agree, it is impossible to call (but it is great fun to guess).
A re-tooled Peak seems like a good bet - popular class with lots of possible variants and seen across much of the network.
There are a vast number of possibilities for a new steam locomotive. Looking at last year's catalogue there are plenty of LMS, LNER and BR Standard classes but not much Southern or GWR. If it were my choice I'd be looking at something that would sit between the 64xx Pannier and the Castle class. Dapol pretty much has the GWR 4-6-0 sewn up with the Grange, Manor and Hall, there might be a market for a Graham Farish Modified Hall Class (I know I'd buy one) and Bachman has a OO gauge modified Hall that could be scaled down. But I think a re-tooled large Prarie such as the 61xx has more sales potential and would be a better fit with the other GWR outline models that have been announced (both from Farish and from Dapol). Or, as an outside bet, maybe Graham Farish will do a GWR 43xx 2-6-0, which would be a nice follow up to the Ivatt 2MT 2-6-0 and Southern N class 2-6-0s.
If a new Southern steam locomotive is planned I wonder if Bachmann would scale down the E4 tank engine? To my mind it looks like a nice fit with the other Southern models that are in the pipeline (admittedly Southern stuff isn't my area of expertise).
There are other possibilities which people have suggested, such as an updated LMS Crab or 8F which I wouldn't rule out either. But given the enduring popularity of the GWR/Western Region I think I'd want to have more than two GWR models in the Graham Farish catalogue if I were calling the shots at Barwell.
How do you actually find out what's announced on Sunday?
Just on their website???
Tim
Thats what they normally do. Its normally around mid day. Rmweb will also probably have it around then.
Richard
Quote from: johnlambert on July 18, 2014, 07:47:52 AM
But given the enduring popularity of the GWR/Western Region I think I'd want to have more than two GWR models in the Graham Farish catalogue if I were calling the shots at Barwell.
Whilst I wholeheartedly agree, I think we need to remember that we are still waiting for the 64xx, Castle, Hawksworth coaches and auto-trailer from last years' announcements. We have not even seen any EPs yet so my guess is they won't be in any hurry to add more GWR stuff to the queue while the announced stuff is still so far off. :'(
Having said that, now that they can fit coreless motors into small spaces, maybe we will finally see City of Truro in N gauge. :angel:
My money is still on the Class 40 as a near cert.
Assuming all three items are newly tooled locos, I would still then add a Crab and lastly an LNER tank loco.
Roy
With you on the class 40.
I have a strong hunch the LMS 1000 will be done too.
That is a steam and a diesel so I will plump for a Derby Lightweight DMU as my 3rd guess. We should know in just over 48 hours. :laugh:
A Derby Lightweight would be nice but the reason I don't think we will see a DMU is because they seem to have suffered most from the recent price hikes due to complexity of assembly and would retail comparatively expensively against simpler diesel or steam designs.
The Compound is an interesting thought, but I would have thought something more universal like the Crab which survived longer and offers more livery options more likely.
As you say, circa 48 hours and we will know and either be very happy bunnies indeed or otherwise feel our wallets breathe a huge sigh of relief!
Regards
Roy
I've said it before, and i'll say it again....
S&D 7F Please.... :admiration: (this is as close to a begging smiley we got !)
OK, the decision on sundays anouncement was probably made long ago - but I can still dream.......
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee442/djmikeymike2011/DSC00717_zps39ad6b1a.jpg) (http://s1228.photobucket.com/user/djmikeymike2011/media/DSC00717_zps39ad6b1a.jpg.html)
Holden Tank anyone??
I think a retooled peak is very unlikely. They might look at a sealed beam variant but i doubt there will be any retooling there.
I could see the 40 being a possibility but im not sure its certain enough this year but it will obviously come along. Im also not sure about the 10000 as it wasnt a great seller in OO and lets face it theres only a few liveries available but its possible someone might do it as a sponsored ltd ed.
For me i can see the polybulks which have been very popular in OO (try finding one) and i think possibly the MLV as the recent pair of releases have sold very well. I also wonder whether we might see a 105 or derby lightweight as they obviously have the OO gauge moulds. I think the former has a chance but the later i think unlikely. The only other thing i can think of they already do thats possible is the 85 which seems to have picked up a little again recently.
In terms of any new items id be interested to see if a class 09 is possible or possibly the 115-118 dmu family. Apart from that i can only think of the electric types as there really isnt much left that isnt already bagged or released already.
Richard
what ever they give picture's for , lets hope it comes ready fitted , so we can plonk and play
alan
Quote from: mr bachmann on July 18, 2014, 02:18:19 PM
what ever they give picture's for , lets hope it comes ready fitted , so we can plonk and play
alan
I would doubt that.
A few selected sets aside none of BachFarish's N Gauge range have ever come DCC fitted and personally I can't see them wanting to add the cost of a decoder onto the price in the current environment.
Anything new being DCC
ready with a six pin socket I would 100% agree with but I think they will leave actually fitting chips for the purchaser (If they want it).
Regards
Roy
Quote from: B757-236GT on July 18, 2014, 02:13:31 PM
I think a retooled peak is very unlikely. They might look at a sealed beam variant but i doubt there will be any retooling there.
I could see the 40 being a possibility but im not sure its certain enough this year but it will obviously come along. Im also not sure about the 10000 as it wasnt a great seller in OO and lets face it theres only a few liveries available but its possible someone might do it as a sponsored ltd ed.
For me i can see the polybulks which have been very popular in OO (try finding one) and i think possibly the MLV as the recent pair of releases have sold very well. I also wonder whether we might see a 105 or derby lightweight as they obviously have the OO gauge moulds. I think the former has a chance but the later i think unlikely. The only other thing i can think of they already do thats possible is the 85 which seems to have picked up a little again recently.
In terms of any new items id be interested to see if a class 09 is possible or possibly the 115-118 dmu family. Apart from that i can only think of the electric types as there really isnt much left that isnt already bagged or released already.
Richard
Agreed re: the "Peak" it is a comparatively new model already albeit not DCC ready or with lights.
Possibly Polybulks as a rolling stock item but I doubt the market for a MLV in N would make it viable as a RTR item.
Similarly I doubt we will see another newly tooled DMU just yet but we might see some more green 101s (they seemed to sell out very quickly).
Of all the overhead electrics the only one I would personally give any chance of appearing is the 85 but even then it is a slim chance.
You don't mention any steam locos Richard? I would think at least one of the new releases will be steam.
Regards
Roy
I think DCC in N is still quite small although it is growing. I suspect if they did offer dcc fitted all they would get is complaints from those who dont want to shell out extra for a chip they dont want/need. Also i know from OO alot of people when they buy chipped fitted will have their preferred chip and tend to change them over. I suspect eventually they will start offering it but i would be surprised if its within 3-4 years.
In reply to Roy, im afraid im not up on my steamers so cant really comment on those.
Richard
Quote from: Arrachogaidh on July 18, 2014, 01:46:05 PM
I think they will goo for something iconic looking back to the early releases from Poole.
Maybe
(http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/Caledonian/DiningCarExpress.jpg)
A Caly Cardean; if only...
Still, it's an inside cylinder loco - perhaps Union Mills might do it?
And I'd be happy to see it in front of the old generic Farish coaches which were released in Caledonian livery.
The polybulks already been announced and we've seen EPs - due Oct/Nov according to the Farish website.
I can't see the Peaks being re-tooled either as it was one of the first "recent" toolings. A new 40 is more likely given the work they've done on the 4mm version.
I think an EPB would be smarter and more use than an MLV, but I'm not sure they will chance it unfortunately.
Cheers, Mike
Yep missed the polybulks :dunce: . The trouble with the EPBs is they havent sold that well given how many blue and blue/grey ones have been offered on discount. Portishead had 60 of each of the OO on offer a year or so back. The MLV might do ok because you dont technically need 3rd rail for one and there are plenty of liveries.
One id like to add is the humble 09 with high level pipes option, very simple to do and probably a good chance of being a good seller. Quite a few liveries too.
Richard
I wish they would just produce some more of the recent stuff which sold out and we can no longer get.
Quote from: mr bachmann on July 18, 2014, 02:18:19 PM
what ever they give picture's for , lets hope it comes ready fitted , so we can plonk and play
alan
Somewhat selfish, thinks I :scowl:
Not all of us run digital and at least if it's DCC ready you have the choice of chip as has been said above. I can't see any of the major manufacturers going down the DCC fitted only route :no: (they'd better not!)
Quote from: B757-236GT on July 18, 2014, 02:13:31 PM
For me i can see the polybulks which have been very popular in OO (try finding one) and i think possibly the MLV as the recent pair of releases have sold very well.
Hi
The Polybulks were announced last year and are showing as due Oct/Nov on the Farish website.
Cheers
Paul
Quote from: johnlambert on July 18, 2014, 07:47:52 AM
If a new Southern steam locomotive is planned I wonder if Bachmann would scale down the E4 tank engine? To my mind it looks like a nice fit with the other Southern models that are in the pipeline (admittedly Southern stuff isn't my area of expertise).
Yes! I'd so go for an E4... :) :drool:
Re: Comment above about new "Peaks," I would be astounded if there were any additions or changes to the Peaks and I would actually be disappointed if there were at the expense of something all new.
Bachmann announced what their next 44, 45, and 46 variants were going to be in their LAST cataloge, and apart from all of them being weathered and all having a much higher price than before, they are unchanged from previous releases. I personally don't expect there will be any changes to the Peaks for at least 5 years, and likely more. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the Peaks are dropped completely after the run of weathered models announced last year is done as their dinosaur chassis no longer shares any components with other models.
Matt
Id like to see them do some sealed beam varients first but I suspect we could be waiting a long time. Even having the mould in OO they haven't ever released the sealed beam in there.
I do know they looked at doing the 304/305/308 family in OO so really anything is possible.
Richard
Quote from: Karhedron on July 18, 2014, 09:17:13 AM
Having said that, now that they can fit coreless motors into small spaces, maybe we will finally see City of Truro in N gauge. :angel:
That would be very nice :thumbsup:
http://www.bachmannindustriesinc.com/pdf/NMRA_2014.pdf (http://www.bachmannindustriesinc.com/pdf/NMRA_2014.pdf)
just a teaser , new stuff for the US market , nice lots of dcc fitted and anologe compatible , the Berkshire is on my list ....
alan
Hi
I shall be slightly annoyed if they announce one of these tomorrow.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=14120)
Cheers
Paul
Quote from: PaulCheffus on July 19, 2014, 08:17:14 PM
Hi
I shall be slightly annoyed if they announce one of these tomorrow.
Cheers
Paul
If you have just finished building them, hen I would say that it is inevitable they will be. Don't paint them yet then you might be ok! That's why my colas team haven't got transfers on them yet!
Alistair
At least some stuff announced as of 20/07/2014:
http://www.bachmann.co.uk/details.php?id=189 (http://www.bachmann.co.uk/details.php?id=189)
"Graham Farish cements its position at the forefront of British N scale with the arrival of the N Class steam locomotive newly adorned in SECR Dark Grey livery and the replicating of the SECR Birdcage coaching stock previously introduced in OO. These introductions allow an authentic representation of a pre-grouping train, further expanding possibilities for the N scale modeller."
http://www.bachmann.co.uk/details.php?id=187 (http://www.bachmann.co.uk/details.php?id=187)
In N scale, we see the introduction of the power station collection, an industrial staple perfect for completing lineside scenes. A static caravan and low relief power signal box along with a host of new low relief shops and businesses complete our new announcements for the Scenecraft range.
Cheers, NeMo
A very minimal attempt at an announcement after all the hype recently, rather pathetic actually!!
Best wishes, a rather disappointed Simon
Maybe, but i like the sound of that low relief stuff!
Hi all
Tank NSE yes NSE MK2a's a class 47 and a 101 :NGF:
Well happy with this :)
All the best Darren NSE DAZ
The biggest issue for me is the inflexibility of the birdcage stock apparently only being sold in packs of 3 for each livery. Were there really that many brakes when trains consisted of more than 3 coaches?
Mike
The three new tool items are a set of SECR 60' Wainwright design Birdcage carriages, sold as a pack of three, as they ran most of their lives as fixed sets:
BT (8 compt)
C
BT (7 compt + lavatory)
Built 1912-15, withdrawn by 1957-58, but odd brake 3rds survived as departmental carriages for longer.
The Bluebell has the sole survivor http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/1170.html (http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/1170.html)
Worked primarily on ex-SECR lines (including as far as Reading via Guildford) but could be seen widely on non-electrified lines in the Central and Eastern Sections.
They didn't work on the Isle of Wight - the 54' versions were transferred over there 1948-49.
They were hauled by any suitable SR loco plus Fairburn and BR Standard locos.
Other good news include the revival of the GWR railcars as DCC ready.
I also welcome the introduction of the 101 in NSE livery - the two-car sets worked in the London area on branch line services to Greenford, Marlow, Slough and Henley-on Thames, the Oxford-Bicester/Banbury lines, Gospel Oak-Barking, Colchester-Sudbury and Cambridge-Kings Lynn lines.
One 2-car unit (L836) wandered around:
East Anglia https://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisboon/4288360387/in/pool-nse-dmus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisboon/4288360387/in/pool-nse-dmus)
Nottingham: https://www.flickr.com/photos/railwaydave/4200046130/in/gallery-31074376@N06-72157623357056711/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/railwaydave/4200046130/in/gallery-31074376@N06-72157623357056711/)
RTR Pre Grouping coaching stock. Who would have thought that a few years ago? Pity I've built so many etched SECR coaches!
Gareth
Quote from: NSE DAZ on July 20, 2014, 09:12:05 AM
Hi all
Tank NSE yes NSE MK2a's a class 47 and a 101 :NGF:
Well happy with this :)
All the best Darren NSE DAZ
Ooooo, I'm gonna be poor! :veryangry:
It's nice to look forward to re-issues of basic staple products like a blue 47, blue and grey Mk 2a and VBAs.
Shame about the lack of class 40! bit of a let down...
I shall be buying the railfreight class 20 and maybe nse 47 with some nse coaches
no other rolling stock for me though
Tim
Quote from: gc4946 on July 20, 2014, 09:46:58 AM
I also welcome the introduction of the 101 in NSE livery - the two-car sets worked in the London area on branch line services to Greenford, Marlow, Slough and Henley-on Thames, the Oxford-Bicester/Banbury lines, Gospel Oak-Barking, Colchester-Sudbury and Cambridge-Kings Lynn lines.
One 2-car unit (L836) wandered around:
East Anglia https://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisboon/4288360387/in/pool-nse-dmus (https://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisboon/4288360387/in/pool-nse-dmus)
Nottingham: https://www.flickr.com/photos/railwaydave/4200046130/in/gallery-31074376@N06-72157623357056711/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/railwaydave/4200046130/in/gallery-31074376@N06-72157623357056711/)
Farish's photo shows a NSE power-trailer unit, however L836 was a power twin. Will await clarification on the exact version.
I'm also pleased they're re-running a blue/grey 108, they've been very hard to get hold of lately.
Also a new version of the class 171 Southern DMU for the same reasons.
Looks like the GC signalbox is now being released in N, 6 months after I had 2 sets of etches commissioned for the same thing!!
Also hopefully the GC water tower will now be available too.
Chris
Looks like a relatively cheap year for me. Nothing of interest from Farish or Dapol so it looks like Dave Jones will be getting loco budget this year.
I'm gutted that there's no Class 40.
Cheers
Dave
Quote from: NeMo on July 20, 2014, 09:07:00 AM
At least some stuff announced as of 20/07/2014:
http://www.bachmann.co.uk/details.php?id=189 (http://www.bachmann.co.uk/details.php?id=189)
"Graham Farish cements its position at the forefront of British N scale with the arrival of the N Class steam locomotive newly adorned in SECR Dark Grey livery and the replicating of the SECR Birdcage coaching stock previously introduced in OO. These introductions allow an authentic representation of a pre-grouping train, further expanding possibilities for the N scale modeller."
SECR Birdcage stock? [adopts Mr Burns voice] Excellent [/Burns voice] :D :bounce:
Not sure about the SECR liveried version, but the SR Olive and BR Vermillion [
sic] I'll be interested in.
The only thing now is
when...
Two new running numbers on wagons the sum total of post-2000 offerings. Not ground breaking! Oh well.
Quote from: msr on July 20, 2014, 09:45:35 AM
The biggest issue for me is the inflexibility of the birdcage stock apparently only being sold in packs of 3 for each livery. Were there really that many brakes when trains consisted of more than 3 coaches?
Mike
As they ran in fixed sets, yes. You probably would only find a maximum of two of these sets in a train, as these were primarily local or short distance sets. For more long-distance trains there were longer sets.
I welcome the retailing of the Birdcage stock in set packs, at least now one can get enough brake vehicles for one's train (unlike with the Bulleids...)
My wallet has breathed a huge sigh of relief. Nothing there I want :sweat:
Feeling a bit disappointed. Not so much with what was announced as how it has been announced.
Three new tooling items = the Birdcage coaches; fair enough. But not quite the wow factor that I was expecting, given the build up by delaying the announcement until July.
It would also have been nice to have a summary of all the new items listed in the new product announcement.
Interesting to see a couple of additional liveries for the LMS Coronation Pacifics, seems a bit cheeky adding new versions of a model that isn't on sale yet (same goes for the N class).
Nice to see some Network South East items. I might be tempted to buy a class 101 NSE...
Quote from: Bealman on July 20, 2014, 09:11:34 AM
Maybe, but i like the sound of that low relief stuff!
The trouble with the scenecraft stuff are the prices, rrp of £19.95 for a static caravan seems way too much esp if you want a small park with several!!
That is the trouble in N you need lots of buildings/structures to fill the space and although I do think some of these are great little models, the cost soon adds up!! Think I wil stick to scalescenes and scratchbuilding!
Best wishes
Simon
It would also have been nice to have a summary of all the new items listed in the new product announcement.
Have a look here, sorry to link to another forum guys -
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87704-graham-farish-n-announcements-july-2014-secr-birdcage-stock-and-some-monster-scenecraft/ (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87704-graham-farish-n-announcements-july-2014-secr-birdcage-stock-and-some-monster-scenecraft/)
Best wishes
Simon
Bit of a joke on the build up to this announcement! Looks like they are playing catch up this year for all unreleased previous items instead.
Oh well at least it's easy street on the wallet, however I think Farish have missed the trick with different liveries of existing models.
Any new figures announced in scenecraft?
I was kind of hoping there'd be some more pre Grouping locos and coaches, some GC or Midland stuff maybe. Things that maybe go well with the Scenecraft buildings.
Maybe next year?
Chris
Quote from: Wingman mothergoose on July 20, 2014, 11:38:15 AM
I was kind of hoping there'd be some more pre Grouping locos and coaches, some GC or Midland stuff maybe. Things that maybe go well with the Scenecraft buildings.
Maybe next year?
Chris
Well it is only a short wait until the 2015 catalogue, I think. Should be due in March 2015, although with all the items still in the pipeline maybe we won't see many new items until production has caught up with what has been promised so far...
I don't get why they are doing new 158's, unless that is telling us that we aren't getting a retooled one for a while!
Sorry for double post/sounding like a moron, what's a Dynamis Ultima DCC System?
The City of Bradford Princess Coronation in black looks nice.
Not a whole lot, but there are still lots from last year still to be released.
Quote from: Danfilm007 on July 20, 2014, 12:05:12 PM
Sorry for double post/sounding like a moron, what's a Dynamis Ultima DCC System?
The original Dynamis was discontinued because some of the components were no longer available. Bachmann thought about axing it altogether but have apparently decided to have it redesigned.
Quote from: Ian Morton on July 20, 2014, 12:31:18 PM
Quote from: Danfilm007 on July 20, 2014, 12:05:12 PM
Sorry for double post/sounding like a moron, what's a Dynamis Ultima DCC System?
The original Dynamis was discontinued because some of the components were no longer available. Bachmann thought about axing it altogether but have apparently decided to have it redesigned.
Ahh, that answers my question! :thankyousign:
I believe the Dynamis Ultima will be like the standard ESU unit which is available in the US called the Navigator as is effectively the UK dynamis and pro box together.
Quite happy as theres very little id be tempted with but some of the buildings look good value!
Richard
Quote from: bridgiesimon on July 20, 2014, 11:10:11 AM
It would also have been nice to have a summary of all the new items listed in the new product announcement.
Have a look here, sorry to link to another forum guys -
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87704-graham-farish-n-announcements-july-2014-secr-birdcage-stock-and-some-monster-scenecraft/ (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87704-graham-farish-n-announcements-july-2014-secr-birdcage-stock-and-some-monster-scenecraft/)
Best wishes
Simon
Shouldn't all these new announcements be on their own website rather than on a third party forum at least half the modelling community probably don't use? (me for one!) There's very little on the Bachmann website from what I can see :hmmm:
Paul
I think their intention is to announce a couple of things at a time on their website. If you look at the online catalogue it's all in there...
Is the Merchant Navy and Railcar new tooling or are they just re releases of old stuff?
Quote from: gc4946 on July 20, 2014, 10:13:25 AM
Also a new version of the class 171 Southern DMU for the same reasons.
I too am pleased to see this make a return - in 00 as well as N. Different running number from the first release is a good thing also. Pity the four-car is not being produced however...
Quote from: Danfilm007 on July 20, 2014, 12:59:14 PM
Is the Merchant Navy and Railcar new tooling or are they just re releases of old stuff?
Merchant Navy was announced in last year's catalogue; so it is new tooling and not a re-issue of the Poole model.
I guess the railcar is the old model since it hasn't been specifically mentioned as a new model. But the chassis must be new/modified if it comes with a DCC socket.
Nothing to get excited about, really. No class 40 or Colas 70, as everyone was predicting - just some SECR coaches. I guess the Chinese labour problems
NSE Mk2a coaches will be welcomed by many but why no BFK or FK - it won't be possible to build up a complete rake. Still, it will mean more sales for ERG ;)
The Scenecraft stuff looks great until you see the price tag. £20 for a static caravan and £90 for a low-relief cooling tower....that's going to put the range out of a lot of peoples pockets. (including mine).
I really don't mind what Bachmann post details of, it's actually what they do that counts so I'm still waiting for the revised BR Standard 4 tank engine which at one stage was in front of the Fairburn and the N class, preferably in BR "colours" ie dirty but if pushed any colour will do. :worried:
Must get back to painting the hall, stairs and landing and then I can write some more about "Yeoveney" which is long off the radar!
Happy Modelling,
Mike Beard
Are there any other colours than BR for a Standard 4?
Chris
Quote from: Wingman mothergoose on July 20, 2014, 02:09:40 PM
Are there any other colours than BR for a Standard 4?
Chris
To miss quote Monty Python's Albatross sketch its a BR STANDARD 4 its BR STandard 4 flavour...
Exit stage left Mr grumpy
Quote from: Sprintex on July 20, 2014, 12:50:11 PM
Quote from: bridgiesimon on July 20, 2014, 11:10:11 AM
It would also have been nice to have a summary of all the new items listed in the new product announcement.
Have a look here, sorry to link to another forum guys -
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87704-graham-farish-n-announcements-july-2014-secr-birdcage-stock-and-some-monster-scenecraft/ (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87704-graham-farish-n-announcements-july-2014-secr-birdcage-stock-and-some-monster-scenecraft/)
Best wishes
Simon
Shouldn't all these new announcements be on their own website rather than on a third party forum at least half the modelling community probably don't use? (me for one!) There's very little on the Bachmann website from what I can see :hmmm:
Paul
If you go to their website and click on the product categories, NEW is written on the left against the new items. I think that other site is juat grouping everything together.
It's all good if you like or model pre grouping southern stuff, what about the rest of us? ;-)
I'm shocked at how expensive that power station stuff is though! It would look awesome as a corner feature on my layout, but I can't justify the massive price tag! The GC signalbox and water tower are a tad more affordable though, as are a few other bits that will surely be finding their way onto Sherwood Central over the coming months if I can lay off buying locos!
Chris
Well I have had a CCT, City of Coventry and Blue Peter on back order for some time (at older prices!). These announcements will not cost me anything new unless I go mad and update my 20 and Std 4 Tanks. This is unlikely. If they had announced a Craven (105) in green, things would look different. My wish list is probably sufficiently obscure that it is not likely to be met by RTR. Back to butchery of kits and RTR.
I'm disappointed there's no class 40 but happy about them doing the blue class 47 #47096. Also pleased they are doing the MK2A TSO again in blue/grey as they disappeared rather quickly and I was only able to get 2 rakes. I did see mention of a power signal box but have not seen it yet, that's something I am seriously interested in.
I am wondering what the cost of the power station pieces will be also, I saw mention of 70 pounds for the cooling tower alone :goggleeyes:
I just saw the Power signal box and it looks good, I'll also be wanting a couple of the shunters messroom they are releasing. Boy that Power Station stuff is going to add up.
well at least the US stuff comes ready fitted - even if its crap decoder . its still saved you £$£$£'s
alan
£134.95 recommended retail price for a 2-car NSE 101 DMU ... that is if it's released before next year's price increases which could be another 20% rise on top.
Even with the max 15% discount for the first 8 weeks of release, as per their trade terms, it'll still cost £114.71.
I'll be much more cautious about what I'll buy new this year.
Quote from: Wingman mothergoose on July 20, 2014, 02:45:52 PM
It's all good if you like or model pre grouping southern stuff, what about the rest of us? ;-)
For a long, long time the lament of a Southern modeller was where is all RTR stuff for us? Now we're finally getting some good product channelled through everyone else is complaining. Who'd be a manufacturer...
I'm reasonably pleased with the approach this year. Clearly it's an attempt to catch up with what's been announced previously, rather than adding to the back log.
It's good to know that the A2, Coronation, COVHOP and Class 25 aren't now far away from delivery. I'm delighted that there's to be a rerun of the 101 DMU, and also pleased the 20 is re-released, albeit in factory weathered........
Lack of progress on the Merchant Navy is disappointing, but you can't have it all, especially when my layout is a couple of years away from being runable.
Phewww! My wallet is safe for another year then!
That being said that A2 is very tempting for conversion purposes! >:D
Quote from: Only Me on July 20, 2014, 03:26:53 PM
Ill add the 105 front to my prints for november release... You will as with the 416 have to butcher a 108 though ...
Now that sounds very interesting. I built one of Ray Evans kits of this some years ago, but if I am honest, I made rather a mess of it. Hand Tremor notwithstanding It is not up to my desired standards.
Quote from: talisman56 on July 20, 2014, 04:11:21 PM
Quote from: Wingman mothergoose on July 20, 2014, 02:45:52 PM
It's all good if you like or model pre grouping southern stuff, what about the rest of us? ;-)
For a long, long time the lament of a Southern modeller was where is all RTR stuff for us? Now we're finally getting some good product channelled through everyone else is complaining. Who'd be a manufacturer...
Very fair point Talisman. I am no southern fan but I have had my fill of goodies many times in the past. Good luck with and enjoy your turn!
My own blue sky wish list covers items such as the Scottish build K2, the Stanier 262T, one or two of which ran from Dumfries shed, and even a 16XX Pannier to recreate the Dornoch Branch train in its later years. I will dream on and consider butchery options.
Quote from: Wingman mothergoose on July 20, 2014, 02:45:52 PM
It's all good if you like or model pre grouping southern stuff, what about the rest of us? ;-)
I'm shocked at how expensive that power station stuff is though! It would look awesome as a corner feature on my layout, but I can't justify the massive price tag! The GC signalbox and water tower are a tad more affordable though, as are a few other bits that will surely be finding their way onto Sherwood Central over the coming months if I can lay off buying locos!
Chris
I hear ya. It is about 200 for the set of power station buildings. Ridiculous.
Nothing of interest for me this year, although given the amount of stuff we are still waiting for from last year, perhaps that is just as well.
Quite disappointed to see that the Castle and auto-coach have not even started development yet and the 64xx is only at the drawing stage. :veryangry2:
it will soon be time for the march 2015 catalogue anyway....
:NGaugersRule:
Quote from: Karhedron on July 20, 2014, 06:33:39 PM
Nothing of interest for me this year, although given the amount of stuff we are still waiting for from last year, perhaps that is just as well.
Quite disappointed to see that the Castle and auto-coach have not even started development yet and the 64xx is only at the drawing stage. :veryangry2:
Yes and no extra liveries for the Hawksworth coaches either.
Very, very disappointed that there is no mention of a SWT Desiro :'(.
Interesting to see the Southern Turbostar return - wonder if it will have directional lighting and be free of the split-gear issues?
All in all, pretty much a bummer for anyone that like the current day passenger trains :thumbsdown:
I really thought the 64xx was quite close, and have one on pre-order from Hattons at the pre increase price.
My availability of model funds is not what it was so I will have to be more picky about what I spend on.
As for the new buildings I think they will always appeal to those who do not the skills or desire to scratchbuild, but can afford them. I think they are good buildings but becoming just too expensive for many people.
If Dapol get the Grange out pretty smartish, they may well take some of the cash put aside for Farish products that many expected to be available shortly.
Quote from: Pengi on July 20, 2014, 07:44:58 PM
Very, very disappointed that there is no mention of a SWT Desiro :'(.
Interesting to see the Southern Turbostar return - wonder if it will have directional lighting and be free of the split-gear issues?
All in all, pretty much a bummer for anyone that like the current day passenger trains :thumbsdown:
I'm not sorry to see no new Desiro liveries - all the more vinyls for me to sell!! ;)
Don't know if the 158 or 170 will be upgraded - if the GWR Railcar is being made DCC-ready then they may upgrade the other old GF DMUs.
I'm waiting for the DRS 37 and NR 57 from last catalogue. That's why I'm half glad they are not releasing a great deal this year.
I would have liked to have seen a colas 70, and a new class 172, plus some more 47 and class 60 liveries.......
Oh well, always next year.....
Guys
Not much for me here maybe the Railfreight class 20 and outside possibility of NSE coaches really disappent there are no Regional Railways or Scotrail ones and no new modern wagons.
The buildings see to be the showstoppers. Again as stated previously the high cost maybe prohibitive.
On the subject of the power station buildings I have a few questions and suggestions.
1. Can these be used to model other industrial sites eg steelworks, cementworks etc?
2. Is the chimney scale height correct? looks a bit short from the picture shown!
A good money saving tip is model the Scottish power stations as they don't have cooling towers. Coal sector 26,37,56.
I am already planning a Methil Powerstation diaorama based on new buildings
Kind regards
Dave
Quote from: richie894 on July 20, 2014, 02:35:00 PM
If you go to their website and click on the product categories, NEW is written on the left against the new items. I think that other site is juat grouping everything together.
Oh Gawd, Richie :doh:
My poor wallet thought it was safe until I espied the weathered green class 20 and the new green class 47 ::)
Resist, I must :help:
Resistance is futile...
Use the force Mick.. or maybe even the credit card! :D
After all.. if you don't preorder the price WILL go up or there will be none left! :'(
Mark
GREEN diesels!!! Resistance is indeed futile!!! :drool:
Like the sound of those "Birdcage" coaches in Olive green, am surprised they are doing the Merchant Navy in Malachite as BR rather than Southern, rules it out for me, come on Dapol get on with the BoB/WC, well I can but hope!
Quote from: scruff on July 21, 2014, 11:31:16 AM
Resistance is futile...
Use the force Mick.. or maybe even the credit card! :D
After all.. if you don't preorder the price WILL go up or there will be none left! :'(
Mark
My shop of choice (Rails) only hold their price for pre-orders for 1 year after the order date.
I believe Hattons have no time limit - can anyone confirm this please?
Sods law states if I pre-order those 2 they won't appear for 12 months and 1 minute ::)
Quote from: newportnobby on July 21, 2014, 12:14:18 PM
Quote from: scruff on July 21, 2014, 11:31:16 AM
Resistance is futile...
Use the force Mick.. or maybe even the credit card! :D
After all.. if you don't preorder the price WILL go up or there will be none left! :'(
Mark
My shop of choice (Rails) only hold their price for pre-orders for 1 year after the order date.
I believe Hattons have no time limit - can anyone confirm this please?
Sods law states if I pre-order those 2 they won't appear for 12 months and 1 minute ::)
Hi
Rails have recently changed theirs to state that the price will be at least 15%-25% off RRP.
Cheers
Paul
Quote from: newportnobby on July 21, 2014, 12:14:18 PM
Quote from: scruff on July 21, 2014, 11:31:16 AM
Resistance is futile...
Use the force Mick.. or maybe even the credit card! :D
After all.. if you don't preorder the price WILL go up or there will be none left! :'(
Mark
My shop of choice (Rails) only hold their price for pre-orders for 1 year after the order date.
I believe Hattons have no time limit - can anyone confirm this please?
Sods law states if I pre-order those 2 they won't appear for 12 months and 1 minute ::)
Hattons do not limit it time wise as far as I know.
Certainly my Farish Ivatt 2-6-0, pre-ordered years before release was delivered at the original order price and significantly below the discounted shop price when it finally arrived.
Roy
Resistance was futile...................I have been assimilated ::)
I blame that Richie :angel:
Supplier decision made for me as Rails don't even list those 2 items :scowl:
Hello all,
(This is also posted on RM Web)
I attended the Bachmann Open Day today and while there wasn't that much announced for N, I thought I'd post some photos of what was on show. Apologies for the poor quality but they were snapped on a camera phone through glass. I know Model Rail's photographer attended yesterday and got some much better shots of some of the items.
The event was hosted by Bachmann Europe MD Graham Hubbard, but guest of honour was Kenneth Ting, the president of Kader Industries, the company that owns Bachmann. I understand it's only the second time in 25 years that Mr Ting has visited the UK offices, and he paid tribute to Bachmann's 48 UK-based staff.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/thumb_14164.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=14164)
Highlight for me of the N-gauge display were the factory-painted Polybulks, which are coming soon. However, it looks as though these will be the first N-gauge wagons to be hit with the price increases designed to reflect the cost of individual products; their high levels of separately fitted detail meaning an RRP of £39.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/thumb_14167.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=14167)
The Tartan Arrow CCT is lovely, but looked a little odd in the (correct) white finish as I think I've become conditioned to expect the cream colour as modelled years ago by Lima!
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/thumb_14166.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=14166)
Of the forthcoming locomotives, the pick of the bunch looked to me to be the DRS 37/4, though the Network Rail 57 wth Dellner couplers looks pretty good too. I understand these models have all been cleared for production and should be here soon....
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/thumb_14169.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=14169)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/thumb_14168.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=14168)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/thumb_14165.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=14165)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/thumb_14170.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=14170)
Perhaps the most interesting news was in the Scenecraft section; although the power station components have not yet been sampled there were models of the static caravan, shunter's cabin and some low relief retaining walls and shops etc on show that looked rather good. These buildings may not be "chocolate box" attractive, but they are nicely rendered models of authentic and workmanlike strutcures....
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/thumb_14171.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=14171)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/thumb_14172.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=14172)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/43/thumb_14173.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=14173)
There are plenty of other models in the pipleline that we know about, such as the Mk2f coaches, and a few we don't, but there are not likely to be any more new N Gauge announcements until next March, when I understand Bachmann will hold their usual Hobby show. It was explained to those attending that with so many items outstanding this catalogue is intended to be one of consolidation and catch-up - which probably makes sense.
Having said that, my impression was that while Bachmann continue to support N there is a little disappointment that sales seem to have plateaued at around 20% of OO, and I suspect the glory days of 8 new Farish locos per year are unlikely to return any time soon.
cheers
Ben A.
Quote from: Ben A on July 21, 2014, 06:50:53 PMHaving said that, my impression was that while Bachmann continue to support N there is a little disappointment that sales seem to have plateaued at around 20% of OO
Do you know if that's Farish N sales as a whole are 20% of Bachmann OO sales as a whole? Or is this a model-model-comparison where something is released in both OO and N?
Perhaps sales will pick up again once the prices have plateaued...
Thanks Ben
Some cracking photo's there.
Could it be that N gauge sales have reached a saturation point and we need to promote the gauge more?
Just a thought...
Mark
Quote from: Only Me on July 20, 2014, 08:44:18 PM
Railcar will have lights I hear..
Lights would be much more appropriate for the Cl.158 and Cl.170 than a GWR railcar where, even if they were on, they were hardly visible.
Thanks for posting those pictures Ben. I especially enjoyed the DRS 37 + NR 57's. These will be a welcome addition to the modern image range.
Wise decision playing catch up, shame to read about not so good N Gauge sales........
Thanks again for the pictures.
Hi Steve
What they said was that in the last few years Farish sales climbed noticeably from 15% of Bachmann's business to approaching 20%, but then that climb seems to have petered out and that's where sales have remained.
I get the impression that they are a little perplexed that some very good quality models - esp the EMUs such as the Desiro and 4-CEP - still have not sold out from the warehouse and there is a bit of headscratching going on about what can be done to entice more into N and get the growth resuming.
There may be a role for the NGS in this, and we try to be supportive of all manufacturers, but I'd be very interested in ideas for growing the scale that do not involve simply wishlisting additional or different models...
cheers
Ben A.
(NGS VP)
Quote from: Ben A on July 21, 2014, 09:16:16 PM
I get the impression that they are a little perplexed that some very good quality models - esp the EMUs such as the Desiro and 4-CEP - still have not sold out from the warehouse and there is a bit of headscratching going on about what can be done to entice more into N and get the growth resuming.
A good question following an interesting observation. Definitely worthy of its own thread! But since it's here...
One thing that could help would be knowing whether the N-gauge RTR market is driven by 'casual' collectors or 'serious' modellers. I mean that a 'casual' railway modeller would be someone who buys certain locos or wagons because they like the look of them and won't pass over something nice because it doesn't fit a particular era or location. A 'serious' modeller wants models that match their chosen timeframe and won't buy stuff that doesn't fit onto their layout.
Why I think this matters is this: Casual collectors and serious modellers will be discerning in different ways. Casual collectors value variety of liveries, perceived value for money, and the fundamental charisma of the prototype. A suburban EMU, however well made, doesn't (I submit) score well in at least two of regards: perceived value (they're expensive) and charisma (compared to locomotives, anyway). They can score well in terms of liveries though, it just so happens the Desiro and the 4-CEP both happened to be towards the duller end of the spectrum. But I'd imagine something more colourful, perhaps SWT or Virgin liveried, might have appealed more strongly.
Still, it is curious that DMUs seem to sell quite well, because they'd seem to suffer in the same ways as EMUs when compared to locomotives. This is where the serious modellers come in. The lack of third rail and overhead wire options has historically meant that serious modellers tended not to produce layouts requiring those features. So any multiple units they needed for their layouts would be DMUs, not EMUs.
In short: EMUs don't appeal to casual collectors, and without third rail or catenary, they aren't popular enough to be strong sellers among the (probably smaller) serious modeller end of the market.
My thinking, anyway!
Cheers, NeMo
PS. I did get the London Midland 350/1, and a cracking model it is. I didn't need it, but ride them every day, so just wanted one to play with -- does that make me a casual collector?!
Talking of advertising and promoting, I have never seen an N Gauge TV/internet advertisement?????
I remember Hornby did commercials, so why not N Gauge?
Just a thought......
That Tartan Arrow CCT looks fantastic but as you say Ben the white is very different. The photos I have do show them being white rather than cream. I wonder if Bachman might produce an LMS period 3 BG in the same livery at some point?
Thank you for the interesting post.
Best
Paddy
One thought about sales of N gauge... Is it a case that the majority of people chose N gauge due to space restrictions? If so, then possibly our layouts are smaller and require less rolling stock? HOLLERTON JUNCTION is 6x3 feet and I already have much more stock than can be accommodated on it. Personally this has made me take stock (excuse the pun) and moderate my purchases.
Just a thought...
Paddy
Quote from: Ben A on July 21, 2014, 09:16:16 PM
I get the impression that they are a little perplexed that some very good quality models - esp the EMUs such as the Desiro and 4-CEP - still have not sold out from the warehouse and there is a bit of headscratching going on about what can be done to entice more into N and get the growth resuming.
There may be a role for the NGS in this, and we try to be supportive of all manufacturers, but I'd be very interested in ideas for growing the scale that do not involve simply wishlisting additional or different models...
I agree that this subject probably deserves a thread in its own right.
My feeling is that Farish were focussed on building a coherent "scene" during their growth phase. The items that were released contributed to this by being focussed. Their initial attention on the LMS included the Jubilee, Royal Scot, Stanier coaches (as well as the promise of more recent release like the Black 5, Ivatt Mogul etc).
Since then they have become a bit more haphazard and I think that this has affected sales. The 4-CEP and desiro are lovely models but what else has been released to run alongside them? The 2-EPB has been in their 00 gauge range for a couple of years but has not been shrunk down. The 2-HAP is an obvious easy win from the work they have done on the Thumper but seems to have been ignored.
Now I don't model 3rd rail so there is no element if wishlisting on my part but I can see that in order to drive sales, you need enough stuff that would run together. Collectors and casual modellers may buy the big shiny steam engines. But modellers who would want a 4-CEP would also want the other units you would need to represent the Eastern section of the Southern Region.
On a subject that is closer to my heart, their GWR models seem to be languishing in the drawing room with the Castle and Auto-coach no nearer than they were when they were announced 15 months ago. These are potentially low-hanging fruit for Farish as Dapol have released a lot of GWR stuff meaning that people are hungry for a bog express loco like the Castle to run alongside their mixed-traffic engines and pannier tanks.
Farish need to consider their releases in the context of what else is available to run with it, particularly for the less glamorous but more work-a-day stock like multiple units.
The 4-CEP and Desiro are lovely models, but you cannot base a layout around them at the moment.
Quote from: Ben A on July 21, 2014, 09:16:16 PM
I get the impression that they are a little perplexed that some very good quality models - esp the EMUs such as the Desiro and 4-CEP - still have not sold out from the warehouse and there is a bit of headscratching going on about what can be done to entice more into N and get the growth resuming.
There may be a role for the NGS in this, and we try to be supportive of all manufacturers, but I'd be very interested in ideas for growing the scale that do not involve simply wishlisting additional or different models...
cheers
Ben A.
(NGS VP)
One idea to kick-start the sales of 4CEPs - produce the version with a Buffet car in it (4BEP) - instant sales to those who have a pair of CEPs and have room to model the full 12-car train, or those who have been holding back from a multiple purchase because of the lack of the complementary unit type. A shrink-rayed MLV wouldn't come amiss, either.
Alternatively make the Buffet car available as a swap-out for the TSK in a 4CEP so people can make a 4BEP themselves. This latter can either be a Farish production or a project for an enterprising third-party manufacturer (RTR or kit/scratchaid)...
This is not just wishlisting, Farish produced the three different types of Desiro, so people could choose the type that matches the train they wanted to run. Run two or more together and it's still a complete train. Perhaps the CEPs haven't sold because people can't run a complete train. Why Desiros haven't sold... a mystery to me.
What hasn't helped sales of Farish product is the recent 20% price increase, and promise of further increases of that magnitude in years to come. Many times I've seen the phrase 'rethinking my spending plans', or words to that effect on Forum posts because of the savage increases in prices applied this year and promised in the future.
Quote from: Ben A on July 21, 2014, 09:16:16 PM
Hi Steve
What they said was that in the last few years Farish sales climbed noticeably from 15% of Bachmann's business to approaching 20%, but then that climb seems to have petered out and that's where sales have remained.
Thanks Ben, I was just interested in exactly where N had got to. I don't doubt Bachmann would like to see sales rise further, as would we all, but personally I'm encouraged that 20% has been reached with the N gauge range being so much smaller than the OO equivalent :thumbsup:
But as I'm keen on seeing more EMUs/DMUs it sounds like I'm an endangered species :'(
Quote from: Ben A on July 21, 2014, 09:16:16 PM
Hi Steve
What they said was that in the last few years Farish sales climbed noticeably from 15% of Bachmann's business to approaching 20%, but then that climb seems to have petered out and that's where sales have remained.
I get the impression that they are a little perplexed that some very good quality models - esp the EMUs such as the Desiro and 4-CEP - still have not sold out from the warehouse and there is a bit of headscratching going on about what can be done to entice more into N and get the growth resuming.
There may be a role for the NGS in this, and we try to be supportive of all manufacturers, but I'd be very interested in ideas for growing the scale that do not involve simply wishlisting additional or different models...
cheers
Ben A.
(NGS VP)
Hi Ben
Many thanks for this.
It seems vital to me to target those eras where the majority of spend is. Without wishing to start any kind of controversy or offend any specific modelling group, that is undoubtedly steam/diesel transition. Models from that era sell and sell well, and indeed this is supported by the success of the NGS commissions covering that very period and the comparative
lack of support for anything modern. It is further supported by availability in shops where generally supplies of the more modern models remain plentiful and the transition models generally sell out far more quickly.
While I am not for a second suggesting that the transition era alone should be supplied, it does seem pretty clear that there is insufficient market to support say costly 4 car EMUs with such limited potential geographical and historically fine model though the Desiro is. This should not really be a surprise even based on their own previous observations about slow sales of electrics and ditto the third rail EMU.
What would be more revealing would be to see how sales split amongst the eras.
Regards
Roy
Hello all,
I wonder if the manufacturers ever feel that no matter how many items they produce, it never seems to be enough?
Our club layout Horseley Fields was largely designed around the anticipated arrival of the Farish 350 in LM livery, as it depicts a suburban line in the West Midlands. Yes, it would be nice to run a 323 or a Pendolino but we make do with a 90 + Pretendolino rake and various LM 153s and 170s. These are, in a way, "placeholders" (with thanks to S Jones) and if the correct stock becomes available, or we get around to scratchbuilding it, then we will replace them.
So, for example, with the 4-Bep previously mentioned would it be possible to buy a substitute Mk1 buffet car and drop it in to create an "impression" of a 4-Bep, then ensuing sales of the Cep would perhaps encourage production of a proper Bep?
What thoughts are there beyond suggesting additional models? What might be holding those outside N from taking the plunge??
cheers
Ben A.
Given that Bachmann haven't done a 4-BEP in 00, even though they've done the MLV and 2-EPB, I don't think there's much chance of it in N.
Quote from: Ben A on July 21, 2014, 11:13:09 PM
So, for example, with the 4-Bep previously mentioned would it be possible to buy a substitute Mk1 buffet car and drop it in to create an "impression" of a 4-Bep, then ensuing sales of the Cep would perhaps encourage production of a proper Bep?
I have a green RMB which I have inserted into my Green SYP set a couple of times but it doesn't look right. What I would really need is a green RU (the layout is a lot closer to the BEP Buffet) but that is impossible as the SR didn't have any...
Quote from: Karhedron on July 21, 2014, 10:21:29 PM
But modellers who would want a 4-CEP would also want the other units you would need to represent the Eastern section of the Southern Region.
I have 4CEPs and want the other units so I can represent the
Central Division of the Southern Region - but I know I am fighting a raging tide there...
Quote from: Ben A on July 21, 2014, 11:13:09 PM
What thoughts are there beyond suggesting additional models? What might be holding those outside N from taking the plunge??
Available space: Houses nowadays are built smaller than in the past, and every square inch is allocated to something or other. Kids are not leaving home and releasing 'spare' bedrooms because they are saving to get/can't save enough to get on the housing ladder themselves. This means that the only alternatives are the garage or the shed in the garden, both which will need some sort of work done to protect the content from extremes of weather/temperature/humidity. Which leads me on to...
Available finance: There is a lot less 'spare' cash lying around for hobbies. And I've mentioned before the increases in the cost of models themselves are putting people off spending money.
Available time: There are lots more activities about which give people the instant 'buzz' of accomplishment in their 'down time' from work - dare I also mention the computing revolution and the games, simulators and other activities thereon.
Image: Not exclusive to Railway Modelling, but the traditional hobbies and activities have an image of 'old people' about them which the younger set which we want to encourage to take part in are loath to take up because of the hit it will take on their kudos with their peers. There are several clubs and organisations I am involved with locally which are crying out for younger blood to take part in as the existing members fall by the wayside due to ill-health and eventually mortality; these include Twinning Association, Civic Society, and even Local Football Club.
I'm sure there are others, but this is a start. Must get to bed before the pills kick in... zzzzzzzzzz
Quote from: Roy L S on July 21, 2014, 10:51:19 PM
It seems vital to me to target those eras where the majority of spend is. Without wishing to start any kind of controversy or offend any specific modelling group, that is undoubtedly steam/diesel transition. Models from that era sell and sell well, and indeed this is supported by the success of the NGS commissions covering that very period and the comparative lack of support for anything modern. It is further supported by availability in shops where generally supplies of the more modern models remain plentiful and the transition models generally sell out far more quickly.
I think we should put to bed this myth that only transition era models sell well as that certainly is NOT bourne out by the NGS RTR sales. Some transition era items have sold well (some not so well), but equally so have *some* BR blue and privatisation models. Where models have done well is if they span a long period. So the picture is actually more complex.
I have some data (from NGS kit sales) which might be possible to do some analysis on changes in purchasers interests over time eg a possible hypothesis is that we should be starting to see a rise in sales of BR blue and sectorisation items over time.
It still amazes me that no one is prepared to take the bull by the horns for multiple units. For D&E models there aren't many loco classes to be done (21/29, 85 and 92 plus early AC and various one-offs) so the major omission is units. Given that so many of the units are families of classes with a bit of clever design at the outset you can save a lot in R&D by focussing on the most popular/widespread units of each class.
Cheers, Mike
(NGS Product Development Officer)
As a returning modeller, but in N this time it is an interesting market which this topic illustrates. As a novice trying to create a scene based upon a transition era as against BR blue which was current last time around. Having gone DCC my buying thoughts have changed somewhat.
Whilst the earlier locos that I bought were cheaper the running and DCC readiness of the new models has swayed my buying. Green DMUs which are hard to find now as they have come and gone, make up a chunk of my stock. As much as a Class 40 is just the loco for my era, I am not interested in the many bargains out there,
I know all about companies being competitors, but this lack of tie in is not helping. All that money spent on R&D only to be canned when word gets out that the competitor is thinking about it. If the companies got together admittedly through a body like the NGS I think we could be very poor
Quote from: talisman56 on July 22, 2014, 03:59:34 AM
Quote from: Ben A on July 21, 2014, 11:13:09 PM
What thoughts are there beyond suggesting additional models? What might be holding those outside N from taking the plunge??
Available space:.
Available finance:
Available time:
Image:
Those are all possible reasons why people don't take up the hobby but they don't answer the more important question which is why the majority still choose 00 over N...
In fact the space issue should favour the smaller scale...
Quote from: red_death on July 22, 2014, 05:41:33 AM
I think we should put to bed this myth that only transition era models sell well as that certainly is NOT boune out by the NGS RTR sales. Some transition era items have sold well (some not so well), but equally so have *some* BR blue and privatisation models. Where models have done well is if they span a long period. So the picture is actually more complex.
I have some data (from NGS kit sales) which might be possible to do some analysis on changes in purchasers interests over time eg a possible hypothesis is that we should be starting to see a rise in sales of BR blue and sectorisation items over time.
It still amazes me that no one is prepared to take the bull by the horns for multiple units. For D&E models there aren't many loco classes to be done (21/29, 85 and 92 plus early AC and various one-offs) so the major omission is units. Given that so many of the units are families of classes with a bit of clever design at the outset you can save a lot in R&D by focussing on the most popular/widespread units of each class.
Cheers, Mike
(NGS Product Development Officer)
Hi Mike
With respect did not say that only transition models sell, I said it is where the biggest market is. This is based on what I know from talking to model shop proprietors and indeed from the NGS's own published data and other sources, as far as I am aware it is not questioned? I have no doubt BR blue pre/post TOPS will also feature and indeed there is obviously a market for MI but how big and how much investment should be targeted at which is the question?
The NGS has been very clever in it's choice of RTR items and as you say they have been selected to span a wide timeframe but would
any of those products remained viable
without sales of the liveries covering the steam/diesel transition period? Which liveries were sold out on release? Where further runs have been commissioned which liveries have these been? The prospect of a RTR item of an existing prototype in a MI livery was canvassed but as I understand it (please correct me if I am wrong and it is going ahead) there were insufficient expressions of interest to make it viable? Take a look at diesel locos showing as available at Barwell, Blue 20s no green, blue 24s no green, blue and blue-grey DMUs no green. All are delivered in the same batch sizes...
I am unsurprised that there is disappointment at Barwell that the Desiro has not sold well. The model is top notch and doubtless the cost of tooling a 4 car EMU was significant. What I am saying is that based on their own prior comments concerning AC electric sales perhaps they shouldn't have been surprised!
Clearly (and for balance) there are steam locos that have also not done well, particularly the WD Austerity which could until recently be had from Hattons for £79, and to be honest that one has me scratching my head more!
Finally, on the subject of DMUS of 3 and 4 cars, I think Bachmann have ruled these out on grounds of cost meaning to high a retail price. I am sure clever tooling could mitigate some of this as you suggest as indeed it doubtless could assembly costs, but in the current market I cannot see them taking the risk.
Regards
Roy
P.S. Although I model steam/diesel I say none of the above based on self interest, I am thinking of what will sustain and grow our hobby. In point of fact I grew up in the blue-diesel era and have many fond memories of that time.
Just some more thoughts on OO vs N...
1. Does N gauge have much visibility outside modeling circles? The "high street" is dominated by OO through Hornby brand awareness. You do not get to see GF train sets in Argos for example.
2. A lot of the large club layouts are in OO. One would assume this contributes to additional sales of OO products.
3. Garden railways is another channel which is very limited in the N gauge market.
4. Is there much of a market for British N Gauge outside the UK? Again one gets the impression that many ex-pat modellers use OO.
5. Is there much of a collector market for N gauge?
6. Lack of nostalgia for N gauge. A lot of modellers grew up with OO and have fond memories. Those of us who started with N gauge probably have less positive remeninces of generic models with low levels of detail and poor running qualities. So returning modellers may not even bother to check out modern N gauge.
7. Cost. Modelling is becoming expensive in any scale. I know there have been many discussions about relative price and value but the headline numbers we have now cannot help. I remember a quote from Richard Lines when he was talking about Triang's challenges with TT. Richard said that people expected to pay less for the "little one" even though it cost the same to make as OO. This coupled with more steep price rises over the coming years will not help any of the scales I suspect.
8. Disposable income. If my previous point about N gauge modellers being short of space (even more so than other scales) then this could indicate lower levels of disposable income. People may be short of space because they are retired and on a fixed income. They may be short of space because they have their family/children at home which impacts on disposable income. They may simply be short of space because they cannot afford anything more so by definition they have limited spending power.
I realise the above is just a list of possible issues and no solutions. Just thinking out loud.
Paddy
Hi
I, like most people I would presume have stopped buying things because I like them and have gone back to only buying what I require for my layout.
I have also started building some of the kits I have had stashed for years mainly because I get enjoyment from kit building and I've already spent the money on them. I personally won't be buying a single Bachmann Covhop as I built my rake years ago from the Stephen Harris kit.
Cheers
Paul
Hello all,
Some very good points are being made, and interesting observations too. I should also point out that I made a slight mistake in my earlier post, sales of N are around 30% of OO, not 20%, but since the development/tooling/production costs are broadly similar for both scales Bachmann remain very keen to grow the market.
I think the fundamental issue is the seeming lack of "visibility" of N gauge - as has been said, a first train-set is far far more likely to be OO and this will then set in train (groan!) an immediate preference and committment to the larger scale. I suspect it takes quite a lot to sell up a significant amount of stock in order to change scales. And while the magazines feature N gauge layouts they are not nearly as common as OO/EM/P4.
I know when we attend shows with our club layout we get a lot of interest from members of the general public - especially wives/girlfriends/mums and younger children - and lots of surprise that N even exists.
Bachmann themselves accept that the Hornby brand is incredibly strong and for the time being will almost inevitably be the route into model railways for 99% of people.
Comments made about cost, and rising prices, are valid but I wonder whether - perhaps perversely - the relatively low "toy train" prices of British model railway items have tended to make them "seem" less grown up. On the continent, where prices have historically been significantly higher, model railways are a respected adult pastime.
Markets where N seems to do especially well are North America and Japan; I don't know much about the Japanese market but I read Model Railroader from time to time and am often struck by the number of *large* N gauge layouts it features. These really are aspirational and in a slightly paradoxical way N almost works better in a large space than a small space as the trains really do seem to be part of a far greater whole.
Please keep the ideas and thoughts coming.
cheers
Ben A.
I agree Ben some great comments have been made.
I do think that Farish products rising by the level they have and the warning of further increases can only be counter productive to their desire to grow the N gauge market. I echo what several people have said that they will now be very selective in any new farish products.
Most of us will have kits/projects, possibly stalled, squirreled away that may become attractive as the money has already been spent.
Basically they will not be getting as much of my money from now on. Scoring own goals springs to mind.
I sense that the 2nd hand market has been seen by a couple of the major "box shifters" as a growing market. From this I conclude that they imagine sales of new stuff could diminish, so are looking at other avenues of sales.
Quote from: Ben A on July 22, 2014, 09:24:46 AM
Markets where N seems to do especially well are North America and Japan; I don't know much about the Japanese market but I read Model Railroader from time to time and am often struck by the number of *large* N gauge layouts it features. These really are aspirational and in a slightly paradoxical way N almost works better in a large space than a small space as the trains really do seem to be part of a far greater whole.
The N gauge markets in Japan and US are slightly different. In the US, N gauge is popular for "big picture" modelling allowing miles of track rolling through the lanscape. Big locos and long rakes (particularly freight) are signature items for this sort of layout.
Japan on the other hand is much closer to the UK market in that houses tend towards the diminutive meaning larger scales just won't fit. The Japanese market is supported by large numbers of EMUs allowing modellers to represent busy modern scenes as well as iconic units such as "bullet" trains.
Growing the scale is one thing, addressing the poor sales of specific items is slightly different (although a net increase in N gauge modellers would on average benefit sales in all sectors).
For me, the key to growing the market is address sectors. Individual items will sell well if they are iconic locos like Tornado or Flying Scotsman. For less "rule #1" trains, you need to consider them in the context of what is available to run with them.
To look specifically at EMUs, consider Hornby's 2-BIL. This item was well received (in spite of the "design-clever" features) and has sold well. More runs were comissioned and it is also being followed up with a 2-HAL. Part of the reason for the success of these units is that they ran in a mixed setting. At the same time as the 2-BILs were running into Portsmouth, they were running alongside steam-hauled trains made of Maunsell coaches (Hornby again). This meant that a modeller didn't need to buy an entire fleet of electrics and Hornby did not need to tool up and entire family of related EMUs at one go.
The Kent coast electrification on the other hand was a very different affair. 4-CEPs replaced steam very quickly and operated alongside other EMUs for the most part. This means that the 4-CEP is not complimentary with anything else in Farish's range. The only matching stuff they sell are the SR scenecraft station buildings. While these make for a very nice layout, they do not provide anything to run on it.
The Desiro has the same problem. These run alongside Pendolinos, 321s, 323s, Electrostars and the like. Nice as it is to have an overhead EMU, it does not allow the recreation of anywhere realistic. Most of the loco hauled AC-trains were gone from the WCML by the time the Desiros arrived.
Another problem is Bachmann's irrational refusal to offer the 450 Desiros in SWT livery. This is an easy win for them as it is just a new livery. The Desiros would have sold better with the initial run split over 3 liveries rather than 2. Ironically, the 450s are better for running on their own if you model the line south of Basingstoke. You could have passenger services in the hands of 450s and Voyagers while an eclectic mix of diesels hand the frieght.
This is why their DMUs sell better. It is nothing to do with the fact that they fit the "transition era" (so does the 4-CEP). The DMUs can be run alongside a wide range of Farish's other offerings to represent the suburban services matching the glamorous express-passenger stuff.
I am not saying Farish should abandon EMUs or focus exclusively on transition era stock. Neither would help grow N gauge. What they need to look at is synergies between their existing range (as well as what Dapol offer) and new models they wish to release.
Quote from: Ben A on July 22, 2014, 09:24:46 AMI know when we attend shows with our club layout we get a lot of interest from members of the general public - especially wives/girlfriends/mums and younger children - and lots of surprise that N even exists.
I know the lack of general availability has frustrated my wife and daughters in the past. Many a time they have gone shopping and want to buy "Daddy" something for his "train set" only to find that it is all too big!
Quote from: Ben A on July 22, 2014, 09:24:46 AMBachmann themselves accept that the Hornby brand is incredibly strong and for the time being will almost inevitably be the route into model railways for 99% of people.
Probably the single biggest help to British N gauge would be Hornby entering the market in a big way. I suppose this will depend on how well the Brighton Belle does and the progress Hornby makes in sorting out its business problems.
Quote from: Ben A on July 22, 2014, 09:24:46 AMComments made about cost, and rising prices, are valid but I wonder whether - perhaps perversely - the relatively low "toy train" prices of British model railway items have tended to make them "seem" less grown up. On the continent, where prices have historically been significantly higher, model railways are a respected adult pastime.
This is a double edged sword Ben. By having high prices you certainly move away from the "toy train" market in to "executive toys". However, you then severely restrict the size of your market to those people with "executive" disposable incomes. Is there sufficient people like this in the UK to sustain companies like Bachmann, Dapol etc.? It is certainly a high risk strategy but then again we are sort of heading that way by default.
Paddy
Sadly, cost is likely to be a factor least under Bachmann's control. Commodity prices are going up driving up the cost of raw materials. Wage increases in China drive up production costs and high fuel costs make getting the products to the UK more expensive too.
Obviously lower prices will boost sales, particularly the impulse buy segment. But that is not going to help Bachmann if they make little or no profit on those sales. They are a company and need to make a profit to remain in business. Capitalism has a long (if chequered) history and the laws of supply and demand are probably better studied than the laws of physics. I am sure the price rises are not something Bachmann have done lightly and are acutely aware that overall volumes are likely to fall as a result. But that will affect their 00 range too so in a sense, it will not unduly penalise N gauge.
Unless someone is able to outsource to an even lower cost country or invents new manufacturing technique that radically cuts costs, prices are only going to move in one direction.
Another option that Bachmann could consider is reintroducing the Graham Farish Magnum layouts like GF of old. This would allow them to offer a simpler entry point in to the N gauge market whilst also showcasing their rolling stock and Scenecraft buildings.
People who bought the Magnum layout would ideally then go on to purchase controller(s), track, locos, rolling stock, decoders and a significant number of buildings/scenery items like people. There was a very nice layout in GF's 2013 catalogue which would make a good starting point.
This is nothing new as other companies have been doing similar things for decades. Depending on how you packaged this idea it could certainly take you up market as well.
Just an idea...
Paddy
Quote from: Karhedron on July 22, 2014, 10:02:09 AMUnless someone is able to outsource to an even lower cost country or invents new manufacturing technique that radically cuts costs, prices are only going to move in one direction.
This may prove to be the only viable option in the long run. I suspect it will not be model railways that are the driver here but rising costs in other markets. The large multi-nationals will move production to where they can achieve the best quality and margins and to date this has mainly been China for mass production. I find it hard to believe that other countries are not monitoring China's rising costs and seeing opportunities for them in the years ahead to under cut China. This will no doubt take years and China may respond aggressively e.g. lifting the 1 child law so that they grow their pool of labour.
Alternatively, it may be technology like advanced 3D printing that is able to remove/reduce the human element to a point where costs can be better controlled.
Whether all of this will happen quickly enough to benefit British N gauge and model railways in general only time will tell. I am sure NASA have some very bright people working on the problem! ;D
Paddy
I think Farish et al could boost sales without big investment.
On several occasions in the last two years I've had money burning in my pocket and just can't source what I want, other than from auction sites.
It seems to me that there a number of utility vehicles, which modellers will always want and which just are not available. A great example at the moment is BR Bauxite 20T brake vans. Until recently I couldn't get my hands on MK1 SKs or BSKs in Maroon.
If Bachmann (and for that matter Dapol) were to re-run some of their standards then I think they would get some relatively cheap incremental sales, after all when we are paying inflated prices for models from eBay the manufacturers see zero income.
Cheers
Dave
Pardon the interruption to the interesting debate regarding costs, etc., but the new catalogue is listing Birdcage Stock set - 374-911 in olive green.
The cost seems pretty steep but I was wondering if I could justify them if it would be right to put those behind my lovely, and still yet to be run, UM T9.
Dave G
Quote from: daveg on July 22, 2014, 10:25:46 AM
Pardon the interruption to the interesting debate regarding costs, etc., but the new catalogue is listing Birdcage Stock set - 374-911 in olive green.
The cost seems pretty steep but I was wondering if I could justify them if it would be right to put those behind my lovely, and still yet to be run, UM T9.
The birdcage stock was ex-SECR (basically the eastern side of what became the Southern) whereas T9s were ex-LSWR (the western portion). There may have been occurrences of a T9 hauling birdcage stock but I don't think it was very common.
A much better match would be the forthcoming Dapol Maunsell coaches. They are also selling them in complete sets and a 4-coach set in Maunsell olive can be had for £72.
http://www.ehattons.com/74763/Dapol_2P_012_251_Maunsell_Set_450_Lined_Green_BR_3rd_brake_4069_composites_5161_5162_and_3rd_bra/StockDetail.aspx (http://www.ehattons.com/74763/Dapol_2P_012_251_Maunsell_Set_450_Lined_Green_BR_3rd_brake_4069_composites_5161_5162_and_3rd_bra/StockDetail.aspx)
I do not know how much the 3-coach birdcage sets will retail for but the forthcoming Hawksworth coaches are listed at £26 each so a 3-coach set may well cost more than the 4-coach set from Dapol.
Thanks Karhedron.
I have the Maunsell set on pre-order so you've saved me the cash to spend on something else!
Dave G
Quote from: Roy L S on July 22, 2014, 07:48:46 AM
With respect did not say that only transition models sell, I said it is where the biggest market is. This is based on what I know from talking to model shop proprietors and indeed from the NGS's own published data and other sources, as far as I am aware it is not questioned? I have no doubt BR blue pre/post TOPS will also feature and indeed there is obviously a market for MI but how big and how much investment should be targeted at which is the question?
Apologies, I didn't mean to be so absolute in what you said. My point was that from the NGS data I don't think it is at clear cut that transition era is more popular ie that although some transition era stuff has sold well, others haven't sold so well - the data shows that it is very model and livery specific. For example the inspection saloon has sold very well in maroon and blue-grey. The Snowploughs sold well in the 70/80s variants, but not so well in earlier variants.
Quote from: Roy L S on July 22, 2014, 07:48:46 AMThe NGS has been very clever in it's choice of RTR items and as you say they have been selected to span a wide timeframe but would any of those products remained viable without sales of the liveries covering the steam/diesel transition period?
Take a look at diesel locos showing as available at Barwell, Blue 20s no green, blue 24s no green, blue and blue-grey DMUs no green. All are delivered in the same batch sizes...
Would the models have been viable without transition era sales - probably not, but equally they wouldn't have been viable without BR blue sales!
I'm not aware that any liveries sold out on release, though a few have sold out subsequently.
Batch sizes may be the same but number of variants isn't always the same eg the 20s had 2 versions in BR blue produced, similarly the 101s have had various "blue" liveries - blue, blue-grey, express parcels. I don't think that is a good metric!
Quote from: Roy L S on July 22, 2014, 07:48:46 AMI am unsurprised that there is disappointment at Barwell that the Desiro has not sold well.
Despite it being a great model (and perfect for my interests), I still think it was an incredibly strange choice of EMU to pick, particularly given they didn't produce the (almost) identical 450. Given they had CAD from the 150 why not pick one of the Mk3 based units which are much more wide spread and long lived.
Cheers, Mike
Quote from: red_death on July 22, 2014, 12:02:33 PM
Despite it being a great model (and perfect for my interests), I still think it was an incredibly strange choice of EMU to pick, particularly given they didn't produce the (almost) identical 450. Given they had CAD from the 150 why not pick one of the Mk3 based units which are much more wide spread and long lived.
I agree. The 319 would be a smart starting point for an EMU as it suits both OHEL and 3rd rail modellers. Also they are quite widely travelled with some having gone up the WCML as far as Rugby while others have branched out on the Southern beyond just Thameslink routes. This is likely to increase as new units are delivered to Thameslink as the 319s have been mooted for cascading to the GWML, the welsh valleys or further north.
Once you have the Mk3 chassis and basic bodyshell, slides for the cab and window arrangement would allow the range of units from 317-456 to be produced. The trouble is that that might be quite a long term plan and Farish probably need each release to pay for itself individually.
Ah well. Bob at N-Train is working on a 319 to follow up the 313 and I believe he is working with other Mk3 stock in mind so we may get a full Mk3 family albeit in kit form rather than RTR.
Before N Gauge gets more popular there are two or three things that need overcoming:
Reliability - all too often we hear of models that don't work new from the box. Split gears still occur. Haullage power is sometimes restricted. Valve gear and coupling rods fall off. Similar issues occur in other scales of course!
Exhibition layouts - like it or not, N Gauge layouts have a reputation for being un-realistic, tail-chasing train sets. We know decent N Gauge layouts exist and there are plenty of poor 4mm and 7mm our there. Unfortunately the best N Gauge ones are not sticking in peoples mind the same way the likes of Mostyn, Bath Green Park, Dewsbury Midland and Wibdenshaw do.
Size - it is a problem! N Gauge is seen as being fiddly and difficult to work in. Modellers don't see that the smallest part you'll fit to a 4mm scale kit is no different to the smallest part you'll fit to a 2mm scale kit. IMO it's not helped by at least one of the main magazine editors having a bit of a bias against N Gauge.
Improve the layouts and more people will be tempted to give N Gauge a go as they'll see it can be more than a toy. Give those new N Gauge modellers reliable products and they'll soon learn that size isn't an issue!
Happy modelling.
Steven B.
I think that cost plays a large part in popularity of N gauge. Apparently it costs as much to make an
N gauge item as the equivalent OO version. Presumably the planning , die making and labour costs
are the same and economies of scale come into play, but the raw material, packaging and shipping
costs should be about a quarter of the OO version.
The Farish Class 08 shunter costs the same as the Bachmann 00 version. However if you go into
a car showroom you don't expect to pay the same for a Fiesta as a Mondeo.
Quote from: Agrippa on July 22, 2014, 01:25:04 PM
but the raw material, packaging and shipping costs should be about a quarter of the OO version.
However those costs only make up a small proportion of the overall costs. Also, production runs in N gauge are usually smaller meaning that the R&D and tooling costs need to be spread over a smaller number of models.
As an accountant dealing in marginal costing now and then I appreciate economies
of scale are an important factor, but to the average Joe starting in modelling going
into a shop and seeing a tiny loco or train set priced the same as a much larger one
he'll buy the big one, as he's not interested in far-off factories or R & D costs.
An alternative tack would be for a larger version of the Union Mills type of
operation albeit with less super - detailing and choice of liveries.
Quote from: red_death on July 22, 2014, 12:02:33 PM
Apologies, I didn't mean to be so absolute in what you said. My point was that from the NGS data I don't think it is at clear cut that transition era is more popular ie that although some transition era stuff has sold well, others haven't sold so well - the data shows that it is very model and livery specific. For example the inspection saloon has sold very well in maroon and blue-grey. The Snowploughs sold well in the 70/80s variants, but not so well in earlier variants.
Batch sizes may be the same but number of variants isn't always the same eg the 20s had 2 versions in BR blue produced, similarly the 101s have had various "blue" liveries - blue, blue-grey, express parcels. I don't think that is a good metric!
Hi Mike
Pretty recent NGS polls shared with members show that it looks pretty clear-cut that steam/diesel transition is the dominant part of the Market. Of course nobody could possibly challenge that there will always then be individual models that defy that general principle.
I was given to understand that maroon (with maroon ends) inspection saloons sold out before release and were by far the most popular. Is this not the case? Were maroon Stove R's (sold initially in more than one running number - was it three?) not the most popular and quick selling liveries (quirky Pullman one aside perhaps?).
The point I was making about diesels is that single runs of 1008 green ones sold out long ago, the batches of models that stick on the shelves of Barwell do not tend to be green diesels but blue and later. If one wants to be really pedantic there were two BR green Class 24 variants, the plain green one sold fastest and is now comparatively hard to get hold of, two tone green with yellow panel second, and now all that is left at Barwell is the BR blue ones. Indeed maybe there is even a case for releasing more individual green livery variants?
I am not suggesting that there is not a healthy market elsewhere, indeed some locos like the 37 and 47 carried a huge variety of liveries forward from their initial BR green and continue in modern mainline operation today, they are probably amongst the most viable and lucrative Farish locos, but again it's BR green ones have generally sold out first!
Regards
Roy
Quote from: Karhedron on July 22, 2014, 10:39:44 AM
Quote from: daveg on July 22, 2014, 10:25:46 AM
The birdcage stock was ex-SECR (basically the eastern side of what became the Southern) whereas T9s were ex-LSWR (the western portion). There may have been occurrences of a T9 hauling birdcage stock but I don't think it was very common.
Unless you have an ex-SECR route running in ex-LSWR territory, ie the Rattler (Reading-Redhill). T9's regularly hauled birdcage sets on this route in the 1950's until both started to be replaced by BR stock and redundant stock from the Kent coast electrification. The Birdcages are in the correct colour for this period.
Sadly nothing for me so I must hurry up and complete the 2-BIL.
Dodger
Quote from: dodger on July 22, 2014, 03:11:57 PM
Unless you have an ex-SECR route running in ex-LSWR territory, ie the Rattler (Reading-Redhill). T9's regularly hauled birdcage sets on this route in the 1950's until both started to be replaced by BR stock and redundant stock from the Kent coast electrification. The Birdcages are in the correct colour for this period.
Well, you learn something new every day. :read: That'll teach me to simply reel off a simple answer without checking. :-[
Now that you have pointed it out there is even a photo showing the pairing.
http://railway-photography.smugmug.com/SteamMisc/More-Misc/i-46H66hD# (http://railway-photography.smugmug.com/SteamMisc/More-Misc/i-46H66hD#)!/SteamMisc/More-Misc/i-pSZvbdx/A
Quote from: Karhedron on July 22, 2014, 10:39:44 AM
A much better match would be the forthcoming Dapol Maunsell coaches. They are also selling them in complete sets and a 4-coach set in Maunsell olive can be had for £72.
http://www.ehattons.com/74763/Dapol_2P_012_251_Maunsell_Set_450_Lined_Green_BR_3rd_brake_4069_composites_5161_5162_and_3rd_bra/StockDetail.aspx (http://www.ehattons.com/74763/Dapol_2P_012_251_Maunsell_Set_450_Lined_Green_BR_3rd_brake_4069_composites_5161_5162_and_3rd_bra/StockDetail.aspx)
From the pictures so far shown of the Dapol Maunsell's they look more like Restriction 4 stock, but set 450 was Restriction 1 stock. Still suitable for Reading-Redhill. Now I'm puzzled!
Dodger
Quote from: Karhedron on July 22, 2014, 03:22:33 PM
Well, you learn something new every day. :read: That'll teach me to simply reel off a simple answer without checking. :-[
Now that you have pointed it out there is even a photo showing the pairing.
http://railway-photography.smugmug.com/SteamMisc/More-Misc/i-46H66hD# (http://railway-photography.smugmug.com/SteamMisc/More-Misc/i-46H66hD#)!/SteamMisc/More-Misc/i-pSZvbdx/A
I do have a slight advantage in that I lived and that route between 1954 & 1974 and the secondary school playground was adjacent to it! :smiley-laughing:
Dodger
Quote from: Karhedron on July 22, 2014, 03:22:33 PM
Quote from: dodger on July 22, 2014, 03:11:57 PM
Unless you have an ex-SECR route running in ex-LSWR territory, ie the Rattler (Reading-Redhill). T9's regularly hauled birdcage sets on this route in the 1950's until both started to be replaced by BR stock and redundant stock from the Kent coast electrification. The Birdcages are in the correct colour for this period.
Well, you learn something new every day. :read: That'll teach me to simply reel off a simple answer without checking. :-[
Now that you have pointed it out there is even a photo showing the pairing.
http://railway-photography.smugmug.com/SteamMisc/More-Misc/i-46H66hD# (http://railway-photography.smugmug.com/SteamMisc/More-Misc/i-46H66hD#)!/SteamMisc/More-Misc/i-pSZvbdx/A
Ahh, well, now then! ;)
Does this all mean that I should consider a set and start setting some cash aside for them? :hmmm:
Dave G
I guess the single most important question is whether you like the prototype. T9s were long lived and ran with a lot of different coaches.
Assuming that the birdcage st9ck floats your boat, the next question is whether you are modelling somewhere it might have been seen. If you are simply somewhere on the SR then you should be fine.
Lastly, can your wallet take the strain?
If yes, buy it!
If no, buy it anyway and put it on the credit card. :D
Quote from: Karhedron on July 22, 2014, 03:57:19 PM
I guess the single most important question is whether you like the prototype. T9s were long lived and ran with a lot of different coaches.
Assuming that the birdcage st9ck floats your boat, the next question is whether you are modelling somewhere it might have been seen. If you are simply somewhere on the SR then you should be fine.
Lastly, can your wallet take the strain?
If yes, buy it!
If no, buy it anyway and put it on the credit card. :D
Was keen on this set until I saw Hattons projected price! :o
http://www.ehattons.com/82823/Graham_Farish_374_911_Triple_Pack_of_SECR_60_Birdcage_Stock_in_SR_olive_green_Price_is_estimated_we_w/StockDetail.aspx (http://www.ehattons.com/82823/Graham_Farish_374_911_Triple_Pack_of_SECR_60_Birdcage_Stock_in_SR_olive_green_Price_is_estimated_we_w/StockDetail.aspx)
The Credit card has breathed a sigh of relief! Mind you by the time they appear I may have won the lottery :claphappy:
Quote from: MinZaPint on July 22, 2014, 05:00:58 PM
Quote from: Karhedron on July 22, 2014, 03:57:19 PM
I guess the single most important question is whether you like the prototype. T9s were long lived and ran with a lot of different coaches.
Assuming that the birdcage st9ck floats your boat, the next question is whether you are modelling somewhere it might have been seen. If you are simply somewhere on the SR then you should be fine.
Lastly, can your wallet take the strain?
If yes, buy it!
If no, buy it anyway and put it on the credit card. :D
Was keen on this set until I saw Hattons projected price! :o
http://www.ehattons.com/82823/Graham_Farish_374_911_Triple_Pack_of_SECR_60_Birdcage_Stock_in_SR_olive_green_Price_is_estimated_we_w/StockDetail.aspx (http://www.ehattons.com/82823/Graham_Farish_374_911_Triple_Pack_of_SECR_60_Birdcage_Stock_in_SR_olive_green_Price_is_estimated_we_w/StockDetail.aspx)
The Credit card has breathed a sigh of relief! Mind you by the time they appear I may have won the lottery :claphappy:
I was also going to buy this... but £102 for three coaches ??? Not a chance !
what a shame...... :(
£34/coach _ I wouldn't be at all surprised if that isn't the level we have to get used to for more obscure coaches. Wasn't the Dapol Gresley buffet £35 a few years back?
Brian - the 319s are due to be shuffled north IIRC following all the electrification work around Manchester and Liverpool. Not sure that any have been to Scotland (or out of the NSE area yet).
Cheers, Mike
With the time it takes to get from catalog to shop I am guessing we'll have plenty of time to save up for the impending new releases.
I for one am not going to get excited...
Quote from: red_death on July 22, 2014, 05:32:16 PM
£34/coach _ I wouldn't be at all surprised if that isn't the level we have to get used to for more obscure coaches. Wasn't the Dapol Gresley buffet £35 a few years back?
Quite correct the Gresley Buffets were £35 when originally released (for some daft reason I bought two at that price!).
The rest of the Gresley coaches at that time retailed at £25 if I recall correctly.
It could well be typical of the price for more bespoke coaches simply due to the relatively limited market for them, and I do wonder if it will be the first and last of the kind we see from Bachmann.
It makes the NGS Inspection Saloon (Whatever era/livery we are talking about!) an absolute bargain!
Roy
If it had been Quad-Art set Bachmann had announced though, even at that price I might just have been tempted...
Quote from: Agrippa on July 22, 2014, 01:25:04 PMI think that cost plays a large part in popularity of N gauge. Apparently it costs as much to make an N gauge item as the equivalent OO version. Presumably the planning , die making and labour costs agreatre the same and economies of scale come into play, but the raw material, packaging and shipping costs should be about a quarter of the OO version.
The Farish Class 08 shunter costs the same as the Bachmann 00 version. However if you go into a car showroom you don't expect to pay the same for a Fiesta as a Mondeo.
Ah but the profit margin on a Fiesta is probably smaller than on a Mondeo to make the difference in price. Ford then hope to offset this by selling more Fiestas. Sadly I am not sure this sales model can be applied to model railways as the volume is simply not there anymore.
Edit: this was the approach Triang took with TT to make it cheaper than their OO models. As we all know it did not work.
Paddy
Hello all,
£102 for three coaches is probably where things are now.
Check out the prices for triple packs of Fleischmann coaches at, say, Gaugemaster. All around £100-£130.
I suspect this is the new normal.
cheers
Ben A
All this is making the Dapol 4-coach packs look even better value. The trouble is I really want a rake in malachite livery. Do I hold out and risk a price rise or order the olive set at a bargain price? ???
Let's not all forget DJM's announcement tomorrow. Could be some nice surprises there......
Oh! Damn.. Now I've got froth all over the keyboard! :-[
Mark
Now there is a concept
It will be interesting to contrast the two postings come tomorrow :hmmm:
Quote from: Ben A on July 22, 2014, 06:25:27 PM
£102 for three coaches is probably where things are now.
Check out the prices for triple packs of Fleischmann coaches at, say, Gaugemaster. All around £100-£130.
I suspect this is the new normal.
Ben,
Please stop encouraging the suppliers to increase the prices. Please resist the temptation to announce the going rate for Fleischmann coaches.
Best regards,
Joe
QuoteThe birdcage stock was ex-SECR (basically the eastern side of what became the Southern) whereas T9s were ex-LSWR (the western portion). There may have been occurrences of a T9 hauling birdcage stock but I don't think it was very common.
The UM T9 has the 6 wheel tender which was fitted to most of the 300 series locos starting in the late 20s through to WW2 due to many of the Eastern section turntables being too short to cope with the 8 wheel watercarts; these T9s were all sent to the Eastern and Central sections as those sections tended to have less economical locos which the SR gradually scrapped. The condition of the track and weight limits on bridges precluded use of larger locos for some years on many of the Ex SECR lines.
The T9s therefore will have spent a lot of time hauling ex SECR stock, so much so that ex SECR stock would probably be more correct; some returned after WW2 until conditions improved, plus the Spam Cans started to appear.
Quote from: Parky on July 22, 2014, 08:42:35 PM
Now there is a concept
It will be interesting to contrast the two postings come tomorrow :hmmm:
I wouldn't get too excited, but I'd expect Dave to announce some items to fill some gaps somewhere.......
I'd live a class 21/29, but I'm not hopeful...
I've pre-ordered a Birdcage set and will await notification of the real price when I can either go for it or run away.
My collection of locos and rolling stock started out as GWR centered but I developed a bad bout of Ruleone-itus and now have a great mix of kit including a bit of SR, waiting for a new layout.
Desperate to get the house sale/purchase done and dusted so I can start building and running trains again.
Dave G
Quote from: joe cassidy on July 22, 2014, 08:49:38 PM
Please resist the temptation to announce the going rate for Fleischmann coaches.
Sorry - I meant to say :
"Please resist the temptation to announce the going rate for Fleischmann LOCOS"
Best regards,
Joe
Quote from: ScottyStitch on July 22, 2014, 08:16:19 PM
Let's not all forget DJM's announcement tomorrow. Could be some nice surprises there......
Sadly nothing that suits me in his announcement, fairly certain the Q6 never reached as far north as Perth.
Might pick up another class 17. I already have a single and a double (power + dummy) on order. Possibly another double could be on the cards.
Quote from: Dorsetmike on July 22, 2014, 08:53:14 PM
QuoteThe birdcage stock was ex-SECR (basically the eastern side of what became the Southern) whereas T9s were ex-LSWR (the western portion). There may have been occurrences of a T9 hauling birdcage stock but I don't think it was very common.
The UM T9 has the 6 wheel tender which was fitted to most of the 300 series locos starting in the late 20s through to WW2 due to many of the Eastern section turntables being too short to cope with the 8 wheel watercarts; these T9s were all sent to the Eastern and Central sections as those sections tended to have less economical locos which the SR gradually scrapped. The condition of the track and weight limits on bridges precluded use of larger locos for some years on many of the Ex SECR lines.
The T9s therefore will have spent a lot of time hauling ex SECR stock, so much so that ex SECR stock would probably be more correct; some returned after WW2 until conditions improved, plus the Spam Cans started to appear.
If only I could justify a 300 series T9 hauling birdcage stock in the western sector (ex-LSWR)!
What's the deal with the actual catalogue, still not available to purchase?
Quote from: richie894 on July 25, 2014, 11:29:17 AM
What's the deal with the actual catalogue, still not available to purchase?
Expect to see a CAD image around this time next year, and if you're lucky it might be in the shops by Christmas 2015! :P
Quote from: newportnobby on July 16, 2014, 09:57:03 PM
Will the catalogue come out on time, I wonder? :hmmm:
Need I say more? ::)
AFAIK the catologue was being given out over the weekend for those traders who attended and in the post for those who didnt so they should be out there by now!
Richard
Quote from: richie894 on July 25, 2014, 11:29:17 AM
What's the deal with the actual catalogue, still not available to purchase?
like the good old days - given free with xmas train sets :D
alan
In my Bachmann news EMail:
"Landing on doormats in August
Collectors Club members will shortly receive our Anniversary Edition of the Bachmann Times, volume 15 No. 1, which this year replaces the Autumn copy of the magazine. Included with the magazine will be your free copy of our special 2014 Bachmann Branchline or Graham Farish catalogue, along with details of further new club exclusive products, in both N and OO scale."
Am I excited by the announcements across all the mfrs ? Not particularly ...
Will I be splashing out my cash on anything ? Probably not; I don't think I've bought any N since 2012 TINGS ... certainly nothing more than a wagon.
Is there anything in any of the "promised" items I want ? Yes ... but a) it has to be delivered and b) it has to be at a price I consider reasonable. Otherwise ... OO will get more purchases ...
Why ? Because that scale has the items I want, available now. N, for me, is a particular set of years in a particular area. DMUs/EMUs ? Don't bother. LNER or nothing ... and frequently these days, it's the latter ... :(
I note that the Farish web page had an update on Wednesday, one item that caught my eye was that the N class mogul will now be coming in SECR grey livery as well as SR olive and BR livery: They are still using shots of the 00 scale model, the SR olive green being shown with a 3 figure number presumably with an A prefix that it would have carried from grouping up to about 1930 after which it should lose the A prefix and have 1000 added to the number.
Too bad they aren't doing the N Class in malachite livery. Oh well, maybe next year. ::)
I notice on the website the supposedly 'heavily weathered' Royal Scot is, erm, well, just weathered. What happened to the 'heavily' bit? >:(
Must say the weathered Class 25 looks rather nice :hmmm:
My spelling of malashite should give an idea of my opinion of it! I can never understand why model manufacturers insist on using it, it was comparatively short lived, applied between 1938 and about 1940 when wartime black took over, applied to the new Spam cans then post WW2 they started using it again mainly on larger locos until nationalisation. I think the only M7s to carry it were the ones working empty stock in and out of Waterloo, the "Royal" T9, 119 received it post war, about half a dozen others got it 1939/40, I doubt many moguls carried it either, maybe that's why they haven't done an N in it.
It was a nasty, garish "in yer face" colour, (still is!) showed the dirt far more so than Maunsell olive. Also it was rarely seen away from the main lines, for example rarely west of Bournemouth on the Weymouth line, I was a train spotter in those days during and after WW2 so knew it first hand so to speak, I suspect about the only people that liked it were the publicists.
Quote from: Dorsetmike on July 26, 2014, 10:54:36 AM
My spelling of malashite should give an idea of my opinion of it! I can never understand why model manufacturers insist on using it...
It was a nasty, garish "in yer face" colour...
Don't hold back, Dorsetmike; tell us what you really think! :hmmm:
Cheers, NeMo
Quote from: Dorsetmike on July 26, 2014, 10:54:36 AM
My spelling of malashite should give an idea of my opinion of it! I can never understand why model manufacturers insist on using it, it was comparatively short lived, applied between 1938 and about 1940 when wartime black took over, applied to the new Spam cans then post WW2 they started using it again mainly on larger locos until nationalisation. I think the only M7s to carry it were the ones working empty stock in and out of Waterloo, the "Royal" T9, 119 received it post war, about half a dozen others got it 1939/40, I doubt many moguls carried it either, maybe that's why they haven't done an N in it.
It was a nasty, garish "in yer face" colour, (still is!) showed the dirt far more so than Maunsell olive. Also it was rarely seen away from the main lines, for example rarely west of Bournemouth on the Weymouth line, I was a train spotter in those days during and after WW2 so knew it first hand so to speak, I suspect about the only people that liked it were the publicists.
Well said, Mike.
Dodger
Quote from: NeMo on July 26, 2014, 11:58:14 AM
Don't hold back, Dorsetmike; tell us what you really think! :hmmm:
Cheers, NeMo
What and get banned?!!!!!!?
Has this been posted? Enlightening if you care to wade through it.
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/85287-bachmann-why-price-increases-are-necessary/ (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/85287-bachmann-why-price-increases-are-necessary/)
At first I was a it disappointed by the announcements, but I can now see that a catch up year is a good idea.
Not much in there for me this year, a couple of wagons and a GC Signal Box is about it. Having said that I could be tempted to a GWR Railcar.
Ollie
:NGaugersRule:
Quote from: Ollie3440 on July 28, 2014, 10:03:12 PM
Having said that I could be tempted to a GWR Railcar.
Is it still the old railcar body with just some chassis tweaks or is it a whole new model? I am assuming it is still the later, angular Swindon railcars.
Quote from: Karhedron on July 28, 2014, 10:54:29 PM
Quote from: Ollie3440 on July 28, 2014, 10:03:12 PM
Having said that I could be tempted to a GWR Railcar.
Is it still the old railcar body with just some chassis tweaks or is it a whole new model? I am assuming it is still the later, angular Swindon railcars.
I believe it has running lights but other than that I don't know more :hmmm:
Sorry for the above post - wrong information :sorrysign:
Having just seen a shop copy of the catalogue I can confirm there are NO lights, the running number is W22W and that it will be DCC ready
Oh for a railcar to modern standards. Even better if it was one of the early streamlined ones, they just looked cooler. 8)
It will be good if Farish can incorporate an interior, either by using a low level chassis or a 108-style single powered bogie in the guards' van.
The old Farish bodywork is a bit clunky but generally OK, particularly with the standard of finish these days.
Had a mail from Hattons today.
The Cumbrian Mountain Express set is now due Jan/Feb 2015 :hmmm:
Quote from: newportnobby on July 31, 2014, 03:09:08 PM
Had a mail from Hattons today.
The Cumbrian Mountain Express set is now due Jan/Feb 2015 :hmmm:
Indeed, but it's starting to look like the bargain of the century: new 'Duchess', three blue riband Mark 1 coaches, and a Scenecraft signal box, all for under £130! That's the same price as buying a new 'Duchess' on its own! :confused2:
Cheers, NeMo
Hmm, maybe I should pre-order and just split it for profit when it arrives? :hmmm:
Not sure what my good lady would make of that idea. :slap:
Either way, it looks like the supply chain problems are far from resolved.
Quote from: NeMo on July 31, 2014, 03:15:36 PM
Quote from: newportnobby on July 31, 2014, 03:09:08 PM
Had a mail from Hattons today.
The Cumbrian Mountain Express set is now due Jan/Feb 2015 :hmmm:
Indeed, but it's starting to look like the bargain of the century: new 'Duchess', three blue riband Mark 1 coaches, and a Scenecraft signal box, all for under £130! That's the same price as buying a new 'Duchess' on its own! :confused2:
Cheers, NeMo
I did have the loco pre-ordered but as soon as I saw the train pack at a lower price my pre-order rapidly got changed :)
i had 3 emails off hattons today, as been said already the cumbrian mountain express is jan/feb 2015, and so is the other 2 sets with the 4F (Landship Train) and blue WD (Longmoor Military Railway set)
which is a shame but guess i can save a little money even though Warely and possibly TINGS is still gona kill me!
seeing as i see at least 2 duchess heading my way (BR Green for Sutherland, and a blue cos its nice, debating about black), at least 1 spam can (livery tbc as im not sure which spam can to rename it to, maybe get a blue one as its nice aswell), Blue Peter.
suprised the N class hasnt got a date on it yet seeing as they now have liveries!
so thats alot just in terms of locos, then theres rolling stock!
theres a couple pullmans, and other bits and bobs, the GCR scencraft range im after for my personal layout...sheesh!
Thanks for the heads up, guys! Didn't see that email so have placed my order and will zap the loco only one.
The MK1s won't match anything but there's always Rule 1!
Dave G
I also received an email from Hatton's today re the Countryside Coal Digital Set with Class 3F Jinty I have on order and in that email they say December 2014/January 2015 so I could be getting a nice Christmas present if I'm lucky. :)