An offshoot of the 'How bad are Farish and Dapol?' thread, continued here for the benefit of Roy L S and anyone else interested...
This whole question of loco kits - even with the higher standards possible with 3D printing, etching etc, how many people would still be interested these days in building their own locos? Twenty years ago you didn't have a lot of choice as the RTR offerings were a very limited range and pretty basic. And with a bit of care and patience you could build, say, a Gem 4F which was no worse in finish and detail than a Farish Black 5. But now with the huge range and museum-standard detail and finish of modern RTR, are there really that many people who would be prepared to have a loco on their layout which looks frankly crude and amateurish compared to the ones they have just bought and plonked on the track? And aside from pre-Grouping locos which are a bit of a minority taste, where are the obvious gaps in the range of RTR locos that need a kit to fill them?
I'm starting to think this hobby has changed a lot since I was last involved. It has become a lot more inclusive, in that you don't need to have any particular skills to have a good variety of near-perfect (at least in looks) locos and rolling stock. But perhaps the age of bodgers and fiddlers is over. If that is the case I can't help feeling we have lost something.
I am of the same opinion. All those years ago you were lucky if you got anything BR N gauge. These days I would be only interested in a kit for something unusual... The Bleeder, for example.
The reason I left the British side of the hobby many years ago was the complete dissatisfaction with loco kits. In those days I was in OO after a disappointing start in N.
Not many people, including myself, could successfully build a loco kit and get it running to a reasonable standard.
With the advent of very good quality RTR (generally) the bodgers and fiddlers have turned their attention to other aspects of the hobby. Super detailing, weathering and scenery to name a few of the things that they now do. Previously, due to the time taken to build things these aspects were generally glossed over.
I think what I am saying is that the bodgers (bugger the spelling checker has just changed it again!) and fiddlers now do it in different aspects of the hobby.
Kind regards
Geoff
I have only returned to the hobby in the last 12 months....as the off the shelf new locos and coaches are now so detailed and to be fair with a pretty good selection of the era i am into..br blue diesels...i have no inclination or time for building rolling stock...the most difficult and demanding bit for me will be trying to produce realistic scenery and settings for the models..this will take me years I think of fiddling and bodging and learning as I go..so I agree that maybe bodgers have moved onto the scenics more than the rolling stock
Interesting question.
I like the idea of a versatile 0-6-0 chassis that could be used for a number of loco kits but, as others have said, I'm a little concerned that the finished object would look poor compared with modern RTR locos and stock. I have disposed of most of my Poole-Farish locos because they look out of place next to their Bachman Farish equivalents.
When it comes to building stuff I've limited myself to buildings, scenery and the occasional wagon kit.
Buildings tend to be assembled as per the instructions (except for the small signal box on my station platform, where I cut down the base slightly) although I've applied paint and washes to hide the white edges and tone down the colours. At some point I'll try more complex scratch building/kit bashing.
I've had to figure out building the landscape as there's simply no "ready to plant" option. I wasn't expecting to enjoy it but it has proved to be quite satisfying as bits of wooden board and insulating foam start to take on the appearance of a landscape.
Peco wagon kits are a nice, cheap way to 'bulk up' a goods train, they aren't as good as the latest RTR stuff from Dapol or Farish but they're good enough for most of my needs. I also find I don't need to worry about getting a perfect paint finish or reproducing an intricate colour scheme with lining - a few quick coats of matt grey and some more dustings of 'dirt and grime' and it is ready to go. At some point I'd like to tackle something more ambitious.
I quite fancy having a go at the class 128 DPU that I've seen on here that uses the Dapol class 121/122 chassis. But I think it is a bit more complex than just assembling a kit.
i have never thought of kit building a loco but i would love to try it what do you get in a kit ? do you get all the stuff to complete it
It depends on whose kit you buy and how detailed you intend to make your model - the last one I built had separate handrails, lamp irons, lamps, fire irons, fall plate reversing lever, crew and although they were supplied in whitemetal, a brass chimney and safety valve cover -and of course a loco chassis and tender wheels had to be sourced to complete the basic model. I have 3 more to build at the moment and 2 bodies that need a few extra details like handrails and lamp irons. the point of all this labour? I thoroughly enjoy building locos and rolling stock and all 5 (Bodies included) are not available ready to run and I very much doubt that they will be in the future - oh I forgot the 3 diesel loco bodies to paint all the previous stuff is steam.
and after that? well maybe a trip into slightly uncharted territory - an etched brass kit
Best of luck
Alex
Sounds like a nice comprehensive kit - what loco is it? You never get glue, paint or transfers, but otherwise the contents vary a lot, from the kit described above to a few misshaped whitemetal castings and a smudged photocopy set of instructions which appear to refer to a different kit altogether. Building a loco kit is something everyone should try at least once. What's the worst that can happen?
Just to give an alternate view here there are those of us who have always 'made do' with what is available and would NEVER consider kit-building a loco as even if the skills can be learned the motivation cannot ;)
When I was into N gauge as a teenager I bought what was available RTR in Beatties and that was that, if I wanted a particular loco but it wasn't made then I did without. The same mindset exists today - The DMUs on my current layout may not be exactly region-accurate, but it's all we have and I certainly wouldn't sit for hours trying to construct some obscure DMU only to find it didn't meet my own standards of finish :no: So going back to the original post yes it has become more inclusive with the bigger range of RTR stuff, but that can only be a good thing for keeping N gauge going and as already debated, there will always be the "bodgers and fiddlers", they'll just be bodging/fiddling some other aspect of model railways :thumbsup:
Paul
Quote from: Sprintex on June 19, 2014, 11:01:09 PM
Just to give an alternate view here there are those of us who have always 'made do' with what is available and would NEVER consider kit-building a loco as even if the skills can be learned the motivation cannot ;)
Paul
That's fair enough. This hobby is whatever individuals want it to be, which is one of the great things about it. But I do think that by sticking purely to RTR people are missing out on the bit of the hobby that has given me more fun than any other. If you build (or convert / modify) a loco yourself, and it works, that's really something to be proud of. So what if it doesn't look quite as neat and crisp as the ones you bought? You built it. It's yours and there is no other one exactly like it, anywhere. Exhibit A:
(http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx178/glencoyne/190614003_zps8be55755.jpg)
Without that part of the hobby, once you've finished your layout scenics and exhausted the operational possibilities (usually pretty limited on a small layout) what then? All you can do is keep buying more and more new stuff from Farish and Dapol, to get that short-lived buzz of having something new to run. And eventually, just spending money on new stuff has to get boring. At which point the little trains get packed away for good, the layout sold or put in a skip, and people drift away from railway modelling and take up golf instead.
Building stuff yourself has always been at the heart of this hobby, and locos and rolling stock are the bit of any layout that most of us are most interested in (otherwise we'd just build model villages with no trains). If the quality of modern RTR is really putting people off having a go at building stuff themselves, then I worry that railway modelling may be dying from the roots up.
I have a whitemetal kit for an 04 shunter which is still in it's box after 20 years. Now that Farish have an RTR model available, will it ever get built? I don't think so.
Back in 1977 I built a Peco 'Jeanette 009 kit which I mounted on an Arnold chassis. It ran OK but looked horrible because of my paint job. Plus it never got a chimney 'cos that's where the screw was to get the chassis off.
That's my one and only foray into loco kits, and will be the only one, I'm afraid.
Unless, as I posted earlier, someone produces a 'Leader'..... :uneasy:
Quote from: belstone on June 20, 2014, 07:19:01 AM
Without that part of the hobby, once you've finished your layout scenics and exhausted the operational possibilities (usually pretty limited on a small layout) what then?
Build layout No.2 ;)
That's exactly what I plan to do. Once the current one is finished (ha ha, that's a good 'un -
finished :D ) and hopefully attending a show or two then construction of the next one will start, it's already planned :) Apart from utilising a few of my current trains I'll need a few more for the next one - another shopping list :D
Paul
PS: As for golf, been there done that ;) Sold the clubs on Ebay or else they would have ended up in the nearest lake! ;D
I agree that kitbuilding can be fun but it can also be daunting until you get some experience.
If you want to try your hand, maybe start with some of the wagon kits provided by the N Gauge Society. These are a good introduction to kit building as they are supplied complete with things like wheels and transfers. You will still need to supply glue and paint as most can be finished in more than one livery. Some of the bsic ones are very straight-forward and require no more skill than assembling an airfix kit.
Once you have gained some experience and confidence, you can try more complex kits involve metal or making coaches or even locos.
The class 128 parcels railcar is actually not a very difficult kit. Part of the reason for this is that is simply sits on a normal Dapol class 121/122 chassis that requires no modification. You take the 128 body kit, paint it and then swap it with the Dapol body. Several of the liveries are simple to apply such as all-over rail blue. If you are not sure about the quality of your painting, you can just paint the roof grey and apply bodyside vinyls for the livery from Electra Railway Graphics.
Here are 2 examples from opposite ends of the kit building spectrum. First is an NGS (ex-parkwood) kit for a China Clay wagon. This took less than 30 minutes to build and not much more to paint. Second is a class D600 Warship which includes resin bodyshell, whitemetal mogies sides that I sourced myself and etched plates from shawplan.
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee199/Karhedronuk/DSCF2251.jpg) (http://s234.photobucket.com/user/Karhedronuk/media/DSCF2251.jpg.html)
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee199/Karhedronuk/DSCF3408-1.jpg) (http://s234.photobucket.com/user/Karhedronuk/media/DSCF3408-1.jpg.html)
I agree, the Parkwood wagon kits are an excellent place to start. Cheap, easy to build and with a Peco chassis no worries about whether they will run properly. As a step up from that you can try something like a Parkside-Dundas kit where you have to assemble the chassis yourself. About three-quarters of my wagons are Parkwood kits, with transfers from CCT. I don't think they look out of place next to the Farish cattle vans and brake van that I bought recently. (The two behind D6134 are not yet finished.)
D600 is very nice indeed, and reminds me that I really ought to finish the paintwork and transfers on D6134...
"That's fair enough. This hobby is whatever individuals want it to be, which is one of the great things about it. But I do think that by sticking purely to RTR people are missing out on the bit of the hobby that has given me more fun than any other. If you build (or convert / modify) a loco yourself, and it works, that's really something to be proud of. So what if it doesn't look quite as neat and crisp as the ones you bought? You built it. It's yours and there is no other one exactly like it, anywhere."
I couldn't agree more with that post beltsone (sorry, but the predictive spelling on my ipad keeps changing your name to belts on!) it's what you want it to be. Each to their own.
I'm happy to see you have ventured into the kit market Karhedron. I'm especially into the mechanisms "under the body", but I can see why some people just want "plug and play". It's just we each get different things out if the hobby and we cannot say "this is right, or that is right etc etc).
Now, as for kit badhing, bodging, fiddling, whatever it's called, are there chassis you can build yourself. Someone below mentioned something. Was that you Karhedron?
Dan
Quote from: belstone on June 20, 2014, 07:19:01 AM
Quote from: Sprintex on June 19, 2014, 11:01:09 PM
Just to give an alternate view here there are those of us who have always 'made do' with what is available and would NEVER consider kit-building a loco as even if the skills can be learned the motivation cannot ;)
Paul
Building stuff yourself has always been at the heart of this hobby, and locos and rolling stock are the bit of any layout that most of us are most interested in (otherwise we'd just build model villages with no trains). If the quality of modern RTR is really putting people off having a go at building stuff themselves, then I worry that railway modelling may be dying from the roots up.
I have been in this hobby since the 1970's and I can well remember when quality plastic wagon kits came onto the market the scratchbuilders threw their hands up and said the hobby was dying.
Well, all these years later I am still here, most of my modelling friends are here and the hobby hasn't died.
Like all hobbies, it is going through a phase and adjustment.
Take the radio controlled aircraft. When I was a lad whilst most flyers scratchbuilt their aircraft most had to use fixed lines as radio controlled was very expensive. Now you can walk into your hobby shop and buy a ready to fly aircraft with radio control for less than $300. Has that hobby died because no-one is producing their own. I don't think so.
Kind regards
Geoff
Quote from: DesertHound on June 20, 2014, 01:00:44 PM
Now, as for kit badhing, bodging, fiddling, whatever it's called, are there chassis you can build yourself. Someone below mentioned something. Was that you Karhedron?
Building a chassis myself is not something I have tried my hand at yet. I have always fone for the easy(er) option of putting a new bodyshell on an existing RTR chassis. Pretty easy for multiple units, requires a bit more research for diesels, harder for steam unless it is a company like the GWR who standardised somewhat on wheel arrangements early on.
It is not impossible to kit build a steam loco chassis, or even scratch-build one for that matter. Basically you need some way to make a rigid box with holes for the wheels, motors and gears. It is almost more miniature engineering rather than modelling and whether you can do it depends on practice and aptitiude.
For making steam loco chassis, the wheels are rather vital as they are on display and different engines used very different sizes and styles of wheels.
Take the radio controlled aircraft. When I was a lad whilst most flyers scratchbuilt their aircraft most had to use fixed lines as radio controlled was very expensive. Now you can walk into your hobby shop and buy a ready to fly aircraft with radio control for less than $300. Has that hobby died because no-one is producing their own. I don't think so.
Guys, how can I quote part if a post, and not the whole thing?
Chatty, you are right, hobbies do evolve and we do tend to decry the changes and feel that the heavens are coming down. Most of the time they don't of course. We are humans, we tend not to like change (it's the same in the workplace).
I had to laugh at your comment about radio controlled aircraft though. That's my brother's field if interest so we have that conversation all the time. Problem is, you'd probably have to through away that ready to fly plane if you so much as dropped it on the floor. Take it back to the shop and ask if you can get a spare nose cone or aileron and they'll probably look at you as though you've just landed from Mars! :bounce:
Dan
Quote from: Chatty on June 20, 2014, 01:12:15 PM
Take the radio controlled aircraft. When I was a lad whilst most flyers scratchbuilt their aircraft most had to use fixed lines as radio controlled was very expensive. Now you can walk into your hobby shop and buy a ready to fly aircraft with radio control for less than $300. Has that hobby died because no-one is producing their own. I don't think so.
But if you just buy an aeroplane, take it out of the box and fly it, can you really call yourself an aeromodeller? Yes, there's some skill in learning to fly it, but you can achieve most of the same effect by taking your Playstation out into the back garden. Railway modelling is a bit different in that no-one has yet produced a complete ready to run layout, so everyone has to do some construction work at some point. But I start to wonder whether RTR layouts are the next 'big thing' we will see in our hobby. And at that point the same question will arise - is it actually 'modelling' if you just buy a layout, plug it in and run trains on it?
And thirty years from now? Design your layout on your 15th generation smartphone, download locos and rolling stock and project the whole thing into empty space as a 3D hologram :D I'll still be fiddling with Plastikard - if I can buy it by then.
Good points there belstone! Especially that last one about holograms :laugh:
Well, I'm an example of what you describe below. I bought a small shelf layout, since my interest is not so much in modelling (although I'd like to think I could manage it one day - had a half-hearted attempt a few years back). And this is where I DON''T think model railways are different from, say, model aircraft. It is a hobby that allows you to get out of it what you want.
My interest is in dismantling old locos and getting them to run to perfection, logging such things as current draw, parts changed, parts salvaged etc. they spend more time on the rolling road than on the layout. Perhaps a bit anoraky, but it's WHAT I WANT out if the hobby. Just like the model aircraft enthusiast, he might either prefer to build his own and fly them, or he might prefer to buy RTF and customize them or even build his own airfield for them. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are no rules in a hobby (it's not like a sport) and we can all get what we want from it. However, the day I cannot buy an n gauge loco that I cannot take apart, or get spares for, well for me that's the end of the hobby (or at least I would have to adapt). Hence my main interest is in Poole stock.
Now you mention it - I'm quite tempted to go and get an RTF! :laugh3:
Dan
Ah belstone, I forgot to add ... Ready to Run layouts are already here ... it's called Kato :-X
I guess hobbies can be a broad church. Yup, someone who buys an RTF isn't really a modeller if he doesn't do anything with that plane other than fly it. However, he's still part of the hobby in a sense. He's still a stakeholder in the hobby, but not in the literal sense a plane modeller. However, he might move on to be one at some point in the future.
I guess then that I'm not technically a railway modeller :hmmm: That said, I still like to think that I have something to bring to the community. We evolve within a hobby, we change interests within a hobby and I think there should be room for everyone.
Anyway - I'm veering horrendously off topic here - :sorrysign:
Quote from: DesertHound on June 20, 2014, 03:35:02 PM
Now you mention it - I'm quite tempted to go and get an RTF! :laugh3:
Well ... I've been tempted to get a RTF, but never got around to it (that & SWMBO hovering in those shops ready to drag me out :'( ).
But ... I picked up a book quite a few years back on building 'em from scratch (balsa, ply etc) starting with a basic glider, working up to a trainer that has multiple stages (glider / power / radio) and finishing up with building a 1/5 scale Spit ...
I just need time :'( ...
All good stuff Dan and you are absolutely right. This hobby means different things to different people and no-one can tell anyone else what they should or shouldn't be doing. And anyone who can dismantle an N gauge loco, put it back together without any parts left over and have something that works at the end is a modeller in my book. I suppose my personal interest in this issue is that (1) I'd quite like to get into supplying kits and parts on a small scale one day, when I'm too old and creaky for the heavy mechanical stuff I currently do for a living. So the more people take up bodging and fiddling, the more customers I will have ;) (2) Even if I don't go down that route, if everyone gives up making stuff themselves and just buys everything off the shelf, the supply of bits and pieces will dry up due to lack of demand, and where will I be then? My wife's Uncle Ronnie built N gauge locos in the 1950s and scratchbuilt everything - even the motors - but then he was a genius. I'm not.
Have to admit I still have some N gauge etched brass kits to make, but after building my brickworks layout I decided I needed a change and now model narrow gauge - it does mean if you don't stick to the Welsh slate railways anything goes and the rolling stock was often rough and ready - some people will super detail stuff but I prefer to try and capture the atmosphere if I can.
I have built locos in Whitemetal, etched brass, 3dPrinted, and etched brass scratch aids over plasticard or RTR body shells.
Currently waiting on delivery of a NG etched brass railbus kit that will fit on a Kato 103 chassis.
As others have said we all have our own preferences and I shall still be bodging stuff all the time I can afford / still get it.
Quote from: DesertHound on June 20, 2014, 01:20:03 PM
Guys, how can I quote part if a post, and not the whole thing?
Click "Quote" then delete everything you don't want between the "quote" and "/quote"brackets, and then add your own text after the "/quote" bracket.
The thought of etched brass loco kits fills me with dread. I don't think I could ever make one. Let alone know where to start.
Thanks gore bridge! Thought there might be a quicker way than that (like highlighting what you want to quote) but that's fine, you confirmed the on,y way I know how to do it.
Cheers
Dan
To quote anything, not just earlier posts, have the source of the quote in a separate tab, highlight the text that you want to quote, click edit/copy, (or use <ctrl>C) get back to the NGF tab click the quote icon, and paste the copied text between the [ quote][ /quote ] tags, when you select the quote icon the cursor automatically appears between the [ quote][ /quote ] tags
These have been copied from two other forums
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So you can include a quote from any page you can display in this or any other tab/window.
Thanks DorsetMike - I'll give that one a go!
Whilst I run about 90% ready to run. Kit building is confined to plastic or whitemetal loco and rolling stock bodies, certainly not brass of scratch building. I even converted a Langley class 4 4-6-0 to fit on a Poole 2-6-4T chassis to make a Class 4 2-6-0 at a time when nothing else was available. Some Poole built stock has been repainted as the livery I wanted was not available at the time.
My first interest and probably the reason I still have a model railway is designing and building my own control systems including track circuits, train stops and automatic operation including points and signals.
I therefore consider myself as a modeller and not a trainset operator.
Dodger
Dodger, you said ...
I therefore consider myself as a modeller and not a trainset operator.
I think as long as you enjoy whatever it is you get from the hobby, it doesn't really matter what you are categorised as. Even if people are just train operators, that's fine too. Like I said before, a train operator could turn into a modeller, or a track designer one day etc.
I'm too not really a modeller, but someone who loves repairing old Poole locos. It's great I think that this hobby (like many others I guess) is open to whatever you want to get out if it.
Cheers
Dan
Back when I started modelling in N gauge, I had a go at scratch building my own loco bodies using a variety of materials, metal, plastic and even cardboard (actually my most successful scratch builds were in card) as there isn't a great range of rtr for the 1930's LNER modeller. However, shortly after this Farish released it's new V2 and the new standard was set was far above my own modelling abilities.
Personally, I like to try and keep everything to a similar standard so for a time I didn't do any modelling. Then I read about 3D printing and spent some time learning CAD and waiting for printing to catch up with the level of detail I was incorporating in my designs. One thing has led to another and now I sell some of my 3D prints, mainly items that interest me but other prototypes are slowly appearing too.
With it now possible to easily create transfer artwork and print it using a home computer/printer, the standard of finish can be brought very close to that now achieved by rtr manufactures - have a look at some of the stuff created by Thebrighton in the workbench thread.
I'm very much in the using a rtr chassis camp so I still bodge and fiddle in this department to get locomotives I want. I would still consider myself a modeller, however I now employ other tools in my modelling.
I think any kit building, bodging and fiddling will always result in a model with some compromises being made, the same is still true of the rtr manufactures. Despite the level of detail achieved, there are still compromises to be able to mould details, fit chassis, etc present, just the level of compromise has decreased dramatically over the last ten years or so.
I think there will always be a situation where a person would like a model that nobody makes, then it would be a case of scratchbuild/bodge or go without - hopefully many will choose the former! I do think that everyone should have a go at making some bits for themselves (I'm concentrating on buildings personally now) or at least some painting, you can't surprise yourself if you don't try!
Anyway, I'm rambling so will get my coat! :smiley-laughing:
Quote from: Atso on July 13, 2014, 04:21:54 PM
Back when I started modelling in N gauge, I had a go at scratch building my own loco bodies using a variety of materials, metal, plastic and even cardboard (actually my most successful scratch builds were in card) as there isn't a great range of rtr for the 1930's LNER modeller. However, shortly after this Farish released it's new V2 and the new standard was set was far above my own modelling abilities.
Personally, I like to try and keep everything to a similar standard so for a time I didn't do any modelling. Then I read about 3D printing and spent some time learning CAD and waiting for printing to catch up with the level of detail I was incorporating in my designs. One thing has led to another and now I sell some of my 3D prints, mainly items that interest me but other prototypes are slowly appearing too.
With it now possible to easily create transfer artwork and print it using a home computer/printer, the standard of finish can be brought very close to that now achieved by rtr manufactures - have a look at some of the stuff created by Thebrighton in the workbench thread.
I'm very much in the using a rtr chassis camp so I still bodge and fiddle in this department to get locomotives I want. I would still consider myself a modeller, however I now employ other tools in my modelling.
I think any kit building, bodging and fiddling will always result in a model with some compromises being made, the same is still true of the rtr manufactures. Despite the level of detail achieved, there are still compromises to be able to mould details, fit chassis, etc present, just the level of compromise has decreased dramatically over the last ten years or so.
I think there will always be a situation where a person would like a model that nobody makes, then it would be a case of scratchbuild/bodge or go without - hopefully many will choose the former! I do think that everyone should have a go at making some bits for themselves (I'm concentrating on buildings personally now) or at least some painting, you can't surprise yourself if you don't try!
Anyway, I'm rambling so will get my coat! :smiley-laughing:
I quite agree with your thoughts and philosophy. I was wonder what the finish on 3D printed steam locos was like, is must fettling required to produce a good paint finish?
Dodger
Quote from: dodger on July 13, 2014, 06:44:29 PMI quite agree with your thoughts and philosophy. I was wonder what the finish on 3D printed steam locos was like, is must fettling required to produce a good paint finish?
Dodger
It still depends to an extent. With FUD, in all cases, it will normally take two or three passes with some 600 grit wet and dry to remove all traces of the printing process. Using a fast drying car primer this can normally be done within a few hours. I wouldn't rate it as being particularly difficult, just a bit of attention as to where needs a little work.
The printing process (even on existing machines) is being refined all the time and the quality seems to be getting better and better. It's not quite at a level where the print can be used as is IMHO but it is very very close now... Personally, I'll take this as I believe that the finished article is better than any other kit type (unless it is taken from a printed master), other than if you've got the skill to do an etched kit justice (but I would say this wouldn't I! :D )
Edit: Oh, and a good clean before any paint is applied to the model (as per any kit) to remove manufacturing residues...
:D I had always wanted to start in N-Gage when I started modelling but my local shop sadly had her indoors running it when ma lady and I went in...
She told us that the best sets to buy were Hornby...... Sadly knowing no better we bought into that and ran out of room 12 months later ( that's on an 8 ft by 7 ft layout btw ).
Now I know better and am currently planning the same boards, maybe even 8x8 by 2ft wide for my N-Gage layout... the RTR models are fantastic as stated on this thread so I am concentrating more on the scenic side of this hobby which are also getting better every day.....
In case anyone is interested, I came across my cardboard concept model of a J6 running on a Union Mills 39 wheelset. Everything (including the chassis) was made out of cardboard soaked in car board resin! I never did finish this as I really wasn't happy with it and still (c. 6 years later) haven't gotten around to designing a 3D printed replacement...
Seen here along with a (much used on here) photo of my N2 to show the difference in the standards achievable between my own scratch building efforts and my 3D printed ones...
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k481/Atso-Cad/CardboardJ6_zpsc5918eea.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/Atso-Cad/media/CardboardJ6_zpsc5918eea.jpg.html)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k481/Atso-Cad/3D%20Prints/N2Complete2_zps4631e2fc.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/Atso-Cad/media/3D%20Prints/N2Complete2_zps4631e2fc.jpg.html)
The N2 is the close thing to a J6 I currently have, hence the comparison...
My best effort so far has been to coax a Langley Std 5 kit onto a B1 chassis.
It would be great if someone released an 0-6-0 chassis / motor with decent spoked wheels.
I would also love to see a10ft wagon chassis with NEM pockets to make kit building and coversion easier
Quote from: Atso on July 14, 2014, 01:58:14 PM
In case anyone is interested, I came across my cardboard concept model of a J6 running on a Union Mills 39 wheelset. Everything (including the chassis) was made out of cardboard soaked in car board resin! I never did finish this as I really wasn't happy with it and still (c. 6 years later) haven't gotten around to designing a 3D printed replacement...
Seen here along with a (much used on here) photo of my N2 to show the difference in the standards achievable between my own scratch building efforts and my 3D printed ones...
Wouldn't the J6 be a perfect first venture into the kit market using the readily available UM tender-drive. If Mr Heard
could be persuaded to look at a suitable chassis for a range of kits then even easier!
Just a thought........
Roy
...I do fancy having a go @ the GEM S&D 8f....
got a Grafar 8f for the chassis too.....
just need some time!!!
I'm dyspraxic, which means I have difficulty seeing and reproducing straight lines. I also suffer from Repetitive Strain injury and my right wrist is in a splint for much of the time.
With these problems I can only admire the efforts of 2mm finescale modellers, and others who can make perfect little gems. However it is no use telling me that I can aspire to making such masterpieces- medically I will never be able to do so.
I can. however, paint, line and weather stock. I can also bodge conversions and I can build layouts that exhibition managers seem quite happy don't detract from the quality of their shows.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/44/thumb_14023.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=14023)
An example of bodging- a pair of UM J25s. Each has been chipped for me- I can't solder reliably to the accuracy needed not to melt a decoder. Each has had a repaint- the back one twice, someopne will remember an LNER J25 on Trevor Webster's Parnhams with the fireman sitting in the tender reading a newspaper. Each has been weathered and the cabs glazed. Each has had the tender swapped for a Midland type and I've altered the top to look more like an NER type, and when the locos are moving across the front of a layout they look the part. The front one had its chip fitted in the cab, which offends me. I've hidden it with a home-made tarpaulin- just paper.
Each to their own strengths.
Les
PS Come and see these running at Grantham Railshow on the first weekend in September.
L
Love that cab sheet. Very North Eastern.
Quote from: Les1952 on July 14, 2014, 08:53:42 PM
I'm dyspraxic, which means I have difficulty seeing and reproducing straight lines. I also suffer from Repetitive Strain injury and my right wrist is in a splint for much of the time.
With these problems I can only admire the efforts of 2mm finescale modellers, and others who can make perfect little gems. However it is no use telling me that I can aspire to making such masterpieces- medically I will never be able to do so.
I can. however, paint, line and weather stock. I can also bodge conversions and I can build layouts that exhibition managers seem quite happy don't detract from the quality of their shows.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/44/thumb_14023.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=14023)
An example of bodging- a pair of UM J25s. Each has been chipped for me- I can't solder reliably to the accuracy needed not to melt a decoder. Each has had a repaint- the back one twice, someopne will remember an LNER J25 on Trevor Webster's Parnhams with the fireman sitting in the tender reading a newspaper. Each has been weathered and the cabs glazed. Each has had the tender swapped for a Midland type and I've altered the top to look more like an NER type, and when the locos are moving across the front of a layout they look the part. The front one had its chip fitted in the cab, which offends me. I've hidden it with a home-made tarpaulin- just paper.
Each to their own strengths.
Les
PS Come and see these running at Grantham Railshow on the first weekend in September.
L
That shot of that layout looks really familiar, have you sold stuff on eBay recently?
Chris
Quote from: Wingman mothergoose on July 15, 2014, 03:19:26 PM
That shot of that layout looks really familiar, have you sold stuff on eBay recently?
Chris
Yes- much of the stuff I wasn't going to convert to DCC or which didn't fit either the time period or the area. More to come in the Autumn. This bit of the layout is the easiest to take photos on, all I have to do is remember to switch the power off first....
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/44/thumb_14037.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=14037)
Another bodge, and less obvious. 60051 BLINK BONNY started out as a Lemberg, but has the tender from a Gladiateur to give a New Type tender behind banjo domed engine. More recently I've made a Gladiateur by renumbering a Scotsman- purchased from Dr Al on eBay, I'm sure he'll be horrified....
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/44/thumb_14038.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=14038)
All the very best
Les
Great work there Les! Never one to turn down the chance to see some A3s in action - even if they are in the wrong livery/period! ;) I've got a few to do myself, Humorist is a must in 1930's condition (double chimney and LNER livery!). I'm also tempted to try and backdate one into original Gresley A1 condition...
Crossed topics I know, but the only thing that really gives that Minitrix break composite away (other than the slightly faded look - prototypical) is the lack of the waist lining. Otherwise it really looks the part in front of those Dapol Gresleys. :D Did you repaint that one? If so cracking job!
Quote from: Atso on July 15, 2014, 11:35:31 PM
Great work there Les! Never one to turn down the chance to see some A3s in action - even if they are in the wrong livery/period! ;) I've got a few to do myself, Humorist is a must in 1930's condition (double chimney and LNER livery!). I'm also tempted to try and backdate one into original Gresley A1 condition...
Crossed topics I know, but the only thing that really gives that Minitrix break composite away (other than the slightly faded look - prototypical) is the lack of the waist lining. Otherwise it really looks the part in front of those Dapol Gresleys. :D Did you repaint that one? If so cracking job!
I did try to persuade Dave when he was still at Dapol that Humorist with double chimney in LNER green should be in batch three of the A3s, together with Manna, even if only to give him an excuse to say Dapol has goog Mannas.....
The brake is a Minitrix, repainted by my son (AKA Mr Simon). Somewhere he has another one or two Gresleys with brass sides and Dapol chassis, but in blood and custard. I will line it eventually- no coach lining in stock so it will have to wait until my next order from Fox.
More bodged A3s include one bought as an NQP from Dapol. I have reattached the dropped valve gear and araldited it in place, so it runs well. Originally a Flying Fox it has swapped its boiler with a Colorado. I replaced the single chimney with a whitemetal one from BHE, which is too thin, and the resultant loco represents Colorado as it was between getting a double chimney and acquiring blinkers and an A4 boiler. As it isn't a real NER allocated loco it is spare, in case another needs a replacement motor. The other hal;f of the swap is now 60088 Book Law.
Some of the A3s will be out at Grantham Railshow in September, the layout isn't big enough to run all nine......
All the very best.
Les
Les,
Such a shame that Humorist has so far not made an appearance with Dapol, an unusual member of the class in LNER days and one that could easily be done using Dapol's existing tooling. :(
Your son has a real talent at doing bits and pieces like that (I do follow him on RMWeb, especially when he models proper eras!). Actually, I think I met him briefly at TINGS a couple of years ago (doing demos on the N Gauge stand), unfortunately the penny didn't drop until I got home. Please pass on my best regards.
I've been looking at the potential of boiler swapping as I really would like a model of Flying Scotsman is c.1930's condition. My thoughts would be to take the Dapol Flying Scotsman and swap the boiler with Papyrus. I'd need to carefully file of the super heater covers and move the steam pipe to the other side of the boiler as a minimum. Luckily the A3's green seems to be a good match for Precision's 'LNER Doncaster Green' so some careful patching up of the paintwork should be possible. The bango domed boiler can then be mated with the rest of Papyrus to create Spearmint (which I think was the first of the last batch of A3s built). While I'm at it, I think I'll have the rivets off the smoke box door, fine for the BR era but not appropriate for LNER days (tooling restrictions, I'm guessing).
Going slightly off topic, it's interesting how Dapol's three LNER green classes all have a different shade of Green, even the newer batches. You'd have thought that they would have standardised on one colour by now... :worried:
Quote from: Atso on July 17, 2014, 12:43:31 AM
Going slightly off topic, it's interesting how Dapol's three LNER green classes all have a different shade of Green, even the newer batches. You'd have thought that they would have standardised on one colour by now... :worried:
Actually not that different from the real thing, depending on where the loco was painted/repainted the shades of green could differ quite a bit. And it wasn't uncommon for the paint to fade after a period of time.
Chris
Quote from: Wingman mothergoose on July 17, 2014, 08:34:55 AMActually not that different from the real thing, depending on where the loco was painted/repainted the shades of green could differ quite a bit. And it wasn't uncommon for the paint to fade after a period of time.
Chris
Chris, good point! A lot of the paints were mixed at the various works so colour shades could vary also, paint pigment wasn't the best back that so, as you say, faded quickly. Even so, I am left wondering about how this makes sense to an RTR manufacturer. Either way, this is taking things a long way off topic from the original post.
Back on topic, I've got another C11 chassis to 'bodge' into an LNER 2-6-0 tender type! :D
Quote from: Atso on July 17, 2014, 12:43:31 AM
Les,
Such a shame that Humorist has so far not made an appearance with Dapol, an unusual member of the class in LNER days and one that could easily be done using Dapol's existing tooling. :(
Your son has a real talent at doing bits and pieces like that (I do follow him on RMWeb, especially when he models proper eras!). Actually, I think I met him briefly at TINGS a couple of years ago (doing demos on the N Gauge stand), unfortunately the penny didn't drop until I got home. Please pass on my best regards.
I've been looking at the potential of boiler swapping as I really would like a model of Flying Scotsman is c.1930's condition. My thoughts would be to take the Dapol Flying Scotsman and swap the boiler with Papyrus. I'd need to carefully file of the super heater covers and move the steam pipe to the other side of the boiler as a minimum. Luckily the A3's green seems to be a good match for Precision's 'LNER Doncaster Green' so some careful patching up of the paintwork should be possible. The bango domed boiler can then be mated with the rest of Papyrus to create Spearmint (which I think was the first of the last batch of A3s built). While I'm at it, I think I'll have the rivets off the smoke box door, fine for the BR era but not appropriate for LNER days (tooling restrictions, I'm guessing).
Going slightly off topic, it's interesting how Dapol's three LNER green classes all have a different shade of Green, even the newer batches. You'd have thought that they would have standardised on one colour by now... :worried:
Yes, Simon does have talent- he gets his artistic sense from me and his ability to make something using it from his mother- dyspraxia if genetic hasn't gone down a generation. I was also on the stand that year at TINGS. I don't know whether you'll be released from TINGS this year long enough to do RMWeb Live at Coventry, but Simon is with me on Furtwangen Ost.
Release three of the A3s hasn't happened yet, though I did float Manna and Humorist with the new team also. Too late for me with Manna- another bodge of mine, this time just a straight renumbering but not reduced to full Gateshead grot. By the time I first got to talk with Dave about A3s the superheater header was already part of the boiler moulding, and although we talked about doing it, by then it was already too late to make it and the bits for right-hand drive separate parts. I was one of the very lucky few to see the CAD and the black prototype before it was announced. Have you managed to get the dome off a dapol A3 intact? I mangled the sigle chimney on Colorado trying to remove it to swap over, which is why I ended up with the whitemetal one.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/thumb_13052.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=13052)
Just a bit of a shame that the Jackson Evans nameplates aren't quite the same radius as the splashers, it allows glue to seep through the gap before it sets.
Thinking of bodging and bits- any market for 3D printed cab doors to fit standards? Talking to N-gauge Bob this morning he has the same problem as me, doors breaking off Dapol 9Fs, and other Standard tender engines not having them to start with. Or is it really something better bodged up using Evergreen strip?
All the very best
Les
Quote from: port perran on July 13, 2014, 09:17:45 AM
The thought of etched brass loco kits fills me with dread. I don't think I could ever make one. Let alone know where to start.
You start with the first one, then the second, then the third, and by about the fifth you are on a roll. At that point you unsolder 1-3 (or put them in a very hot oven while the wife is out) and rebuild them.
There are better things to start with - etched buildings, containers etc.
Alan
Quote from: EtchedPixels on July 24, 2014, 05:56:36 PM
(or put them in a very hot oven while the wife is out)
I never thought of putting my wife in a hot oven :angel: