just looked on Hattons, new stock, and a number of Dapol intercity exec 125 loco hauled carriages with buffers :hmmm:
so, Intercity 125 = HST :hmmm:
Intercity = locohauled :hmmm:
HST doesn't have buffers :hmmm:
so Intercity 125 can't be loco hauled and shouldn't have buffers >:(
does anyone at Dapol actually know what they are doing, or look at what they are producing :veryangry:
my 12 month old husky pup could do a better job :smiley-laughing:
Quite an old error this one, those coaches have been around for a while, so my guess is Hattons have obtained a quantity of unsold stock from somewhere rather than this mistake being perpetuated on a new run. If it is the new run it is worrying that an error on a previous batch has been repeated as it was quite vocally pointed out at the time, but given the pretty regular livery errors its hardly surprising that another one has crept in again.
Hi Class 37025... if you are not too fussy and still want these then Rails of Sheffield are selling them at £11.95 each and they are clearly described as a livery error on their web site....Still nice coaches at that money anyway.
Quote from: sparky on June 16, 2014, 08:07:10 PM
Hi Class 37025... if you are not too fussy and still want these then Rails of Sheffield are selling them at £11.95 each and they are clearly described as a livery error on their web site....Still nice coaches at that money anyway.
cheers, Sparky,
I know it's only a case of nipping the buffers off and you have the HST version, but lets be honest, you shouldn't need to.
think I'll email Hattons and see if it is a new run, or old stock.
cheers
alan
If it's old stock, I hope you make a public apology for your initial post & the title ...
Quote from: MikeDunn on June 16, 2014, 08:45:45 PM
If it's old stock, I hope you make a public apology for your initial post & the title ...
I most certainly will.
I have e-mailed Hattons about this, and await their reply, which I will add to this thread.
cheers
alan
:)
I think a few of us will be interested in whether this is an undiscovered pile of old stock or not ... especially given the RoS price ;)
acquired some of the cheap ones from rails to convert into the NMT, much cheaper than expected so in a way I applaud this error :)
just checked back on Hattons, and it looks like they've removed the coaches from the list.
only incorrect one showing at the moment is an Intercity 125 buffet loco hauled with buffers.
perhaps someone has read my email and taken them off awaiting a decision on what to do :hmmm:
so it looks like I MAY owe Dapol an apology, depending if these are a new run or old stock.
when I hear back from Hattons I'll post their reply on here.
cheers
alan
my mistake, they are still on there, on the listing for 10th June :-[
Hi, just got in from nights and checked my e-mails.
my original email to Hattons was as follows :
Hi,
just checked today's new stock and see you are listing a number of Dapol N mk 3
coaches in Intercity exec 125 scheme, noted as loco hauled and showing both the
125 in the lettering and buffers.
as you know HSTs were the 125 stock, and did not have buffers, and loco hauled
with buffers were Intercity not Intercity 125.
should these not be listed as livery errors and priced accordingly ?
I take it that this is yet another Dapol mistake, and I do not expect to pay
£19 for a coach and then either have to remove buffers to make it an HST
vehicle, or to have to T-cut the 125 off to make it a correct loco hauled
vehicle.
cheers
alan
The following response has been received :
Dear Alan,
Thanks for getting in touch and for the information you have provided.
None of our product specialist have started their day yet, but as soon as
they're in with us, I'll get one of them to confirm the error and amend the
listing accordingly.
I hope this helps but if you need any further assistance, please don't hesitate
to get in touch.
Kind regards,
Stephanie Martin
Retail Assistant
off to bed, but I'll post later with any follow up emails..cheers
alan
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Just checked my emails, and the following response from Hattons
"Hello
We have checked descriptions as best we can, and have amended certain words in
those descriptions.
Dapol MK3 coaches with or without buffers have always had the same price
structure.
I hope this information helps.
Once again our apologies for some errors in our descriptions.
Kind regards,
John Etheridge
Retail Specialist"
still doesn't answer the question of whether this is a new run with the same faults, or a new stock of the old run.
just checked their site and the Intercity 125 lettered with buffers are still at £19. looks like RoS are being a bit more realistic in their description and price.
so....
Sorry Dapol, looks like it must be old run that they've just got hold of ........
unless of course anyone else knows different :hmmm:
Update ..
just had a long 'chat' with Hattons, and the relevant bit of the chat is
"Our Products Manager has had a look into this and he said that this is a product error by Dapol and we are aware of this however we are unable to reduce the price of these items at the moment. This has been looked into by our Retail Manager as well and we will be talking to Dapol about it "
so watch their site to see if they do follow RoS and reduce their price.
cheers
alan
So ... ... ... is this a new batch with the same error or an old batch they've received / dug out of the deepest recesses of the warehouse ?
I don't know, I did ask this in my initial email to Hattons, but didn't get a reply.
the only way I can think of working it out is if someone knows the carriage numbers of the other faulty batch, and compares them with the numbers on this lot.
it does not answer the question why they cannot reduce their price, but RoS can, and has.
looks like an ongoing thing to watch.
Hattons did reduce some Dapol mk.3 blue & grey coaches some time ago for incorrect lettering, but I couldn't find anything wrong with any of the ones I got :D
Disappointing but it does raise the question as to what is faulty goods and what is just minor errors. I guess Hattons managers have to figure it out with Dapol.
:-[ Er, before you shout too loudly 37025 perhaps you should check the numbers of the vehicles modelled?
Although HSTs generally did not have buffers fitted there were few sets converted by BR ER to carry buffing gear and most of these finished up in the Virgin fleet after the Kings X Edinburgh electrification.
There are some still around in the Cross Country fleet.
Quote from: D1042 Western Princess on June 17, 2014, 08:21:56 PM
:-[ Er, before you shout too loudly 37025 perhaps you should check the numbers of the vehicles modelled?
Although HSTs generally did not have buffers fitted there were few sets converted by BR ER to carry buffing gear and most of these finished up in the Virgin fleet after the Kings X Edinburgh electrification.
There are some still around in the Cross Country fleet.
fine, but my point is that some of these have Intercity 125 lettering, are noted as loco hauled, and have buffers.
and Hattons, and RoS, have both stated these are incorrect.
so while I take on board your comment re ones converted to have buffing gear, IMHO that is not relevant to the original complaint.
all the following have the 125 lettering, and are listed as 'Intercity Executive 125'
1st class loco hauled 11011
1st class loco hauled 11025
2nd class loco hauled 12029
2nd class loco hauled 12061
2nd class loco hauled 12128
perhaps you could advise us if these were correctly lettered, if they are part of the converted batch you refer to.
as an aside, Hattons seem to have made changes to the listings for these, but that does not explain the 125 lettering.
cheers
alan
Sorry then Alan, you know the models better than me. But all I'm saying is that some HSTs did run in BR Blue on the ER with buffers.
However I accept that the models may be inaccurate.
didn't know that.
were they used with locos and DVTs, with the 'HST' wiring being used to transmit the control signals from the DVT to loco ?
there were other anomalies, I saw a photo of a class 43 power car with a mk.3 sleeper attached :hmmm: best guess would be that was a cl43 that had had normal buffing gear fitted for some reason.
cheers
alan
So is this a case of them continuing to get it wrong rather than a new mistake?
Seems to me that Dapol are manufacturing some of their poorer models without changing the tooling, simply to re-coup earlier investment. I'd love a 2MT tank and a 9F, but given I've had several of each before, all of which have been returned, I won't be tempted again, unless and until they improve the chassis and other (well documented) errors.
Cheers
Dave
I want to buy some Mk3s in early 80s livery but the Dapol ones seem to have the door open light on the otuside, albeit painted the same colour as the coach. Can some advise when these lights and door locking were added to Mk3 coaches?
Hi
The numbers quoted are certainly the same as on the coaches I bought from Rails and "converted" (rubbed of the 125, moved the 1st Class symbol and painted out the door light) to Loco hauled stock.
All covered in an earlier thread, see below
Have Dapol really repeated the error, surely not, must be old or returned stock.
Ray
Dapol Mk3 Livery Error
« on: December 09, 2013, 01:29:34 pm »
Quote
Modify
Remove
Rails of Sheffield have an interesting set of 5 Dapol Intercity Executive Mk3 Loco Hauled Coaches avaiable to pre order at £12= each.
Price reduction is due to a Livery Error, they are:
First # 11011 & 11025
Second # 12009, 12061 & 12128
The wording on the side is InterCity 125 whilst the colours appear to be Intercity of some sort.
If colours are correct, how easy would it to be to remove the wording or maybe just the 125? Any guidance on this would be much appreciated.
This topic getting more complicated than JFK
assassination stories.
Unless JFK was into HST trains.
Lost the thread about X posts back !
Quote from: D1042 Western Princess on June 17, 2014, 08:50:55 PM
Sorry then Alan, you know the models better than me. But all I'm saying is that some HSTs did run in BR Blue on the ER with buffers.
However I accept that the models may be inaccurate.
Only the power cars had buffing gear fitted, and to the leading end of the power car only. These were converted due to the late arrival of the mk4 DVT fleet and operated with the then new class 91, not as the HST. When the DVTs were delivered this released the buffered power cars back into the HST fleet. At no point did the HST mk3 coaches receive buffers (indeed, the mk4 stock does not have them either). The only HST mk3 coaches to carry buffers were those of the prototype set.
Quote from: Zunnan on June 18, 2014, 12:09:43 AM
Quote from: D1042 Western Princess on June 17, 2014, 08:50:55 PM
Sorry then Alan, you know the models better than me. But all I'm saying is that some HSTs did run in BR Blue on the ER with buffers.
However I accept that the models may be inaccurate.
Only the power cars had buffing gear fitted, and to the leading end of the power car only. These were converted due to the late arrival of the mk4 DVT fleet and operated with the then new class 91, not as the HST. When the DVTs were delivered this released the buffered power cars back into the HST fleet. At no point did the HST mk3 coaches receive buffers (indeed, the mk4 stock does not have them either). The only HST mk3 coaches to carry buffers were those of the prototype set.
HST trailer car stock doesn't need buffing gear as they are 'rigid' push/pull train formations coupled with Alliance Buckeye couplers. Loco hauled MK3 coaches DO have buffers though!(and a lot of hauled MK3 stock had them removed when they were converted to HST coaches a few years ago)
The buffered HST power cars were used as DVT's and were unpowered, but they weren't around in blue/grey days, they were liveried in InterCity executive livery.
Chris
Quote from: Zakalwe on June 16, 2014, 10:14:36 PM
acquired some of the cheap ones from rails to convert into the NMT, much cheaper than expected so in a way I applaud this error :)
Likewise, I'm happy! I'll be totally honest I'd not have noticed if it wasn't pointed out!
Just a daft question...
Weren't a few TGS coaches fitted with buffers as well as the buffered power cars for use with the class 91 loco's due to the Mk4 coaches not being ready in time? I believe that they would have been executive or swallow livery though and definitely not blue/grey.
Cheers
Mark
EDIT: some TGS coaches were buffer fitted at one end..
http://www.125group.org.uk/index.php?module=htmlpages&func=display&pid=7 (http://www.125group.org.uk/index.php?module=htmlpages&func=display&pid=7)
Cheers
Mark