Not totally sure why I'm posting this as I'm fairly sure I know what the problems may be but feel free to comment.
Tonight I ran the second of my locos and its rolling stock to test my track laying. Had already tested every part of it with several different loco's engine light and made a few adjustments. Tried a GF class 66 with 5 pairs of intermodal wagons. This is where the air started to turn blue.
Lots of derailments in various places and the wagons separating themselves. The reasons? Possibly some track not laid evenly. One end of layout has set track curves. Are couplings to short? Are buffers becoming entangled. Does the drawbar on intermodals cause problems? Wondered when I bought them if the small wheels would cause problems.
Tried adding some weight spaced out along the rake - in the containers. No improvement. Have a feeling I might be buying some tracksetta and relaying some track :NGaugersRule:
If you look along the track does it kink left or right where there are joins? If it isn't continuously smooth and if points are not in line with the rail before them there really isn't any point in trying to live with it. Tracksettas, especially the straight one to use to join rail to points, are an absolute bargain for what they do
Yep, agree with that. An eye level squint along the track is the best tool for picking up irregularities.
Not running modern long wheelbase stock, I am no expert, but I suspect setrack curves could be problematic.
My prized Blue Pullman derails 1 out of 4 passes of a really tight curve on my layout, but it is being pushed as well as pulled!
It doesn't worry me as my mainline is not complete and the only place the BP can stretch it's legs at the moment is the branch!
I had a derailment with one of my loco's and could not work out what it was then I ran it extra slow and the problem was a fish plate sticking out, it was soon rectified tith a pair of pliers.
Interesting, and something to watch out for!
Good info! :thumbsup:
I had an issue where one of the rails had popped out of the last sleeper so the rails spread slightly wider where it joined the next one (a point as it happens). Quite hard to see but caused a lot of trouble...
You are correct! With Code 80 Peco track, of which I have a lot, I found that the rail popping out of the soft plastic chairs was a common source of frustration when I think back all those years.
Yet another thing to vector in to the equation as to uneven track!
I have no experience with Peco Code 55, but understand that it is held down deep within the plastic sleeper base by it's cross-section, so maybe this is not such a problem any more.
Very good point of information, LP. Thanks for posting.
But for rails to pop out of the sleepers don't you have to be forcing an unnatural kink to make a joint? This would be problem enough to cause a derailment even if the sleeper held fast.
There are quite a lot of layouts on the pages of one of the mags (BRM?) which show small photos of "My Layout" where points are forced into joins at crazy angles. This must feel wrong when you are laying track but apparently it can't.
I have found the NewportNobby advice to have a straight no matter how short before a point priceless. It should be printed on the packaging of all new points.
Have you checked the wagon wheels for back to back spacing?
Knowing how bad this is with some models its well worth getting a back to back gauge. (mine came from Osbornes)
Quote from: ParkeNd on March 10, 2014, 09:07:17 AM
But for rails to pop out of the sleepers don't you have to be forcing an unnatural kink to make a joint? This would be problem enough to cause a derailment even if the sleeper held fast.
No. An unnatural kink is not necessary for Code 80 rails to come adrift from Peco plastic chairs. Unless the track is laid carefully and joined carefully, even on straight sections, I can assure you that Code 80 rail will pop out of that last chair on that last sleeper very easily. Simply joining two sections of flexible track dead straight will cause this to happen when you are trying to get the dreaded fishplates into position.
Unless somebody knows a trick that I don't.
Quote from: ParkeNd on March 10, 2014, 09:07:17 AM
I have found the NewportNobby advice to have a straight no matter how short before a point priceless. It should be printed on the packaging of all new points.
Not sure how that got attributed to me as I certainly don't adhere to that principle on my layout but hey, if it works for everyone, I'll take it :D
Like others have said, Dave, my thoughts turn to fishplates not completing a smooth joint between pieces of track thus causing a 'lump' which may explain derailments and uncoupling.
:thankyousign: guys,
Lots to work on and I'll try and remember them when I'm rectifying or more than likely re-laying track.
Does anyone know, from experience what the minimum radius curves intermodal wagons are 'happy' on?
:thankyousign: again.
Dave
I'd say 2nd radius minimum for intermodal wagons (10 3/8" if I've remembered it right).
Thanks Mike,
I think I'll try and go for an even bigger radii where I can but I can now see where my biggest problem is. My set track curves form a semi circle at one end of the layout so there is sideways pull on the wagons as they get to the centre of the curve. I know what the radius of a circle is but can you tell me how this is applied to track. What is the 10 3/8" please. Excuse my ignorance. What I really mean is how would I lay flexi track without a tracksetta as I can't wait for them to arrive from the UK.
Thanks
Dave
Might be worth looking at the waggons, my farish intermodal derails a lot while nothing else does, my intermodal lives on a siding till I get round to looking at it
Michael,
Haven't had problems with other long wheelbase wagons and carriages so I'm thinking its a combination of small wheels, irregular track and the half circle of set track curves.
Dave
Dave, it is possible to lay flexible track on a curve without a tracksetta - it once again comes down to eyeballing it both from above and from track level, and taking your time. If it is double track, check clearances with two of your longest coaches or wagons. I do not own a tracksetta!
However, having said that, it could be best to wait until you acquire one - knowing what I know now, if I had my time over I would have used one.
Hindsight is a wonderful but often useless thing!
Bealman,
Perhaps your right. By the time I figure out a partial new track plan the tracksettas will have arrived. You are also right about hindsight but I get a crick in my neck constantly looking behind me!
Dave
:laughabovepost: :laughabovepost:
You and me both, mate.
Cheers, George
If like me you used 9mm ply for your base, offcuts can be used to wedge between the rails to hold them straight until the copydex dries!
Quote from: Espantrainfan on March 10, 2014, 10:28:14 PM
Thanks Mike,
I think I'll try and go for an even bigger radii where I can but I can now see where my biggest problem is. My set track curves form a semi circle at one end of the layout so there is sideways pull on the wagons as they get to the centre of the curve. I know what the radius of a circle is but can you tell me how this is applied to track. What is the 10 3/8" please. Excuse my ignorance. What I really mean is how would I lay flexi track without a tracksetta as I can't wait for them to arrive from the UK.
Thanks
Dave
Hi Dave ! Make a cardboard template, Peco setrack No2 radius is 10 3/8 inches or 263.5mm (Sorry I should of put that in my first reply... :doh:).
What can help is if you're using flexi track start the curve gently and progressively get tighter, and then do the same on the exit. That will reduce the sudden change from straight to curve which can upset some wagons.
We've had problems with Farish intermodals derailing on a club layout, on which everything else runs fine. I haven't spent much time trying to find a solution, but we did try adding some weight to the wagons which seemed to make things somewhat better. I always make sure I don't run them when I'm operating.
Quote from: Espantrainfan on March 11, 2014, 02:10:26 AM
Bealman,
Perhaps your right. By the time I figure out a partial new track plan the tracksettas will have arrived. You are also right about hindsight but I get a crick in my neck constantly looking behind me!
Dave
Ordering your Tracksettas was a good move. Especially if you have also ordered the 10" straight. They are not just for bending track - they are invaluable for maintaining alignment when joining two pieces of track. No amount of squinting along track will help with this - only expose where you haven't quite got it right. The straight one is actually the most useful IMHO. No piece of flexitrack is ever straight in the box as running one of these down a piece of flexi will show. It also makes lining points up with flexi very reliable.
Considering how cheap they are and how well they work, not buying them is for skinflints.
:thankyousign: again all for your input. I managed to figure out the 'footprint' of 3rd radius curves with the figures and diaframs :laugh: in a settrack book and then to see how they would fit on my board used a nail, piece of string and a pencil. I will of course use tracksettas when I lay the track.
Still working on revised track plan so I don't have a semicircle to go back the other way. I'm thinking of having sections of straight track between sections of 3rd radius curves. Would this work? If so what length/ratio is advised.
I want my container yard to be 'drive through'(?) but If I can't fit it in it might have to be a cul de sac with run around loop. You can see I'm really up on the railway terminology can't you!
Left the dia bolical error above. Just to see if it amused anyone else besides me
Dave
Mike W,
What radius curves are they on your club layout. Do you have problems with the intermodals on the curves. What do you think to placing straights into long curves. Your opinion or anyone elses opinion or experiences would be appreciated.
Dave
No problems at all with long curves joined by Tracksettas - you can't even see where the joins are. Likewise with straights joining curves - just run the curved Tracksetta up to about four inches from the end of the curve - then overlap a straight Tracksetta from the straight into about two inches of the curve. Connect via rail joiners, and put track pins in through the slots in the Tracksettas. Take the Tracksettas out.
simple tip , N track will fit inside 00 track , so why not use this combination upside down to lay straight track in long length's in one go ?
same for curves , but smallest will be 18" rad
alan
Quote from: ParkeNd on March 15, 2014, 07:00:36 PM
No problems at all with long curves joined by Tracksettas - you can't even see where the joins are. Likewise with straights joining curves - just run the curved Tracksetta up to about four inches from the end of the curve - then overlap a straight Tracksetta from the straight into about two inches of the curve. Connect via rail joiners, and put track pins in through the slots in the Tracksettas. Take the Tracksettas out.
Something else you have taught me :thankyousign: