I started up the RTR version of this thread and found that it was pretty successful. More research for that lead to finding more and more wagon kits, so although I'm not particularly familiar with what's available, I thought I'd start off this thread with a few kits that I've found:
NGS Cat No NGK003, LMS 10T Outside-Framed Box Van, Diagram ? Built ? Ex-Midland Railway Diagram D362.
Alternative numbering: 3158, 3906
NGS Cat No NGK018, LMS 12T Vented Box Van, Diagram 1676, Built 1924-28. Also comes with a non-vented version.
Alternative numbering: 91548, 117870
NGS Cat No NGK018, LMS 12T Non-Vented Box Van, Diagram 1664, Built 1924-26. Comes with vented version.
Alternative numbering: 93847, 235849
NGS Cat No NGK021, SR 12T Box Van, Diagrams 1428/29, & 1452/55/58, Built 1929-c.1950?. The kit builds three different versions of the SR standard 10' wb 12T box van: even-planked on standard RCH 9' wb chassis (Diagram 1429, from 1929); even-planked and uneven-planked on a 10' wb chassis, all vacuum-fitted (Diagram 1458, 1936-39); 2+2-planked, unfitted (handbrake only) and vacuum-fitted (vb) (Diagram 1455, 1939-45); plywood-bodied, all (hb) (Diagram 1452, 1945-51); all remaining (hb) vans were fitted with (vb) after 1956. Some vans to SR Diagram 1458 were also built c.1944 for the LMS (some had 2+2 doors): LMS Diagram 2078 (apparently). Some vans to SR Diagram 1455 were also built in 1943 as GWR Diagram V35. Some Diagram 1452 vans built after Nationalisation appeared with B-prefixed numbers (BR Diagram 1/202).
Alternative numbering: Diagram 1428 (1929-1936) - 47491, 48323; Diagram 1458 (1936-39) - 47001-100, 48277-322, 49140-67/69-230; Diagram 1455 (1939-45) - 44719-988, 54001-250 (hb) and 49427-951, 64921-5280 (vb); Diagram 1452 (1945-51) - 50901-1000, 51351-400, 54251-500, 56501-7010. LMS Diagram 2078 (c.1944) - M523xxx series. GWR Diagram V35 (1943) - W144xxx series. BR Diagram 1/202 (Post-1948) - B752354-753029 series.
P&D Marsh Cat No A501, SR 12T 1 Plank Fixed Side Stone Truck, Diagram 1308, Built 1892-1910.
Alternative numbering: 7570, 7583
P&D Marsh Cat No A502, LMS ??T Bolster Wagon, Diagram ? Built ?
Alternative numbering: ?
P&D Marsh Cat No A553, SR 10T Twin Vent Van, Diagram 1429, Built 1926-1947.
Alternative numbering: 44611, 52783
Ultima Cat No LSW62, SR 10T High Ended Open Wagon, Diagram 1309, Built LSWR 1881. A four plank round-ended wagon. Many were built in the 1870s-1890s and then scrapped, to be replaced by a wagon of the same diagram but with later features (such as different axleboxes) but bearing exactly the same running number. At least 2726 were taken into SR services, although many were scrapped in the mid and late 1920s. Some examples survived into BR days. although often with the rounded ends removed.
Alternative numbering: Between 435 & 5071, & 6424/25/29, 7180-99, 7202-21/79-7378, 7563/64/67/69 inclusive
As you can see, there are a few gaps in the information, and I'm sure that a lot more could be added.
The RTR version of this thread can be found here: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=19401.0 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=19401.0)
Peter
And here's more kits, from Gramodels, who supply very few details in their catalogue:
Gramodels Cat No WN05, SR 8/10T Ventilated Meat Van Diagram 1481 Built LSWR c.1891-1912. Vacuum pipes should be added to this diagram.
Alternative running numbers: 51001-9/11-14/16-28/30-33/3537/39/40/42/44/45/51/53-56/60/62/64/67-69/72-74/76-84/86-51103/5-8/11-16/18-25/27-44 (all 8T), 51157 (10T)
Gramodels Cat No WN06, SR 10T Insulated Goods Van Diagram 1410 Built LSWR 1885-1904. A mixture of timber and steel underframes and with low roof.
Alternative running numbers: Between 42281 & 43899, & 43930-44106/19-38/54-44228/72-74 inclusive
Gramodels Cat No WN12, SR 10T Cattle Wagon Diagram ? Built LSWR ?
Alternative running numbers: ?
Gramodels Cat No WN15, SR 10T Ventilated Butter Van Diagram 1410 Built LSWR 1885-1904. Southern Wagons Vol 1 suggests this should be Diagram 1413 but the specifications are almost entirely identical anyway. Timber underframe, low roof (except 43925, with steel underframe).
Alternative running numbers: (Diagram 1413) 43900-15/17-29
Gramodels Cat No WN16, SR 12T Low Machine Well Wagon Diagram 1673 Built LSWR 1921.
Alternative running numbers: 61009/11-13/19
Gramodels Cat No WN01, SR 12/15T 8 Plank Wagon Diagram 1316 Built LSWR/SR 1904-25. Version 1. Only the last batch of 100 in 1925 had timber underframes and a capacity of 12T.
Alternative running numbers: 7987-9078, 9079-9128 (Ex-LSWR), 9141-9340 (SR)
Gramodels Cat No WN02, SR 12/15T 8 Plank Wagon Diagram 1316 Built LSWR/SR 1904-25. Version 2. Only the last batch of 100 in 1925 had timber underframes and a capacity of 12T.
Alternative running numbers: 7987-9078, 9079-9128 (Ex-LSWR), 9141-9340 (SR)
Gramodels Cat No WN03, SR 12/15T 8 Plank Wagon Diagram 1316 Built LSWR/SR 1904-25. Version 1 sheeted. Only the last batch of 100 in 1925 had timber underframes and a capacity of 12T.
Alternative running numbers: 7987-9078, 9079-9128 (Ex-LSWR), 9141-9340 (SR)
Gramodels Cat No WN04, SR 12/15T 8 Plank Wagon Diagram 1316 Built LSWR/SR 1904-25. Version 2 sheeted. Only the last batch of 100 in 1925 had timber underframes and a capacity of 12T.
Alternative running numbers: 7987-9078, 9079-9128 (Ex-LSWR), 9141-9340 (SR)
Gramodels Cat No WN07, SR 12/15T 8 Plank Wagon Diagram 1316 Built LSWR/SR 1904-25. Open Version 1 with sheet rail. Only the last batch of 100 in 1925 had timber underframes and a capacity of 12T.
Alternative running numbers: 7987-9078, 9079-9128 (Ex-LSWR), 9141-9340 (SR)
Gramodels Cat No WN08, SR 12/15T 8 Plank Wagon Diagram 1316 Built LSWR/SR 1904-25. Open Version 2 with sheet rail. Only the last batch of 100 in 1925 had timber underframes and a capacity of 12T.
Alternative running numbers: 7987-9078, 9079-9128 (Ex-LSWR), 9141-9340 (SR)
Gramodels Cat No WN09, SR 12/15T 8 Plank Wagon Diagram 1316 Built LSWR/SR 1904-25. Version 1 with steel end-posts. Only the last batch of 100 in 1925 had timber underframes and a capacity of 12T.
Alternative running numbers: 7987-9078, 9079-9128 (Ex-LSWR), 9141-9340 (SR)
Gramodels Cat No WN10, SR 12/15T 8 Plank Wagon Diagram 1316 Built LSWR/SR 1904-25. Version 2 with steel end-posts. Only the last batch of 100 in 1925 had timber underframes and a capacity of 12T.
Alternative running numbers: 7987-9078, 9079-9128 (Ex-LSWR), 9141-9340 (SR)
Much of the identification has very kindly been provided by Graham of Gramodels.
Quote from: Pete33 on February 17, 2014, 05:03:07 PM
Ultima Cat No LSW82, SR ??T High Ended Open Wagon, Diagram ?, Built LSWR 1881.
Alternative numbering: ?
I'm not aware of any SR diagram number, or indeed if they lasted that long.
Quote from: EtchedPixels on February 17, 2014, 08:27:37 PM
I'm not aware of any SR diagram number, or indeed if they lasted that long.
I think I found it. SR Diagram 1309, which covered a multitude of minor variations in axlebox, brakes, and sheet rails (or lack of). Built between 1870s-1910s, with older wagons often being scrapped and replaced by almost identical wagons with minor variations. At least 2726 were taken into SR service, although many were scrapped in the later 1920s.
I have at least one photograph dated to 1935 (in An Illustrated History of Southern Wagons Vol 1). The Ultima four-plank model would seem to match this diagram about as accurately as I can make out (the Ultima photo is a little small on this monitor, so it's hard to be any more certain).
Quote from: Pete33 on February 17, 2014, 09:25:36 PM
Quote from: EtchedPixels on February 17, 2014, 08:27:37 PM
I'm not aware of any SR diagram number, or indeed if they lasted that long.
I think I found it. SR Diagram 1309, which covered a multitude of minor variations in axlebox, brakes, and sheet rails (or lack of). Built between 1870s-1910s, with older wagons often being scrapped and replaced by almost identical wagons with minor variations. At least 2726 were taken into SR service, although many were scrapped in the later 1920s.
I have at least one photograph dated to 1935 (in An Illustrated History of Southern Wagons Vol 1). The Ultima four-plank model would seem to match this diagram about as accurately as I can make out (the Ultima photo is a little small on this monitor, so it's hard to be any more certain).
The way to be sure is to check the end framing. That batch of wagons is almost unique in that the framing for the ends is on the outside of the wagon and the sides extend to the end of the framing.
Quote from: Pete33 on February 17, 2014, 05:08:31 PM
And here's one more kit for now:
Gramodels Cat No 00414, SR ??T Covered Goods Van, Diagram 1410, Built ?
Alternative running numbers: ?
Pete,
This one is an 4mm/OO kit. The Gramodels 2mm/N kits are in the Cat No range WN01 through to WN17. Not enough information in the catalog to identify them.
Nick
Quote from: Gooner1953 on February 18, 2014, 09:52:53 AM
This one is an 4mm/OO kit. The Gramodels 2mm/N kits are in the Cat No range WN01 through to WN17. Not enough information in the catalog to identify them.
Thanks, Nick. Not quite sure how I misread that list, but I've made corrections now. Actually, there are even more questions to answer now!
Quote from: EtchedPixels on February 17, 2014, 11:16:14 PM
The way to be sure is to check the end framing. That batch of wagons is almost unique in that the framing for the ends is on the outside of the wagon and the sides extend to the end of the framing.
Probably the only way to be sure is to check the line drawings against the model. The book contains the line drawings, but I don't have the model (yet, at least).
Quote from: Pete33 on February 18, 2014, 12:22:38 PM
Thanks, Nick. Not quite sure how I misread that list, but I've made corrections now. Actually, there are even more questions to answer now!
Well they're all ex LSWR, that's the starting point! I've got all the models but must admit that they are difficult to identify against An Illustrated History of Southern Wagons Vol 1 which is really all there is available in book form for ex-LSWR stock. Could always ask Graham Baker if has the LSWR diagram numbers....
Nick
Quote from: Pete33 on February 17, 2014, 05:03:07 PM
NGS Cat No NGK021, SR 12T Box Van, Diagram 1428/29 (Even Planking), Built ?
Alternative numbering: 47491, 48323
NGS Cat No NGK021, SR 12T Box Van, Diagram 1428/29 (Uneven Planking), Built ?
Alternative numbering: 49427
NGS kit NGK21 builds three different versions of the SR standard 10' wb 12T box van; construction started in 1929 with ones built on the standard RCH 9' wb chassis (Diagram 1429, even-planked). From 1936, the standard vans were built on a 10' wb chassis.
Diagram 1458 (built 1936-39) even-planked, all vacuum-fitted, possible numbers include 47001-100, 48277-322, 49140-67/69-230
Diagram 1455 (built 1939-45) 2+2-planked, unfitted (handbrake only) and vacuum-fitted (vb), numbers include 44719-988, 54001-250 (hb) and 49427-951, 64921-5280 (vb).
Diagram 1452 (built 1945-51) plywood-bodied, all (hb), possible numbers include 50901-1000, 51351-400, 54251-500, 56501-7010.
All remaining (hb) vans were fitted with (vb) after 1956.
Info taken from NGK21 kit notes.
Some vans to SR Diag.1458 were also built c1944 for the LMS (some had 2+2 doors); LMS diagram appears to be no. 2078. They carried numbers in the M523xxx series.
Some vans to SR Diag.1455 were also built in 1943 for the GWR; GWR diagram V35, number series W144xxx.
Some of the Diag.1452 vans built after nationalisation (BR Diag.1/202) appeared with B-prefixed numbers in BR number series B752354-3029.
Quote from: Gooner1953 on February 18, 2014, 12:34:35 PM
Quote from: Pete33 on February 18, 2014, 12:22:38 PM
Thanks, Nick. Not quite sure how I misread that list, but I've made corrections now. Actually, there are even more questions to answer now!
Well they're all ex LSWR, that's the starting point! I've got all the models but must admit that they are difficult to identify against An Illustrated History of Southern Wagons Vol 1 which is really all there is available in book form for ex-LSWR stock. Could always ask Graham Baker if has the LSWR diagram numbers....
Nick
I think we're actually going to struggle to identify the Gramodels wagons and then track them through to SR days and beyond, if they got that far. Gramodels actually list 8 versions of the ex-LSWR 12/15 ton open as opposed to just the 2 versions Pete has listed above. When I asked Graham to clarify what all the 8 versions of open 12/15T wagons were he replied -
"With LSWR wagons of that capacity they were built randomly with wood end posts or steel and the top door was either fitted with straight hinges or crossed ones. The models reflect the range. The sheeted wagons have exposed ends of either steel or wooden end posts. It means that it's possible to have a rake of 10 or 12 wagons and they all be different."
I'm not even going to attempt to find diagram and running numbers for that lot in LSWR days never mind SR times if they made it that far!
Nick
Quote from: Gooner1953 on February 18, 2014, 12:34:35 PM
Well they're all ex LSWR, that's the starting point! I've got all the models but must admit that they are difficult to identify against An Illustrated History of Southern Wagons Vol 1 which is really all there is available in book form for ex-LSWR stock. Could always ask Graham Baker if has the LSWR diagram numbers....
Coincidentally that's the only wagon-identification book I have!
Email sent to Graham. Fingers crossed that I get a detailed reply.
Quote from: talisman56 on February 18, 2014, 12:45:03 PM
NGS kit NGK21 builds three different versions of the SR standard 10' wb 12T box van; construction started in 1929 with ones built on the standard RCH 9' wb chassis (Diagram 1429, even-planked). From 1936, the standard vans were built on a 10' wb chassis.
Thanks very much for that. Only the 1929 even planked SR vans are valid for me, but I'll add everything to the list for everyone else.
Quote from: Pete33 on February 18, 2014, 03:53:21 PM
Quote from: talisman56 on February 18, 2014, 12:45:03 PM
NGS kit NGK21 builds three different versions of the SR standard 10' wb 12T box van; construction started in 1929 with ones built on the standard RCH 9' wb chassis (Diagram 1429, even-planked). From 1936, the standard vans were built on a 10' wb chassis.
Thanks very much for that. Only the 1929 even planked SR vans are valid for me, but I'll add everything to the list for everyone else.
The 1929 vans were on a 9' chassis and only had one vent in each end, so the NGS kit will need a bit of fettling if it were used as the basis for those.
HTH
Quote from: Gooner1953 on February 18, 2014, 12:46:34 PM
I think we're actually going to struggle to identify the Gramodels wagons and then track them through to SR days and beyond, if they got that far. Gramodels actually list 8 versions of the ex-LSWR 12/15 ton open as opposed to just the 2 versions Pete has listed above. When I asked Graham to clarify what all the 8 versions of open 12/15T wagons were he replied -
"With LSWR wagons of that capacity they were built randomly with wood end posts or steel and the top door was either fitted with straight hinges or crossed ones. The models reflect the range. The sheeted wagons have exposed ends of either steel or wooden end posts. It means that it's possible to have a rake of 10 or 12 wagons and they all be different."
I'm not even going to attempt to find diagram and running numbers for that lot in LSWR days never mind SR times if they made it that far!
You beat me to it. Is it safe to assume that they're all high ended wagons if they're LSWR models?
I think I'll have to try a few and see which diagrams they match up best to when I see them. They are certainly valid for my period, so I'll add them to the wish list.
Quote from: Pete33 on February 18, 2014, 04:18:10 PM
You beat me to it. Is it safe to assume that they're all high ended wagons if they're LSWR models?
I think I'll have to try a few and see which diagrams they match up best to when I see them. They are certainly valid for my period, so I'll add them to the wish list.
No Pete, I've got the full Gramodels set and just to confuse you they're all conventional square flat ends!
I've had an attempt at trying to identify them from Vol 1 of the Southern Wagons Book and it's impossible, there is just not enough information about the wagons that Gramodels have produced and there are too many possibilities in the book. Any diagram and /or running numbers that I was to come up with would be pure guesswork. I've just accepted the fact that they are ex-LSWR, as stated by Graham, and likely to have lasted into SR and early BR days, a sort of Rule #1. Unless Graham comes back to you with an LSWR Diagram number.
Nick
Quote from: Gooner1953 on February 18, 2014, 05:41:50 PM
No Pete, I've got the full Gramodels set and just to confuse you they're all conventional square flat ends!
I've had an attempt at trying to identify them from Vol 1 of the Southern Wagons Book and it's impossible, there is just not enough information about the wagons that Gramodels have produced and there are too many possibilities in the book. Any diagram and /or running numbers that I was to come up with would be pure guesswork. I've just accepted the fact that they are ex-LSWR, as stated by Graham, and likely to have lasted into SR and early BR days, a sort of Rule #1. Unless Graham comes back to you with an LSWR Diagram number.
Nick
Thanks for confirmation. It's a shame they're not rounded ends. I think they look more picturesque! Even so, they're still very valid for my period so I'll be sure to get a set in time. Perhaps you'd like to post a photo of each type... for the record, you understand. ;)
If Graham does get in touch with further details then I'll let you know.
Like this 8)
(http://www.ultima-models.co.uk/catalogue/images/LSW62-view.jpg)
that one is etched fold up and glued but I've seen some of the other rounded end variants modelled very convincingly from a similar flat ended open (eg the Mathieson ones) with the ends built up using plasticard. The Mathieson wagons are also more appropriate as they model the earlier RCH style with 14' 6 interior space so are shorter than the Peco wagons and more typical of early wagon lengths with the wheels visibly closer to the wagon ends.
Also useful of course is the fact the wagons are planked which means they effectively come with cutting marks if you need to lower the height first >:D
The one that's a right PITA is modelling dumb buffers because the solebars are overwide on almost all RTR and kit wagons in order to allow for the big fat N gauge wheels, the plastic thickness needed and the long 15mm axles.
The Mathieson ones are better but still a bit wide, and as the dumb buffers should usually extend through the line of the solebars it's a bit obvious. I ended up using 2mmSA conversion axles for dumb buffered wagons.
Alan
Quote from: EtchedPixels on February 19, 2014, 01:01:59 AM
Like this 8)
(http://www.ultima-models.co.uk/catalogue/images/LSW62-view.jpg)
that one is etched fold up and glued but I've seen some of the other rounded end variants modelled very convincingly from a similar flat ended open (eg the Mathieson ones) with the ends built up using plasticard. The Mathieson wagons are also more appropriate as they model the earlier RCH style with 14' 6 interior space so are shorter than the Peco wagons and more typical of early wagon lengths with the wheels visibly closer to the wagon ends.
Definitely like that. :) A picture says a thousand words.
I hadn't thought about the Mathieson wagons when it came to customisation, but of course they do look better than the Peco versions. I have a few here in PO liveries, and the shorter body length is very apparent.
I definitely have no plans to do dumb buffers, though. Weren't they all replaced by the time of the Grouping, or thereabouts?
Quote from: Gooner1953 on February 18, 2014, 05:41:50 PM
...Unless Graham comes back to you with an LSWR Diagram number.
Graham came back to me with a wealth of detail. It was probably the most detailed response you could ever hope for, so full marks to him for taking the time to write it all.
He said:
The wagons are all taken from An Illustrated History of Southern Wagons Vol. 1...
WN01-WN04 and WN07-WN10 is the SR Dia 1316 (p25 of the book). All have wooden chassis as it makes it easier to cast them. You will note from the drawings that the top door has either parallel hinges or crossed hinges, my model reflects this. The wagon has either wooden or steel end posts and it shows. The sheeted wagons have one wooden the other steel ends posts and the ones with sheet rail is depicted with it collapsed over the top board. I have also built open wagons with the tarp rail mechanism on the ends in place [it was] as during various refurbs - the rail itself was removed but the hinge left until later. This also means the tarp rail can be scratchbuilt in the raised position for additional variety.
WN05, SR Dia 1481, WN06 SR Dia 1410 and WN15 again 1410 but with additional vents and torpedo vents for the roof.
WN16 SR Dia 1673 (p75) the unpriced numbers have yet to be built so if you have a suggestion I'd be happy to hear it.
The War flat is an LNER build, and the RecTank is built, but I need to devise a method of constructing the wire underframe [that makes it] suitable for sale.The only thing I forgot to ask him about was the cattle wagon, as it seems that I'll need this to replace the entirely incorrect Peco SR cattle wagons.
Quote from: Pete33 on February 19, 2014, 12:06:24 PM
Graham came back to me with a wealth of detail. It was probably the most detailed response you could ever hope for, so full marks to him for taking the time to write it all.
He said:
The wagons are all taken from An Illustrated History of Southern Wagons Vol. 1...
WN01-WN04 and WN07-WN10 is the SR Dia 1316 (p25 of the book). All have wooden chassis as it makes it easier to cast them. You will note from the drawings that the top door has either parallel hinges or crossed hinges, my model reflects this. The wagon has either wooden or steel end posts and it shows. The sheeted wagons have one wooden the other steel ends posts and the ones with sheet rail is depicted with it collapsed over the top board. I have also built open wagons with the tarp rail mechanism on the ends in place [it was] as during various refurbs - the rail itself was removed but the hinge left until later. This also means the tarp rail can be scratchbuilt in the raised position for additional variety.
WN05, SR Dia 1481, WN06 SR Dia 1410 and WN15 again 1410 but with additional vents and torpedo vents for the roof.
WN16 SR Dia 1673 (p75) the unpriced numbers have yet to be built so if you have a suggestion I'd be happy to hear it.
The War flat is an LNER build, and the RecTank is built, but I need to devise a method of constructing the wire underframe [that makes it] suitable for sale.
The only thing I forgot to ask him about was the cattle wagon, as it seems that I'll need this to replace the entirely incorrect Peco SR cattle wagons.
That's really useful Pete and I must admit that I found Graham a joy to deal with, he really knows the meaning of customer service! I'm probably going to go for 2mmSA chassis as they look
so much better than the Peco ones and there isn't a lot of difference when it comes to price. OK they are a bit more fiddly to build but the end product is worth it. They do 12.25mm axles to take Farish spoked wheels as a stopgap until they get new stocks in of N gauge wheels. I'll put some photos up when I've managed to wade through them all!
Nick
Quote from: Gooner1953 on February 19, 2014, 12:25:30 PM
That's really useful Pete and I must admit that I found Graham a joy to deal with, he really knows the meaning of customer service! I'm probably going to go for 2mmSA chassis as they look so much better than the Peco ones and there isn't a lot of difference when it comes to price. OK they are a bit more fiddly to build but the end product is worth it. They do 12.25mm axles to take Farish spoked wheels as a stopgap until they get new stocks in of N gauge wheels. I'll put some photos up when I've managed to wade through them all!
It's strange that Gramodels isn't more widely shouted about, given how customer-friendly Graham is. I almost stumbled across his wares by chance, but I'm glad I did, seeing as everything is to an LSWR diagram and is ideal for my period.
I don't have access to 2mmSA chassis, so I'll go the Peco route and put up with the slightly less realistic chassis. I'll also post photos, in my 'Grouping Workbench' thread, but it may not be in the very near future.
Peter
Quote from: Pete33 on February 19, 2014, 12:06:24 PM
I definitely have no plans to do dumb buffers, though. Weren't they all replaced by the time of the Grouping, or thereabouts?
Mostly. The companies banned third party dumb buffer wagons but not things like engineering wagons which incredibly lasted into the 1930s in this form.
(eg SR Dia 1753)
Quote from: EtchedPixels on February 19, 2014, 03:16:58 PM
Mostly. The companies banned third party dumb buffer wagons but not things like engineering wagons which incredibly lasted into the 1930s in this form.
(eg SR Dia 1753)
In that case, there's room for a little experimentation there, even if it's just a one-off for the SR engineering department. I'm tempted, dammit.
I've updated the Gramodels list, above, with the covered vans, and have also added the well wagon . There's only the cattle van left with an unknown, so we've done pretty well with that particular list. Let me know if anyone wants other items added.
P&D Marsh produce a bolster wagon, A502, but don't specify what make it is, or what diagram, etc. Does anyone have this kit so that it can be tied down?
Two kits that I've seen recently can best be categorised as follows:
Chivers Finelines Cat No RC910, SR 12T Luggage/PMV General Utility Van Diagram 3103 Built 1934-35. Even plank arrangement with single vent ends, matching this to a first batch built at Ashford in Oct 1934-Mar 1935.
Alternative running numbers: 2181-2230 (later batches will also match this model).
P&D Marsh Cat No A551, SR 12T Luggage/PMV General Utility Van Diagram 3103 Built 1934-35. Even plank arrangement using the single vent ends, matching this to a first batch built at Ashford in Oct 1934-Mar 1935.
Alternative running numbers: 2181-2230 (later batches will also match this model).
P&D Marsh Cat No A551, SR 14T Covcar/CCT Van Diagram 3102 (later 3101) Built 1931-32. Even plank arrangement using the covcar double doors, matching this to a batch built at Ashford in Apr 1931-Feb 1932.
Alternative running numbers: 2371-2460 (later batches will also match this model).
Many thanks for this very useful information that I've just found.
A quick question, please. I want to get into building SR (and WR) wagons for my North Cornish layout (Cant Cove) which are not available RTR. To get me started I have two P&D Marsh kits: A553 Southern Planked Van and A554c SR Plywood Van. The sticker simply states: fits Peco 10' chassis. Am I correct that this means the 10ft STEEL type solebar WAGON CHASSIS KIT Ref. NR-121? (And NOT the wooden type.)
Without having my books to hand at the moment, I'd say it would almost certainly be the steel frame. If it's the wooden frame then it's much more likely to be a 9ft wheelbase.
If the van is uneven planked or plywood then it will certainly be a steel frame chassis. Both these two were late 1930s and wartime diagrams respectively.
Many thanks, Pete. That was what i suspected.
Best regards,
Chris
PS One more question, please, Pete. Would these vans have been painted BR Freight Grey or Bauxite?
Depends on whether they were fitted or not...
Diagram 1458 (built 1936-39) even-planked, all vacuum-fitted, possible numbers include 47001-100, 48277-322, 49140-67/69-230
Diagram 1455 (built 1939-45) 2+2-planked, unfitted (handbrake only) and vacuum-fitted (vb), numbers include 44719-988, 54001-250 (hb) and 49427-951, 64921-5280 (vb).
Diagram 1452 (built 1945-51) plywood-bodied, all (hb), possible numbers include 50901-1000, 51351-400, 54251-500, 56501-7010.
All remaining (hb) vans were fitted with (vb) after 1956.
Info taken from NGS NGK21 kit (SR 12T Van) notes. The Peco chassis supplied with the NGS kits are the 10'WB steel-solebar ones.
So, the ones marked (vb) would be Bauxite (of whichever shade is applicable for the time period); and from 1950-ish to whenever the (vb) conversion took place, the (hb) wagons would be Grey, and Bauxite thereafter.
Many thanks for all that useful information. I mean to progress to NGS wagon kits, later. So, I think my first two will be in Early BR BR Bauxite (using Halford Undercoat spray) as I'm modelling from 1961 - 1968. I have vacuum pipe mouldings to glue to the vans. My next two will be in Late BR Bauxite (when I have bought the spray paint via eBay Germany!)
I bow to Talisman's wisdom on this. I model 1930, so anything after the war is out of my area of experience.
You know, given how much detail we produced on this thread I'm surprised that it didn't run and run to cover a much wider variety of kits...
Quote from: Pete33 on September 09, 2015, 01:09:55 PM
You know, given how much detail we produced on this thread I'm surprised that it didn't run and run to cover a much wider variety of kits...
Me, too, Pete. There are still plenty of kits for models not available RTR.