I've just seen the following updates from Dapol:
1. Class 33 locomotive chassis and performance is approved however some minor body details are being corrected before a final EP.
2. Maunsell Coaches are at the decoration stage with samples due towards the end of February
3. The G.W.R. Grange locomotive uses many parts from the Manor and the 2884 class, and only requires a new footplate, original Swindon drawings are with the vendor who is preparing tooling drawings.
4. The latest CAD’s for the Schools class locomotive have just been received and are now being checked.
5. The first CAD’s for the class 50 are also ready for checking.
Hopefully of interest to some! Pity there is no mention of the 59 or 142!
Cheers, Mike
From what I had heard the 59 hasn't even been started. :worried:
A shame that the 50 is only at the first CAD stage when a year ago tomorrow "the first cad/cam pictures of the class 50 Diesel loco in N gauge" were released by Dapol Dave on RMweb. :no:
Glad to hear that the 33 is getting there. Already have mine on pre-order. :)
Yep, there are some slightly concerning comments on things! I was sure we had already seen CAD of the 50!
Cheers, Mike
Dapol seem to have dropped the ball since DJ left the fold.
There's no regular feedback, stuff that we all thought would be closer to finished by now isnt, or may have even regressed.
Perhaps Dapol are more interested in OO now??
These models are having a very slow and painful gestation but I'm sure they will be worth the wait.
Wonder if the Class 68 is jumping the queue in secret?
I'll be very happy to see the Maunsell coaches being released.
Quote from: captainelectra on February 06, 2014, 12:28:36 PM
These models are having a very slow and painful gestation but I'm sure they will be worth the wait.
Wonder if the Class 68 is jumping the queue in secret?
That would be nice!
Thanks for the update. Unfortunately this just seems to confirm in my mind that Dapol at the moment cannot be taken that seriously. All manufacturers have had delays in the past few years, some more than others. Atlas was awful, but is slowly getting back into order. Minitrix announcements come with a year give or take - but at least with a glossy brochure and quarterly updates.
I am rather disappointed by the late running 59 and also 50. There is no point in announcing something you have no intention or possibility of getting into production in the stated time period. In the end the customer is just going to lose interest.
This is not a rant :veryangry: merely an observation ;)
Marcus
Much the same as has been on Dapols website for ages. The Class 33 has been in EP for months.
I thought the 21/29 were 4mm?
The Falcons (and IOAs) were shown in first mockup form late last year when Dapol admitted there were some errors which needed correcting in the CAD. I doubt too much has changed since then.
Cheers, Mike
Hello all,
My understanding is that the tooling for the JNA and IOA wagons has been modified to reflect feedback since the first test models were shown at the Dapol open day, and that they are awaiting revised EPs for both types of wagon very soon.
cheers
Ben A.
Could farish or djm or even hornby arnold try to beat dapol by producing a 50 or 59 or 142 before them???
I will buy a 33, 50 and 59 from dapol if they look good.
Tim
Hi Tim,
Dapol have already had the majority of the CAD work done for the 50, albeit there are a few errors that need sorting as of last summer. Notwithstanding the Dapol delays I can't see Farish or DJM getting a 50 out before them and with the CJM version already well established I think they'd feel that the market can't sustain three different 50s.
I think a 59 from Farish is far more likely for these reasons:
1) they could do it in N and OO because the Hornby ex Lima version is rather long in the tooth. This would make more financial sense as the research could be shared.
2) they already have much of the "shape" in a computer somewhere as part of the CAD for the 66. Yes the bogies, light clusters, exhaust and grilles are different but the basic shape is there and offers a good starting point.
But I suspect that for both Farish and Dapol this will be a year of consolidation rather than massive expansion! and what new models are announced will be predominantly from the BR steam/diesel transition era.
Cheers
Ben A.
sounds sensible ben, esp. as you mention, the hornby OO class 59 is an old model now, so bachmann could get one over their rivals in the bigger scale too.
i would like a 50 in large logo and a 59 in yeoman livery.
tim
Quote from: AndyGif on February 06, 2014, 12:17:17 PM
Dapol seem to have dropped the ball since DJ left the fold.
I think that is not really suprising. Dave was pretty integral to Dapol's R&D work. With the best will in the world, it is going to take his successor(s) time to settle in. It is not as if designing N gauge locomotives is a large industry with many qualified people to choose from.
Dapol have a fairly long list of forthcoming models and I suspect that they will have their hands full for this year just making sure existing commitments are progressing.
Let us also not forget that Farish are just as bad for announcing models years before their eventual appearance. Yes there were reasons why the Ivatt took 5 years to hit the shelves and the 9F never appeared at all. But I am sure Dapol have reasons for their delays too. The main things is that work is progressing and new models are appearing.
They may not be coming as fast as we would like and it may not always be progress on the projects we as individuals want to see prioritised. But look upon it as a silver lining. The model you want is coming and at least you have plenty of time to save up for it (or pay of the credit card bill from the last round of impulse buys). ;)
There are 2 ways that that announcements could be done. And neither of them are very good.
They can continue doing it the way that they have done for years and disappoint customers when they have not arrived in the timescale (142, ivatt, MK3 TGS and Buffets). The 2nd way is to not announce the new models that they are preparing and do a but of a surprise launch like Dapol did with the voyager. They risk the backlash from customers, who when the limited run comes out the dont have the money to buy it then, or manufacturers risk being beaten to it like Farish were with the 9F and voyager.
Either way nobody will be happy so they are in a loose loose situation.
Dapol have gone though a big change recently and the 2 people brought in to replace DJ will take a bit of time to find their feet but they are already making thinks better as the gave corrected issues with models that were about to go in to the tool room (SR WC/BB).
As long as they come out eventually then I don't see a huge problem. As it gives more time to raise the money for these models.
Alistair
Let's face it, if all the Dapol and Farish pre-orders happened when they were supposed to some people would be bankrupted.
I suspect that, using the Dapol Class 33 as an example, that New Products are not getting much priority at Dapol. Unless you have dedicated people who only work on New Products and nothing else then evaluating EP submissions and forecasting sales volumes, and even attending New Product meetings, can become a poorly supported irritation that gets in the way of the predictable and comfy daily routine of selling what you already have. Don't know if Dapol UK employs 1000 people or 25 people, but I bet it's closer to the latter.
Quote from: Arrachogaidh on February 07, 2014, 11:16:53 PM
If Dapol and Grafar want to engage the modelling contingent with RTR models they MUST produce what they state in their literature.
Otherwise we are back in NEVER NEVER LAND.
No, where we are is in the real world where sometimes things don't quite go according to plan. Staff changes, supply problems, human errors in design or manufacture, etc etc will happen and usually cause delays.
For example, Bachmann recently sent the trade a note stating that almost all their December deliveries would be delayed until January due to stormy conditions at sea delaying the ships carrying their containers.
As far as I can see, when models are announced and then cancelled (Farish 9F, Meridien Voyager) plausible and reasonable explanations are offered. Luckily we're only talking about model trains here.
cheers
Ben A.
Quote from: Arrachogaidh on February 07, 2014, 11:16:53 PM
If Dapol and Grafar want to engage the modelling contingent with RTR models they MUST produce what they state in their literature.
I'm sure they aspire to do that. There are two things at work here though that are important to remember
- Bachmann and Dapol cannot sit in a dark (now smokefree) room and plot together and divide up releases. They can publically announce models and so mostly not stomp on each others toes. Some of the diesel era stuff at least was most certainly 'produce lots, fast, claim this class' type goings on.
- It doesn't take a lot to make a product slide when you have long turn around times. I'm actually amazed Bachmann do as well as they do on this. Dapol seem to have their own special set of problems though. Pacer anyone 8)
From my own experience in the kit making world it only takes a couple of design problems to slide a kit by three or four months. That's with a typical three-four week turnaround, all in the EU and with everyone involved speaking English fluently.
Even then a major design issue can derail you for a long time. My oldest outstanding model is from 2009 because it has taken until now for 3D print to solve the unfixable problem at the time. Still it'll be out "shortly" :-[
Alan
It's not the delays that bother me, it's the return to the bad old days of lack of engagement with the community. Dave is a very community & internet savy guy, and that showed when he was at Dapol and shows now he's struck off on his own with DJ Models. Management at Dapol & Bachman don't seem to have cottoned on to the fact that Daves constant contact and feedback between him & the community during the development of new models is what made Dapol special. That's even after the work that went into the design of the Western, widely regarded as one of the most accurate modern models to have been produced to date. Why not make an effort to maintain that level of engagement & communication?
Quote from: Vanders on February 08, 2014, 02:35:08 PM
It's not the delays that bother me, it's the return to the bad old days of lack of engagement with the community. Dave is a very community & internet savy guy, and that showed when he was at Dapol and shows now he's struck off on his own with DJ Models. Management at Dapol & Bachman don't seem to have cottoned on to the fact that Daves constant contact and feedback between him & the community during the development of new models is what made Dapol special. That's even after the work that went into the design of the Western, widely regarded as one of the most accurate modern models to have been produced to date. Why not make an effort to maintain that level of engagement & communication?
I think there is an issue of visibility too. Currently Dapol's profile is very low, to me their Website is very uninspiring and from what little I have seen of their "Facebook" pages that is little better. The Forums give an opportunity to keep in people's "Faces" in a positive way, something Dave J seems only too aware of with his own DJM threads.
However it takes a particular kind of person to engage in the way Dave does, and also someone prepared to do a lot of the interaction on various Forums in their own time and brave enough to deal with the inevitable criticism. Before him, George Smith (although by his own admission not a railway enthusiast) was a good communicator and highly visible.
Also as well as the attributes you mention above (and a good number more) Dave is an enthusiast and I suspect his enthusiasm means he is content to let the "day job" overlap into his personal time I suspect most would probably not want to however much of a business advantage it could be.
Regards
Roy
The criticism of Dapol's web page may be justified but compared to what it used to be, the current page is informative and responsive. As to their performance bringing promises to market, well they are as good as Farish at the moment proportionally (in my opinion). Having said that, I see very few complaints as regards Union Mills. Do they make promises of new models and fail to deliver ? I don't know because I model diesels not steam, and anyway they seem to have adopted a run well/less detail approach which seems to please all (most of ?) those who buy their products. (There may be a lesson there for the others.)
What I do find frustrating is that of them all, Dapol almost insists that we pre-order because if we don't we are liable to not get the one we want and the next run can be years away. From a business point of view this is good for Dapol and the retailer but I wonder if it is instrumental in some of the ferocious criticism on forums in general and this one in particular - a long wait followed by a problem does tend to magnify that problem rather quickly !
I agree with BobB about the pre-ordering. In fact looking at the major box shifters at the moment (and I have only really looked at Diesels & Electrics) I would guess that almost half of the offerings shown are "Pre-order" and that includes changes/updates to livery as well as new models.. So you would wonder when the last batch of models were actually manufactured..
Just on a different tack slightly , last month when I realised/remembered that Dapol were going to release an A4 (William Whitelaw) in early BR Blue soon , I pre-ordered one from Hattons . I had an email on Friday to say that they were expecting this item later in the month . We'll see !! Cheers , Ric
Got the same email for Sir Nigel Gresley.
That'll push the budget as I've just bought that bargain WD! :worried:
Dave G
Yeah , me too ! OOPS !!! Ric
Quote from: daveg on February 09, 2014, 07:39:26 PM
Got the same email for Sir Nigel Gresley.
Yeah me too, I'm expecting that easily into 2nd quarter of the year going on Dapol's punctuality with releases.
Not much excitement promised in the short term in Dapol's newsletter yesterday. Just a couple of cosmetic livery variations on the Westerns. OK. If you can afford more £90s to own five different Westerns I suppose.
Anybody know when the mk3 buffets for hst in blue grey are coming also what happen to the class 56 liverys from last year ie large logo blue it really is a choose a production slot by dartboard at moment i see so little coming into my local shop i an surprised dapol havent gone bust and the other thing that really gets my goat is the bloodly adverts in the model press telling me whats not coming this month or next
Rant over
Nobby
Tell me about it, Nobby.
I pre-ordered Britannia 'Firth of Clyde' in November 2011, which was due for release early in 2012.
Still waiting...
In terms of budget management (for me, not the manufacturers), it sometimes turns out to be not such a bad thing that some models are late. It suits me that the Mark 1 sleepers and Coronation Pacifics that I pre-ordered haven't all come out at the same time (as was supposedly going to be the case originally.) Likewise it's fine that the different versions of the A4 have gaps between them. if everything that i had wanted up to now had been released when they said they would, i wouldn't have been able to afford them all before they sold out!
By contrast, I found the time between announcement and delivery of the Fairburn tank very short in comparison to other models.
Perhaps Dapol and Bachman should just announce what they are definitely going to produce, without a timescale to prevent our frustration. That way we know what's coming eventually and we can plan for it. Announce a date only when it's been loaded on the boat?
My major frustration is in the short production runs, most notably with the New Tool Farish Class 101. This contrasts with seemingly plentiful (at the moment) of Dapol's Class 26 and Farish Class 24 in Green.