N Gauge Forum

General Category => N Gauge Discussion => Topic started by: silverfox on January 26, 2014, 05:12:23 PM

Title: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: silverfox on January 26, 2014, 05:12:23 PM
Hi All,

As a micro layout builder I've always concentrated mainly on creating very small 'roundy roundies' I think this is mainly due to the fact it has kept me in my comfort zone as I'm totally points phobic.....most of my layouts seem to be completely pointless after all!!
On the couple of occasions that turnouts have appeared on my layouts they have been manual 'hand of god' operation and also fairly unreliable, I run DC and they seem to need constant fettling to achieve current flow.

I have decided that my next layout will be a small end to end and therefore I need to tackle my nemesis as some turnouts are inevitable, this decision was helped along by some inspiration from the recent images posted by Gavin (gdandridge) of his great little shelf layout 'Ridley End'.

Having read up a bit on Kato unitrack It appears that the electric points seem to be fairly bullet proof, reliable and more to the point easy for me to set up. I've also taken on board the suggestion that unitrack is supposedly harder to achieve a convincing level of realism on a scenic layout but I've got to say that after studying Jon's (PostModN66) layout 'Lofthole' and some interesting Kato ballasting youtube posts I have to disagree.

So I'd be very interested to hear of anyone's experience with unitrack run as a DC layout using Farish and Dapol stock and whether there are any major pitfalls that I need to worry about before I part with any hard earned! :-\

Cheers all

Jason
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: Agrafarfan on January 26, 2014, 05:41:34 PM
Hi

I have ordered Kato unitrack due to having some difficulty drilling holes in my table for the Peco motors. I was going to buy Kato originally but decided to go DCC but that didn't work out so I have ordered Kato's M2 master expansion pack and v5 or v6 inner circle expansion pack.

Reading on here Kato seems to be really easy to set up especially they have electric points.

Kato have some really attractive expansion packs plus one of the members on here (sorry don't know the gentlemans name :-[ ) sells Unitrack "Train Trax"

All the best
Ian
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: Pengi on January 26, 2014, 05:44:16 PM
Hi Jason, I use Unitrack points and they are very easy to use and reliable. Takes the headache out of wiring points :thumbsup:

There are some issues with No 4 points and certain rolling stock but the points can be easily modified (although I've not done it as don't have No 4 points) There are posts about this on the forum.

The scissors is a lovely bit of kit and works well - the switch needs to be thrown slowly though so that all the blades move.

I have some Farish and Dapol stock (EMUs, DMUs, HST) and they work fine.


Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: PostModN66 on January 26, 2014, 05:58:33 PM
The #4 points can be modified but I wouldn't say "easily" - in fact it was a bit of a chore modding all mine on Lofthole.

Here is the thread:
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=17242.msg176206#msg176206 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=17242.msg176206#msg176206)

I would avoid them if possible - but that doesn't fit with a "small end to end" that Jason "Silverfox" wants.

Jason - I suggest that you obtain one (#4) and test all your stock through it before splashing out on more.  It might be fine, particularly as trains are likely to be going slowly.  But be warned about Dapol 66s; I couldn't get them to go through at any speed!

Good luck with it all!

Cheers  Jon   :)
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: silverfox on January 26, 2014, 06:01:28 PM
Thanks Guys,

I had heard about the no 4 points issue, the ones that I'm planning are 20203 and 20202 which I believe are 15degree turnouts so I'm hoping that I won't experience the same problems.

Cheers for the steer onto Trax, I've already got a basket started ready for launch as and when!!! ;)

Jason
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: Geoff on January 26, 2014, 06:06:26 PM
You will enjoy the Kato Unitrack and the points, it is so easy to work with and you will wonder why you never used it sooner, good luck with your layout.
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: tutenkhamunsleeping on January 26, 2014, 06:18:20 PM
Quote from: silverfox on January 26, 2014, 06:01:28 PM
I had heard about the no 4 points issue, the ones that I'm planning are 20203 and 20202 which I believe are 15degree turnouts so I'm hoping that I won't experience the same problems.

Yes, those are the number six jobbies and I've had nothing but flawless performance from them :thumbsup:

If you're tempted by a double crossover at any point time, they're number sixes too 8)
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: silverfox on January 26, 2014, 06:54:25 PM
Thanks for confirming that my intended turnouts are the fault free ones Steve, I've just checked out your amazing video which I found on a previous thread that Jon kindly posted the link to......superb layout there's a few yards of track there!!! You're clearly a Kato convert.
Have you had any experience of the magnetic uncoupler, will it work with standard couplers fitted with tags or would I need to change to a different format?

Cheers

Jason
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: Les1952 on January 26, 2014, 06:57:49 PM
As an alternative, have you looked at Tomix finetrack?

All the very best
Les
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: silverfox on January 26, 2014, 07:02:43 PM
I haven't Les, is it as readily available and a similar system?

Cheers

Jason
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: MKP on January 26, 2014, 08:35:44 PM
Quote from: silverfox on January 26, 2014, 07:02:43 PM
I haven't Les, is it as readily available and a similar system?

Cheers

Jason

Not as readily available but Tomix has a larger track range than Kato.
You are not restricted to one track manufacturer, you can mix and match between them as long as they are the same code of track ( kato is code 80)
If you need some Kato track plan ideas: http://www.osbornsmodels.com/track-plans-587-c.asp (http://www.osbornsmodels.com/track-plans-587-c.asp)
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: tutenkhamunsleeping on January 26, 2014, 09:06:02 PM
Quote from: silverfox on January 26, 2014, 06:54:25 PM
You're clearly a Kato convert.
Have you had any experience of the magnetic uncoupler, will it work with standard couplers fitted with tags or would I need to change to a different format?

Yes, although starting out to use a bit of Kato to speed up getting the fiddle yard up and running, I'm beginning to think I'm now an actual addict  :goggleeyes:

Not tried the couplers, indeed I've not tried the Dapol magnetics I've got in my to-do pile either!

I haven't tried the Tomix track, mainly because it's not so readily available in the UK.
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: trainsdownunder on January 26, 2014, 09:36:38 PM
Kato Unitrack is just so easy and can be used to build more complex layouts if needed.

Got converted to Kato after visiting a friend and seeing his layout. This is just before sellin it http://youtu.be/u3wawaiCaMc (http://youtu.be/u3wawaiCaMc). There are more videos of the build on YouTube.
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: Pengi on January 27, 2014, 07:15:03 AM
There is a major downside to Kato Unitrack . . .


. . . it is so nice to use that it is easy to keep buying more, and more, and more, and more . . . . .  ;D
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: Geoff on January 27, 2014, 10:16:26 AM
Quote from: Pengi on January 27, 2014, 07:15:03 AM
There is a major downside to Kato Unitrack . . .


. . . it is so nice to use that it is easy to keep buying more, and more, and more, and more . . . . .  ;D

I have that problem how do you fix it..  :laughabovepost:
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: tutenkhamunsleeping on January 27, 2014, 11:12:10 AM
Quote from: Geoff on January 27, 2014, 10:16:26 AM
I have that problem how do you fix it..  :laughabovepost:

With UniJoiners ;)
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: Geoff on January 27, 2014, 12:10:27 PM
Quote from: tutenkhamunsleeping on January 27, 2014, 11:12:10 AM
Quote from: Geoff on January 27, 2014, 10:16:26 AM
I have that problem how do you fix it..  :laughabovepost:

With UniJoiners ;)

Yeah right  :D
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: Deltic9001 on January 27, 2014, 12:31:12 PM
Hi,

I use the Kato magnetic uncoupling track successfully with the Dapol magnetic couplers. I've only fitted these couplers to Dapol stock (Class 26/27 and Gresley coaches) but will progress to the Farish stock soon (I found fitting the Dapol couplers to Farish tricky as the Farish NEM socket appears a bit tight to slot the couplers into).

Regarding the #4 points, I found that some of the Farish locomotives problematical but a small change to the wheel back-to-back solved the problem.

Best Regards,
Andy Hoskins
Falkirk
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: Richey1977 on January 27, 2014, 01:25:18 PM
I'm also a bit wary about points - I've also had some tribulations with getting them to work well, but I've taken the view that I should persevere and get it right.  Like yourself, I do really like scenery more than railway functions, so I've restricted my layout to 5 sets of points.

When my layout is at a more developed stage, I'm thinking of making a pointless layout for my Graham Farish 'Depot Master' train set, which I got cheap on eBay last month.  My plan is to restrict the layout to what's in the box, adding no more than a couple more track sections, and spend the time on the scenery.  With time and effort, it will be great looking micro-layout (I hope!).

I actually quite like the idea of laying down a challenge for others - get a starter's train set, and give it the scenic treatment as best you can.
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: PostModN66 on January 27, 2014, 01:29:42 PM
Quote from: Richey1977 on January 27, 2014, 01:25:18 PM
I actually quite like the idea of laying down a challenge for others - get a starter's train set, and give it the scenic treatment as best you can.

That's a great idea!  Either to build one, or just to do a design.

For my information - do any train sets come with points?   Just an oval seems extremely minimalist!

Cheers

Jon   :)
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: Richey1977 on January 27, 2014, 01:44:14 PM
The Farish ones don't.  Hornby's OO Gauge sets often do, even if the set consists of a 4-coach passenger train and a siding that's the length of one coach.  I never quite understood that...

I like minimalist, anyway.  I started out with the intention of a simple circuit, but I got side-tracked into a station loop and a goods siding.  My next layout will be all scenery.  A working diorama, if you like.
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: Geoff on January 27, 2014, 02:44:58 PM
Quote from: PostModN66 on January 27, 2014, 01:29:42 PM
Quote from: Richey1977 on January 27, 2014, 01:25:18 PM
I actually quite like the idea of laying down a challenge for others - get a starter's train set, and give it the scenic treatment as best you can.

That's a great idea!  Either to build one, or just to do a design.

For my information - do any train sets come with points?   Just an oval seems extremely minimalist!

Cheers

Jon   :)

If you go for the Kato M2 that comes with a passing loop then just add your own trains.
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: PostModN66 on January 27, 2014, 03:39:00 PM
Quote from: Geoff on January 27, 2014, 02:44:58 PM
If you go for the Kato M2 that comes with a passing loop then just add your own trains.

Just looked up an M2, licking lips when anticipating a design challenge; its 6' 10" long   :goggleeyes: according to the MG Sharp website - a bit big for a micro-layout!!!!

Cheers  Jon   :)
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: Richey1977 on January 27, 2014, 03:50:19 PM
Much too big!

I'm pushed for space at home, so I was thinking 3'x2', which is what I originally told the missus I was going to go with.

Fortunately, she doesn't really get imperial measurements, so my 3' became 4'9" without an awkward conversation.
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: Geoff on January 27, 2014, 04:36:14 PM
Quote from: Richey1977 on January 27, 2014, 03:50:19 PM
Much too big!

I'm pushed for space at home, so I was thinking 3'x2', which is what I originally told the missus I was going to go with.

Fortunately, she doesn't really get imperial measurements, so my 3' became 4'9" without an awkward conversation.

Well I started off with a 4 x 2 and ended up with a 6 x 3, could do with the extra room to make it much bigger.

One needs to live in Australia or the USA they are  born with plenty of room.
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: Richey1977 on January 27, 2014, 04:41:07 PM
I like the challenge of constraints. Without limits on space, money, time etc, we can all do great things. I'd like to create something that looks a million dollars, and can be stowed in a tiny place.

I should probably be thinking about dioramas than working layouts, but there you go.
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: Guy on January 27, 2014, 06:30:31 PM
I have been collecting Kato track and points for a while now getting ready for a new layout which will be Kato based. I admit I am really impressed with it and although much has been written about number 4 points, I will be using a fair few (30-40). My view is that they are a major move forward comparative to the current points I have on my layout as is.
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: Kipper on January 27, 2014, 08:10:54 PM
Probably an obvious question, but I assume Kato (US) locos will run happily over number 4 points?
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: silverfox on January 27, 2014, 10:11:47 PM
Is there a definitive dimension for a micro layout?

My proposed Kato end to end that started the thread is likely to have a scenic part around 3'6" long by 16" deep with a fiddle yard at one end giving a total length around 6' (the limit to what I can cart around in my Mini!), this will seem positively sprawling for me as my recent builds have been around 18 x 12"! then you can just hang em on the wall like a picture!!

I guess it's very easy to to take in a tiny layout in one look but if it's packed with detail and can capture the viewers interest surely that must offset to some extent what it lacks in dynamic operation?

Oh blimey........... am I trying to talk myself out of all these turnouts already?!! :worried:

Regards

Jason
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: PostModN66 on January 27, 2014, 10:24:09 PM
Quote from: silverfox on January 27, 2014, 10:11:47 PM
Is there a definitive dimension for a micro layout?

The definition I have come across is 4 sq ft - regardless of scale.  I think this may come from Karl Arendt - by the way, if you haven't googled him it's worth it.

Cheers  Jon   :)
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: silverfox on January 27, 2014, 10:40:35 PM
Thanks Jon

I've just taken your advise, he clearly was a master micro layout builder and the summary and definitions on his website are spot on.

Cheers

Jason
Title: Re: Kato unitrack for a points phobic layout builder?
Post by: Gordon on January 27, 2014, 11:12:47 PM
I’m a complete convert, stemming from my hatred of traditional wiring. I now have bucketloads of Kato track, and use it for instant track on club nights, and have two scenic layouts.

Take it from me, getting a fully remote controlled Kato track layout up and running is possible in as little as five minutes.


This thread is beginning to cross over (pun intended!) into the discussions that have already been had on other sub forums -
To quote one of the forum moderators from another thread:

Don't forget to use our search facility to hunt out those elusive titbits and gems of info already posted on here by some of our great members.

For example I wrote about my Kato layout in the thread:

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=5576.15 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=5576.15)

Both my layouts have mostly number 4 points and I have only found a very few items that have trouble with them. Very often, it is axle back to back, not the point geometry, that is the problem.