I kept typing in favorite in the search engine to look for discussions about people's preferences and kept getting nothing. Then it dawned on this silly Yankee...the U! Favourite? Yes, much better results. Having read enough Tolkien, Wells, Lewis, etc...well...shame on me for not realising
:laughabovepost: :laughabovepost: :laughabovepost:
We don't have that problem north of the border in Canada..... :laugh3:
Quote from: scottmitchell74 on January 25, 2014, 03:53:17 PM
...shame on me for not realizing sooner.
Realising
Cheers Jon :)
Ahh yes, works much better when you use proper English ;) :D ;) :D
Regards
Neal
Note to authorities..............
We need to restart sending missionaries and language teachers to the US of A again.
( We should never have granted them independence ).
:sorrysign:
You know that we wouldn't be able to leave that alone now don't you.......
:D
:beers:
My Barbadian wife has been seeing to my reeducation for years now! Getting there...
They have a saying there "More English than England sheself." :D
Quote from: scottmitchell74 on January 25, 2014, 04:24:12 PM
My Barbadian wife has been seeing to my reeducation for years now! Getting there...
They have a saying there "More English than England sheself." :D
Ahhh....Barbados...now there is somewhere I'd like to be right now..... :cold: :cold: :cold:
What gets me is how they have the gall to call what they speak over there 'English' and as for their spelling; don't get me started. :o ::)
Don't look for 'switches' Scott you wont find what you are looking for ;)
FWIW:
Based-upon population useage, there are currently EIGHT recognised forms of 'English' on the planet.
Theses are as follows:
'Standard' English (aka 'BBC' or 'Home Counties' English')
'South African' English
'Australian' English
'New Zealand' English
'Canadian' English
'American' English
'Chinese' English (I kid you not) aka 'Chinglish' (that ethnic-grouping's term for their variant BTW)
'Korean' English (Again, I kid you not) aka 'Kringlish' (again, the term used by the Korean-ethnic group to describe there version)
Whether any (or all) of these constitute 'real' English can be the subject of debate.
FWIW: 'American' English is essentially 17th Century English (the Pilgrim Father's and all that) with bits added-on. When compared to 'Standard 'BBC' English, it is very definitely NOT 'English' English, a detail which many American's seem unable to comprehend. it is rather, a variant, and has been liked to 17th-century English stuck in aspic'. As such it is somewhat unique. Linguistically, the Atlantic Ocean was a definitely a barrier...
However, the evolution of both 'Chinglish' and Kringlish' may be of interest. Currently, 'English' (in all its variations) and Mandarin ('Chinese') are equally the world's most widely-used languages.
English-usage is however increasing, with Chinese and Korean 'English' being the pacesetters. These two 'variants' of 'English' are now evolving by themselves as their speakers in turn teach other speakers from within their ethnicity. These groups are not, of course 'native' speakers for whom English is their first language. As a result, and with time, it is expected that Chinglish and Kringlish' will develop and evolve into something which may well be another 'variant' of 'English'. Exactly what will result is not, of course, evident at the moment, lthough the end=result may not be a form which will conform to any known 'variant' of 'English'. Time will tell.
As I said, FWIW. Hope this has been of interest. .
(BTW, If anyone wonders: I am a TESOL teacher, who finds language 'evolution' a fascinating subject)
:laughabovepost: Tell me about it ! My wife is Chinese and she has a language all of her own.
Yeah, the English language in all its versions/dialects is endlessly fascinating to me.
One of my all-time favorite anecdotes that I like to share is the time I had to translate between two people who both speak English as their first and native languages.
I'm from Ohio - The American Midwest. We speak what is generally thought of as "Standard American English" more or less without a distinguishing (to other Americans) accent. It's the English you'll typically hear spoken by news anchors on major networks.
My wife is, as mentioned, Barbadian. In the classroom and work-place they speak a nice, proper, beautiful Caribbean English. In the home and playground, however, they speak a dialect they call Bajan. It's a mix of English, African, American (especially with the advent of TV in every home) and other words that are unique to them. It's impossible for a non-native to speak, although you can follow after a while. It's fast, very often heavily contracted, lots of slang. It's rough on the beginner. My Mother-In-Law served as my "Rosetta Stone" for understanding Bajan.
We now live in West Texas - Real Cowboy country. When we first moved to Abilene, TX I got hired onto the local Fire Department. I can remember my wife coming to the Station and my Lt. at the time was this true Texan with a very pronounced drawl. My wife was much more recently "off the boat" as she says, so her accent was thicker. When these two were trying to speak to each other, neither could understand the other. So, my Lt. would say something and I'd translate for my lost wife, and when my wife spoke I had to clarify for my Lt. who couldn't quite catch everything she said. I was grinning from ear-to-ear the whole time.
That was quite an unusual experience that I not contemplated until it happened to me.
Quote from: Komata on January 25, 2014, 05:56:22 PM
FWIW: 'American' English is essentially 17th Century English (the Pilgrim Father's and all that) with bits added-on. When compared to 'Standard 'BBC' English, it is very definitely NOT 'English' English, a detail which many American's seem unable to comprehend. it is rather, a variant, and has been liked to 17th-century English stuck in aspic'. As such it is somewhat unique. Linguistically, the Atlantic Ocean was a definitely a barrier...
I heard this on a tour of the Globe Theatre (or should I say theater?) in London, where they sometimes put on Shakespeare's plays performed in an Elizabethan style. Apparently this sounds much closer in tone to today's American accent than to today's English English.
Interesting to learn that Standard English seems to exclude anyone from North of Watford ;) Mind you, I have been in Newcastle or Glasgow and wondered what language the locals were speaking - it certainly didn't sound like English :D
Scott - was your Lt a 'Leftenant' or a 'Lootenant' though ;)
:D Lootenant... Sometimes I will drop a "leftenant" on one of them and I just get this puzzled look. :hmmm:
You really need to add Indian English to those lists in the real world - it has its own collection of loan words like "lakh" and "crore" (for the rather cumbersome English 100,000 and 10,000,000) and that appears all over the place, with a huge number of second language speakers. The writing style is also fascinating sounding quite archaic compared with modern UK English because they still know how to use tenses and grammar properly.
I do find the official lists rather odd. By first language speaker Ireland's rather distinctive take on the language should be up there along with Jamaican English, which is most definitely its own form..
I've had the same experience of needing translation once when I was at a meeting with someone else from the UK (a very broad Geordie accent) but fortunately with someone from the North East who wasn't so extreme.
Fortunately most UK speakers speak their dialect and something resembling a generic UK English nowdays. Some of the dialect forms are near unintelligble to outsiders (things like Glaswegian, Doric, some of the Northern Irish accents, Jamaican English, Geordie, Northumberland, Black Country (although this appears to be dying out) and strong Yorkshire)
At least Wenglish isn't too hard :-\
The joys of the great vowel shift.
Alan
I have been trying to re-educate the people here in Colorado. I started with tomato, basil (bay-zil here but still Basil as in Faulty), route (rowt) and the correct pronunciation of Arr-kansas. Sadly I write to report that the natives have not followed my lead and have continued to drop prepositions, mainly 'of,' like it was going out of fashion and, in a way, it has. So I thought I would write these couple sentences....woooops.
Mark K
Quote from: Mark K on January 25, 2014, 06:57:01 PM
I have been trying to re-educate the people here in Colorado. I started with tomato, basil (bay-zil here but still Basil as in Faulty), route (rowt) and the correct pronunciation of Arr-kansas. Sadly I write to report that the natives have not followed my lead and have continued to drop prepositions, mainly 'of,' like it was going out of fashion and, in a way, it has. So I thought I would write these couple sentences....woooops.
Mark K
Have you persuaded them to pay bills with cheques yet rather than the reverse :P
Like it, damned clever. BTW they're checks over here.
Quote from: EtchedPixels on January 25, 2014, 06:50:41 PM
I've had the same experience of needing translation once when I was at a meeting with someone else from the UK (a very broad Geordie accent) but fortunately with someone from the North East who wasn't so extreme.
Alan
If only we could have spread our dialect as effectively as we spread the railways :laugh:
Steve (Durham boy!)
Mark
'...They're checks over here'
But are they Slovaks when they're in Europe?
One has to ask....
I'm reminded of a photo I saw years ago that had a sign that said something like this:
"No coaches allowed in stadium parking lot."
To an American this was a confusing sign until properly educated. What? Why can't the coaches go into the parking lot. What did they do wrong?
Oh?! You mean a bus? Aha!
No wonder learning English is so hard as a 2nd/3rd...language.
Do you mean Czechs pronounced 'checks'? We'll be getting onto the old GHOTI pronounced 'fish' thing - i can feel it coming. :worried:
Quote from: EtchedPixels on January 25, 2014, 06:57:43 PM
Have you persuaded them to pay bills with cheques yet rather than the reverse :P
Very clever EP! I had to think about that one. :dunce: ;D
Best I saw in a car park was in Canada when we visited a Canadian "Highland Games" as a group. A big sign by some of the bays simply said "Clan members only". Had some of the US members of the group a bit perplexed and bothered.
Alan
I could see why - just watched 'The Butler' too. How about the sign which reads 'Refuse to be placed into the incinerator'. Most living Americans would but they might place their garbage there!
Quote from: EtchedPixels on January 25, 2014, 07:21:59 PM
Best I saw in a car park was in Canada when we visited a Canadian "Highland Games" as a group. A big sign by some of the bays simply said "Clan members only". Had some of the US members of the group a bit perplexed and bothered.
Alan
Shouldn't of really, as they spell 'Clan' with a 'K' - I'll get me coat...
Ouch! Don't let the tele spoil your views of the average American!
:dunce: Is English English really English or is it an amalgamation of manyCeltic, European, Roman and Greek words that have mingled through Anglo Saxon times and become 'pure English' as we know it today? :dunce:
Just saw a news items about two scots visitors to California having a close encounter with a bear. The local news had subtitled it so that the locals could understand the accents
When I moved to Derbyshire, having been based in London and Home Counties all my life, I was expecting some "Northern" difficulties with speaking to the locals in the office. It did not prepare me for the dialects spoken by the farmers, who seem to have a different dialect for each village! When they come to market, they often cannot converse with each other.
Quote from: jonclox on January 25, 2014, 08:12:23 PM
:dunce: Is English English really English or is it an amalgamation of manyCeltic, European, Roman and Greek words that have mingled through Anglo Saxon times and become 'pure English' as we know it today? :dunce:
Give the current young generation a few more years of taking English O Level GCEs all in phone text spellings and you won't recognise English.
I'm fairly fluent in Anglo-Saxon but for some reason those posts get deleted :confused1:
Quote from: Komata on January 25, 2014, 05:56:22 PM
(BTW, If anyone wonders: I am a TESOL teacher, who finds language 'evolution' a fascinating subject)
Next stop Wigan/Leyland then!
>:D
Heading for cover now!!
Quote from: newportnobby on January 25, 2014, 09:05:44 PM
I'm fairly fluent in Anglo-Saxon but for some reason those posts get deleted :confused1:
:laughabovepost: :laughabovepost:
Quote from: Lawrence on January 25, 2014, 09:31:53 PM
Quote from: Komata on January 25, 2014, 05:56:22 PM
(BTW, If anyone wonders: I am a TESOL teacher, who finds language 'evolution' a fascinating subject)
Next stop Wigan/Leyland then!
>:D
Heading for cover now!!
Last stop Fife :nerner: :D
dave :thumbsup:
Quote from: davieb on January 25, 2014, 09:58:35 PM
Quote from: Lawrence on January 25, 2014, 09:31:53 PM
Quote from: Komata on January 25, 2014, 05:56:22 PM
(BTW, If anyone wonders: I am a TESOL teacher, who finds language 'evolution' a fascinating subject)
Next stop Wigan/Leyland then!
>:D
Heading for cover now!!
Last stop Fife :nerner: :D
dave :thumbsup:
Kingdom of Fife if you don't mind :nerner: :admiration:
cheers John.
No, no, no Dave, - you don't understand - they don't speak ENGLISH in Fife....
(That's the Sasanach's tongue, mon...)
And as for Wigan! Wot DO they speak there anyway? I never have been able to work that out....
(Takes a precautionary five steps to the rear, while preparing to do a 'Bloodnock...')
Fife... a place so wonderful the big guy put whacking great Firths either side and still people insisted on going there...
Quote from: Komata on January 25, 2014, 10:47:09 PM
And as for Wigan! Wot DO they speak there anyway? I never have been able to work that out....
Let me Know when you do :hmmm:
I've lived here all my life and I still haven't worked it out yet :confused1: :laugh3:
dave :thumbsup:
Don't know about Wigan or Fife for that matter but have you noticed that not a single person in Paris speaks English, not one that I've ever found anyway. Now, some cynics say that many can, but won't out of spite. I cannot believe that, can you?
Quote from: Mark K on January 25, 2014, 11:08:28 PM
Don't know about Wigan or Fife for that matter but have you noticed that not a single person in Paris speaks English, not one that I've ever found anyway. Now, some cynics say that many can, but won't out of spite. I cannot believe that, can you?
Lots of people in Paris speak English - especially if you try and speak French to them first. Not just a French thing. I have fond memories of being in Heidelberg station and hearing
(Posh English voice loudly and slowly with exaggerated gaps between words)
"Does anyone here speak English"
(German voice from behind the ticket counter doing mock English accent in the same slow way)
"This is Germany, we speak German"
I nearly collapsed in a heap
The first German company I worked for was on the Heads of the Valleys in South Wales. We had German head office visitors like other people have mice. Our Welsh MD firmly followed his beliefs that in meetings any German could understand English if he spoke it loud enough and fast enough. The more confused they got the louder and faster he spoke - until their heads sunk onto the conference table.
When I with the RAAF and based in Butterworth (Penang) in Malaysia walking down Penang Road I was approached by two female American tourists.
In a very articulated manner manner one said to me "Do you speak English?"
To which I replied "I am sorry Madam but I only speak Australian"
Where upon she flicked back and forth through a little book she had and then said (again in an articulated manner) "Thank you very much" and then walked off.
The person I was walking with collapsed in laughter.
Kind regards
Geoff
Having lived abroad, Scandinavia, for many years I have found this thread hilarious!
Peter.
I once read a piece that suggested Parisienne waiters reputation is on account of the post revolution egalite, they don't consider themselves anyones 'servant'. So if they are treated as such they don't respond well...
I've not noticed any problems with French waiters but I've had a few funny looks ordering 'medium-rare' steaks in southern Africa where the default condition is 'well (and truly) done'.
I'ts great having English as a first language when you travel around, usually there is someone who can speak it better than you can !
I also think it's good that the language is flexible enough to accommodate all of the variations and that we can usually sort out what's actually being said. I have had some problems with the Indians living here - strange, not many problems with those actually living in India !
I agree with EP about Indian English. Does anyone know what a "godown" is ?
As for Paris, if you need to ask directions wait for someone of Indian origin to come along - they'll probably speak English. Also, if you're not English or American, tell the person where you're from - they'll be more helpful.
Finally, as has been mentioned, the concept of equality does actually exist in France, so if you are used to treating waiters/drivers like dirt in your country don't try it in Paris.
Best regards,
Joe
Quote from: joe cassidy on January 26, 2014, 11:56:52 AM
Does anyone know what a "godown" is ?
As this is a family forum, I couldn't possibly answer that :no:
As for the French - sorry, but just don't get me started
Quote from: newportnobby on January 26, 2014, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: joe cassidy on January 26, 2014, 11:56:52 AM
Does anyone know what a "godown" is ?
As this is a family forum, I couldn't possibly answer that :no:
As for the French - sorry, but just don't get me started
Godown - a warehouse in a country of southern or eastern Asia, usually near a dock :D
Well done Lawrence - you're right.
India has made it's own contibution to standard English with words like pukka, bungalow, khaki etc.
Best regards,
Joe
Having had a (rural) grammar school education, and having been taught Latin (and learnt a bit!), I found finding the local R.C. priest and talking some Latin helped. Saved having to learn half a dozen european languages, but not much help in protestant areas!
Quote from: EtchedPixels on January 25, 2014, 11:39:53 PM
Quote from: Mark K on January 25, 2014, 11:08:28 PM
Don't know about Wigan or Fife for that matter but have you noticed that not a single person in Paris speaks English, not one that I've ever found anyway. Now, some cynics say that many can, but won't out of spite. I cannot believe that, can you?
Lots of people in Paris speak English - especially if you try and speak French to them first. Not just a French thing.
Well, I once asked, in French, directions to the nearest Metro. The Frenchman looked at his wrist and replied 'Half past three!'
Mark K
As a language teacher one has some 'interesting' experiences.
As part of the 'integration process' we train individuals from immigrant groups in English language skills, so that they can in turn help others of their ethnic group to understand the 'oddities' that the English language presents. This is aimed especially at the school children. The training covers such things as adjectives, participles, verbs, nouns etc. The 'building blocks' of the language if you will.
As part of their training, these tyro teachers have to do a half-hour long presentation before a panel before they are 'passed out' as proficient.
Picture this: Beautiful, impeccably-dressed Asian lady (a resident for 20 years, a prominent busineswoman and proudly 'Kiwi'), conducting a class about 'Verbs' (ie, 'doing' words).
A wonderful presentation well researched, and well presented. A 'natural' teacher. The subject (which she had chosen)? Verbs and Adverbs
As noted, it was a wonderful presentation. The only problem (at least for some of us 'native speakers', for whom English is the first language) was that the lady simply could not pronounce the 'V' in verb and adVerb as a 'Vee', and didn't realise it!! Rather that unfortunate letter was presented as a 'W'....
It was a 'very serious' half-hour as the 'native speakers' did everything they could to 'remain calm' and not give-in to the giggles....
English!! Wot wud we do wif'-'art yuh?
This is a great thread!!
To add my own anecdote, my father was from the Durham/Yorkshire border. After the war he got a job in Cambridge. When he moved south, of course, he brought his northern vowels with him, rhyming 'glass' with 'mass'.
He had only moved into his first house a few weeks when he needed to do some DIY. He went down to the local ironmongers, as they were in those days, to pick up a few bits and pieces. He said to the assistant, in fluent Yorkshire, "I'd like a piece of glass, please." "What?" "A piece of glass, please." "Sorry, mate, never 'eard of it." "But, ye'v got a sign outside saying 'glass cut to size'." Slowly, comprehension dawned... "Oh, you mean glaaaaass!!"
Over the next 50 years my dad and Cambridge gradually learned to understand each other...
Chris
Quote from: joe cassidy on January 26, 2014, 07:41:10 PM
Well done Lawrence - you're right.
India has made it's own contibution to standard English with words like pukka, bungalow, khaki etc.
"English does not so much borrow words from other languages as mug them in dark alleys"
Nice one, Papyrus!
An ideal case in point is this prank call.
WARNING - foul language in last few seconds so I'll probably get told off or this will be deleted
Do You Deliver? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq5b0eeEF18#)
Funny!
That just reminded me of when my wife and a whole bunch of "just off the boat" Bajans were ordering Mountain Dew at a Denny's here in the USA. Well, most Americans run the word mountain together so it sounds something like Mount'n and we have a hard D in Dew. Mount'n Dew.
Bajans want to stretch out Mount'n into Mount-tan and their De sound is more a J sound so you should have seen the look on the waitress' face when one of them tried to order Mount-Tan Jew. 12-15 seconds of confusion (that felt like 3 minutes) later, things were straightened out, but we have a story that's lasted 15 years and will likely live as long as we do.
FWIW
Kiwi's and Oz's have an ongoing love-hate relationship between each other as many will know. This inevitably effects our language!!
It is a fact that New Zealander's DO speak differently from their Australian cousins, although this can at times be difficult to detect. Kiwi's use rounded vowels while the Australian tendency is to pronounce vowels in more 'nasal' way.
This has resulted in differences in pronunciation, best reflected in the way that both nations pronounce three specific words:
'Fish and Chips' and (the number) 'Six'
Australian's pronounce Fish and chips as 'feesh eeend cheeeeps'
Kiwis: 'fush uhnd chupps'
Australian's pronounce Six' as 'seeex'
Kiwi's: 'sux'
As a result. Kiwi's are always taunted by their Oz cousins about their speech and asked to say 'fish and chips' and 'six' as proof of Australia's perceived 'linguistic superiority' .
HOWEVER, all is not lost for the Kiwi's!!!
Due to large-scale emigration from New Zealand over the last 40-odd years, and the inevitable influencing of linguistic traits which this has had on the local language, 'Standard Australian English' is actually in retreat, and is largely confined to New South Wales (especially Sydney), the ACT, Victoria and parts of South Australia. Brisbane, the Gold Coast and Perth are now 'Kiwi'-ised' and the local language is now very 'Kiwi' in texture and useage.
So, given time, the genuine OZ language might become 'extinct...
Not bad for a small group of island's located 1200 miles off-shore.
I might just go and get some 'fush uhnd chupps' to celebrate...
As I said, FWIW, it's a fascinating subject.
Quote from: Komata on January 28, 2014, 11:33:38 PM
So, given time, the genuine OZ language might become 'extinct...
I thought most of the genuine OZ languages already were :P ;)
My parents came to the UK from Poland, dad having been mobilised at the start of WW2 and ending up in Italy, mum smuggled out at the end of the war (she used to make corsets for Hattie Jacques). Because Polish doesn't have a 'V' in its alphabet, the 'W' is pronounced as a 'V'. So we had a lot of 'Vy von't you vork harder at school as ve vant', though really our house language was always Polish.
One day my mother went into a hardware shop and asked to buy some 'Auntie poison'. The assistant was agast! "You want to poison your aunties, why?". Mum said "Because we have too many and they're becoming a nuisance". Tears of laughter were rolling down my cheeks as I explained that what she really wanted was 'ant poison'.
Dad could not distinguish between 'Sheet' and well I don't have to spell it out. I tried explaining but he never got it.
Mark
What Komata says is absolutey true. A few years back at the National Narrow Gauge Convention in Colorado Springs, we had a Kiwi and Ozzy at out table and immediatly 'Fush ahnd Chupps' came up in conversation. Really funny.
But you should hear the jokes we Poles have against the Czechs when it comes to languare. For instance the literal translation of the Polish version for the Czech word for 'apron' is 'two sided bum lash', or 'pigeon' is 'roof crapper'. But they sound like they are really Czech. Boy can language be funny.
Mark
If you go to some parts in the west of Scotland you will hear people speaking in a manner which makes Billy Connolly sound like Sir John Gielgud. Yesterday I heard a woman say "am urny"
meaning " I am not " when asked if she was going to some event. Other phrases eg when
discussing the weather are "It's no sae bad the day isnae it no but".Others preface their phrases
with the word "see" as in " See me , ah love chipsncurry" or "See ma wife she canny cook".
It's a funny old game.
Currently learning Klingon so I can communicate with natives of Paisley.
Agrippa
Agree about 'Scottish'. Due to 'circumstances' I was raised by two parents in two separate geographical locations, one speaking ''Proper' Home Counties-type English, the other a form of English that was heavily influenced by a very distinct dialectal form of 'Scottish' which was not too far removed from the Gaelic.
As a child it (and as children do) was of course very easy to mix the two
(sometimes 'just for fun') , which often had 'interesting' results as both families were determined that I 'speak properly', and NOT use the 'other-one's' English...
To complicate things there was also the 'national' form of English, as taught in schools.
As you can appreciate this meant that linguistically, I had a very 'interesting' childhood, and it took me years to get rid of the very-pronounced 'Burr' on some of my words. The 'Gaelic' influence was surprisingly strong.
As previously noted, I am a language teacher. Make of that what you will....
My other half Clare is Edinburgh born and bred, and only left there to come south for University twelve years ago. She has kept her accent all this time.
However, six years living with a cockney is starting to take its toll :D She's started dropping her H's - 'orse, 'ungry, 'edge'og, to name a few - and saying other non Scottish things like "cor bluddy 'ell".
We now call her accent "Jockney" ;D
Paul
Quote from: Sprintex on February 02, 2014, 05:27:56 PM
However, six years living with a cockney is starting to take its toll :D She's started dropping her H's - 'orse, 'ungry, 'edge'og, to name a few - and saying other non Scottish things like "cor bluddy 'ell".
We now call her accent "Jockney" ;D
Paul
Sounds like she's been taking elocution lessons from Arry Redknapp. :D
I'm bilingual and living away from the 'Mother' country means that the language evolves away from the original. In our case we started using a few words in Polish which were taken from English which off course meant nothing to people living in Poland. 'Ciężarówka' is one example (go on, try pronouncing it!). It means 'lorry' so we English Poles adopted the much shorter 'lora' instead. OK in the UK but in Poland? When I first got there in 1966, when travel restrictions were lifted, I got some very strange looks, though I was (and still am fluent). But I had to adjust my vocabulary PDQ.
BTW we did the Hoek Van Holland - Krakow trip by rail usually by steam from the East - West German border, sometimes earlier (never in Holland IIRC, always electric). Usually got delayed by a few hours, on one occasion our carriage hitch-hiked from East Berlin to Krakow and we were 24 hours late. Halcyon days.
Mark K.
Polishman goes to the optician, who asks him if he can see the bottom line on the chart on the wall. ''See it?", says the Pole, "He's a good friend of mine".
Quote from: Mark K on February 02, 2014, 06:10:30 PM
Polishman goes to the optician, who asks him if he can see the bottom line on the chart on the wall. ''See it?", says the Pole, "He's a good friend of mine".
:smiley-laughing:
How about the Irish guy who goes to the opticians. The optician asks him to close one eye and read the chart. Paddy can't close one eye - it's both or nothing - but the optician has an idea. He takes a Cornflakes box and cuts a hole in it at eye level. "Try this Paddy" he says. Paddy replies, "It's very nice but I'd rather have a pair with gold rimmed frames like my mate"
Sorry if you've heard it before (it's an old one).
Best regards,
Joe
Quote from: joe cassidy on February 02, 2014, 06:47:53 PM
Sorry if you've heard it before (it's an old one).
I have and it is! :D
As you know, the French have a few problems with English.
Sometimes it's difficult to know whether they want to :
- hit you
- hate you
or
- eat you.
On the other hand, English speakers can have problems in pronouncing the French vowels "ou" and "u" correctly, which can cause problems/laughter because :
cou = neck
cul = backside
Vive la différence !
Joe
Reminds me of the story about Winston Churchill during WW2. General De Gaulle was
in London for a meeting with Churchill. Churchill's secretary warned Winston that being French, when they meet De Gaulle would want to kiss him on both cheeks.
Churchill replied "He can kiss me on all four if it will help shorten the war !".
And then, of course there are the Asian languages, especially Mandarin and Japanese which are tonal, and give absolutely NO indication in their written form as to how they should be pronounced....
To an English-speaker, these are 'deadly' as the slightest (unintentional) intonation can give a completely different meaning to what is intended and cause immense mirth to the 'native speaking' listeners. The 'Foreigner' of course has no idea about the 'gaff' he has committed...
The results can be 'interesting', and in a restaurant it can be gastronomically 'educational' when one is confronted with the results of a 'tonally-incorrect' order....
Without getting into any controversy, no doubt as a result of such experiences, perhaps the 'English' had the right idea during the 'Empire' era, when they insisted on the use of their own language as the 'standard' for communication. In India (for example) where there are at least 500 different languages in one country (as it was then) it made perfect sense..
There were of course 'unintended consequences' of such actions. Spike Milligan and Peter Sellars come to mind... ('nuff said).
Quote from: Komata on February 02, 2014, 08:39:02 PM
And then, of course there are the Asian languages, especially Mandarin and Japanese which are tonal, and give absolutely NO indication in their written form as to how they should be pronounced....
Pedantically speaking Mandarin doesn't have a written form. China has a set of many spoken languages and a written language that isn't any of them but a separate symbolic language because it uses symbols for concepts. It's not really tied to any spoken language - which was precisely the idea.
The only real 'western' analogy is the (entirely non western) number system. The squiggle '2' you read as "two", a German reads as "zwei" but to both it is the same concept. '2' is not English or German or French - its a symbol for a concept.
Makes the dictionary really really interesting!
Japanese is a bit complicated - some of it is pronunciation some is not. If you are going to Japan take photos of things you might need (toilet, sandwich, train, taxi(japanese one!)) because you can then wave your phone at someone and get directions.
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Without getting into any controversy, no doubt as a result of such experiences, perhaps the 'English' had the right idea during the 'Empire' era, when they insisted on the use of their own language as the 'standard' for
This was actually of course well tested by then. They same was done within England with 'chancery English' because it was no good getting answers from other parts of the country in English given it might as well have been in martian at the time. Chancery actually began the meaningful standardisation of handwriting, grammar and vocabulary and to an extent spelling (although English never succeeded in fixing spelling - or grammar in places).
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communication. In India (for example) where there are at least 500 different languages in one country (as it was then) it made perfect sense..
There were of course 'unintended consequences' of such actions. Spike Milligan and Peter Sellars come to mind... ('nuff said).
English is actually a quite bizarre language in many ways. In Welsh for example I can accurately read out an entire document without having a clue what I am reading - because the spelling is phonetic (we just hide the decoder ring).
Alan
My recent Torchwood binge allowed me to hear a lot of the Welsh accent (though I figure not hard-core or "country" or some sort of hard to decipher regional version of it) and I love it. Just so unique, and for me, really hard to replicate as an American. It's so distinct. I find it to be sort of musical in relation to other accents from the UK and Ireland.