Rather than hijack Ben's thread about NGS modern models, I felt a new thread might be a good place to address the "Electrics Don't Sell" argument. As a purveyor of EMU conversions, I have a few thoughts to offer.
The Farish 350 is lovely unit but an odd subject with very limited appeal, as it is so recent and limited to the WCML. The lack of a Pendolino means modern WCML operations may not the the first choice for many modellers. It's a shame Dapol didn't further develop their catenary range.
Class 411 4-CEP - an excellent unit that has inspired a lot of modellers to try their hand at something Southern, as the lack of a conductor rail can be overlooked more easily than overheads. It seems to have been reasonably popular and appears on a lot of layouts and the long life of the unit makes it appealing to steam-era modellers.
I wonder if the 4-CIG would have proved more popular. The CEPs were refurbished in the 1980s but the CIGs kept their original layout until the end and carried a plethora of different liveries.
If I were to win the EuroMillions, I'd commission the Class 319 Thameslink and 4-CIG right away!
I would have thought some of the 2 car units, or perhaps something more steam era would be more of a logical choice. Difficult to do with any generality except for 3rd rail stuff but I'd have thought 4SUBS, 2BILs, 2HAL etc as more obvious options.
How is the 313 doing ?
Alan
I would certainly think that the 4CIG, 2/4EPB's and 4SUB's would be the most popular. The CEP was a strange choice IMO. However, it is a wonderful model that Farish have made.
304, 310, 321, 323 plus Pendo please, for a WCML "set" covering three eras.
Are you listening Mr Bachmann........?
Your hopefully
Jon :)
We have managed to sell a few kits and one Class 508 with wrong underframes. I am about to draw up the 507/508 underframes then get them on order from Shapeways.
I am currently awaiting feedback from some of these purchases to see how well they have gone together.
I agree that an unrefurbed 4CEP and the 350 were a bit of odd choices.
A 321 would have been more logical for a WCML EMU given Bachmann's range of HST, 87 and 90. The 350 doesn't really work without a Pendolino, though it does have the benefit of opening potential other Desiro based units, though why they haven't done the obvious one of the 450 is beyond me...
Sometimes it feels like Bachmann (in 4mm and 2mm) go out of their way to pick variants/models that won't sell just to be able to say they told us so. Of course that it isn't the reality, but some of the decision-making is decidely odd.
Cheers, Mike
I would have thought that the 2/4 EPB would have sold as well. Don't know how well the OO 2EPB sold anyone know? Still want another 465 unit(s) but I know that it is limited in its appeal - so am not expecting a commercially available RTR model
I can understand this to an extent. In the steam era they were just plain boring. We would stand on Brentwood Station as Gresley A4 Pacifics blasted through and when it came to our turn to get on a train it was always a boring green electric thing with big yellow bell pushes by the door. When we got to Surrey it was the same story - Bulleid Pacifics to get you fired up - and another boring green electric thing with yellow buttons to actually ride in.
After all that disappointment who can be surprised model ones don't sell?
Quote from: EtchedPixels on January 24, 2014, 09:56:25 PM
I would have thought some of the 2 car units, or perhaps something more steam era would be more of a logical choice. Difficult to do with any generality except for 3rd rail stuff but I'd have thought 4SUBS, 2BILs, 2HAL etc as more obvious options.
How is the 313 doing ?
Alan
Have to agree with you. Both EMU's made by Bachmann have a limited area of operation. It would make more sense to sell a common user example.
Dodger
Quote from: ParkeNd on January 25, 2014, 12:06:18 AM
I can understand this to an extent. In the steam era they were just plain boring. We would stand on Brentwood Station as Gresley A4 Pacifics blasted through and when it came to our turn to get on a train it was always a boring green electric thing with big yellow bell pushes by the door. When we got to Surrey it was the same story - Bulleid Pacifics to get you fired up - and another boring green electric thing with yellow buttons to actually ride in.
After all that disappointment who can be surprised model ones don't sell?
It's funny.... I grew up in NE England very close to the ECML and didn't take a lot of notice of Gresley Pacifics!
On the other hand, the VERY first time I ever had a go at controlling a model train was a neighbour's oval of track running Triang's attempt at a green Southern EMU set!
So I guess it all depends on your perspective.... I find SR emus quite fascinating, and at the risk of offending their fans, - cute. ;D
I never grew up in the area, so they are exotic to me! I don't know jack-you-know-what about 'em, but that Farish model has a thumbs up from me. :thumbsup:
George
Quote from: dodger on January 25, 2014, 07:52:58 AM
Have to agree with you. Both EMU's made by Bachmann have a limited area of operation. It would make more sense to sell a common user example.
Dodger
I have a suggested a few times elsewhere, 304, 305 & 308 families of units are pretty widespread across the country, and quite a few liveries too!
As the 4CEPs as modelled by Bachmann were first introduced in 1959, they could run alongside steam and early diesels, which meant they appealed to the 1950s/60s "transition era" modellers, probably the biggest market in British prototype modelling.
I can only guess Farish went for the Desiros because they've gone for a dual voltage type that has spread their wings geographically (now running up to Scotland) with consideration of liveries both present and future. It'll be interesting if they'll bring out the First Transpennine's version which enters service this year.
Admittedly an Electrostar type would have been a better choice in my view, in terms of the number of liveries they've carried.
Sometimes the choice of prototype depends on how much cooperation model manufacturers get from train operators and preservation groups.
Quote from: ParkeNd on January 25, 2014, 12:06:18 AM
I can understand this to an extent. In the steam era they were just plain boring. We would stand on Brentwood Station as Gresley A4 Pacifics blasted through and when it came to our turn to get on a train it was always a boring green electric thing with big yellow bell pushes by the door. When we got to Surrey it was the same story - Bulleid Pacifics to get you fired up - and another boring green electric thing with yellow buttons to actually ride in.
After all that disappointment who can be surprised model ones don't sell?
When I was growing up, what was left of the steamers were laid up and rusting in sidings or leaking sheds! There was nothing better than seeing a working EMU flying through the stations on our journey home! ;) :D
Surely sooner or later they're going to have to make (remake?) the electric locos at least? There can't be many diesels that haven't been produced as good quality models in the last few years. So if Farish and Dapol want to issue something new for the 'modern image' modeller, perhaps the electrics might fit the bill?
I think it's interesting that little/no effort has been put into transition era electrics; those electric blue liveries seem quite eye-catching to me. My assumption has always been more models are bought because they're pretty than because they're needed to model a particular time and place where a layout is set. In other words, Rule 1 prompts more purchases than anything else! So wouldn't an electric blue AL6 seem a logical (and inexpensive) tweak to the existing Dapol range of Class 86s?
But sales of the existing 86s do seem rather patchy if they on-again, off-again deep discounts on existing models are anything to go by. Shame really; I've got three Dapol 86s and they're absolute gems, really lovely models, especially with the updated pantographs.
On the Farish side, the 87s and 90s surely need updating.
I wonder how well the DC electrics would sell though? The 76s and 77s seem to be popular on the rail forums, but would they sell as models? I'd love one or two, simply because they ooze character (in my opinion) with their rather dinosaur-like clunkiness and total lack of delicacy. I've also though the 71s and 74s looked nifty too.
(Note: I'd gladly make any of these in kit form if someone made a straightforward one, but I've not had much luck tracking one down.)
Cheers, NeMo
My first memories of trains was of seeing 3rd rail EMUs on the Chatham-Victoria line, which was at the far end of a school playing field overlooked by my bedroom. I can also remember being taken down to my local station by my mum to watch the trains (probably aged 3, which would make it 1979), we didn't make many train journeys so it always seemed like a special event when we did. As a result I had to buy the 4CEP in blue-grey because it was the closest thing I could get to the trains I remembered. One day I'll build a layout where it is at home. If there were an all over blue one I'd buy that too and I'd even buy a NSE one even if it is wrong. I'd also buy a 2EPB, 4CIG and class 465 (I think that's the right type). It always frustrated me that EMU stock was never part of the Hornby range when I was growing up; it seemed like a major part of the modern railway had been completely overlooked.
Nostalgia is quite a powerful force, when I was young EMUs were the 'real railway' with locomotives only seen on goods trains. I wish I'd seen loco hauled passenger services back then. But I'm looking forward to recreating a small part of that past world.
Quote from: Greybeema on January 24, 2014, 11:54:25 PM
I would have thought that the 2/4 EPB would have sold as well. Don't know how well the OO 2EPB sold anyone know? Still want another 465 unit(s) but I know that it is limited in its appeal - so am not expecting a commercially available RTR model
A Liverpool box-shifter has the all blue and the blue/grey 2EPBs heavily discounted with the green version costing more.
The blue/grey type represents a post-1989 version with sealed headlights, NSE "Kent Link" stickers and red stripe above the compartments.
On the other hand the Collectors' Club NSE liveried limited edition of 504 pieces sold out pretty quickly.
A 2HAP would have been more popular as they reached further out of London down to the coast compared with the 2EPBs (I would have bought a pair if available)
Quote from: Tank on January 25, 2014, 09:27:29 AM
Quote from: ParkeNd on January 25, 2014, 12:06:18 AM
I can understand this to an extent. In the steam era they were just plain boring. We would stand on Brentwood Station as Gresley A4 Pacifics blasted through and when it came to our turn to get on a train it was always a boring green electric thing with big yellow bell pushes by the door. When we got to Surrey it was the same story - Bulleid Pacifics to get you fired up - and another boring green electric thing with yellow buttons to actually ride in.
After all that disappointment who can be surprised model ones don't sell?
When I was growing up, what was left of the steamers were laid up and rusting in sidings or leaking sheds! There was nothing better than seeing a working EMU flying through the stations on our journey home! ;) :D
I was born 1947 so aware of trains say 1952 at age 5. Steam trains still in service on passenger trains in 1963 when I last travelled home by steam train (Cranleigh Snail as far as Guilford) when 16 years old.
I don't think it is as simple a case as 'electrics don't sell', rather that they don't sell well enough yet.
Give it another ten years and you will see them in abundance - the popular modelling eras are slowly moving forward as nostalgia creep works it's way through the decades. Transition and blue periods are rising as these are the areas the bulk of the hobbyists remember - which seems to be about 45 years in the past (matches typical age of a railway modeller's childhood), so by 2025 we should see plenty of interest in the 1989s scene, of which electrics are a major part.
David
Good thread.
Dapol Class 86s are one of the finest models of an electric loco in any scale, and yet 250 blue ones - in two different numbers - haven't sold out at the retailer who commisioned them. Pretty much all variants of the 86 can still be bought.
All variants of the 4-CEP and 350 are still in stock in Bachmann's warehouse.
The 4-CEP was chosen because it is a good fit with transition steam/diesel era; the 350 because it's attractive, widespread, not as complex as a Pendolino (far fewer bodyshells needed) and the manufacturer and TOC were cooperative.
Dapol have done easy, cheap and good looking catenary posts. Yes, gantries still have to be kit built (and N brass offer a fine range) but they're pretty straightforward and easy to paint.
There is good quality Mk2 and Mk3 coaching stock along with appropriate DVTs. There are plenty of wagons.
There isn't a Pendolino but 350s operate in plenty of areas where Pendolinos are uncommon - Northampton loop, numerous lines in the West Midlands. The "pretendolino" rake is available. Or run a Virgin Voyager and pretend it's a Pendolino with a little imagination!
I think sometimes we just have to be realistic in our expectations and maybe accept that enthusiasts have a part to play in growing the hobby as much as manufacturers by supporting them as they go.
cheers
Ben A.
The 350s have been discounted lately especially the Silverlink version.
However, if they reappeared in the range as the South West Trains class 450 it'll generate more sales because they run alongside intermodal and other freight services. I could see quite a few layouts based in "somewhere in Hampshire and/or Dorset" which feature 450s, Cross Country, Freightliner, DBS and other private and charter operators.
Although vinyls are available from Electra for the above, most would prefer a mass-market RTR version.
Apart from removing the pantograph, the biggest issue is getting permission from SWT to reproduce their livery.
With the privatisation era, the main issue is not only getting permission from the TOC for reproduction, but also paying for the right to do so.
Fox Transfers ran into this issue so they had to stop selling DBS/EWS transfers.
My layout is LMS themed, but under "Rule 1" I would buy one of the BR bo-bo LM region electric locos in the original blue/white livery.
I think that this could be a winner in the same way that the prototype Deltic and Blue Pullman have been succesful.
Best regards,
Joe
Anything that stands out distinctively, livery wise, in the 1960s transition era, could be strong sellers, electric loco and multiple unit candidates below:
AL1-AL5 (class 81-85) electrics
original Glasgow "Blue Trains" (class 303)
Clacton EMUs (class 309) in maroon
Model Rail magazine are doing a limited edition of the SWT Class 450 in OO, using the existing Bachmann 350 as a base, minus roof fittings. I predict it will be a big hit.
I also think that electrics will sell if they made the right ones
E.g IMHO they chose the wrong Desiro - there are a lot more 450s than 350s on the Big Railway (plus, of course, it is SWT :D). The 350 is a nice model though.
I am hopeful that Arnold might decide to shrink the Hornby Pendolino - a truly beautiful iconic train and also much liked my kids (of which I am one - if a little old :D).
After the success of the Olympics, maybe Kato might convert it's white sonic into a Javelin? :pleasesign:
Quote from: gc4946 on January 26, 2014, 10:25:32 AM
Apart from removing the pantograph
That modification would be unnecessary as the Electric Spine project will see OHLE installed between Basingstoke and Southampton docks.
However if Farish were clever in the redesign of the pantograph well, only partially filling the holes to leave a flat top surface with recesses inside the coach body, then by simply including a pantograph they would offer the 450 as it is now as well as giving each modeller the opportunity to update it to 2019 specification.
Of course the licensing hurdle has to be jumped first.
Nigel
Discussions such as this generally quickly become cases of 'I'd buy one of these, so if I would, it's bound to be a success', assuming that everyone else wants the same models.
And to me that is the biggest problem facing N gauge, exemplified by Ben Ando's polling interest for specific current era editions (and his exasperation in trying to make it clear that CURRENT means current, not Network Southeast or similar...) and finding little interest.
The problem is that the number of actively purchasing British N gauge modellers, though small, is thankfully large enough to sustain the hobby overall, but because interest in railways is so diverse in both geography and history, individual models often only appeal to such a small proportion of potential buyers as to make them financially unviable.
Electrics fall into this category - his many people (seriously, across the country) would buy a woodhead electric say, or a Pendolino? Enough to sell 2-3000 units? Given there are only around 10,000 n gauge modellers active in the UK, our interests are too fragmented for the numbers to stack up on many potentially lovely models.
We have to remember our hobby is tiny in comparison to OO (no pun intended), and the only way we get what we do is thanks to the shrink ray effect of OO stock subsidising the research and design of N (and now with Dapol effectively going the ther way and maximising their designs into O and OO from N).
We all want different things, which is great, but we shouldn't confuse wanting something with it being financially viable.
David
Quote from: Bmthtrains on January 26, 2014, 12:56:23 PM
We have to remember our hobby is tiny in comparison to OO (no pun intended), and the only way we get what we do is thanks to the shrink ray effect of OO stock subsidising the research and design of N (and now with Dapol effectively going the ther way and maximising their designs into O and OO from N).
We all want different things, which is great, but we shouldn't confuse wanting something with it being financially viable.
David
I agree the small diverse UK market is the main issue in N and has to rely in part on cross-subsidy of research and production from other scales in the mass RTR market.
If Model Rail's SWT limited edition Desiro in OO sells out quickly it might give some indication whether that could also be done in N.
Due to licensing and cost issues some TOC liveries may not be viable to a manufacturer except for a short production run or only being available by applying transfers or vinyls to existing models.
Quote from: gc4946 on January 26, 2014, 01:34:25 PMIf Model Rail's SWT limited edition Desiro in OO sells out quickly it might give some indication whether that could also be done in N.
Well if ModelRail can afford a licence from SWT then I'm sure that Farish could as well.
Nigel
Quote from: Bmthtrains on January 26, 2014, 12:56:23 PM
Electrics fall into this category - his many people (seriously, across the country) would buy a woodhead electric say, or a Pendolino? Enough to sell 2-3000 units?
Hi David,
I take your point generally - but I do wonder if a Pendo might sell OK, as it seems very popular with kids as it is fast, sexy and tilts. I can imagine a Pendo trainset doing quite well - though I guess I stand to be proven wrong if anyone knows how the OO variant fared.
Cheers Jon :)
Hello Jon,
Re: SWT licence. Although both Farish could probably find the cash for an SWT licence, and to fund the production of the models, that money is then not available for other projects. As budgets are not unlimited, Farish will tend to use heir budget for items that are more likely to give a quicker return.
Re: Pendolino trainset. I suspect that this would be popular, and I'd like to see one. But I to make financial sense it would probably be truncated - maybe a compromise with two driving cars and two intermediate cars - a bit like the original Hornby HST set. Then I can imagine the chorus of complaints|
cheers
Ben A.
i must admit i think the 350's are fine, don't forget they run on 3rd rail aswell . and yes a pendo is missing but not really a problem as you can on the norton bridge line find only 350's and 221's . so for n gauge wcml you have 350's , 86's ,90's and the 221's so they is stuff to run with them . i would if i had a fixed layout , have OHL .
Quote from: Ben A on January 26, 2014, 03:36:47 PM
But I to make financial sense it would probably be truncated - maybe a compromise with two driving cars and two intermediate cars - a bit like the original Hornby HST set. Then I can imagine the chorus of complaints|
I suspect you are right - but no complaints would come from from me - a big cheezy grin like this :D
Cheers Jon :)
Are we not in danger here of generalising? To say "Electrics" is like say "Diesels" or "Steam". There is an endless choice of Class 66's (well there would be if everything in the various catalogues were available), and a lot of Diesel types being developed...
So I don't suppose that Farish/Dapol et al are focused on a particular genre but more on what they think they can sell. What is the criteria that the model manufacturers use to decide on what they will produce?
Ultimately it must be down to sales - do we know how they make a decision on what they can sell? If we did, we might stand more of a chance of asking for something they will make.
I guess that most Electric Traction units are limited in the Area of operation and thus would not necessarily sell well...Personally I model current day Southeastern. So a Desiro, although a good model, is no use to me and I wont buy one. I do however recognise that for those that model their area of operation they would but they would not buy a 465 Networker...
What we really need is the TOC standardise on one class...
Quote from: Greybeema on January 26, 2014, 04:24:37 PM
What we really need is the TOC standardise on one class...
4VEP, anyone?
Seriously, it was the one class which you could see in Bournemouth and Ramsgate, and all points in between.
Quote from: talisman56 on January 26, 2014, 04:27:14 PM
4VEP, anyone?
Yes please! These ran a few yards from my bedroom window growing up, and were always very obliging when it came to flattening pennies on the White Hart Lane level crossing!
Oddly enough though, I noticed I took very few photos of them. Funny how at the time one never bothers to record what seems so commonplace. Will people twenty or thirty years from now be reminiscing about London Midland 350s?
Cheers, NeMo
Ah, yes, the Pendolino would be nice in RTR, but again, it is misreading the N gauge market I think to assume it would work 'as a train set'. The toy or trainset market exists in OO, but does it in N?
Given the Farish boxes come with the labelling 'adult collectors item, not suitable for children under the age of 14', the few train sets they do sell are certainly to adults re-entering the market.
I think most children would rather have a Hornby set than a Farish one as the train (and the all important box) is bigger . Equally, I think most parents would be happier giving an OO set as they are less fragile or likely to get accidentally trodden on.
If we want an RTR Pendolino, there's got to be about 3,000 people who want to fork out £250 for a full set...and that's 3000 adults. Given Farish or Dapol's zero penetration into the toy market (ever seen n gauge in toys r us?) gives another indication of how lucky we are to have what we have given we don't have this massive complimentary market to subsidise our high-end modelling interests.
We are living in a golden age for model railways, but shouldn't forget we are all focused on a minor scale.
That all said, if anyone fancies setting up a crowd sourced funding arrangement to get 3,000 orders for a Pendolino agreed and then place a commission with Farish or Dapol, I'm sure they'd happily take our money and provide the models...
David
Quote from: Bmthtrains on January 26, 2014, 05:10:48 PM
That all said, if anyone fancies setting up a crowd sourced funding arrangement to get 3,000 orders for a Pendolino agreed and then place a commission with Farish or Dapol, I'm sure they'd happily take our money and provide the models...
I'll take two. 2998 to go!
Cheers Jon :)
Quote from: Bmthtrains on January 26, 2014, 05:10:48 PM
That all said, if anyone fancies setting up a crowd sourced funding arrangement to get 3,000 orders for a Pendolino agreed and then place a commission with Farish or Dapol, I'm sure they'd happily take our money and provide the models...
David
Therein lies the rub... There's 3163 of us on the forum (just looked at the member list), not all are active, so you won't get anywhere near 3000 from just NGF. This is because you've got people like me, who wouldn't want a Pendolino, but if you were talking 4CORs (and derivatives) or 1932 Brighton electrification stock (PUL, PAN, LAV, BIL) then you've got me for several of each.
Other people would like other models (the Clacton '309' stock is one I have seen listed many times on wishlists elsewhere) and others wouldn't know what they wanted unless you presented them with a completed model. How many people model in 'N' gauge to the detail we obviously do, anyway? Unless you can determine that and tailor your offerings accordingly, you're never going to make money or satisfy people's needs.
The manufacturers obviously have the problem in spades because they're the ones whose livelihoods depend on them making the right decisions, and sometimes they can get things spectacularly wrong. The fact that there are still 4Ceps and 350s in stock at the Farish warehouse is obviously a worry for all concerned: Farish because that have all this money tied up in stock going nowhere; and the customer, because that will be the reason that Farish and the like won't go out on a limb and produce the very things that people want but the manufacturers can't sell in the quantities that make economic sense.
But then this situation is where the 3rd party manufacturers (read: kit manufacturers and 'cottage industries') come in and produce what we need for those that have the time, inclination and skill to put together...
The Pendolino was always going to be a tall order using standard production techniques due to the sheer amount of differing window / roof layouts on all the coaches.
With some clever design techniques, such as separate roof modules and a GF-style clear printed bodyshell, the amount of different mouldings could be brought right down, perhaps making a more viable proposition. Whatever transpires, there would have to be one or two compromises.
Perhaps when the WCML franchise changes hands or 390 derivaives appear on other routes, their popularity may increase.
Farish dropped the 222 from their range when it became apparent that all the four coaches were different and the tooling costs would never be recovered. Had they used a 170-style clear shell, then it may not have been such an issue.
Please don't let my liking for the clear shell technique be mistaken as a bias due to their vinylability :angel: - I believe that they are almost as good as standard moulded shells on modern, smooth-sided stock.
I agree with Adam on this to an extent, I would certainly be happy to see cleverly designed models with less detail on them, and the clear sided coaches in N are a good compromise.
I actually prefer the Farish mk3s to the Dapol ones, the windows look better
David
Quote from: Bmthtrains on January 26, 2014, 05:10:48 PM
Ah, yes, the Pendolino would be nice in RTR, but again, it is misreading the N gauge market I think to assume it would work 'as a train set'. The toy or trainset market exists in OO, but does it in N?
David
Yes - in Japan where N is big news and it could be big news for the UK. I could see a Kato unitrack bullet train set selling well on shopping channels like QVC. It fits the bill of being small (rooms are getting smaller), bulletproof, easy to pack away etc.
Sorry for a second bite at the cherry, but I just popped over to 'another place' to check on the results of their 2013 Wishlist Poll. A link to the 'N' Gauge overall results is below.
Their member list is only about a third of the NGF and in the results of the poll the highest polled item in 'N' gauge only got 68 votes - joint second (with a loco) was a railway-related scenery item!
...and the Pendolino was top of the 'EMU' section
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_id=276133 (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_id=276133)
I think a Virgin-branded 390 trainset with Kato-style track would be a big seller in N and do a lot to encourage younger modellers looking for something with the "wow" factor.
The current crop of UK N Gauge trainsets are pretty dire in that respect. If Auntie Mabel is looking for a present for her train-mad nephew, is she going to buy a rather dull-looking N Gauge set with, say, a J39 or a brightly-boxed Hornby Pendolino or Javelin?
Farish and Dapol could both do with a much better trainset offering to compete with Hornby next Christmas.
Quote from: talisman56 on January 26, 2014, 05:32:15 PM
But then this situation is where the 3rd party manufacturers (read: kit manufacturers and 'cottage industries') come in and produce what we need for those that have the time, inclination and skill to put together...
In my experience electrics don't sell. Even in the kit world.
Pendowobble maybe - but David presumably will get back around to re-doing that once he's bored of printing yellow stuff.
Alan
If we're talking about a younger market then I see no reason that a new generation of train sets in N shouldn't be able to compete, but they need lights and sound straight out of the box, simple and solid Unitrack style trackage, plug and play controllers and features such as the trains and sounds controllable from an iPhone via a downloadable app or the ability to plan your trainset expansion, buildings, scenery etc on a computer.
Cheers
Ben A.
I think Ben A may be pointing us in the direction to expand N gauge as opposed to TT, OO or bigger.
But what about us oldies stuck with steam, transition, corporate blue and so on.
If us oldies could accept shorter runs to let the kiddies get what enthuses them, so be it. Bring on the youngsters.
On the other hand, do we need any hardware - animated pictures on a tablet anyone ?
Hi
If Bachmann or Dapol bought out any of these I probably would by them,A 2 Bil,2 Nol,2 Hap,2 Sap,4 Lav,4 Res,4 Cor,4 Sub,2 and 4 Epb some of these started in SR Green then BR Green and Finally BR Blue,I think the Hap Sap and Epb lasted into NSE,they had a long life.
Mike
From my own point of view, I'd absolutely love a couple of class 304s, more than anything else at all in fact. The problem is though that even though the 'family' has a huge geographical spread from London, throughout the Midlands and up to Edinburgh, they monopolised the lines they ran on. There was almost nothing else to see alongside them the majority of the time until they reached the main line, which severely restricts their interest. Perhaps their best location was from Wolverhampton through BNS to Coventry and the Walsall service. At least there they had class 310/312 and 323 units to contend with on stopping services, HSTs and diesel hauled NE/SW services as well as the London Euston electric hauled traffic, plus the freight...but the ONLY stations with any operational interest in the area from a modelling point of view is Aston and Stechford. Bescot, Coventry, Duddeston and Wolves all being too big to be practical and B'ham International is clinically boring, and all of the other intermediate stops are two track affairs with their freight facilities long gone. Its exactly what stops me from kit building a class 304, or buying an electric loco to try and talk myself into it. The only layout that I can think of to do them justice would be little more than a tail chasing continuous loop with no station and based on the few miles between Aston and Duddeston in the '80s. And I'd soon bore of that. Not to mention the fact that class 115/116/117 DMUs and 310/312 EMUs which are essential to the idea are also only available as kits, if at all.
Rambling on, I know...but there is precicely the problem, no matter which is chosen, there is so little to run them alongside because electrified lines (particularly OHLE) are either trunk routes too large to model reasonably, or with so little variety on them that they're stagnant. The few interesting locations that existed are so restricted by a lack of available models that unless you're confident in your kit building you'll have a difficult time achieving a decent representation. If you're going to have an electric (MU or loco), it takes a commitment to make more than just one, you really should pick a location and produce a couple that ran side by side for a long period of time. The class 86s(and 87/90) bedfellow is the class 304/305/308 or class 310/312, the support act is high density DMUs. Between these three you cover most of the WCML and branches thereof from the mid '60s up to the mid '90s, plus opens up offshoots like the LTSR (London Tilsbury) and GEML (Great Eastern).
I won't even start on the Southern! That just seems to me to be one design for a specific route, and a whole mess of other designs for other routes...the OHLE route restrictions for certain classes are simple by comparison. But again it boils down to the same problem where you need to pick a series of designs, not just one, that covers the largest possible area and time frame.
Quote from: captainelectra on January 26, 2014, 06:04:21 PM
I think a Virgin-branded 390 trainset with Kato-style track would be a big seller in N and do a lot to encourage younger modellers looking for something with the "wow" factor.
The current crop of UK N Gauge trainsets are pretty dire in that respect. If Auntie Mabel is looking for a present for her train-mad nephew, is she going to buy a rather dull-looking N Gauge set with, say, a J39 or a brightly-boxed Hornby Pendolino or Javelin?
Farish and Dapol could both do with a much better trainset offering to compete with Hornby next Christmas.
When I went over to N, I was specifically looking for a Voyager starter set and whilst Farish did an OO version they did not do an N. Thought about the Regional Commuter set but wasn't really attracted to the train. So it was a Kato track set that I bought with Eurostar :thumbsup: and that started me getting Continental EMUs.
Eurostar may be a bit fiddly to connect for young kids but the Kato bullet trains are practically bulletproof :D So, in an ideal world, I'd want Kato to make the Pendolino and to use bullet train style couplings.
I can't see much happening soon to resolve this issue. There's a shortage of production capacity especially for non-Kader products, even Hornby's having supply difficulties leading to long waits for new releases.
As it's being sold directly by Hornby, if its Arnold's Brighton Belle sells well, a Pendolino could follow in the same way because they can say they'll bringing out something that's contemporary and can shrink it from their OO counterpart.
Oooooh hope it's a 465 or at least 466 all they need do is apply the shrink ray… (still won't sell though). Live and dream, live and dream…
Quote from: gc4946 on January 28, 2014, 06:35:39 PM
I can't see much happening soon to resolve this issue. There's a shortage of production capacity especially for non-Kader products
I am not sure capacity is the issue any more - it's the complications of moving stuff around and finding good supplier and building new connections
Hornby is currently moving to using a bunch of new suppliers for example
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/919ca99e-84ca-11e3-a793-00144feab7de.html#axzz2rj92OBDv (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/919ca99e-84ca-11e3-a793-00144feab7de.html#axzz2rj92OBDv)
Ho