As you may know, electrics and I don't mix at all (it is a completely black hole as far as I'm concerned) but I'd like to install street & platform lights and also install (eventually) lights in buildings.
I had a set of street lights for Christmas but..........how do I wire them up to make them work ? What do I need ?
They are 12v ...........please respond in completely "non technical" terms !
LED or bulb lights ?
LED is slightly more complicated but not a lot.
Bulb.....I think.
If you have any packaging, can you please post all the "tech" details as this will help in giving the answer. Bill.
A picture would help greatly ;)
cheers John.
Another idea i used with these Ratio lights ............. the main part of the streetlamp has had brass tube added with SMD's in the light part on motor wind wire, the light over the doors is also an SMD ;)
(http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx242/nickorwin/6d18701c-bcac-4251-8657-70858a84c4e0_zpsa37f2088.jpg) (http://s760.photobucket.com/user/nickorwin/media/6d18701c-bcac-4251-8657-70858a84c4e0_zpsa37f2088.jpg.html)
Here's the picture....
(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu257/martinscane/lights_zpse9af656e.jpg) (http://s653.photobucket.com/user/martinscane/media/lights_zpse9af656e.jpg.html)
They came from Joe Kyte and all it says on the packet is 12v.
Can I just wire them to a battery or can I use a controller - if so do I need something complicated like a resistor ?
I am sure those are bulbs so all you need do is apply 12V for them to illuminate ;)
cheers John.
Quote from: port perran on December 28, 2013, 10:12:40 AM
Here's the picture....
(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu257/martinscane/lights_zpse9af656e.jpg) (http://s653.photobucket.com/user/martinscane/media/lights_zpse9af656e.jpg.html)
They came from Joe Kyte and all it says on the packet is 12v.
Can I just wire them to a battery or can I use a controller - if so do I need something complicated like a resistor ?
I have emailed Joe kyte in the past and got a very rapid response if in doubt try him.
Jerry
As 'most' controllers have a 16v fixed output, I have in the past used one of these:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370865738133?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D370865738133%26_rdc%3D1 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370865738133?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D370865738133%26_rdc%3D1)
Hi Port Perran,
Glad you posted this as am crap at electrics too and was thinking about getting some lights for platforms and a seafront promenade.
No offence to the guys who have answered but unless I'm getting it wrong, I'm still in the dark (literally). Don't want to answer for you but certainly for me, need a real 'idiot's guide' which is what I thought you asked for.
I'm a gardener and if someone asked about 'how to prune roses' I wouldn't answer 'buy some secateurs and prune them'.
Prob being unfair. Got man flu so bit tetchy. Happy Christmas everyone. Good luck with the lights and hope I can learn too.
Cheers weave
I'm glad I'm not alone because I too am none the wiser.
Is there (as Weave suggests) a guide to this.
I still have no real idea as to how to make the lights work I'm afraid (but thanks to those who have replied anyway).
It's basically the same as Xmas treelights with bulbs. One wire to the + and one to the -
and join the lights in a chain. (In series) . I can't remember the effect of several bulbs if they will give full brightness, forgotten the formula years ago but try a dry run on the bulbs with
crocodile clips to see the effect before fitting them to the layout. If you don't want to do
wiring you could always use fibre optics and only 1 bulb would be needed.
Quote from: Agrippa on December 28, 2013, 05:18:51 PM
I can't remember the effect of several bulbs if they will give full brightness, forgotten the formula years ago...
There's not really a formula as such. Just the fact that *when in series* each component shares the voltage equally assuming each component is identical. So if you have 16 volts:
- One bulb would get 16 Volts
- Two bulbs would get 8 Volts each
- Three bulbs would get 5.3 Volts each
- Four would get 4 Volts, and so on...
So as you add each bulb to the series, the bulbs get dimmer.
That's why Christmas tree bulbs (rated at 12 Volts) work off mains voltage (about 230-240 Volts). On their own, mains would blow them up (dramatically, I'd expect) but in groups of 20 per series, they're fine. That is, of course, why the whole chain of bulbs going out when one bulb is removed (or faulty) is a design feature, not a flaw!
Cheers, NeMo
Forgive the simplicity of the sketch below, but you did say keep it simple :thumbsup:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/thumb_9070.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=9070)
So you provide the 12 volt power supply from your controller if it has a spare one, or any 12 volt uncontrolled supply that you may have lying around ( e.g. old phone chargers etc ) and then with a simple on/off switch you can control the lights being illuminated or off. If you want to experiment with different levels of bulb brightness then just replace the switch with a potentiometer from Maplins ( other electronic supply shops are available ;) ).
Can't think of how to make it any simpler, so good luck :)
Hi guys.
Hope I'm not interfering with your thread Port Perran but thought my questions might help you too.
Thankyou for keeping it simple (ish). Got a better idea of what to do but
1. Leo1961... The 'chock block' connector things come in different ampage so which ones?
2. You lost me on the potentiometer thing. Googled it and still prob need another picture in crayon! :dunce:
Thanks guys for help and any more gratefully appreciated.
PS Have a Gaugemaster Model D controller sort of spare as have gone Kato. It has 12 volt DC and 16 volt AC 'holes'. Presume the 12 volt DC as mentioned but you could always confuse me further with what the 16 volt AC is for!? :)
Cheers weave.
So.......forgive me for being stupid but.......if I have an old set of Christmas lights, can I cut off the lights just after the transformer (is that what it's called?) then join my street lights to the cut off bit of wire, will it work ?
And.....I'll add an on/off switch as well .
Quote from: weave on December 28, 2013, 06:46:59 PM
Hi guys.
Hope I'm not interfering with your thread Port Perran but thought my questions might help you too.
Thankyou for keeping it simple (ish). Got a better idea of what to do but
1. Leo1961... The 'chock block' connector things come in different ampage so which ones?
2. You lost me on the potentiometer thing. Googled it and still prob need another picture in crayon! :dunce:
Thanks guys for help and any more gratefully appreciated.
PS Have a Gaugemaster Model D controller sort of spare as have gone Kato. It has 12 volt DC and 16 volt AC 'holes'. Presume the 12 volt DC as mentioned but you could always confuse me further with what the 16 volt AC is for!? :)
Cheers weave.
1. Given that you will probably be dealing with small quantities of lamps it won't matter which connector blocks you use as even the smallest are rated at a higher current than you will be dealing with :thumbsup:
2. Potentiometer is just the proper name for a variable resistor, which as it name implies varies the resistance, and therefore the current flowing through the circuit. This just means as the current varies so does the brightness of the lamps in the circuit.
In the image below you would just connect the middle tab with either of the outer tabs, so you now have two connection points. Then you use this to replace the switch and by twiddling the part that rotates it will raise or lower the brightness of the bulbs. :thumbsup:
(http://cdn.instructables.com/FCE/SLMT/H9G11IPO/FCESLMTH9G11IPO.MEDIUM.jpg)
As for your controller, the 16 volt A.C. is for operating items such as point solenoids or signals :thumbsup:
Quote from: port perran on December 28, 2013, 06:47:11 PM
So.......forgive me for being stupid but.......if I have an old set of Christmas lights, can I cut off the lights just after the transformer (is that what it's called?) then join my street lights to the cut off bit of wire, will it work ?
And.....I'll add an on/off switch as well .
Great question. Seriously, great question although I'm worried that I might meet you in the afterlife after both blowing ourselves to bits!!
:beers:
Quote from: port perran on December 28, 2013, 06:47:11 PM
So.......forgive me for being stupid but.......if I have an old set of Christmas lights, can I cut off the lights just after the transformer (is that what it's called?) then join my street lights to the cut off bit of wire, will it work ?
And.....I'll add an on/off switch as well .
With the disclaimer that you are an adult and therefore ultimately responsible for your own actions, then yes :thumbsup:
The real way to do all of the 'electrickery' stuff is to have a multi-meter so that you can check the voltages are in the right ballpark before you start connecting anything of value to the power supply 8)
Quote from: port perran on December 28, 2013, 06:47:11 PM
So.......forgive me for being stupid but.......if I have an old set of Christmas lights, can I cut off the lights just after the transformer (is that what it's called?) then join my street lights to the cut off bit of wire, will it work ?
The safe answer is no. While a transformer that produces 12 V sounds as if it'd be suitable for powering any sort of 12 V component or device, we're ignoring current (and by extension, wattage, or the "work done" by the component or device).
In brief (as a physics teacher rather than an electrician) different devices draw different currents, and the bigger the current, the greater the work done (watts = amps x volts). Needless to say, the more work that's done, the more energy is being converted from electricity into something else per second, and that in turns means more heat is being produced as well. So a 12 V transformer rated at, for example, 1 amp would be overload (and would fail, melt or even explode) if forced to draw a current of 2 amps or 5 amps or whatever.
LEDs are pretty efficient and tend to draw very little current, but ordinary bulbs are the opposite, very inefficient and produce lots of heat in the process. A transformer designed for a bunch of LEDs wouldn't be a good choice for use on ordinary bulbs which would likely draw a lot more current.
Cheers, NeMo
I may not be reading this correctly but all you need is this wiring, in the picture, connected to a 12V supply.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/thumb_9083.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=9083)
cheers John.
There seems to be a problem showing pictures, I shall report it ;)
John, yup; your pic isn't loading.
Pls try again hoping it's a temp glitch. :thumbsup:
Dave G
I have a Morley Vesta twin track controller.
It has a 12 volt uncontrolled outlet. What does this mean with regard to platform and street lights please?
Quote from: trkilliman on December 28, 2013, 08:50:17 PM
I have a Morley Vesta twin track controller.
It has a 12 volt uncontrolled outlet. What does this mean with regard to platform and street lights please?
It means you should be able to power them from this source with no problems :thumbsup:
The usual caveats apply with regard to common sense being the over-riding guidance on such matters :)
It means you should be able to power them from this source with no problems :thumbsup:
What happens if this isn't the case?
What are the likely problems ?
I'm planning to use these for my lighting circuits.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Universal-MAINS-POWER-ADAPTOR-300MA/dp/B003BEZ7HI/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1388264195&sr=8-5&keywords=transformer+adapter (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Universal-MAINS-POWER-ADAPTOR-300MA/dp/B003BEZ7HI/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1388264195&sr=8-5&keywords=transformer+adapter)
Dave G
Quote from: port perran on December 28, 2013, 08:57:00 PM
It means you should be able to power them from this source with no problems :thumbsup:
What happens if this isn't the case?
What are the likely problems ?
If the current is insufficient then the bulbs will be very dim.
port, get a 9v battery and put one wire on the + sign and the other wire on the - sign. that should light the lights, albeit dimly, just to test. If all ok, then wire them to the 12v outlet on your DC transformer. Then you can put a simple on/off switch into one of the wires ( the wire from the + side) so you can control night and day! :)
A potentiometer is a way of sending more or less power to the lights, a dimmer switch if you like.
Cheers, Bill.
For 12v bulbs I try and use abou a 9v smoothed supply as that makes the bulbs last longer.
Alan
So......... I finally bit the bullet and have had a trial attempt at wiring up my platform lights and building lights via a 12v supply purchased from a very helpful little chap in Maplins (just to see if it worked) and I am really pleased with the results. It certainly wasn't as daunting as I thought it would be.
As I'm rebuilding and realigning (slightly) Port Perran station, my first permanent installation will be platform lighting and station interior lighting. A major challenge for me will be making the wiring underneath the baseboards look reasonably neat and tidy !
Think I'll also invest in a potentiometer as well so that I can dim the lights a little.
By the way, Is it possible to "paint" some of the interior lights so that they illuminate a slightly different colour ? If so, what "paint" is advisable ?
Quote from: port perran on January 04, 2014, 07:21:12 PM
So......... I finally bit the bullet and have had a trial attempt at wiring up my platform lights and building lights via a 12v supply purchased from a very helpful little chap in Maplins (just to see if it worked) and I am really pleased with the results. It certainly wasn't as daunting as I thought it would be.
As I'm rebuilding and realigning (slightly) Port Perran station, my first permanent installation will be platform lighting and station interior lighting. A major challenge for me will be making the wiring underneath the baseboards look reasonably neat and tidy !
Think I'll also invest in a potentiometer as well so that I can dim the lights a little.
By the way, Is it possible to "paint" some of the interior lights so that they illuminate a slightly different colour ? If so, what "paint" is advisable ?
Well done for taking the plunge. Basic railway electrics aren't as daunting as they sometimes appear to be
:thumbsup:
In order to dim the lights, I was thinking of a potentiometer but came across this on ebay :
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wireless-12V-Remote-Dimmer-Switch-Controller-Mini-LED-Dimmer-Strip-Light-RF-/370857726830 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wireless-12V-Remote-Dimmer-Switch-Controller-Mini-LED-Dimmer-Strip-Light-RF-/370857726830)
It would be handy to be able to remotely dim or brighten the lights. Would it work ok ?
Looks like a neat idea PP and I'd be interested too.
I await advice from those that know far better than I before buying.
On the same lines (sorry) I've already got a load of 12v LEDs and plan to run them through a 240v/12v transformer plugged in via a dimmer socket. Not tried it yet but why shouldn't it work?
Dave G
Probably not what you want - bulbs are best treated to steady smooth DC to keep them going for long periods, dimmers continually cut and restore the power which an LED doesn't mind too much but causes thermal stresses on a bulb.
Better to use an old spare DC controller knob, or another good way if they are a bit right is to wire them in pairs together (ie +ve - lamp - lamp - -ve) which near enough puts 6v across each and is frequently a simple answer.
Alan
Wouldn't a resistor dim them?
Glad I found this thread 'cos like port perran I've got some lights from Joe Kytes and am planning to light the layout.
I've also had to invest in a copy of 'Electronics for Dummies' since what I know about resistors or LEDs could be written on the back of a LED and my knowledge of electrics in general has been somewhat dimmed over the years.
With the station lights I bought Joe sent resistors so I reckon these are 6v rather than 12.
I'm planning to have a go with copper tape to try and keep the spaghetti under the baseboard to a minimum. Has anyone any advice on whether that's a good idea or not?
Quote from: Frenchie on January 07, 2014, 06:01:27 PM
I'm planning to have a go with copper tape to try and keep the spaghetti under the baseboard to a minimum. Has anyone any advice on whether that's a good idea or not?
Here are a couple of examples where members have used copper tape on their layouts. There are more examples, if you type in "copper tape" into the search facility you will get a list of them ;)
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=10285.msg174879#msg174879 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=10285.msg174879#msg174879) :NGaugersRule:
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=3274.msg36641#msg36641 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=3274.msg36641#msg36641) :veryangry:
cheers John.
Thanks for those links. Very useful.
Especially the second one which also gave me the very useful tip of using plastic straws to keep the wiring tidy.
Now why the hell didn't I think of that one? :doh:
Quote from: port perran on January 04, 2014, 07:58:57 PM
In order to dim the lights, I was thinking of a potentiometer but came across this on ebay :
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wireless-12V-Remote-Dimmer-Switch-Controller-Mini-LED-Dimmer-Strip-Light-RF-/370857726830 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wireless-12V-Remote-Dimmer-Switch-Controller-Mini-LED-Dimmer-Strip-Light-RF-/370857726830)
It would be handy to be able to remotely dim or brighten the lights. Would it work ok ?
I bought something very similar to this off ebay, it works okay on LED's. The only problem is that it is a type of chaser unit that you get on Christmas Trees, and on mine a soon a you turn it on it starts to flash randomly so you have to cycle through each little program until you get to the "steady on" position and then you have to dim it to your requirements.
I found a it bit of a pain in the rear to be honest, unless you are happy for your villagers or towns folk having their own little rave up with randomly flashing houses and lamp posts.
Ian
Quote from: IanUK on January 07, 2014, 07:19:06 PM
I found a it bit of a pain in the rear to be honest, unless you are happy for your villagers or towns folk having their own little rave up with randomly flashing houses and lamp posts.
Ian
:laughabovepost: :laughabovepost:
Perhaps I should rename my layout 'Much Dancing in the Marsh' :laugh3:
One item that may help out here is a power supply from Maplin, 12W AC/DC Multi Voltage Power, code number B51QJ which gives an output of Selectable DC 3, 4.5, 5, 6, 9, 12 V. at about 1 Amp. This should be enough power to run up to 10 or twelve bulbs. You can get the appearance of gas lighting at the lower voltages eg 3 to 6 volts and as mentioned before run the bulbs at 9 volts to extend the life of the lamps
David