N Gauge Forum

General Category => N Gauge Discussion => Topic started by: DJFisher on December 24, 2013, 10:53:05 PM

Title: BR Mk1 Short rakes
Post by: DJFisher on December 24, 2013, 10:53:05 PM
I'm just wondering if anyone could help me with identifying a short rake of BR Blue/grey Mk1's say 5-6 coaches long that I would be able to recreate using stock readily available :)
Title: Re: BR Mk1 Short rakes
Post by: DCCDave on December 24, 2013, 11:14:12 PM
Quote from: DJFisher on December 24, 2013, 10:53:05 PM
I'm just wondering if anyone could help me with identifying a short rake of BR Blue/grey Mk1's say 5-6 coaches long that I would be able to recreate using stock readily available :)

Depends where and when you are modelling.

As an example I'm =putting together the following for the Waverley route  in early 1960s (in my case all Maroons, but would have been blue/grey later in the 60s):

BG, CK, SK, SK, SK, BSK

Cheers
Dave
Title: Re: BR Mk1 Short rakes
Post by: d-a-n on December 24, 2013, 11:21:33 PM
Second class mk1s (open or corridor) seem to be rare, and they seem to be the ones you need most of the time for prototypical rakes!
Title: Re: BR Mk1 Short rakes
Post by: DJFisher on December 24, 2013, 11:26:54 PM
do you know of any kits or simple convertions I could use ?
Title: Re: BR Mk1 Short rakes
Post by: DCCDave on December 24, 2013, 11:37:29 PM
Quote from: d-a-n on December 24, 2013, 11:21:33 PM
Second class mk1s (open or corridor) seem to be rare, and they seem to be the ones you need most of the time for prototypical rakes!

True. You'd think the manufacturers would realise that and make more seconds, and more brake seconds too. Apparently the new Bulleids are already sold out of brake seconds in some stores.

New Farish weathered Maroon SKs(374-061C) and BSKs (374-187C) are on the way.

Cheers
Dave
Title: Re: BR Mk1 Short rakes
Post by: DCCDave on December 24, 2013, 11:39:38 PM
Quote from: DJFisher on December 24, 2013, 11:26:54 PM
do you know of any kits or simple convertions I could use ?

A real simple conversion (though the purists will howl) is just to rub the 1 of the doors of FKs, CKs, BFKs and BCKs

Cheers
Dave
Title: Re: BR Mk1 Short rakes
Post by: DJFisher on December 24, 2013, 11:47:26 PM
Works for me so what would you suggest for a simple 5 car rake ?
Title: Re: BR Mk1 Short rakes
Post by: EtchedPixels on December 25, 2013, 12:11:52 AM
Other choice if modelling kings cross suburban services is the mark 1 suburbans in 5 or 6 coach set with a 31.
Title: Re: BR Mk1 Short rakes
Post by: red_death on December 25, 2013, 12:43:32 AM
West Highland or Kyle line Mk1 sets would be a good start. They ran very short rakes in winter (sometimes as short as one coach, though more normally 2-3 IIRC) with  more coaches to strengthen the sets in summer.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: BR Mk1 Short rakes
Post by: DJFisher on December 25, 2013, 01:04:08 AM
Quote from: EtchedPixels on December 25, 2013, 12:11:52 AM
Other choice if modelling kings cross suburban services is the mark 1 suburbans in 5 or 6 coach set with a 31.

would this only be prototypical for kings cross ?
Title: Re: BR Mk1 Short rakes
Post by: dodger on December 25, 2013, 06:53:39 AM
The formation Hereford portion of the through train from Paddington leaving Worcester was TSO-BSK-CK during the 60's and 70's.

Dodger
Title: Re: BR Mk1 Short rakes
Post by: Michael Hendle on December 25, 2013, 10:35:19 AM
Hi
I've seen this formation in a photograph of the West Highland Departing Glasgow Queen Street Cl 37 SK,SK,BG SK BCK,when the train arrived at Fort William the BCK and SK  set were uncoupled and went forward to Oban.
Mike
Title: Re: BR Mk1 Short rakes
Post by: Deltic9001 on December 25, 2013, 07:03:32 PM
Hi,

Dundee-Glasgow services were usually 5 coach sets (BSK (often a Mk.2) + 4*TSO or SK Mk1s) and were hauled by over the years by classes 24, 25, 26, 27, 37, 40, 47. Dundee-Edinburgh services were usually 4 coaches often a complete rake of Mk.2s and were usually hauled by class 27s but classes 25, 26, 40 and 47s were also regular performers.

One of the Glasgow services was used for a works test and meant the train was double headed with the usual work-stained engine plus one pristine engine.

Best Regards,
Andy Hoskins
Falkirk
Title: Re: BR Mk1 Short rakes
Post by: d-a-n on December 25, 2013, 07:42:48 PM
Quote from: DCCDave on December 24, 2013, 11:39:38 PM
Quote from: DJFisher on December 24, 2013, 11:26:54 PM
do you know of any kits or simple convertions I could use ?

A real simple conversion (though the purists will howl) is just to rub the 1 of the doors of FKs, CKs, BFKs and BCKs

Cheers
Dave

You'd need to ditch the yellow stripe as well off the first class carriages to make them second class.  :)

I think the important thing to remember wth any British coach formation is that they were a bit hit and miss with what they were made up with! As far as I know, a train must have a brake (for the guard) and will usually have a bit of first class for all the posh folks. A single BCK (brake, composite, corridor) fulfils this need alone. You could do what I've done and recreate a short rake (in this instance) pulled by a class 25 I've seen in a book which is CK (corridor composite, half 1st, half 2nd class) SK (second corridor), SO (second open) and a BSK (brake second corridor) - a good ratio of 1st class to everything else.
You've not said whereabouts your layout is based, if it's London based, you'd usually have a bit more 1st class stuff rolling out (more rich fellas) but then again, the rakes would be longer.
So, I've been drinking and rambling a bit. Let's skip to the end.

A rake of CK, SO, SO (or SK) and BSK would be a fine and prototypical-ish scaled down rake for most regions outside of London.

Merry Christmas!
Title: Re: BR Mk1 Short rakes
Post by: DCCDave on December 25, 2013, 08:10:11 PM
Quote from: d-a-n on December 25, 2013, 07:42:48 PM
You'd need to ditch the yellow stripe as well off the first class carriages to make them second class.  :)
Quote

If they have them. Just looking through my assortment of Stanniers, Gresleys and Mk1s and non of the first class do!

Cheers
Dave
Title: Re: BR Mk1 Short rakes
Post by: d-a-n on December 25, 2013, 08:26:13 PM
Quote from: DCCDave on December 25, 2013, 08:10:11 PM
If they have them. Just looking through my assortment of Stanniers, Gresleys and Mk1s and non of the first class do!

Cheers
Dave

I was under the impression, specifically with blue /grey mk1 stock, that they would've painted a yellow cantrail on 1st class stock after 1963 - See 'Liveries section' in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Railways_Mark_1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Railways_Mark_1)

Are your Gresleys and Staniers in maroon? I can't speak for these as they are out of my era and I don't know if they survived into blue/grey, the era the OP was asking about!

Title: Re: BR Mk1 Short rakes
Post by: DJFisher on December 25, 2013, 10:56:26 PM
Thanks for all the advice guys :) I should have been more specific im looking to model BR blue not sure what era (I think id like to be flexible)