N Gauge Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Pengi on November 28, 2013, 02:58:26 PM

Title: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Pengi on November 28, 2013, 02:58:26 PM
Have been getting frustrated about the amount of space needed to run EMU express trains (would to have my layout in the house not the garage) so decided to try a T gauge experiment.

Here is a starter set compared to a Kato Portram. The box looks the right sort of size for N but the track and controller is also in the box. I bought some extra straight sections - which turned out to be essential, when putting the train on the track.

[smg id=8605]

The eight car ICE3 in its packaging next to my iPhone  :o. The other four coaches are on the reverse. Included in the pack is the pantograph but too fiddly for me to fit on the train at the moment.

[smg id=8602]

The ICE3 next to the Portram

[smg id=8603]

[smg id=8604]

The lights on the ICE3 stay on even when stationary  :) There are forward and reverse lights :)

My experience so far is that T is really fiddly :goggleeyes:, connecting the track took ages - not as easy as Unitrack. Difficult to get the track really flat too but once it was set up it all worked well.

Then came the really hard part - connecting the train together and putting it on the track  :goggleeyes: :goggleeyes:. There is a re-railer but it is not long enough for an 8 car ICE3. Fitting a Farish Voyager together is a doddle after this.

The pack has two switchback sensors which will allow the train to reverse automatically - not tried these yet, a electronic wheel cleaner with cleaning papers and and energizing stabiliser oil pen.

So will I be ditching N gauge for T? - not yet, need to get accustomed to the fiddliness of it and I think T gauge points might be a step too far for me. As yet there are no Voyager or Eurostar in T but there is probably more chance of a T Pendolino than in N. There is a HST but it is in the wrong livery for me and good to know that Electra do Electrostar vinyls.
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Newportnobby on November 28, 2013, 03:04:09 PM
Very impressive, especially with the lights etc :thumbsup:
I often struggle with N so no way could I go smaller :no:
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: scotsoft on November 28, 2013, 03:05:05 PM
Wow, very nice but way too small for me to even contemplate  :D

I shall content myself by watching your videos and your T gauge build thread  :angel:

cheers John.
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Calnefoxile on November 28, 2013, 03:05:14 PM
I saw the T gauge setup at Warley, they had a full length HST, by that I mean a 2+7 configuration, whizzing around their figure of 8 layout.

I didn't notice any points on the layout at all though.

Oh and another thing, what was the cost like for the ICE set you bought???

Cheers

Neal.
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Pengi on November 28, 2013, 03:19:31 PM
The cost is horrific but cheaper than buying an N gauge ICE3, track and controller.

http://www.tgauge.com/product/257/20/model-railway-starter-set (http://www.tgauge.com/product/257/20/model-railway-starter-set)

Interestingly they sell two versions of the starter set. One has track of a smaller radius so that it can form double track and they are both the same price.

Very impressed with the service from Tgauge.com :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: mr bachmann on November 28, 2013, 03:50:42 PM
Dont go over yet ... try this ...

http://www.zen98812.zen.co.uk/aasherwood.html (http://www.zen98812.zen.co.uk/aasherwood.html)    :hmmm:

(the ultraminiature models of aa sherwood)
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Lawrence on November 28, 2013, 04:06:58 PM
Quote from: Calnefoxile on November 28, 2013, 03:05:14 PM
I saw the T gauge setup at Warley, they had a full length HST, by that I mean a 2+7 configuration, whizzing around their figure of 8 layout.

I didn't notice any points on the layout at all though.

Oh and another thing, what was the cost like for the ICE set you bought???

Cheers

Neal.

They do a variety of points, flexitrack and a couple of crossovers Neal.  They also have some brass etch kits available if you are feeling brave, including a deltic body and a footbridge  :goggleeyes:
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Calnefoxile on November 28, 2013, 05:08:55 PM
Quote from: Lawrence on November 28, 2013, 04:06:58 PM
They do a variety of points, flexitrack and a couple of crossovers Neal.  They also have some brass etch kits available if you are feeling brave, including a deltic body and a footbridge  :goggleeyes:

Lawrence,

There is a very fine line between brave and stupidity, which I am not prepared to cross  ;) ;)

Regards

Neal.
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: d-a-n on November 28, 2013, 05:46:22 PM
Last summer I very nearly bought a Japanese T gauge set of some unrecognisable orange Japanese EMU - this looks much more interesting! Is the controller a mains controller?
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Geoff on November 28, 2013, 06:00:07 PM
That is really tiny Pengi just hope your eyesight is better than mine, I struggle sometimes with N gauge, good luck with the little venture.
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Pengi on November 28, 2013, 06:44:19 PM
The controller runs on 3xAA batteries. You can get USB adaptors to power it off a computer.

Dan, Electra do vinyls for the Japanese EMUs to convert them into UK. At this sort of scale, it cannot be prototypical though - just look at the gap between the carriages of the ICE train!

Geoff, the worst bit is coupling the train together - the couplings are tiny  :goggleeyes: I've emailed tgauge.com for some advice on this. I will never complain about N gauge couplings again!!

I am quite excited about T and think it may be the way forward for those of us that like the fast modern EMUs but without the space. You can even get the posts for the overhead wires (and the wires too - although I think they will have to be molecular sized)

Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: gc4946 on November 28, 2013, 07:02:31 PM
Although I'm not interested in T scale, its big advantage is if you want to model a cityscape, or the countryside, where the scenery dominates the railway, in anywhere like a reasonable size at home.
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: johnlambert on November 28, 2013, 07:16:20 PM
One of my local model shops (now closed) had a T gauge Japanese EMU set.  I couldn't believe how tiny the carriages were, hard to believe anything that size can be motorised.  Not sure I'd be willing to give it a try but I like the idea.
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Paul B on November 28, 2013, 07:26:15 PM
Quote from: johnlambert on November 28, 2013, 07:16:20 PM
I couldn't believe how tiny the carriages were, hard to believe anything that size can be motorised. 

I am sure that I read somewhere when T Gauge was first introduced that they are motorised using the same motors that are used to make mobile phones vibrate!  :goggleeyes: (does this mean that the trains are actually vibrating round the track??  :D )
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: johnlambert on November 28, 2013, 07:30:58 PM
Quote from: Paul B on November 28, 2013, 07:26:15 PM
Quote from: johnlambert on November 28, 2013, 07:16:20 PM
I couldn't believe how tiny the carriages were, hard to believe anything that size can be motorised. 

I am sure that I read somewhere when T Gauge was first introduced that they are motorised using the same motors that are used to make mobile phones vibrate!  :goggleeyes: (does this mean that the trains are actually vibrating round the track??  :D )

I think Dapol must have copied that idea when it made my N gauge Flying Scotsman, except that FS vibrates itself off the track  :veryangry:
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on November 28, 2013, 07:56:54 PM
Quote from: d-a-n on November 28, 2013, 05:46:22 PM
Last summer I very nearly bought a Japanese T gauge set of some unrecognisable orange Japanese EMU - this looks much more interesting! Is the controller a mains controller?

The 'unrecognisable' EMU is one of the iconic class 103 suburban units, which dominated Tokyo suburban services for 30 years, and can still be seen (in ever decreasing numbers) in Osaka.

T gauge has expanded away from the Japanese market in a bid to revive flagging fortunes...the earlier motors were'nt great. Newer motors are an improvement and there have been some great innovations in T gauge modelling. I have been plotting a T gauge layout for about four or so years now... Never seem to get the time or inspiration though!
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Oldman on November 28, 2013, 08:15:47 PM
(http://i1248.photobucket.com/albums/hh497/shuglet/SDC10890.jpg)

T gauge people and horses with riders next to a 5p piece

Have a lot of the original T gauge stuff here, including track,  6 original 103 train sets,buildings etc.
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Lawrence on November 28, 2013, 09:00:51 PM
Quote from: Paul B on November 28, 2013, 07:26:15 PM

I am sure that I read somewhere when T Gauge was first introduced that they are motorised using the same motors that are used to make mobile phones vibrate! 

That is quite correct Paul, there is (or at least was) a level of magnetism to them, which did cause problems when trains derailed in tunnels, careful planning is required when designing the layout either that or was of those flexible arms to poke it out the other side!
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Pengi on November 28, 2013, 09:10:02 PM
Mike, where did you get the horses and riders from?
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: d-a-n on November 28, 2013, 09:36:17 PM
Will you make a T gauge layout and do you think, once secured to a base board, the track could be made to be super level?
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Newportnobby on November 28, 2013, 09:43:25 PM
The next ICE train will be delayed due to someone sneezing and blowing it off the rails :D
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: upnick on November 28, 2013, 09:47:05 PM
Look  forward with great interest  on this layout  developing  Pengi    ;) 
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: bridgiesimon on November 28, 2013, 09:56:03 PM
I thought that painting in N was small enough, your painting of these is superb!!

SImon
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Oldman on November 28, 2013, 10:12:25 PM
Quote from: bridgiesimon on November 28, 2013, 09:56:03 PM
I thought that painting in N was small enough, your painting of these is superb!!

SImon

Sorry to dissappoint but I bought them ready painted. Do have some unpainted motor bikes though. There is about £500 worth of T gauge lurking here, For road vehicles I have some of the Herpa 1/500 aviation vehicles, level crossings, the support pillars for an elevated section but no points or crossings
I think most of the figures I have originally came from Japan but also bought stuff fromT Gauge.com

This is the figure set  http://www.tgauge.com/product/46/4/figure-and-animal-set (http://www.tgauge.com/product/46/4/figure-and-animal-set)
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Bealman on November 28, 2013, 11:54:34 PM
Do all these T gauge sets come with a microscope as well as a controller?  :worried:
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Pengi on November 29, 2013, 07:31:00 AM
Eek! The controllers (http://www.tgauge.com/product/147/4/tgauge-pwm-power-box) are £59.90 each  :goggleeyes:

Bang goes my idea of running four trains at once  :(
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: ParkeNd on November 29, 2013, 10:22:29 AM
I saw them at Warley too. They are a perfect example of the Japanese love of of buying things for their engineering excellence - in this case miniaturisation. At one time small robots were also the rage in Japan and the Japanese swore that no-one else would understand them. It was all about what was achievable and not what you could do with them.

I think that these were the trains running on plain flat azure coloured flat featureless baseboard.

Are you really supposed to build a scenic layout - or just buy all the bits and run it just for the appreciation of the technology. What do the Japanese do - as opposed to just quoting Rule #1.
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: upnick on November 29, 2013, 11:12:03 PM
Has anyone seen  T gauge  with DCC   control  ?     

If the  locos  motors will be  fine running with  an  adaptor  &   DCC  control  say the  NCE  powercab then  more trains could be run  naking it more economical  than  four convetional   controllers.
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Sprintex on November 30, 2013, 06:00:33 AM
Quote from: ParkeNd on November 29, 2013, 10:22:29 AM
Are you really supposed to build a scenic layout ...

No ;)

Quote... What do the Japanese do - as opposed to just quoting Rule #1.

Knowing the notorious lack of space in Japanese abodes take it out the box, put it together on the floor and play with it, put it back in the box until next time :)

Quote from: upnick on November 29, 2013, 11:12:03 PM
Has anyone seen  T gauge  with DCC   control  ?     

If the  locos  motors will be  fine running with  an  adaptor  &   DCC  control  say the  NCE  powercab then  more trains could be run  naking it more economical  than  four convetional   controllers.

Not seen it so far, I'd imagine the difficulty there would be getting a decoder to fit in such a small train?! :goggleeyes:


Paul
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Pengi on November 30, 2013, 07:46:09 AM
Quote from: Sprintex on November 30, 2013, 06:00:33 AM
Quote from: ParkeNd on November 29, 2013, 10:22:29 AM
Are you really supposed to build a scenic layout ...

No ;)

Paul

Don't understand this comment, Paul ??? - I've seen some wonderful scenic T layouts :thumbsup:. At the moment, I'm still getting used to T gauge but when I do, I will build a scenic layout. I'm also a bit nervous about taking it out of the box, connecting it up and then putting it back in the box in case I damage any of the connectors.

So far I've not seen anything about DCC for T - maybe it needs electronics at the molecular scale! There is a post about making a digital controller

http://www.talkingtgauge.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=13 (http://www.talkingtgauge.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=13)
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Sprintex on November 30, 2013, 09:18:59 AM
You're not meant to build a fully scenic layout, although some already have and an increasing number of items are being introduced to enable people to do so as it gains popularity. As I said above though it was originally intended for the Japanese market where usage is more akin to Scalextric - set up track on floor or a table, play with it, and pack it away when you're finished. Same reason Kato track came about, which is why it comes with replaceable 'clip' track connectors and simple plug-in electrics ;)


Paul
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: ParkeNd on November 30, 2013, 09:29:11 AM
Quote from: Sprintex on November 30, 2013, 09:18:59 AM
You're not meant to build a fully scenic layout, although some already have and an increasing number of items are being introduced to enable people to do so as it gains popularity. As I said above though it was originally intended for the Japanese market where usage is more akin to Scalextric - set up track on floor or a table, play with it, and pack it away when you're finished. Same reason Kato track came about ;)


Paul

Thanks for that. Makes sense to me.
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on November 30, 2013, 12:10:33 PM
Hello

I built a T Gauge layout for Hornby Magazine's 3foot challenge.

I blogged it on the T Gauge forum but the site has gone awol!

Here's a summary and a photo http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/39336-garage-layout/ (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/39336-garage-layout/)

I won £500 of OO equipment!

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: PostModN66 on November 30, 2013, 12:50:52 PM
Michael,

I followed the link - I have to say, what an excellent idea and a wonderful execution.

Fantastic    A*  !!

Cheers  Jon   :)
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Pengi on November 30, 2013, 01:04:39 PM
Michael, that is sensational - a really clever idea :thumbsup: brilliantly done!

What is your opinion on the points - are they good enough to run an 8 car train over them? The one way points look interesting  but you would still need a manual point as well for a passing loop?
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: EtchedPixels on November 30, 2013, 02:15:23 PM
I found the points utterly useless, its one of the things that persuaded me that T was never going to work without major hacking. They can be rebuilt and people have hand laid their own electrofrog points but the RTR ones were junk with big isolated areas so stock would stall all the time.

I'm slowly building 15" gauge stock in N scale for my T track. For the drive however I think I'll be trying to fit a rather better motor to their gearbox (as I have lots more room even if building a 15" gauge quarry Hunslet or similar), and going from 4.5v up to 6v or 9v so its controllable.

No DCC - the voltages it uses are way lower than any existing DCC devices can handle.

There are surprisingly lots of scenic options with all the 1:400-1:500 scale card kits around including some really big buildings (or at least they would be in any other scale!)

Alan
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Pengi on November 30, 2013, 03:52:56 PM
Thanks EP - that is very helpful
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Lawrence on November 30, 2013, 04:58:56 PM
Jane - Sankai do some 1:500 kits you know  ;) castles and temples I believe, they'll test your eyesight  ;D
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: rhysapthomas on November 30, 2013, 05:44:16 PM
Facinating stuff I have often looked at T gauge and thought what a long train you could run!

However there are smaller take a look at www.idlmotors.com (http://www.idlmotors.com) for a 1/900 scale system
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Vanders on November 30, 2013, 11:41:32 PM
I'd like to try something with T, if only the points weren't so useless (although, believe it or not, some people have built handbuilt T track...) and if someone would bloody well produce a Co-Co chassis!
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Pengi on December 01, 2013, 07:33:37 AM
Thanks, this has decided me - no points, so Clapham Junction is out! Progress on this project will be slow - as need to do a lot more work on the N gauge layout. 

I am thinking of an L shaped end to end layout  or a straight shelf layout using the switchback sensors to send the trains back and forth automatically. For location, I've always wanted to do a layout with Venice Santa Lucia at one end and Venice Mestre at the other (with the lagoon in the middle). Will have to be cut down versions of the stations, and the bridge, because I don't want to use points.

Lawrence - will take a look at the Sankei kits  :thankyousign: they are the only kits I really enjoy making in N, so maybe I will find them fun in T
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Bealman on December 01, 2013, 09:02:43 AM
This is interesting stuff, but the only reason I would even give T a bat of an eyelid is to possibly add a short narrow gauge line onto my existing layout..... but there again, I can use Z for that.

A plausible idea could be a forced perspective mainline way up in the hills in the background (just a little loop) with trains hurtling between hiils or tunnels, perhaps?

George
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on December 01, 2013, 10:00:34 AM
Hello

The only thing I've found frustrating with the points is the lack of facility for remote control and the limited radius available.

I haven't used the one-way points.

Here are some more pictures.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/thumb_8647.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=8647)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/thumb_8648.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=8648)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/thumb_8649.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=8649)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/thumb_8650.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=8650)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/thumb_8653.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=8653)

Best regards
Michael

Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Bealman on December 01, 2013, 10:29:38 AM
I must admit, that's pretty cool!
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: d-a-n on December 01, 2013, 03:22:56 PM
That garage layout is something else - I love creative thinking like that!
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: EtchedPixels on December 01, 2013, 03:53:51 PM
Quote from: Bealman on December 01, 2013, 09:02:43 AM
This is interesting stuff, but the only reason I would even give T a bat of an eyelid is to possibly add a short narrow gauge line onto my existing layout..... but there again, I can use Z for that.

A plausible idea could be a forced perspective mainline way up in the hills in the background (just a little loop) with trains hurtling between hiils or tunnels, perhaps?

George

I believe they experimented with that on Copenhagen Fields at the rear but T wasn't reliable enough at the time.
Title: Re: Pengi's T Gauge Experiment
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on December 01, 2013, 06:59:52 PM
Thank you all for the kind comments about my garage layout.

The IDL Motors mentioned by rhysapthomas are interesting because they are linear motors.

The rolling stock are magnets made to look roughly like a loco and carriages.

The track doesn't have rails, but is a series of electrical coils etched on a thin PCB.

The controller switches the coils on and off in sequence to move the magnets.

I received one last Christmas :)

Best regards
Michael