Not that I wish to encourage any more little sods to knock on my door, but does anyone else think it's a great shame that 'Penny for the Guy' has completely died out whereas we have all and sundry celebrating Hallowe'en. I know the Americans go for it big style and therefore the UK naturally follows what America does, but in my youth Hallowe'en didn't exist but we had enormous fun creating a guy to put in either a wheelbarrow or a go cart.
To be honest, if someone were to do that tomorrow night I'd be highly and pleasantly surprised instead of wondering whether someone's little darling was going to key my car if I don't provide them with the result of Hallowe'en begging.
As an aside - did anyone else build a go cart from disused pram wheels, planks of wood and steered with pieces of string. I 'parked' mine outside the local post office one day in 1961 only to find when I emerged that some utter sod had reversed their car over it :'(
Quote from: newportnobby on November 04, 2013, 10:42:47 PM
Not that I wish to encourage any more little sods to knock on my door, but does anyone else think it's a great shame that 'Penny for the Guy' has completely died out whereas we have all and sundry celebrating Hallowe'en.
Not sure I miss it - anyway it was more like 50p for the guy ;)
At the end of the day its essentially a celebratory catholic burning and perhaps out of place. Even if Guy Fawkes was as they say the last man to enter Westminster with an honest intent 8)
Quote
In my youth Hallowe'en didn't exist
Oh it did - it's just that back then the pagans had to keep quiet or they got abused or worse :worried:
Trick or treat I could do without. It's called "threatening behaviour" in my book. A US friend of mine feeds kids who do that caffienated sugar sweets. He figures it'll make the parents suffer >:D
Quote from: newportnobby on November 04, 2013, 10:42:47 PM
As an aside - did anyone else build a go cart from disused pram wheels, planks of wood and steered with pieces of string.
Certainly did, there was three of us who used to go about together and we built a three seater kart. There was always arguments on who was allowed to be the driver but we had so much fun on that kart :claphappy:
Yep my brother and I built one in the 1950's great fun going down the local 1 in 10 hill brakes!!!!!!
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
Quote from: newportnobby on November 04, 2013, 10:42:47 PM
As an aside - did anyone else build a go cart from disused pram wheels, planks of wood and steered with pieces of string. I 'parked' mine outside the local post office one day in 1961 only to find when I emerged that some utter sod had reversed their car over it :'(
Built one with friends on the street in the early 50's and used it up and down the rise we lived on. Not many cars then so we used the road. :bounce: :bounce:
Ray
Quote from: EtchedPixels on November 04, 2013, 10:46:22 PM
Quote from: newportnobby on November 04, 2013, 10:42:47 PM
Not that I wish to encourage any more little sods to knock on my door, but does anyone else think it's a great shame that 'Penny for the Guy' has completely died out whereas we have all and sundry celebrating Hallowe'en.
Trick or treat I could do without. It's called "threatening behaviour" in my book. A US friend of mine feeds kids who do that caffienated sugar sweets. He figures it'll make the parents suffer >:D
I put my own variation of trick or treat this year out for the kids >:D
Squares of chocolate all with any manufacturing logos removed with a warmed knife beforehand. Some were Dairy Milk, Caramac, Milky Bar, and Dark chocolate but some were Ex-lax >:D ::)
Quote from: newportnobby on November 04, 2013, 10:42:47 PM
Not that I wish to encourage any more little sods to knock on my door, but does anyone else think it's a great shame that 'Penny for the Guy' has completely died out whereas we have all and sundry celebrating Hallowe'en. I know the Americans go for it big style and therefore the UK naturally follows what America does,
Dear me I dont quite know where to start!
I thort at first the "report to mod" button !
but Oh! guess what !!! hello Npn !
EP has already correctly identified the rampant anti-catholic sentiment of "penny for the guy"
I wonder what this had to do with Ngauge in the first place ?
and then you have a go at Americans !
Gosh.
We built a cart in about 1956 with ball bearing steering pivot and proper rope steering - string would never have got it round the 90 deg bend at the bottom of the slope down from the Co-op. Wheels were from a pushchair and current Elf and Stupidity would have has field day about the open spokes. Got about three years fun out of that.
By contrast Penny for the Guy was only practiced by the poor kids from the prefabs. Halloween started for us at boarding school where it was all about witches and ghosts rather than the current fad for slasher killers and vampires. I blame Jamie Lee Curtiss for that but have forgiven her since seeing her body in A Fish Called Wanda.
Ok then, to bring it into N gauge territory - has anyone done a layout, set in Autumn, with bonfires (large) and scarily dressed kids. This would cover the period in question (U.S. layouts could omit the large bonfires, naturally).
My U.S rellies treat Halloween differently to us, as the idea is to give the kids either a treat or a trick (such as chucking a bucket of water over them, or scaring them with your own costume). In the UK it seems to be reversed, so the householder is threatened with a trick, if the kids do not get a treat (usually pelted with eggs). As usual, our kids find a way to screw up a good tradition - but that is Anglo Saxons for you!
Quote from: ParkeNd on November 05, 2013, 12:01:38 AMBy contrast Penny for the Guy was only practiced by the poor kids from the prefabs.
Oi ! where are all these vignettes coming from ?
I am quite familiar, from my youth, with the Guy in the Wheelbarrow wot was laterer burned on the bonfire.
We had no prefabs anywhere within miles of us (nouveau riche 1930s estate !)
I say again, what has this got to do with a Ngauge forum? tchtch
It's not what I was here for !
Quote from: Kipper on November 05, 2013, 12:06:30 AM
Ok then, to bring it into N gauge territory - has anyone done a layout, set in Autumn, with bonfires (large) and scarily dressed kids. This would cover the period in question (U.S. layouts could omit the large bonfires, naturally).,,,,
kids find a way to screw up a good tradition - but that is Anglo Saxons for you!
Nice one !
QuoteI say again, what has this got to do with a Ngauge forum? tchtch
It's not what I was here for !
Topic is under the
Board Heading: General Discussion - Talk about anything here! Other gauges, hobbies, the weather...so doesn't need to be about N or even Railways.
Quote from: trainsdownunder on November 05, 2013, 03:34:36 AM
QuoteI say again, what has this got to do with a Ngauge forum? tchtch
It's not what I was here for !
Topic is under the Board Heading: General Discussion - Talk about anything here! Other gauges, hobbies, the weather...
so doesn't need to be about N or even Railways.
Got it in one :thumbsup:
Quote from: newportnobby on November 04, 2013, 10:42:47 PM
Not that I wish to encourage any more little sods to knock on my door, but does anyone else think it's a great shame that 'Penny for the Guy' has completely died out whereas we have all and sundry celebrating Hallowe'en.
No. Whilst I abhor the fact that this country appears to follow and imitate the USA like an irritating younger brother I think we can do without PFTG. Both that and Trick or Treat are nothing more than thinly disguised begging and should be stopped. Personally I always put a notice on my door warning that police will be called if anyone causes a nuisance :no:
QuoteAs an aside - did anyone else build a go cart from disused pram wheels, planks of wood and steered with pieces of string. I 'parked' mine outside the local post office one day in 1961 only to find when I emerged that some utter sod had reversed their car over it :'(
Oh yes ;)
Back wheels were off our old Silver Cross pram, front ones off an old tartan shopping trolley. There were three or four round our way so we used to have regular races :D
Paul
With apologies to RChook, but this is the General Discussion board as pointed out by Sprintex.
From what I can recall, Hallowe'en was a pagan ritual initially whereas Guy Fawkes Night has a sound grounding in British history, so I see no reason why it should not be 'celebrated'.
I used to sell flexible packaging to major confectionery companies both in the UK and the USA and, given the population difference between the two, it was patently obvious which country paid the most interest to Hallowe'en although I could monitor from sales how the UK was tracking the USA.
I am not having a go at Americans, more having a go at the Brits who slavishly follow US trends. Let's face it, a great proportion of UK kids don't speak English any more - they speak American, spell American and act American. This is almost certainly down to (a) the amount of American TV they watch and (b) I.T. factors
To support Mick in his right to use this board for it's intended purpose.
They were called soapbox carts where I came from and this raises the topic of design and it's effect on ultimate performance. The classic design had an upturned box at the rear of the plank which you sat on while your biddable mate pushed. But by just having the plank you could kneel on the back on one knee whilst scooting with the other foot - the steering rope was trapped against the sides of the plank by your hands and then when terminal velocity was achieved you could lay flat on the plank as you sped down the slope and steer with your hands on both sides of the axle. You could also cover sizeable distances solo as per skate boards using the scooting technique afforded by this minimalist design.
Scale was 12" to the foot.
Quote from: newportnobby on November 05, 2013, 08:52:28 AM
... as pointed out by Sprintex.
Twasn't me, Mr Trainsdownunder got there first ;)
Paul
Quote from: RChook on November 04, 2013, 11:56:18 PM
I thort at first the "report to mod" button !
but Oh! guess what !!! hello Npn !
Please explain what you mean by this? If you think that I'd be biased towards a moderator rather than investigate an incident then you are gravely mistaken. I treat everyone as equals on here, hence the forums success.
Quote from: Tank on November 05, 2013, 09:50:58 AMPlease explain what you mean by this?
Oh yes, happy to explain, oh dear, horrible misunnerstanding almost developing !
No I didnt mean any of that Tank,
I assumed that the "report to moderator" button would go to a mod. and there I was, a humble relatively new occasional poster, taking issue (on the grounds of xenophobia, small children and religion in a modelling forum) with a global moderator that the button would report to !
A "who guards the guardians" situation !!
No, sorry, I was not assuming that the button would go to you and that my comment could be seen to crit. you, oh dear no, quite the reverse in fact.
I say "quite the reverse" because whilst I was out shopping just now
( and please no one else comment on this just for now, I am hastily typing this speeling mistooks an all, treat it as an open letter to Tank alone, to avoid horrid misunnerstandings, I will comment on other comments later ! )
where was I ? - oh yes, thinking quite the reverse because I was sorry to hear of your mishap with the laptop and I was thinking that it would be better to contemplate how many members we have, then to divide that into the cost of a new laptop and I'd be in for a tenner or two to get you back in pronto ! Rather than all this going nowhere offtopic stuff !
More later, maybe :) like good american things such as free speech and getting rid of the monarchy and horrid British traditions that only cause trouble in offshore islands - after a cup of coffeee , , ,
Edit :
An amusing "who guards the guardians" situation !!
They were called 'bogies' in 'ull; Go-karts were only for the wealthy.
Impossible to do nowadays - where would you get your pram wheels?? When I was a lad, there was always a 'dump' not too far away and pram wheels used to appear regularly, no doubt they all get recylced now.
Another thing about this time of year is that we used to carve turnips; nobody had ever seen a real pumpkin in the 70's
We called them go-karts or soap-box-karts as they were usually just a wooden box or couple of planks on wheels (and usually large pram wheels at the rear and smaller ones for the front steering ones). And then raced them down hills. But it seems they've progressed somewhat to those we used to build; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap_Box_Derby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap_Box_Derby)
H.
Quote from: H on November 05, 2013, 11:24:51 AM
We called them go-karts or soap-box-karts as they were usually just a wooden box or couple of planks on wheels (and usually large pram wheels at the rear and smaller ones for the front steering ones). And then raced them down hills. But it seems they've progressed somewhat to those we used to build; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap_Box_Derby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap_Box_Derby)
H.
You have just described mine to a Tee, H :)
Quote from: RChook on November 05, 2013, 11:01:56 AM
Edit :
An amusing "who guards the guardians" situation !!
'Sed quis custodies ipsos custodiet' is what I think you mean ;)
And I think we Brits could take umbrage at a claim that free speech is an 'American thing' but, for such a young nation, I can forgive you :-*
Quote'Sed quis custodies ipsos custodiet' is what I think you mean ;)
You could be right :)
Whilst you were inputting the above I was busy typing this :-
Ok, a few cups of coffee later and I have almost got over the shock of having upset, or come close to upsetting, Tank !!
Npn - "I am not having a go at Americans, more having a go at the Brits who slavishly follow US trends."
Ok, fair enough, I read more into your original post than I should have. Still, you put up the "Aunt Sally" and I decided to have a discuss about it ! I hope we dont fall out over it !!
Npn - " they speak American, spell American and act American. This is almost certainly down to"
Almost certainly yes,
is that bad ? it sounds a bit (could be taken as) dissaproving of American things, so maybe I didnt over-read your original post after all :) It is a terrible shame that the Americans chose to speak a form of English - because that means we dont have to learn a foreign language and so we get into trouble from all the other foreigners for not learning one of their languages.
Mind u, to an oldie it seems that the two are diverging at such a rate that if I live much longer I may nolonger understand them, so maybe it is a good thing that the brit kids are learning it ??
So, where shall we go now, perhaps discuss asking the Americans to help us disloge the monarchy ?
Since we're a democracy you'd first have to ask if the majority of the population WANT to dislodge the monarchy? Then we're getting too political which is definitely against the rules of the forum ;)
Paul
Back in the 70s when i was a kid we called them Go-eeys....(go-karts)
Finding an old pram was akin to finding King Solomons mines.
Where i live is actually built on a hill so there were no shortage of hills to race down.
The emergence of the skateboard though saw the death of the go-eey.
You never see a pram lying around anymore but has anyone else noticed that you can find bikes lying around everywhere.
Some of them even look like there is nothing wrong with them,as if the owner has just got off it and left it there.... :confused1:
Quotewe're a democracy
You're tempting me ;)
I agree, I'll stop being naughty now,
- stage left looking for a suitable lol-emoticon
So maybe we should discuss the original "Penny for the guy" subject and its relevance in a post penny world.
I mean it does seem a bit of a quaint old English tradition to cling on to when there are only newpees, err, ,
oh sorry, not even any newpees any more, just ps :(
Quote from: RChook on November 05, 2013, 12:16:29 PM
Quote'Sed quis custodies ipsos custodiet' is what I think you mean ;)
You could be right :)
Whilst you were inputting the above I was busy typing this :-
Ok, a few cups of coffee later and I have almost got over the shock of having upset, or come close to upsetting, Tank !!
Npn - "I am not having a go at Americans, more having a go at the Brits who slavishly follow US trends."
Ok, fair enough, I read more into your original post than I should have. Still, you put up the "Aunt Sally" and I decided to have a discuss about it ! I hope we dont fall out over it !!
Npn - " they speak American, spell American and act American. This is almost certainly down to"
Almost certainly yes, is that bad ? it sounds a bit (could be taken as) dissaproving of American things, so maybe I didnt over-read your original post after all :) It is a terrible shame that the Americans chose to speak a form of English - because that means we dont have to learn a foreign language and so we get into trouble from all the other foreigners for not learning one of their languages.
Mind u, to an oldie it seems that the two are diverging at such a rate that if I live much longer I may nolonger understand them, so maybe it is a good thing that the brit kids are learning it ??
So, where shall we go now, perhaps discuss asking the Americans to help us disloge the monarchy ?
Instead of disloge(ing) the monarchy, why don't we disluge the monarchy. No need for pram wheels and much quicker! Sorry, I'll get my skis :worried:
Back in the 70's, when I was a kid in Leicester, me and my mates used to build karts out of scrap we found on the local tip, just over near the old Great Central route near Gilmorton Estate.
We also used to build scrambling bikes, in the days before BMX, with Cowhorn handlebars. My mates dad owned a coach spraying business and so we would take old frames from the tip, strip them down, respray them and rebuild them. I think the only things we used to buy would have been brake blocks, sometimes we made them without brakes :goggleeyes: :goggleeyes:
We made quite a tidy profit at it actually, and the money was ploughed either back into the buying of the bits needed or saved up for our annual East Midland Rover ticket during the summer holidays ;) ;)
Ahhh happy days :laugh2:
Regards
Neal.
Quote from: scotsoft on November 04, 2013, 10:50:54 PM
Quote from: newportnobby on November 04, 2013, 10:42:47 PM
As an aside - did anyone else build a go cart from disused pram wheels, planks of wood and steered with pieces of string.
Certainly did, there was three of us who used to go about together and we built a three seater kart. There was always arguments on who was allowed to be the driver but we had so much fun on that kart :claphappy:
Screaming down the Cornish lanes around St Keverne and landing up in the stingers!
Golden days!
Dave G
We used to burn the effigy of Guy Fawkes because he was caught and found guilty of treason.
However, we might have been innocent to some hidden meaning such as anti-catholicism because Guido was French, and ergo a roman catholic - who cares :beers:
Although if this 'hidden meaning' was true - maybe nowadays it should be an effigy of an rc priest to show what the general populace feels about kiddy-fiddlers :thumbsup:
Quote from: CF-FZG on November 05, 2013, 01:48:41 PM
Although if this 'hidden meaning' was true - maybe nowadays it should be an effigy of an rc priest to show what the general populace feels about kiddy-fiddlers :thumbsup:
Hold on a moment; Not
all priests were kiddy fiddlers - when I was an alter-boy, I had to abuse myself
Quote from: FeelixTC on November 05, 2013, 01:51:32 PM
Hold on a moment; Not all priests were kiddy fiddlers - when I was an alter-boy, I had to abuse myself
:laughabovepost: :laughabovepost: :laughabovepost: :laughabovepost: :laughabovepost:
Quote from: FeelixTC on November 05, 2013, 01:51:32 PM
Hold on a moment; Not all priests were kiddy fiddlers - when I was an alter-boy, I had to abuse myself
You poor boy ! How
dare they ignore you like that ! You must be so traumatized !
:P
Don't worry; I went to scouts too :goggleeyes:
Along with 'penny for the guy' When I wer a lad in Leeds in the 1950's we used to go 'chumping' to collect combustible material for the street bonfire. Such activities also encompassed the entering of derelict back to back buildings and the removal of doors, floorboards, skirting boards etc. The bonfire was guarded carefully especially as Bonfire night drew near and especially on 4th November which was known as 'Mischief Night' - harmless fun like setting fire to the rival streets carefully collected and stacked bonfire, tying door handles together and knocking on the doors and of course removing gates from their hinges.
Also had a bogie/go kart/ sop box but would rather forget that after a rather nasty accident at the bottom of a rather steep hill after the cissie brake man fell off half way down :bounce:
ColinH
After seeing and hearing all the fireworks tonight, I really don't think the tradition is dead yet.
Shame Guy Fawkes weren't around today, his gunpowder exploits are sorely in need on all the crooks who reside in the current houses of parliament.............. LoL :D
Of course! November 5th.... Guy Fawkes night over in the UK! After nearly 40 years living here in Oz, I'd totally forgotten. Anyway, I was too busy doin' me dough along with a lot of other folk yesterday on the Melbourne Cup. :'(
The tradition for the kids round here now is to light and throw fireworks around the street, starting around a week before bonfire night and finishing when the local pop-up firework shops sell out. Shame natural selection doesn't do more for us in this situation.
Quote from: d-a-n on November 06, 2013, 05:00:33 PM
The tradition for the kids round here now is to light and throw fireworks around the street, starting around a week before bonfire night and finishing when the local pop-up firework shops sell out. Shame natural selection doesn't do more for us in this situation.
Shame they couldn't practice their new found hobby inside the houses of parliament with all 650+ MP's and black rod in full ceremonial regalia present (with all fire escapes and doors locked :laugh3:) ;) ;D
That would be fun to watch
um well sorry everyone :
Quote from: newportnobby on November 04, 2013, 10:42:47 PM
Not that I wish to encourage any more little sods to knock on my door,
I suppose that this opening put me in a bad mood to begin ! plus I did not recognise how far and wide a 'general discussion' forum section could go/deviate from a 'N gauge'/modelling discussion forum section, so, sorry.
However it seems to me that if Npn can cast his Aunt Sally into the void then I, or anyone, should be able to put the contrary view ?
ie. Guido Fawks was (obviously ?) put up to the job by the Catholic Conspiracy of (at) that time and it is continued into the present in various forms and into various communities. (is that worthy of General Discussion?)
You could say that "penny for the guy" has died out, but burning of "the guy" on the bonfire (in england) has not.
It may be that the things wot are burned are not now seen to be representations of those conspirators,
we have allsorts from witches to ships being burned now,
so it has become an anodyne.
Nevertheless, Penny for the Guy is still a particular and pecuiar
protestant English tradition.
So, if you want to celebrate that tradition who am I to stop you ?
Back to thinking N modelling
or shall I go away ?
I think there has been a fairly robust discussion on this topic with a wide range of points made so I am locking the topic - particularly as the date in question has now passed :)