Are there any opinions on this? Is there any limit, or should there be? Do you impose any limits for your own flights of fancy? Do you also concoct a believable reason for that stock to be in that location at that tme?
To me it means I can run a loco out of period and/or out of location. Taken to extremes that would mean one could run an HST on a 1920s GWR branch line, or an American "Big Boy" on the Settle and Carlisle, frankly I would suggest either of those scenarios qualify for "I don't mind a joke, but you know what you can do with a pantomime".
I tend to stick to either out of period OR out of place, not both; in the "out of place" category at the moment on my "SR in east Dorset 1930s" layout a GWR 1366 class dock pannier tank and a Sentinel Shunter, in the works a second Sentinel and an SR Z class 0-8-0T. I'm contemplating allowing an LMS 4P to come down the S&DJR, a few did in the 1920s, maybe more in other years.
The Sentinels got me thinking about Steam railcars, Langley do an LNER one which doesn't look anything like the sole SR one of 1933, however the Langley one might be "bashable" into one of the Drummond LSWR ones which didn't survive much past WW1 if that, so that if one of those came along it would only be out of period, not out of place.
Another possible use of Rule 1 could be to produce something that didn't quite get off the drawing board, for me say the Urie 4-8-0 heavy freight, or the Maunsell pacific.
My story for the 1366 is that it was borrowed from Weymouth being evaluated to see if the design was suitable to replace the B4 dock tanks, and for the Sentinels at the time diesel shunters were being thought of for the Southern, but the Sentinels were available so were being trialled.
If I go for the Drummond railcars, the story there will be that Urie and later Maunsell sorted some of the problems so they lived on into the 30s.
Thinking further about the Drummond railcars does one bash a Langley Sentinel railcar or hack a Farish suburban? Either way It's probably be another Japanese chassis, Langley say a Tomytec has been fitted to one of their Sentinels.
As I have mentioned in other posts, I don't subscribe to Rule 1 :no:
However, I just HAD to have the Blue Pullman and now have to justify it appearing in Oxfordshire.
Other than that, everything I have either did, or potentially could have, run in the era/location I am modelling.
Fair play to those who want to run what they want. That's their choice, but I have shunned many lovely looking locos simply because they would not have appeared in the area.
At the end of the day - it's your model railway & you can do whatever you like.
If rivet-counters get upset with that - stuff 'em :P They can go pretend to be the Controller on their 2-trains-an-hour exact replica of somewhere the rest of us don't care about ;)
If this hobby isn't fun - why bother ::)
Rule 2:
You can apply rule 1 as strictly or loosely as you wish. It's your railway!
Jon
Quote from: PostModN66 on October 10, 2013, 10:58:36 PM
Rule 2:
You can apply rule 1 as strictly or loosely as you wish. It's your railway!
Jon
here here.
I work with a bit of stretching here and there. My layout based on kent coast is set in the 60's with steam still heading crack express trains up to 67. In reality electrification did away with most steam workings. Also I run a pannier on a local. There were a few allocated to folkestone to replace the R1's but as far as im aware they were only used to move empty coaching stock. But who's to say if there was a failure and the pannier was sitting in the shed it wouldn't be called into action.
How long is your piece of elastic? ;D
Quote from: MikeDunn on October 10, 2013, 10:48:39 PM
At the end of the day - it's your model railway & you can do whatever you like.
If rivet-counters get upset with that - stuff 'em :P They can go pretend to be the Controller on their 2-trains-an-hour exact replica of somewhere the rest of us don't care about ;)
If this hobby isn't fun - why bother ::)
Well said that man!!
You mean, like, there are RULES.............................
When I had my test track, I won't call it a layout, I woud run UK outline, American, Japanese, Continental..... I even ran a fantasy single car EMU based on DLR
When I joined a club, several years ago, they were building a pre Beeching station and line. I took my American p42 and Superliner double decker coaches on the first night.................
As it stands,I did not need to use the rule 1 scenario as all the loco's on my layout would have all made journeys along the east coast mainline,even the western region hst sets.
That was until I got a Warship and Western.As I said in my posting on the Dapol class 52 Western thread,how could I justify running them,then Mick (Newportnobby) said they ran from oxford to Cambridge,or somewhere like that anyway and travelled up the east coast mainline for a bit.
This is all the justification I needed,either that or there is a small hydraulic repair shop within my depot.Either way it justifies me having these two loco's on my fleet.
I am at a later date,going to add to my class 24/25 fleet which currently stands at 1 class 24,just because I like them and they sound great with dcc sound fitted.
If at some point,my layout goes out onto the local exhibition circuit,this is how I'll accomodate them but for now they are there for my enjoyment.
Pete
:Class31: :Class37: :NGaugersRule:
Yep, interesting discussion... I think that the wording of rule 1 speaks for itself, though. Run what you want. However, like NPN, I do try to remain faithful to my time period (50s - early 60s) and will not be purchasing stock outside of that timeframe even though there's some mouthwatering stuff out there.
I get around running stock from different regions by giving each scene on my layout a different regional flavour, but the time period stays fixed. I picked up this idea from American mags.
George
Quote from: Dorsetmike on October 10, 2013, 10:36:49 PM
Are there any opinions on this? Is there any limit, or should there be?
Ask Petercharlesfagg, he's the greatest advocate of Rule 1 we have I think ;)
Quote from: MikeDunn on October 10, 2013, 10:48:39 PM
At the end of the day - it's your model railway & you can do whatever you like.
If rivet-counters get upset with that - stuff 'em :P They can go pretend to be the Controller on their 2-trains-an-hour exact replica of somewhere the rest of us don't care about ;)
If this hobby isn't fun - why bother ::)
That pretty much sums it up :) If you want to stick faithfully to a region/era then that's OK, but then so is running a US loco pulling a selection of European wagons and coaches with an HST power car on the back if that makes you happy :thumbsup:
With my current layout I'm sticking reasonably closely with passenger stock, freight is a bit more freelance within era but no idea if the actual wagons ever travelled on the ECML. The next layout however will run whatever takes my fancy as it will be purely designed to show off full length trains in a scenic setting, be they steam/diesel/electric and not necessarily one country ;)
Paul
Agree - ask Petercharlesfagg... he is indeed the forum's advocate on the subject! :thumbsup:
Thoughts, there, Pcf? :thumbsup:
George
My fantasy layout is where the great trains of the world (IMHO) can run so Rule 1 has to apply because it is unlikely that a Nozomi 500, Thalys and Voyager would run on the same tracks. Also I've not put up any overhead wires or third rail - in my fantasy land, all my EMUs have a special power system that allows them to run without either :oopssign:
I do have one rule and that is because my layout is in a modern setting so I can only allow one or possibly two 'heritage' trains such as the Blue Pullman.
I tend to have kept to locos that run now to be honest.
But there is always the fantasy repaint that could happen. Like the desert sand Western, (someone paid for champion to be painted and renumbered for a tour!).
But at the end of the day if you want to run it do as you want. It's only when you go out to shows that the issue will be picked at.
Alistair
I prefer the "prototype for everything" route.
By example, Southbridge has an "Down Platform Starting No 2" Signal from Platform 3. That allows longer trains to draw forwards towards the main line, foul of the branch pointwork before coming to a stand. At one show a person who claimed to be a signalling engineer claimed you could not have such an arrangement.
I explained I was a volunteer Signalman on a heritage railway and we did have such an arrangement to ensure the rear of a train did not stop foul of the level crossing. I also produced a photograph which showed just such an arrangement at an ex GWR station!
I would have thought that Rule 1, being what it is, does not require any stretching as it encompasses all ;)
cheers John.
Quote from: MikeDunn on October 10, 2013, 10:48:39 PM
At the end of the day - it's your model railway & you can do whatever you like.
If rivet-counters get upset with that - stuff 'em
Not so sure why it has to be 'rivet-counters' (whoever they are) that get upset, or even why the need to be rude about them. From what I've seen it's just as likely to be others including non-modellers, collectors, spotters, illusionists, impressionists, oldies, youngsters, kettle lovers, diesel fans, or whatever who loose their oily rags.
It's probably best to be happy in what you do, enjoy what others do, but be safe in the knowledge that it doesn't have to apply to you.
H.
Rule 1 = It's your railway, run what you like - simples ! :D
I personally will build a layout to a specific time period and i'll purchase stock to fit that period, however i'll buy anything N gauge and will happily use it on my layout regardless... I'm hoping to exhibit my layout next year and it will be run to period - except for the last hour of the show, where anything goes ! :P
I prefer 60's/70's US outline and early BR blue, but 70's German, modern Swiss, modern Japanese and anything Industrial are on my wishlist - all will run on my layout as long as it's :ngauge:
I am deep into Rule 1 mainly because I like to run French and British stock. Then there are different French and British time periods all with fictitious locations. On the layout at the moment are an SNCF BB26000 in "en voyage" livery hauling a 10 coach Corail + set, a six car Blue Pullman, a 6 coach Wrexham & Shropshire Mk 3 set pushed by a class 67, a Virgin Pretendolino 10 coach set pushed by a Freightliner Class 86, and a 4 car Cross Country Voyager. Tomorrow it could be all French, or all British, mainly freight, or mainly multiple units. Does it bother me? Not one little bit.
This is why i model heritage railways, cos rule one then no longer is applicable to anything i do as i can run what ever i like with whatever i like...
E.g. Im soon to be getting ana ustralian c38 class 3801 steam locomotive, and it will run on moorside and portland with a mix of freight, passenger stock (any livery!)And pullman stock!
I may even be tempted to get myself an hst in either swallow livery or something for my "diesel gala"
Then you have black 5s running with teaks etc
Rule one doesnt exist in my modelling world :)
I started off sticking strictly to my 1959-63 layout.
That is until I purchased a Hymek, then a Class 14 and........ I've just ordered a green Western.
Now....those three are not far off my era but I grew up with them so I'm happy.
Probably wouldn't run to buying modern stuff (as that doesn't particularly interest me) but I might stretch to non WR locos or stock that might (just might) have run in my area/time period.
If it looks OK, I can make up a convincing (to myself) argument for running it !
Quote from: Dorsetmike on October 10, 2013, 10:36:49 PM
Taken to extremes that would mean one could run an HST...
Rule 1 is what I live by! Although I tend to stick to 1980's to 2000 here are some examples:-
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/Class60NSE1.jpg) (http://s67.photobucket.com/user/tank_fv101/media/NGF/Class60NSE1.jpg.html)
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/17.jpg) (http://s67.photobucket.com/user/tank_fv101/media/NGF/17.jpg.html)
Numbers are too high...I wasn't thinking. :doh:
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/222a.jpg) (http://s67.photobucket.com/user/tank_fv101/media/222a.jpg.html)
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/125.jpg) (http://s67.photobucket.com/user/tank_fv101/media/125.jpg.html)
Old picture, but I've since done a rake of Mk3's for it.
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/2.jpg) (http://s67.photobucket.com/user/tank_fv101/media/NGF/2.jpg.html)
I have some others, but I can't find photo's.
Rule 1 believer here.
I sold all my UK stock to buy US some time ago (except my old favorite "Swallow" HST) but kept the layout as it was English Country side 1960's. Cant' stretch it any further..
I'm Rule 1 plus a bit :)
Notionally my train set (yes, I'm that far off the scale!) is set in the future at some indeterminate point in no particular (worldwide) location meaning I can justify anything from anywhere running in preservation, even if none exist now - someone could build a replica in the future! And modern stock could be in preservation by then as well...
I just enjoy running trains to be honest and fiddling around with bits of modelling - it's my chance to let my imagination run wild...
George
Quote from: Tank on October 11, 2013, 09:44:37 AM
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/125.jpg) (http://s67.photobucket.com/user/tank_fv101/media/125.jpg.html)
Old picture, but I've since done a rake of Mk3's for it.
That's it, post
that picture and make me all unnecessary again! ::) :worried: :D
Paul
Started to model late 1930's era based on joint GWR & LMS lines that allowed some LNER traffic.
Then wanted to expanded stable to include interesting BR steamers so decided to also model the mid 1950's so I could include both Early Emblem & Late Crest. In the (erroneous) belief that minimum scenic changes would be required.
Quite how I justify Intercity HST's and Class 47's I don't know.
So I suspect it will be running a rule 1 layout.
Ray
Quote from: REGP on October 11, 2013, 10:32:20 AM
Quite how I justify Intercity HST's and Class 47's I don't know.
So I suspect it will be running a rule 1 layout.
Ray
That's an easy one to explain..... there was a massive leak of chronoton particles and they fell through a rupture in space/time....
All you need is a little blue police box on the layout........
Ah! good idea Andy.
I can just play the title music as a station announcement as the train approaches.
Ray
:A1Tornado: :Class91: :Class31: :Carriage: :Class414:
If it wasn't for rule one in the Art world; Picasso would have been laughed out of the gallery.
:hellosign:
My layout is set some where in the West Country,so I can run SR and WR steam loco's along side each other,I can think of a few places where they ran side by side,Yeovil,Chard,Bodmin,Padstow.
Only thing is they might be the wrong classes,I have a Dapol Q1,Dapol,Pannier,and Dapol 0-4-2T,and a Union Mills Adams 0395,coaching stock,2 Collett Coaches.a Dapol Autocoach and various freight wagons,next on my list Grafar N1 and 3 Bullied Coaches,I was thinking of getting a Alpha Graphics 3 Hampshire set.
:A1Tornado: Mike
Quote from: REGP on October 11, 2013, 10:32:20 AM
Quite how I justify Intercity HST's and Class 47's I don't know.
Ray
You could always pretend that the 47 as been upgraded to a 57. ;D FGW have been running 57's on their night sleeper for a long while now.
If a certain Ex pat in the Southern part of Europe can run a Blue Pullman on the Fairford Branch.... ANYTHING GOES!!!
TANK, I was wondering when the NSE 125 would turn up :D Does look nice that...
Quote from: Bealman on October 11, 2013, 05:47:44 AM
Agree - ask Petercharlesfagg... he is indeed the forum's advocate on the subject! :thumbsup:
Thoughts, there, Pcf? :thumbsup:
George
Like another poster I raised my eyebrows and said to myself "There are rules?"
Thankyou George, if it is of any interest whatsoever, I have just rebuilt a defunct Class 101 using a Tomytec 18mm base unit and it runs like a dream, it even pulls my Canadian observation car and my German restaurant car, these were also coupled up with a couple of my revamped Peco kit wagons and a Kato wagon.
It looked good and as I say it ran well and so quiet!
I had a great time!
Do like Douglas Bader who stated that "Rules are made to be broken"!
Regards, Peter.
I
love Tank's approach to liveries!
It's funny how some people object to seeing a loco that's been painted in a non-prototypical way, yet will happily model entire mainlines or branchlines that never existed, or were ripped up dozens of years ago!
After all, how often have we seen nonsense liveries on real locomotives? Just thinking back to my teenage years, there were 47s and 50s in GWR livery, DMUs in chocolate and cream, even a 37 painted like a police car! I'm sure others with deeper knowledge of the subject can think of even more bizarre examples.
Cheers, NeMo
Quote from: Mr chapman on October 11, 2013, 05:19:36 PM
TANK, I was wondering when the NSE 125 would turn up :D Does look nice that...
I run anything with anything because i don`t have a clue what goes with what :P
Suits me!!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28083135@N06/6993246957/# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/28083135@N06/6993246957/#)
is pretty rule 1 - Far Tottering & Oystercreek. It's been modelled several times too.
I can also think of models based on the Discworld, and one exhiition layout has a motorised pig to run when they get an overdose of rivet counters. A mouse would be more fun IMHO, or for N I guess something like a big plastic spider.
I have a model railway so I can run trains on it. If it's a train I want to see running, I'll run it. I'm not going to spend a year building a new layout every time I want to run a different engine...
Of course if we are talking exhibitions it would be a slightly different story. On the other hand I remember back in the depths of time seeing a Kato Eurostar for the first time at ModelRail Scotland. Frankly it could have been a model of the lunar surface with an oval of track on it and we all would have happily watched it going round for hours...
And I still want one...
So if Rule 1 has gone out of the window does that mean I can run any foreign Loco on my track, Well now that has got me thinking.
Quote from: Geoff on October 11, 2013, 07:44:19 PM
So if Rule 1 has gone out of the window does that mean I can run any foreign Loco on my track, Well now that has got me thinking.
Guess why I'm modelling a ficticious HS2 style line into Birmingham ::)
Means I can run ICE services, Eurostar and once I've managed to build/convert all the bits an ETR500 (the Milan service) plus loco hauled continental sleeper service and rolling road service. Some steel stuff may follow later (on the basis that if you gauge cleared an HS2 type line into the old Snow Hill you'd then be pretty certain to take it to the Wolverhampton steel terminal).
A parcels TGV also looks very tempting.
I have tried to apply some discipline though, and stick to stuff that would feasibly go via the tunnel and appropriate motive power. With all the new testing and clearances beginning to happen that should soon be a nice wide range.
Alan
Phew - now I can happily run my US rolling stock on UK style Peco Setrack, and not feel I should be using US style track.
Rule 1 applies to every layout and its owner and simply means you run what you like. For me as a former professional railwayman it has to be realistic unless you are modelling a heritage line. Thus it is a form of rationing to keep me within the bounds of what I can afford, so it is BR standard or BR (LMR) 1950's/1960's although I am very tempted with a lot of other Regions stuff that I remember from past holidays so Rule 1 might yet apply. What will never happen is all the modern stuff and particularly painted in NSE colours.
Ron
Quote from: Lankyman on October 11, 2013, 09:38:34 PM
....stuff that I remember from past holidays so Rule 1 might yet apply. What will never happen is all the modern stuff and particularly painted in NSE colours.
Ron
:o Our headmaster may send you to the naughty corner for such language. :laugh:
Quote from: Jack9465 on October 11, 2013, 09:53:58 PM
Quote from: Lankyman on October 11, 2013, 09:38:34 PM
....stuff that I remember from past holidays so Rule 1 might yet apply. What will never happen is all the modern stuff and particularly painted in NSE colours.
Ron
:o Our headmaster may send you to the naughty corner for such language. :laugh:
We all use toothpaste....................don't we? :uneasy:
Quoteor for N I guess something like a big plastic spider.
Don't need these out here got the real thing. Had a train derail recently to find there was a "largish" Huntsman across the track on a tunnel exit. The pics I posted some time ago are of a slightly smaller version. For the non squeamish the smaller one https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-r7TjuIQ94nQ/UAQc4RgW_zI/AAAAAAAADUw/QFewtoW89Tg/w634-h845-no/P1050842.JPG (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-r7TjuIQ94nQ/UAQc4RgW_zI/AAAAAAAADUw/QFewtoW89Tg/w634-h845-no/P1050842.JPG)
As I'm a bit arachnophobic that pic scared the bejasus out of me , won't sleep tonight. When you mentioned
a " largish Huntsman " I expected to see a fat men in a red coat. Hope the train survived its encounter with
that horror.
Another rule 1 follower here. Which is why I went for a Heritage layout, as an aside can we not have so many interesting posts, it's stopping me getting on with my layout :smiley-laughing:.
The only rule I go by is do I like this train, carriage, building or other stock. If I like it it will go in somewhere :D
Rule 1 is self explanatory therefore it can be stretched infinitely, thus you could have Stephenson's Rocket
hauling 20 HTAs or nuclear flask wagons if you wished. The only limit is your imagination ( and wallet).
Quote from: Agrippa on October 17, 2013, 11:34:11 AM
, thus you could have Stephenson's Rocket
hauling 20 HTAs or nuclear flask wagons if you wished.
Sorry but thats silly!. The rocket would have to be double headed with Locomotion No 1 to haul that length of train. Ok I'm getting my coat........
Sorry , didn't think of that,,,, so I won't mention running a TGV on a West Country branch line. :D
Quote from: EtchedPixels on October 11, 2013, 07:24:51 PMone exhiition layout has a motorised pig to run when they get an overdose of rivet counters. A mouse would be more fun IMHO, or for N I guess something like a big plastic spider.
Already seen that in 00, they have a big furry rat that comes out of the tunnel, usually when some unsuspecting female is starting to look slightly bored - soon wakes them up :laugh:
Paul
:laughabovepost:
Like it!
George
Quote from: NeMo on October 11, 2013, 06:03:35 PM
I love Tank's approach to liveries!
It's funny how some people object to seeing a loco that's been painted in a non-prototypical way, yet will happily model entire mainlines or branchlines that never existed, or were ripped up dozens of years ago!
After all, how often have we seen nonsense liveries on real locomotives? Just thinking back to my teenage years, there were 47s and 50s in GWR livery, DMUs in chocolate and cream, even a 37 painted like a police car! I'm sure others with deeper knowledge of the subject can think of even more bizarre examples.
Cheers, NeMo
Quote from: Mr chapman on October 11, 2013, 05:19:36 PM
TANK, I was wondering when the NSE 125 would turn up :D Does look nice that...
Talking of nonsense liveries - look at this beauty! Spotted at Innsbruck station during my recent Euroadventure.
[smg id=7583 type=preview align=center width=400]
[smg id=7582 type=preview align=center width=400]
There was even a little hobby shop in Innsbruck that sold HO and N models of it!
[smg id=7581 type=preview align=center width=400]
Quote from: Bealman on October 19, 2013, 04:13:31 AM
Talking of nonsense liveries - look at this beauty! Spotted at Innsbruck station during my recent Euroadventure.
[smg id=7582 type=preview align=center width=400]
Love it :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Was it celebrating anything?
Hi buddy!
To be honest, I really don't know.... maybe some of our continental members can provide more info. I do know it had ROCO on the side of it - isn't that a brand of continental model railway equipment?
George
Hey George
I think ROCO is part of Fleiscmann, which makes it even more intriguing! Hopefully someone can shed some light on this cos it is seriously cool!
Yeah, Mike - when I think of it, I think the N scale model I saw in that shop was by Fleischmann..... and as well as being seriously cool, was also seriously expensive!
The lovely thing about Rule 1 is that it really isn't a rule.
I'm just like a magpie and all trains are lovely shiney things so I have to be able to run whatever I like
So its UK, Canadian, Japanese, German, Other European, steam, diesel, electric I love it all and run it all.
I also enjoy the challenge of making a layout that looks good with all of these things, and it is possible! I'm very inspired by Jerry's amazingly lovely layout over at http://www.quinntopia.com/ (http://www.quinntopia.com/). I'm not sure what it is but it just works so well with so many different trains.
Those of you who focus on just a single country should check it out regardless as its just lovely eye candy
Graham
The only thing I currently stick to is that I don't run electric units as my railway isn't an electrified line... However as there are more and more good electrified models I'm tempted to apply Rule 1 to that as well.
I'm another magpie and buy locos based on colour and shape and wagons because I like the typography. I do try to make up reasonably authentic trains though.
Some rivet counters (and I have seen real ones at a show so they do exist) would point out small faults like livery for instance but miss quite obvious things because there is a sort of convention that applies to model railways.
When you think about it, we model a world that ends at the edge of the baseboard, in which only the trains move. We also miss quite a lot of detail out and you often see locos without drivers, coaches without passengers, trains without lamps vehicles from the wrong era etc.
I haven't seen any real fantasy layouts which I think is a shame, perhaps those trying them have been shouted down by the so-called 'experts' and discouraged from producing them.
Forum challenge perhaps?
Quote from: silly moo on November 15, 2013, 02:47:44 PM
Some rivet counters (and I have seen real ones at a show so they do exist) would point out small faults like livery for instance but miss quite obvious things because there is a sort of convention that applies to model railways.
When you think about it, we model a world that ends at the edge of the baseboard, in which only the trains move. We also miss quite a lot of detail out and you often see locos without drivers, coaches without passengers, trains without lamps vehicles from the wrong era etc.
A good point, well made
I've seen a few fantasy layouts including one set in Ankh Morpork, a rather strange one in Mordor and one that looked like a black and white photograph (including all the rolling stock)
Plus of course Far Tottering and Oyster Creek has been modelled several times
I would like to see any theme done really well - (even something with steam engines if it really evokes a compelling feeling of representing a real place!)
I really like the Far Twittering layouts I have seen in the flesh and in magazines; I also saw a very light hearted German castle layout a couple of years ago (in N) with an unfeasible twisting branch line up to a lofty peak, which was great fun.
And I love Quintopia's EDO video.
But what I don't get is where someone does a really nice "serious" layout then adds a strange feature like a dinosaur, or shop names like "D.Kay dentist" or "Bodgit and Bolt" - it then just seems to fall between two stools.
Still, rule 1 - they're free to do as they like!
Cheers Jon :)
Quote from: PostModN66 on November 15, 2013, 05:36:19 PM
But what I don't get is where someone does a really nice "serious" layout then adds a strange feature like a dinosaur, or shop names like "D.Kay dentist" or "Bodgit and Bolt" - it then just seems to fall between two stools.
The real world can be just as silly though. We've got a Herr Kutz (barber) and used to have a Pizza da Action 8)
As you know I tend to back my videos up with sounds of real trains, so my general rule 1 is that I'll run anything that I can create a sound-track for, and with my sound editor I can mix & match locos and rakes as required, although I try to recreate real workings where possible, but at the same time enjoy applying a bit of Rule 1, even down to fictitious liveries.
Quote from: EtchedPixels on November 15, 2013, 09:10:27 PM
The real world can be just as silly though.
Proof of that a couple of weeks ago - I saw a Western hauling welded rail!
D1015 Western Champion on 4M10 Welded Rail 05/11/2013 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_p6WCdjDZI#ws)
Thanks Chris - brought back some great memories :thumbsup:
Layouts are built for our enjoyment so if you choose to run within the confines of a locale or era and that pleases you there is nothing wrong with that.
If however, like me, you want to run different things and create your own little "world" go ahead. In my case I will have a mixture of British and German which will include architecture as well as locos and rolling stock because there are elements of each I like..
My opinion.
:thankyousign:
As I've said before on this forum, we're just big boys and girls playing with trains. 8)
If some of you are interested in modelling "foreign" locos and rolling stock, you really should have a look at some of the Aus ones. Here are a couple of sites - just don't let the prices put you off - remember we have to cope with those all the time!
http://www.sar-nscale.com/ (http://www.sar-nscale.com/) or
http://www.aust-n-rail.com.au/category25_1.htm (http://www.aust-n-rail.com.au/category25_1.htm) I have 7 of the grain wagons. The last loco I bought was the little T class, with DCC
http://www.aust-n-rail.com.au/images/t_382_sml.jpg. (http://www.aust-n-rail.com.au/images/t_382_sml.jpg.)
cheers, Bill.
The guy who is currently exhibiting a cartoon-like layout with bendy houses and narrow gauge looking trains has made a good stance against the rivet counters and those who feel the compelling need to observe that a turntable is going round the wrong way.
Can't remember what it is called but the mag pictures make it look great. His next layout is going to be based on a fictional prototype that served the trenches in WW1. Shouldn't get too many Rule 1 fanatics to critique that.
Quote from: ParkeNd on November 16, 2013, 10:15:12 AM
The guy who is currently exhibiting a cartoon-like layout with bendy houses and narrow gauge looking trains has made a good stance against the rivet counters and those who feel the compelling need to observe that a turntable is going round the wrong way.
Can't remember what it is called but the mag pictures make it look great. His next layout is going to be based on a fictional prototype that served the trenches in WW1. Shouldn't get too many Rule 1 fanatics to critique that.
That sounds like our club secretary. He has plenty of diverse interests and likes going off piste with his modelling. The Wipers , Fish Hook and Menen Railway is S gauge running on N gauge track. His cartoon layout was the Lumpy Barmcake and Salted Cracker Railway ( LBSCR).
There's a good short video of the LBSCR on the net(can't add link ) , very entertaining, it's like seeing something after a long bevvy session.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQPTYoz06xM&feature=youtube_gdata_player (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQPTYoz06xM&feature=youtube_gdata_player)
How far can you stretch Rule 1 ???
about 5 miles in N gauge....
Having spent only two years going to MR Exhibitions, and building my own collection of stock, I've taken a lot more enjoyment from those layouts applying modellers' licence quite liberally.
Funnily enough, I don't take the same approach to TV - I get quite annoyed with implausible or unlikely plots, but that's an aside.
I started with the intention of only collecting stock from the sectorisation era, and modelling a small station in NSE colours. Well, I'm sticking with NSE colours for the station, but the trains will be a mish-mash of everything. I got fed up with the constant feeling that even though I liked certain models, they wouldn't 'belong' in my collection - which is obviously nonsense. Life imposes all sorts of limitations, from time, space, money, skills, and the limitations of what's avaliable on the market anyway. It seemed silly to impose more constraints just for the sake of it.
Having said that, I do like the train to be plausible from front-to-back, i.e. matching (with some imagination if need be) the loco to its coaches / wagons.
Hi Richey,
I personally think that is a great posting. Life throws all sorts of stuff at you, and somedays, I'm just glad to open me eyes, so being able to be a railway modeller is a bonus.
But I also like your maxim of running plausible trains. Let's face it - and I realised this on a recent UK and European trip - the countryside (not townscapes) hasn't changed all that much in the last 60 years, but the locos and trains have.
What I'm suggesting here is, that with a suitably non-descript and well modelled countryside landscape, you can run trains of any era through it. But - as you suggest - make them all authentic to the particular timeframe, with plausible train formations.
Cheers, George.
Quite. I'm very strapped for MR time these days, and from the outset, I decided to cocentrate on scenery rather than trains or operation. Thinking back, I started out planning to make a static diorama, but then the MR bug set in, and you probably know what happens next...
In fact, at one frustrating point where I was struggling with wiring etc, I nearly considered building a layout with no points, and aiming instead to build the most attractive layout I could, with just a circuit of track. I've actually seen some very impressive layouts in this style.
But points and crossings are part of the scenery, so I just reduced them to a tasteful minimum, and saved my limited space for the landscape. I've got no intention of building models from kits or scratch - I'm sold on what Graham Farish can achieve these days being good enough and attractive enough for me. I don't mind kit models at all, but I wanted to save my 'modelling' time for buildings, scenery, and the stash of Airfix planes that are in the loft.
I also have something of a crush on Oxford Diecasts, but their models gravitate heavily back to the middle of the last century, so viewers of my layout (when complete) will have to work out for themselves why there's a British Railways Scamell Scarab within spitting distance of an EWS shunter.
I won't be exhibiting my layout as such. I'm a sociable person, but some of the types I meet at MR exhibitions are downright rude. If someone has spent hundreds or thousands of pounds and hours on a project and completed it, then congratulate them and take away the lessons of what works and doesn't. Telling him that his trains are wrong, even for someone that might be a bit socially awkward, strikes me as unforgiveably rude.
Quote from: Richey1977 on January 13, 2014, 12:24:05 PM
Funnily enough, I don't take the same approach to TV - I get quite annoyed with implausible or unlikely plots, but that's an aside.
I agree there, they're supposed to be professionals and are paid to do research on the subject. If their plot falls down because of the lack of a simple-to-check fact, shame on them...
Noted Richey's remarks with interest. If you accept Rule 1 then there are no limits to what you run on your layout , some members have mentioned running certain locos just because they liked a particular model which is as good as good a reason as any, running US , Japanese and continental stock on the same layout. At exhibitions I think it would be slightly different if a certain layout is on display you would expect the stock to be of the correct era, type, livery, consist etc especially if a real location is being modelled. Whether you should tell the exhibitor there is an error I don't know if many people would do that, but they certainly shouldn't be rude. In the end it's up to you.
To me the only restriction on Rule 1 is cash!
Quote from: talisman56 on January 13, 2014, 01:44:30 PM
Quote from: Richey1977 on January 13, 2014, 12:24:05 PM
Funnily enough, I don't take the same approach to TV - I get quite annoyed with implausible or unlikely plots, but that's an aside.
I agree there, they're supposed to be professionals and are paid to do research on the subject. If their plot falls down because of the lack of a simple-to-check fact, shame on them...
It's not so much a lack of research, just a reluctance to accept that life is actually a rather slow and prosaic process. On TV, Police investigations are conducted with immense drama, often with stuff exploding, and no paperwork. The last episode of The Bill I watched involved a skeleton being discovered after 20 years in the ground - a small team of PCs had it identified with a subject in custody within 24 hours.
And nobody in a drama programme EVER attempts recasautation (sp?). They find a person dying, let him bleed out, then call the time of death. Drives me mad, that does.
Eastenders and Coronation Street have all the ethnic diversity of an Eastbourne retirement home, which is strange, for programmes that supposed to reflect 'normal' neighbourhoods.
Anyway, I'm off-topic now.
Quote from: Agrippa on January 13, 2014, 01:51:06 PM
If you accept Rule 1 then there are no limits to what you run on your layout , some members have mentioned running certain locos just because they liked a particular model which is as good as good a reason as any, running US , Japanese and continental stock on the same layout. At exhibitions I think it would be slightly different if a certain layout is on display you would expect the stock to be of the correct era, type, livery, consist etc especially if a real location is being modelled. Whether you should tell the exhibitor there is an error I don't know if many people would do that, but they certainly shouldn't be rude. In the end it's up to you.
I completely agree with that. What I (or anyone!) run on my layout/oval of track etc in my own home is nobody's business but mine. I'm doing it for my personal enjoyment.
When it comes to exhibitions that balance changes slightly (not entirely) - it is not just the owner's/operator's enjoyment but also those of the public. So for me, a degree of realism on the stock (as well as the rest of layout) is important - that is the case whether I am viewing the layouts as a member of the public or with my exhibition managers hat on.
Cheers, Mike
In terms of answering the thread title, "as far as you want to, and think you can get away with".
When at home, your world is your oyster, there's no-one around who can nay-say what you are running at that point in time: if you like it and enjoy seeing it run, all's well and good. There is no way I would run, for example, a Dapol 'Western' or a Farish 'Blue Pullman' on my layout if I exhibited it, as they would be completely at odds with the stated location and owning/running company, but they are such good models I am constantly fighting the little voice in my head :whisper: saying, 'go on, buy one'... >:D Another aspect is that SWMBO has gotten used to the colour of the rolling stock and would instantly spot any interlopers :doh:
Having not exhibited before, I would imagine in my instance that I would be very bored driving the same stuff around all day, so am toying with the idea of running 3 or 4 distinct periods in order and changing the stock to reflect those periods e.g. mid-30s (gotta use that 'Southern' M7 somehow), first half of 50s (Blood and Custard, anyone?) and mid-60s, to start with. Spend an hour or 90 minutes on each and then move on, in an 'exhibiting day' can get through the cycle twice. Go a long way to alleviating 'exhibitor boredom' and give the paying public something interesting to look at if they decide to pop back for another look later on...
I could imagine that the scenery and buildings would need to be fairly non-committal in terms of period, but as George said earlier, the scenery doesn't change, but the trains do. The only bugbear could be that someone spots the 'hot-dog' station signage while I was running the 30s, but ho-hum...
Quote from: talisman56 on January 13, 2014, 02:43:57 PM
if I exhibited it, as they would be completely at odds with the stated location and owning/running company, but they are such good models I am constantly fighting the little voice in my head :whisper: saying, 'go on, buy one'...
I know exactly what you mean - the temptation to buy stuff because I like it rather than because I could ever conceivably need it is very strong! I've narrowed things down to 3 or 4 potential layouts which I might ever build (at least one means I need much more space - WCML!) and have tried to be much more disciplined at only buying things which fit the locations and eras I'm interested in, fortunately there is some overlap for most things, though I am not sure how I got to interest in mid-late 70s WR blue!
Quote from: talisman56 on January 13, 2014, 02:43:57 PM
Having not exhibited before, I would imagine in my instance that I would be very bored driving the same stuff around all day, so am toying with the idea of running 3 or 4 distinct periods in order and changing the stock to reflect those periods e.g. mid-30s (gotta use that 'Southern' M7 somehow), first half of 50s (Blood and Custard, anyone?) and mid-60s, to start with. Spend an hour or 90 minutes on each and then move on, in an 'exhibiting day' can get through the cycle twice. Go a long way to alleviating 'exhibitor boredom' and give the paying public something interesting to look at if they decide to pop back for another look later on...
Quite often you will see layouts which run one era one day and a different one the next and that can be very effective. Exhibitor (and public) boredom can also depend on the layout design ie is it a roundy-roundy with trains going past or does it have more operational interest?
Quote from: talisman56 on January 13, 2014, 02:43:57 PM
I could imagine that the scenery and buildings would need to be fairly non-committal in terms of period, but as George said earlier, the scenery doesn't change, but the trains do. The only bugbear could be that someone spots the 'hot-dog' station signage while I was running the 30s, but ho-hum...
Interchangeable signs? eg station signs with pins which slot into holes/tubes. Vehicles can also be a bit of a givewaway.
Cheers, Mike
I think that if you wanted to run a rule 1 layout at an exhibition all you would need to do is state somewhere that it was freelance.
Or do what one of my friends does when told that this, that or the other is wrong, he replies "I know" and leaves it at that.
I read on another forum that someone has built a Rivet Counter Detector Van, I've seen one that is an actual road vehicle and one that forms part of a train, I think they are both in 00 so we need a few N Gauge ones. :D
Quote from: silly moo on January 13, 2014, 03:12:19 PM
I think that if you wanted to run a rule 1 layout at an exhibition all you would need to do is state somewhere that it was freelance.
Or do what one of my friends does when told that this, that or the other is wrong, he replies "I know" and leaves it at that.
I read on another forum that someone has built a Rivet Counter Detector Van, I've seen one that is an actual road vehicle and one that forms part of a train, I think they are both in 00 so we need a few N Gauge ones. :D
Now, THAT is a great idea for the N Gauge Society to make as an exclusive model: a Rivet Counter Detector Van! :bounce:
My basic criteria are anything which ran somewhere in North Cornwall 1962 - 1969 or COULD have done as it was allocated nearby, e.g. at Exeter, Plymouth (SR and WR) so BR Green Class 03s and Class 04s can appear at Cant Cove and Penmayne. Or, I can makeup a believable scenario, like a WR Class 14 being loaned for PWM trains. I can stretch this further by having a scenario where the WR UPGRADED the Bodmin Road - Wadebridge - Padstow line to allow heavier locos. to run so they could run through trains off the WR mainline. Interestingly the WR DID lay new 109lb/yd flat-bottom rail on pre-stressed concrete sleepers on parts of the North Cornwall Line in 1963. I just imagine that they finished the process so i can run Class 42 Warships as well as Class 35 Hymeks (at least one made it to Bude and several appeared at Exmouth Jn. shed) and Class 22's. (I draw the line at scheduling heavier locos but will run a Class 52 and a Class 46 for my own pleasure; also Jubilee "Alberta" as it was an old schoolfriend's favourite loco. But nothing truly 'far out'!)
I also have the "Atlantic Coast Express" running (summer only) to the end of SR steam in 1967.
The GWS, in its early days, did have a presence at Bodmin General shed. (Alas, later demolished.) I've expanded the number of preserved (G)WR liveried locos and have a devolved local management (like Cornish Railways in late BR days) that allows 'plandampf' weekends where they run supported by the local council to increase tourism. (There is a complicated 'back story' which i won't go into here.)
I also have stock for the BR Blue / Speedlink period but, for now, only one BR Blue mainline loco. (a Class 37) for when i want to recreate the BR days i remember best. I do have a DB-fitted BR Blue Class 03 though to shunt the AB-fitted stock, including container wagons!
Many of us follow the "it might have been" philosophy for the line we run - but rarely take this to its logical conclusion.
If our line had been built in the form we propose, what would have actually happened?
Put simply more of everything would have been required.
eg even if we have a simple single track, one-engine-in steam branch, that means there would have been one more locomotive on the companies stock. this could have been one that never appeared in our area, simply because allocations would have been different. It ay be that scrapping of a particular loco would have been delayed - so we can run it after its actual scrapping date. It might be that an extra loco would have been built in a particular class giving us a bit of a free hand.
Schedules for shopping for maintenance, modifications, repaints, etc would have worked out slightly differently - allowing us a loco in what is theoretically the "wrong" livery (either too old or too new) for our period.
If our system is a bit more extensive, it could even have led to one or two classes not normally seen in the area being allocated.
My Cambrian area layout could therefore see a "Dean Goods" a bit after the last one left the coast; I could draft in one or two "large prairies" to boost the small ones common in the area; I do't need to worry too much if every loco is in the right livery for 1960 (or whenever); I could claim that an extra "Manor" was built (there is a building near where I live called "Grange Manor"} - naming it after that would give rise to some fun with the rivet-counters!
And then of course there are other, wider questions ...
Would the incrase in traffic generated resulted in Barmouth (and the other) Bridge (and the others) being upgraded to "red" route status?
What would have appeared if diseasels moved onto the Cambrian before the hand-over to the Midland Region.
The list goes on ... even before we come to questions about excursions, diversions, etc, etc ...
I personally restrict Rule 1 to what I can justify ...
I think how far removed from the prototype one's layout goes is really a matter of individual comfort. All the points you raise are valid ones. I, also, restrict Rule 1 to what I can justify and does not look out-of-place.
I invented a complex back story to explain why Penmayne grew to be much bigger than Padstow to justify extra traffic and it staying open under the WR after Paddington took over the ex-SR lines. I began with WTTs for Padstow but then added summer extras based on those that ran to nearby Newquay in the same time period. I ended up with Penmayne - Wadebridge being one of the most intensively worked (at summer Saturdays) single-track lines! But, the timings are accurate and I do have a station with a long passing loop, Cant Cove, for trains to pass. All train formations were shortened but models of the same types of carriages used were bought and allocated to prototypical rakes.
I also read extensively about local railway history to understand how to realistically justify a line from Wadebridge to Penmayne being built and built earlier than the one to Padstow and being run jointly by the LSWR and GWR and their successors.
That said, operationally, as far as locomotives, rolling stock, and timetables, I have tried to stick as closely as possible to SR and WR operating practice in North Cornwall in the 1960s. Buildings and station layouts will also be based on real-life North Cornwall Railway prototypes and scenery will be based on Cornish prototypes found on the WWW.
Personally I like what I like and the devil if you don't. I currently run mainly BR green but if I want to stretch that I can imagine the green era is part of a preserved network and a more modern loco or an older one can quite happily run there as a visitor or tourist attraction.
I am literally miles away from even completing my scenery/buildings/road vehicles.......(or should that be from starting them) but in the unlikely event that anyone should come into my conservatory and criticise then they can find the door and I'll try not to lose any sleep over it.
One of my favourite sayings is that you should never put yourself down, there are plenty of people who will do that for you!
To echo other sentiments it's my railway and I'll do what I like with it!
Don't forget that in the 1950's - early 1970's (?) there were many specials run, especially football supporters trains (remember all those wrecked carriages ::)) and holiday excursion traffic so some locos could turn up in the most unlikely places ;)
Excellent point, Nobby. Thanks for the reminder. :bounce:
That is a good point, and you can even get to make up little 'special' signs and stick em on the front!
Really stretching rule 1: Convert to 009, and use old N gauge Merchant Navy loco, with 00 figure sitting on bunker and driving it - like a large scale model being used (Romney Hythe and Dimchurch style). Either that, or I sell my MN!
Hey, why not? Seriously, I think that the idea has merit!
You might have started something here, Kipper.... 00 encroaching onto the NGF....
But I'm a great fan of the Laal Ratty! :thumbsup:
Quote from: Bealman on January 13, 2014, 10:21:29 PM
That is a good point, and you can even get to make up little 'special' signs and stick em on the front!
That's how I justify having a 3-car BR Green Class 101, it's an enthusiast special, LCGB, RCTS, CAMRA . . .
I started off running whatever I liked on my GCR based layout, now I stick to what would have been seen on the GC in the Notts area between 1948 & 1966, with exceptions! I currently have two class 20's(didn't run in service on the GC, but who doesn't like 20's??), an A4(I'm told that Mallard and Eisenhower were dragged up the GC in the 60's, and there may have been at least one A4 hauled special, but my partner loves A4's, and she bought it...) and a Robinson L1/L3(all moved to the London area by 1948 and displaced by Thompson L3's).
I'm also seriously considering a Blue Pullman, and will buy and run any ex GCR locos, even those classes that were long withdrawn by 1948!
Chris
Can anybody suggest a scenario for a pair of PD Marsh Sentinels in East Dorset 1930s?
My excuse is they were an interim measure introduced before the Maunsell diesel shunters arrived.
Quote from: Dorsetmike on January 14, 2014, 12:05:07 PM
Can anybody suggest a scenario for a pair of PD Marsh Sentinels in East Dorset 1930s?
My excuse is they were an interim measure introduced before the Maunsell diesel shunters arrived.
They were sent on evaluation on behalf of an important SR freight customer who was considering buying them for use on their internal rail network? (I believe that this sometimes happened?)
Quote from: Kipper on January 13, 2014, 11:52:31 PM
Really stretching rule 1: Convert to 009, and use old N gauge Merchant Navy loco, with 00 figure sitting on bunker and driving it - like a large scale model being used (Romney Hythe and Dimchurch style). Either that, or I sell my MN!
:laugh3: :laugh3: :smiley-laughing: :bounce: Now theres a great idea :claphappy:
That has been done a few times.
For N however the RHDR is shade under 3mm gauge - ie T.
HO and OO with Z scale track and people sat on the tenders of Märklin steam locos however does work. You just need to scratchbuild a few coaches.
Alan
Quote from: Dorsetmike on October 10, 2013, 10:36:49 PM
To me it means I can run a loco out of period and/or out of location. Taken to extremes that would mean one could run an HST on a 1920s GWR branch line, or an American "Big Boy" on the Settle and Carlisle, frankly I would suggest either of those scenarios qualify for "I don't mind a joke, but you know what you can do with a pantomime".
I once saw a "Big Boy" on a OO scale model of Highworth (near Swindon) and the loco was longer than the platform! Sadly, because of British gauge restrictions the loco hit the platform edge as it ran in! :doh: Oh well, it was the last 30 minutes of a local model show and the serious running had stopped for a few minutes of "anything goes running" and someone (can't think who :angel: ;)) suggested that the US layout on the opposite side of the corridor might like to try running a loco on a GWR branch line .... etc! :laugh3:
Quote from: EtchedPixels on January 14, 2014, 08:37:27 PM
That has been done a few times.
Shifting sands being my personal favourite...
http://o9modeller.blogspot.co.uk/p/shifting-sands-seen-both-out-on-theroad.html (http://o9modeller.blogspot.co.uk/p/shifting-sands-seen-both-out-on-theroad.html)
Steve
Shifting Sands looks very good. Certainly a concept I haven't seen before in model form.
Quote from: Dorsetmike on January 14, 2014, 12:05:07 PM
Can anybody suggest a scenario for a pair of PD Marsh Sentinels in East Dorset 1930s?
My excuse is they were an interim measure introduced before the Maunsell diesel shunters arrived.
I am certain that there was a Sentinel (OK not the PD Marsh one) based at Radstock on the Somerset & DORSET.
Quote from: Jerry Howlett on February 27, 2014, 04:50:14 PM
Quote from: Dorsetmike on January 14, 2014, 12:05:07 PM
Can anybody suggest a scenario for a pair of PD Marsh Sentinels in East Dorset 1930s?
My excuse is they were an interim measure introduced before the Maunsell diesel shunters arrived.
I am certain that there was a Sentinel (OK not the PD Marsh one) based at Radstock on the Somerset & DORSET.
Yes there was, there may have even been two based at Radstock - i'd love to tell you more but i can't find me S&D book.... :'(
My layouts are Rule 1- I run what I want. That means giving outings to the locos etc I couldn't bear to part with every time I've changed era or location.
If I'm exhibiting the layout it is another matter- I try to run a convincing set of trains for the location and period. They will NOT be exactly right- too many gaps in the available locos and stock (even with kits).
My LNER pacifics will run on my German light railway at home, and also at home Hawthorn Dene Washery is sometimes shunted by a New York Central EMD switcher.
Oddly enough the only exhibition complaint about Furtwangen Ost's tramway wasn't that I was running some Tokyo trams in the Black Forest, but that I hadn't sprung the pantographs and used real wire.........
All the very best
Les
who HAD tried sprung pantographs and real wire, but wire strong enough to depress pantographs to pass under small archways looked more like an overhead of steel girder!
Although I'm largely keeping to roughly mid 60s- last days of steam, I'm thinking of getting a blue "Arrows of Indecision" Class 33 for nostalgia, as it was the loco in the first train set I had, with three mk2 s - Lima HO scale (not OO!) (This one, set 5506P about half way down (http://limabritishho.zxq.net/LBHO-Sets.htm))
Surely Rule 1 means only "that there are no rules". To ask how far Rule 1 can be taken is to say "yes, but there must be some rules because I cannot accept the meaning of Rule 1". This then becomes a Rule 2 like a vegetarian who eats fish and chicken. A vegetarian eats no meat of any kind - a Rule 1 modeller runs ANYTHING he likes - not anything except ----------------
Stand back and everything is clear. Get in too close and the water gets muddy.
Quote from: ParkeNd on March 01, 2014, 11:24:34 PM
Surely Rule 1 means only "that there are no rules". To ask how far Rule 1 can be taken is to say "yes, but there must be some rules because I cannot accept the meaning of Rule 1". This then becomes a Rule 2 like a vegetarian who eats fish and chicken. A vegetarian eats no meat of any kind - a Rule 1 modeller runs ANYTHING he likes - not anything except ----------------
Stand back and everything is clear. Get in too close and the water gets muddy.
OK so, rather than Rule 1, should we be thinking more on the lines (sorry) of our Modellers Licence? (to be displayed whilst non prototypical operations are in progress?) :whistle:
Quote from: Dorsetmike on March 02, 2014, 11:07:09 AM
Quote from: ParkeNd on March 01, 2014, 11:24:34 PM
Surely Rule 1 means only "that there are no rules". To ask how far Rule 1 can be taken is to say "yes, but there must be some rules because I cannot accept the meaning of Rule 1". This then becomes a Rule 2 like a vegetarian who eats fish and chicken. A vegetarian eats no meat of any kind - a Rule 1 modeller runs ANYTHING he likes - not anything except ----------------
Stand back and everything is clear. Get in too close and the water gets muddy.
OK so, rather than Rule 1, should we be thinking more on the lines (sorry) of our Modellers Licence? (to be displayed whilst non prototypical operations are in progress?) :whistle:
Only if you need Rules Mike?
Yeah.... I think that "Modeller's Licence" and "Stretching Rule 1" can be read as one and the same.
I've said many times on this forum - it is a hobby.... we are just playin' trains. In the long run, the world isn't going to be any different tomorrow if I run a German ICE right next door to a Jinty-hauled freight on my layout tonight.
George
Quote from: Bealman on March 02, 2014, 11:51:58 AM
I've said many times on this forum - it is a hobby.... we are just playin' trains. In the long run, the world isn't going to be any different tomorrow if I run a German ICE right next door to a Jinty-hauled freight on my layout tonight.
Amen to that ;)
Paul
Quote from: Sprintex on March 02, 2014, 12:07:17 PM
Quote from: Bealman on March 02, 2014, 11:51:58 AM
I've said many times on this forum - it is a hobby.... we are just playin' trains. In the long run, the world isn't going to be any different tomorrow if I run a German ICE right next door to a Jinty-hauled freight on my layout tonight.
Amen to that ;)
Paul
Paul, the same argument I use to justify a Class 14 in BR Green on a 1970 layout. In reality I believe some people DO take this hobby a little too seriously. :sleep:
Quote from: D1042 Western Princess on March 02, 2014, 05:26:38 PM
Quote from: Sprintex on March 02, 2014, 12:07:17 PM
Quote from: Bealman on March 02, 2014, 11:51:58 AM
I've said many times on this forum - it is a hobby.... we are just playin' trains. In the long run, the world isn't going to be any different tomorrow if I run a German ICE right next door to a Jinty-hauled freight on my layout tonight.
Amen to that ;)
Paul
Paul, the same argument I use to justify a Class 14 in BR Green on a 1970 layout. In reality I believe some people DO take this hobby a little too seriously. :sleep:
The fact that a Class 14 looks good in green is enough reason to run it. Nothing else matters if that is your philosophy.
Others are perfectly entitled to hamstring themselves with as many self imposed restrictions as they want - but best kept to themselves without trying to convert others against their wishes.
It all depends on how closely you want to model a particular geographical area in a particular period in time (some people do, some don't, and that's fine; it's THEIR layout). The area and the time set the limits of what can be realistically operated. If you're NOT modelling a particular geographical area in a particular period in time then there are, de facto, no limitations and you can run whatever you want and have whatever scenery you like. Personally, I want to model a particular geographical area (North Cornwall) in a particular period in time (1961-1968 approx.) as I find that more satisfying. It's also, IMHO, easier to model a specific geographical area and it's easier to know what to operate and how to operate it if you have a prototype(s) to follow and pictures for inspiration.
My plans have altered, for various reasons, but Rule One is going to save me in at least one way. I'm loath to give up my DP1 or either of my Union Mills locos so I plan on using them as "Excursion" locos on a future North American layout. Oh, they could be purchases made by a rich eccentric rail-fan, maybe a British Ex-Pat living in the US? He wants to give rail tours, even at a loss, just to show off the beauty of UK power. Whatever...I want to see the Prince of Wales in Red and the Deltic DP1 hauling things in the American Southwest.
Quote from: scottmitchell74 on August 17, 2014, 06:10:30 PMpurchases made by a rich eccentric rail-fan, to show off the beauty of UK power.
speaking of rail-fans :) It was done with the Flying Scotsman over there (Alan Peggler (?spelling)), in fact the whole thing was so eccentric the poor old loco nearly didnt come back.
So I dont see why your Prince of Wales shouldnt do the same.
But if it is beauty you are after demonstrating I'm not sure about the Deltic :)Ducks&Runs :)
On a serious night the only thing I try to do is run the right Loco with the right stock wether coaches or freight if I'm just in the shed to enjoy the railway I run what I want when I want, as said in another post some people take model railways to seriously . after all the whole hobby is a compromise,(ie) the people , the cars, lorries ,animals etc don't move the steam trains and the diesels are actualy electric, the doors on them don't open and so on.
My late friend Cyril and I went to Stoke Mandeville one year he wanted to see a certain layout shown in one of the magazines it was a huge layout right across the hall, he was very angry when he saw it in the flesh ,one train running about every 20 mins then the operators sat down reading the paper the rest of the time ok in reality it was running correctly but as he told the operators he paid good money to see it .His votefor best layout was a small German layout with trains running here there and everywhere. there's room in the hobby for so called rivet counters and for those that just want to run trains whatever they are in my opinion
Bob
Quote from: Bob Tidbury on August 17, 2014, 08:04:47 PM
he was very angry when he saw it in the flesh ,one train running about every 20 mins then the operators sat down reading the paper the rest of the time ok in reality it was running correctly but as he told the operators he paid good money to see it
Exactly !!! That kind of behaviour takes the p*** !!! Still ... lucky they weren't modelling a strike day, at least they ran 3 an hour !!! :thumbsdown:
Quote from: scottmitchell74 on August 17, 2014, 06:10:30 PM
My plans have altered, for various reasons, but Rule One is going to save me in at least one way. I'm loath to give up my DP1 or either of my Union Mills locos so I plan on using them as "Excursion" locos on a future North American layout. Oh, they could be purchases made by a rich eccentric rail-fan, maybe a British Ex-Pat living in the US? He wants to give rail tours, even at a loss, just to show off the beauty of UK power. Whatever...I want to see the Prince of Wales in Red and the Deltic DP1 hauling things in the American Southwest.
Who else will know about your guilty secret ???
As has been written, there is room for all types of modelers in this hobby, if I see a layout that is true to its era and the detailing is excellent then I admire the hard work that has gone into it. If a layout has a mixed batch of locos and rolling stock, as long as the operator in enjoying him/ herself then that is the whole point of having a hobby - having fun and enjoying yourself ;)
cheers John :NGaugersRule:
I esentially treat the two things (layout and stock) as separate things. My layout is esentially a series of vignettes squashed together on my board.
I run what I want, what I like and what I can get hold of.
What I find most 'interesting' is the choices that people make when faced with the necessity to compromise on something.
The question is a bit of a paradox, since Rule 1 means you run
whatever you like on your layout thus the rule means there are
no limits to what you run , ie infinity.
Thus stretching the rule is a contradictory statement in this case.
Stretching is really about " justifying" certain operations as prototypical
by suggesting that a certain train, loco or livery appeared for a short
while in a location or time period which was may or may not have happened
in real life.
In the end it's just a bit of fun ............
Rule 1? Never heard of it :D
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/jivebunnystudios/854D53D2-F307-4FED-920C-72FA87165276_zpsdhdgwbge.jpg)
JB
Way to go ! :thumbsup:
Agreed, it's about that moment when you've finished a spot of modelling, the scenery. building etc to the best of your ability, that you want that hour or so of pure escapism that you get running the very items that you built the layout for in the first place. :thankyousign: