Link posted on the SEmG grouip
http://grahammuz.com/2013/09/16/first-pictures-arnold-hornby-n-gauge-brighton-belle-engineering-prototype/ (http://grahammuz.com/2013/09/16/first-pictures-arnold-hornby-n-gauge-brighton-belle-engineering-prototype/)
OOpps someone beat me to it
The latest version of the Arnold Brighton Belle is on the Hornby stand at the Great Electric Train Show at Gaydon this weekend. The bodyshells are in green plastic now with glazing and interiors fitted including the table lamps. The motorisation appears to be a large central motor above the floor line with flywheels and cardan shafts to the bogies of the powered driving car. the motor assembly is visible through 3 bodyside windows but I suspect it will not be too obvious as there will be illuminated table lamps even in the driven car. To facilitate the use of only one DCC decoder power is transmitted between vehicles via a three pin connector/coupler which looks like it will provide close coupling, and might even couple up with the vehicles on the track - otherwise it will be time for 5 car snake wrestling like the Farish Voyager, or the Blue Pullman if using the bar couplers.
The one thing which jarred a bit was the wheelsets which appear to have "continental" flanges rather than RP25 etc. and at this stage are bright shiny metal.
This shows the female coupler
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/thumb_7444.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=7444)
This shows the male coupler
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/thumb_7445.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=7445)
A general view of two cars to show the table lamps and roof boards.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/thumb_7446.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=7446)
Quote from: woodbury22uk on October 12, 2013, 05:00:17 PM
The one thing which jarred a bit was the wheelsets which appear to have "continental" flanges rather than RP25 etc. and at this stage are bright shiny metal.
Yep, shame about those shiny wheels and the flanges do look a lot bigger than PR25 ones.
Not so sure about the bogie side-frames either. And are those dark patches above the wheels cut outs on the sole/bar?
I guess we'll have to wait for the finished model to check decoration and performance. Some of the window frames look like it will be printed on the glazing - especially the oval windows.
The roof boards look fine and separate fittings, but it would have been nice to see the other roof details.
H.
The pics look good! Illuminated table lamps? Cool! It is a shame about the sheet, though.
Quote from: H on October 13, 2013, 02:35:50 AM
The roof boards look fine and separate fittings, but it would have been nice to see the other roof details.
H.
Needs someone to take a yard of track and ask Simon Kohler to find space to put them up on his compact Hornby stand. The roof details can be seen in the body only photos here:-
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/73658-hornbyarnold-brighton-belle-price-and-delivery-date-confirmed/page-3#entry1188567 (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/73658-hornbyarnold-brighton-belle-price-and-delivery-date-confirmed/page-3#entry1188567)
and the original link at the top of this page.
I thought the B.B. Coaches were still in existence being used on the VSOE.
If this is right, then surely not having an NEM coupling housing so they can sell them separately (and make more money) is a strange move?
Quote from: DJM Dave on October 13, 2013, 10:03:30 AM
I thought the B.B. Coaches were still in existence being used on the VSOE.
If this is right, then surely not having an NEM coupling housing so they can sell them separately (and make more money) is a strange move?
They are still in use (or were..) I believe the intention is to turn them back into the Brighton Belle unit in the end.
I am surprised by the couplings but I guess its a trade off for the running power down the unit feature. Nothing Mr Hacksaw can't fix
Ah yes, of course only 1 decoder.
Kinda limits use though, however if the power is being transferred by this method, will the interior lighting be on the same circuit, I.e. It can be turned off under DCC?
I'd have done it with 2 decoders personally, with the wheels (RP25 obviously) on pin points to power the coach lights.
Looking at the wheels and the cut outs for bogie swing (which look horrendous) this will probably be the first time since Minitrix loco's looking like BR ones that UK outline has taken a retrograde step backwards in certain areas on new models.
I hope they put this right but as it's aimed towards their 'famous trains' section, I think they are more likely to stay to keep the Euro's happy.
The sole-bar cut-outs look cheap, nasty and odd - I don't recall other Continental/European made N gauge coaches with then - and can be fixed with plasticard inserts, but will mean re-painting the sole-bars as a minimum. Also the couplers can be replaced wit the Dapol NEM sockets but fortunately that'll only be for those who want the coaches separately and not as a BB.
H.
At least 3 ways to avoid the solebar cutouts.
1. Reduce the wheel diameter as per the Farish Deltic prototype;
2. Reduce the flange height, though that probably does not gain enough;
3. Increase the gap between the bogie and solebar, as per numerous locos and coaches.
I think I would prefer a combination of 1 and 2.
Worth making sure the feedback here gets to Hornby, who may not be NGF readers
They might only be there for very tight radius bends, so are not needed on layouts with more sensible and generous curves, meaning none of those three options are required.
H.
Quote from: H on October 14, 2013, 10:09:20 AM
They might only be there for very tight radius bends, so are not needed on layouts with more sensible and generous curves, meaning none of those three options are required.
H.
That would probably kill the economics of the whole project and I am sure Arnold will want it to take UK R1/Continental R2 curves like everything else they make.
Quote from: woodbury22uk on October 13, 2013, 09:16:46 AM
Quote from: H on October 13, 2013, 02:35:50 AM
The roof boards look fine and separate fittings, but it would have been nice to see the other roof details.
H.
Needs someone to take a yard of track and ask Simon Kohler to find space to put them up on his compact Hornby stand. The roof details can be seen in the body only photos here:-
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/73658-hornbyarnold-brighton-belle-price-and-delivery-date-confirmed/page-3#entry1188567 (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/73658-hornbyarnold-brighton-belle-price-and-delivery-date-confirmed/page-3#entry1188567)
and the original link at the top of this page.
This is what it looks like on the track all coupled up .....and running!
http://grahammuz.com/2013/10/14/next-pictures-arnold-hornby-n-gauge-brighton-belle-running-prototype/ (http://grahammuz.com/2013/10/14/next-pictures-arnold-hornby-n-gauge-brighton-belle-running-prototype/)
Quote from: woodbury22uk on October 14, 2013, 09:04:01 AM
At least 3 ways to avoid the solebar cutouts.
1. Reduce the wheel diameter as per the Farish Deltic prototype;
2. Reduce the flange height, though that probably does not gain enough;
3. Increase the gap between the bogie and solebar, as per numerous locos and coaches.
I think I would prefer a combination of 1 and 2.
Worth making sure the feedback here gets to Hornby, who may not be NGF readers
2 would stop it meeting the european NEM track standards I suspect. A lot of the finer UK wheels tend to derail on some continental track pieces (eg Fleischmann 3 ways) that assume NEM wheel specifications.
Quote from: woodbury22uk on October 14, 2013, 12:03:12 PM
That would probably kill the economics of the whole project and I am sure Arnold will want it to take UK R1/Continental R2 curves like everything else they make.
Eh? Of course not. No need to kill or effect the economics. It simple means that if you don't have such train set track radius you might not need the cut outs and can either fill then in, or that Hornby don't really need to include them. A simple snap out section in such circumstances would suffice.
H.
Quote from: H on October 14, 2013, 05:03:19 PM
Quote from: woodbury22uk on October 14, 2013, 12:03:12 PM
That would probably kill the economics of the whole project and I am sure Arnold will want it to take UK R1/Continental R2 curves like everything else they make.
Eh? Of course not. No need to kill or effect the economics. It simple means that if you don't have such train set track radius you might not need the cut outs and can either fill then in, or that Hornby don't really need to include them. A simple snap out section in such circumstances would suffice.
H.
Brilliant suggestion H.
Hornby seem very good at cutting their nose off despite their face of late. I realise full well that this is merely an EP, but if it is in any way representative of the finished product I have to say I'm glad the prototype doesn't hold any interest me. If it does lead to further UK models from them further down the line, it potentially sets a very disappointing precedent indeed; even Farish (Poole) didn't compromise in this way 30 years ago...they just produced comedy mini wheels instead...
Sadly pizza cutter wheels are the standard in the Arnold range, so they are likely to stay. But even so, I have never seen an Arnold coach with a cut away sole bar before and there are some models with the bogies well and truly up against the body with minimal clearance, and they perform perfectly well on tight curvature. Its a backwards step by their own standards, let alone current UK standards.
As an alternative, whats to stop them providing additional wheelsets to UK standards? In the same way Farish provide alternatives for a number of their models for those who can use closer to scale wheelsets (and Microtrains used to until they adopted the finer standard), and have the NEM pizza cutters marginally undersized to clear the solebars for those with trainset track.
Several European-based manufacturers still use 192mm (just under 8 inches) radius curved track including Arnold, Fleischmann and Minitrix, and even now, most stock are still engineered to be able to go round these curves.
These solebar cut-outs are probably a result of a combination of choosing to use full-sized diameter carriage wheels with NEM wheel profiles which have deeper flanges, and catering for 192mm radius curves, all of these factors together the wheels would have fouled the underframe if full-length solebars were fitted.
Wow, talk about some over the top hyperbole! The body mouldings look good (certainly better than Poole ever produced), the electrical continuity through the couplers is a nice idea and yet Hornby are accused of crimes against N gauge!
Sure, hopefully they can be convinced to reduce the wheel flanges and remove the need for the wheel cut outs but it is not the end of the world. Let's not forget that some of the other manufacturers have made relatively recent 'male chicken' (changed by forum)-ups with wheels...
That is not to excuse Hornby, but equally lets not blow things out of proportion. Take the opportunity to feedback to Hornby - the more of us that do so the more likely we are to get it changed for the better.
Cheers, Mike