Picture the scene if you will -
A train pulls into an N gauge station. It has DCC , there are lights in the carriages and passengers seated within. There is full sound and we hear brake squeal, station announcements, hiss of steam/diesel noises and the train moves off. The arrival and departure have been controlled by state of the art technology, the station buildings are lit as are the platforms. If it is a "modern era" layout there are colour light signals and probably working semaphore signals for earlier days. the whole panoply of modern technology has been used to create as realistic an image as possible................................
BUT......
glued to the platform are little figures who have not moved at all despite several trains having arrived and departed in the course of the running session.
Have members of the forum any thoughts on this? It seems to me to be one area where we are not able to sustain an impression of reality. I'm modelling a sleepy branch line in the 1950's where there were not many people anyway, hence their subsequent closure, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the matter.
Perhaps we have to separate the railway from the setting as this would also explain why the same bus is crossing the same bridge in a sort of time suspended dream. We might be wandering into the realms of philosophy or perhaps physics [time space continuum?]. This post is put up with tongue firmly in cheek but I'd love to have your views.
. . . and the weather is always constant - no rain or snow actually falling :D
I suppose you could have little people with magnets in their feet and a system under the platform to move them around :idea:
I think there is a layout that has a swimming pool with the swimmers moving
I'm having enough trouble starting the track laying without thinking about people :laugh3:
After the first paragraph I was in a different world, wow if only our models would come to life but I feel it would take a lot more work and lots of intelligence, I prefer the stillness of the scenery buy hey great thoughts and if you find a cheap way of doing all this let us all know on the forum.
Yes - this has troubled me (seriously), which is why my layouts don't tend to have stations (although Deansmoor has a small "halt").
Apart from not having a station at all, other ways round this are to have an overall roof, a station under an office block, just the tips of the platforms modelled (the rest off-stage) or at least the platforms masked by a substantial station building between the platform and the viewer.
The more general point about use of figures is not to have them running, playing tennis etc. position them leaning, sitting, or otherwise immobile. Vehicles can be stationary at traffic lights, parked or broken down - unless you use the Faller Car system or similar.
Cheers Jon :)
Quote from: Luke Piewalker on August 31, 2013, 09:42:48 PM
I suppose you could have little people with magnets in their feet and a system under the platform to move them around :idea:
That would be a sort of N gauge Subbeteo!
Quote from: Luke Piewalker on August 31, 2013, 09:42:48 PM
I suppose you could have little people with magnets in their feet and a system under the platform to move them around :idea:
Sounds too much like Weeping Angels :o
Quote from: Pengi on August 31, 2013, 09:44:03 PM
I think there is a layout that has a swimming pool with the swimmers moving
They were all called Bob :D
There have been some seriously good animations of sewage treatment plants and canal boats but I can't see any fairly simple way of getting N gauge people to move realistically :hmmm:
my very personal opinion is that when model is too much close with reality it's not a layout but a "napoletan presepio"...
so... as Only me said....: "not forget its only a model..."
Massimo
Quote from: Pengi on August 31, 2013, 09:42:29 PM
. . . and the weather is always constant - no rain or snow actually falling :D
That's not so much of a problem as most layouts are set in a mythical day which always seems to be in summer with the the sun shining. Many exhibition layouts set out to portray the traffic of a typical prototype day. there have been a few winter/autumn layouts over the years.
Every model is a cut down version of the real thing, be it a railway, miniature war game etc. We can never model a true railway in 1 to 1 scale, even if you had an aircraft hanger, it could only be a small part of the real thing. Motionless passengers, trees and grass that don't blow in the wind, we try to create a model as close the real thing as we see it.
You could always use one of those computer programs if you want the full moving 3d effects, but how boring watching a screen. I would sooner have long suffering passengers who never board a train and trees that never will feel the wind, rain or snow. It is something you can gaze upon and say 'I created that.'
Just my humble opinion.
I suppose you could have a crowd of commuters rushing up to the train doors and back round to the ticket office in a big circle, as if people coming off the train replaced those getting on
In my view the people, animals and traffic are only there to provide an impression of being "lived in", we don't normally stop and stare at a road, or platform, our gaze more often wander over a scene contiuously almost like taking a sequence of photos so motion doesn't always have to register except when one specifically follows a movement.
Not sure what to say this. I think people bring a railway to life, but if my model figures start moving I would freak out or get some less stronger glue :D
Hello cycletrak9,
I wonder whether ' ...the whole panoply of modern technology... ' is the problem - ie: What happened to imagination and playfulness? Ultimately aren't railway modellers just grown up kids just playing with a train set :)
For eg: " ... why the same bus is crossing the same bridge in a sort of time suspended dream ... "
I'd take the bus in my fingers and go 'ding ding Hold Tight Please!' and move it up the road a little :)
Likewise, when looking at my layout my eyes will focus on a particular building, or the front of a train in movement, or that train arriving at a station, or the layout as a whole - - and when I do any of those things my imagination comes into play, and my imagination can explain away any incongruity better than the most most deceitful politician or misleading newspaper reporter :)
Sorry, must dash, my psychiatrist is waiting!
Hi,
Have all the passengers sitting or standing still (as mentioned before) ie, not running, Get a dictaphone and make your own train announcement...
Ding, dong, ding...'Ladies and Gentleman, we regret to announce that due to an electrical fault the doors on this train won't open and therefore no one can embark or disembark. We strongly advise all passengers to have N gauge sandwiches as this will keep happening for the foreseeable future. Also, regrettably, the bus replacement service has broken down, the cows in that field just stand there not moving anyway as do the sheep and the border collie won't move until someone says Come By. Thankyou Ladies and Gentleman, I'm off to the funny farm'.
Train departs. Simples
weave :claphappy:
FWIW, In his book, Railway modelling the realistic way, Iain Rice suggests that you have all your people, dogs, cars etc at "rest". Thus don't have people queuing to get on the train or bus, but maybe sitting on the bench, waiting for the next train rather than the one just pulling in. Not totally realistic, but certainly does away with those "frozen" moments of people climbing stairs or running down the street. Cheers, Bill.
Ooh!!!! :idea:
How about a little person with one articulated leg, one moving magnet under the board drags the 'fixed' leg along, the articulated leg swings between a series of fixed magnets giving the illusion of walking! :hmmm:
After seveerial glasses of wine I see little people wandering all over my layout.... Trouble is I haven't bought any yet............ :laugh3:
Any one remember Micheal Benteen's Potty Time on TV many years ago.
He always did some sort of scene in a sandbox where you could see footprints appearing when characters were supposed to be walking.
Quote from: Luke Piewalker on September 01, 2013, 02:08:53 PM
Ooh!!!! :idea:
How about a little person with one articulated leg ...
How about something like this ... ?
http://youtu.be/ewfuFYavHP8 (http://youtu.be/ewfuFYavHP8)
This is HO - but just imagine it in N gauge (or have a couple of glasses of wine as per Jerry Howlett's prescription :) )
Perhaps the little people are trainspotters who have no intention of boarding the train. :D
Having viewed that I may GIVE UP DRINKING!!! Incredible.
Just showed this clip to Mrs "H" she was impressed until I told her it was "00" she then declared it cheaty!!!
How about a Tour de France version ....... :D
I remember in the dim and distant past (1950's ?) reading in at least one Model Rail Mag which showed you how to help passengers on the station move.
The examples that stick in my mind are:
1 - A man exiting the Booking Hall and going to the Gents
2 - A Porter leaving his position to flag off a train and then return to a station building.
I think both were achieved by having the figure mounted on a length of wire which operated thru a slot in the base of a buildings. The wire being fixed at one end to small turntable arrangement, so the figure returned to their start point automatically.
I stand to be corrected but I think it must have been "OO" and I cant remember if they were mechanised in any way but if so it must have by magnets (or clockwork).
Any one up for trying to do this is N?
Ray
It would need to be part of a circle, out of one door into another unless you could make then turn round, I did contemplate doing something with an old CD ejection mechanism that would give an "out and back" movement, but how do you get the figure to turn round?
Yes I am sure they completed a full circle
Ray
Thinking how to make something turn round when its direction is reversed, casters on furniture and supermarket trolleys etc swivel as they have an off centre pivot, maybe a porter pushing a trolley could work or a passenger with one of those wheeled cases. Horse and cart? :hmmm:
With my hypothetical single articulated leg man, you could have the moving magnet describe a circle around the end fixed magnet and the little man would pivot around his articulated leg which would then resume it's swinging from magnet to magnet motion back down the row of fixed magnets... :laugh2:
Quote from: Trev on September 01, 2013, 03:00:52 PM
Any one remember Micheal Benteen's Potty Time on TV many years ago.
He always did some sort of scene in a sandbox where you could see footprints appearing when characters were supposed to be walking.
and the springboard bending under the weight of the 'diver' :bounce:
they don't make TV like that any more, perhaps they should rather than some of the drivel thats on there now.
Quote from: class37025 on September 01, 2013, 09:20:53 PM
Quote from: Trev on September 01, 2013, 03:00:52 PM
Any one remember Micheal Benteen's Potty Time on TV many years ago.
He always did some sort of scene in a sandbox where you could see footprints appearing when characters were supposed to be walking.
and the springboard bending under the weight of the 'diver' :bounce:
they don't make TV like that any more, perhaps they should rather than some of the drivel thats on there now.
Was it Potty Time or It's a Square World?
got me thinking now :confused1:
I think it began on "Its a square world" and years later became potty time. Why do I remember stuff like this but forget where I put my car keys ?
Quote from: Jerry Howlett on September 01, 2013, 09:51:24 PM
I think it began on "Its a square world" and years later became potty time. Why do I remember stuff like this but forget where I put my car keys ?
Oh hec was that Michael Bentine.
Michael Bentine's Potty time (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqXiqiC5dS8#)
Lots of Michael Bentine clips on YouTube but I can't find any of the 'flea' ones :(
I couldn't find any too, but did find phil cool doing the aquaphibian sketch, forgot about that one.
Quote from: dodger112958 on August 31, 2013, 10:05:38 PM
I would sooner have long suffering passengers who never board a train.
Well, you are modelling BR so if I were you I'd just claim that it's prototypical. ;)
Quote from: Jerry Howlett on September 01, 2013, 09:51:24 PM
I think it began on "Its a square world" and years later became potty time. Why do I remember stuff like this but forget where I put my car keys ?
Likewise ;D ;D
Thanks for all the replies.
I raised the subject to see what the general feeling was and it seems to be that we should be restrained in the placing of figures and avoid too many "action" placings. I suppose that the situation will be governed by the nature of the layout.The sleepy country branch line will need fewer people than a busy city terminus. It's probable also that an exhibition layout can justify cameo groupings to give the spectators some focal points.
A layout without people would be unnatural [Midwich Cuckoos?] and all the classic layouts in all scales have been populated to a greater or lesser degree.
The 'North of England Line' layout features the classic Abbey Road album cover - John, Paul, George and Ringo crossing a zebra crossing in their town scene ;D
Quote from: cycletrak9 on September 03, 2013, 09:29:34 PM
A layout without people would be unnatural [Midwich Cuckoos?] and all the classic layouts in all scales have been populated to a greater or lesser degree.
You never visited Whatstandwell in the 1970s then.
There are lots of shots of Beeching era branch lines where the only way you know anyone is present is that the photographer must have been there.
Maybe I'm over thinking this... But there might be a way to incorporate the "Pepper's Ghost" illusion in certain circumstances.
The principle can be seen in this video of a lego display which I found on you tube. By using a sheet of glass reflecting a monitor you can superimpose graphics over a model.
There is no reason this couldn't be adapted to model railway use, although the circumstances you could use it in would be quite limited...
Lego Star Wars Special Effects (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Icq-J15VHXU#ws)