Seeing the NGS Membership Card topic on here got me thinking !
My local model train shop gives discount to anyone who is a "card carrying" member of a model train club or society and I'm sure other shops do the same. It's also a way to get the NGF name better known.
You've probably guessed what's coming next - would it be worthwhile having membership cards for this forum ?
Your thoughts and comments please and if this has been covered/suggested previously I apologise.
Cheers,
Rob.
That is one for the boss I think :D
However it would be easy enough to do and you could even have a passport style photograph on it if desired ;)
cheers John.
Hmm... Could be useful for ID when I'm asked for my age whilst buying alcohol ;)
...If only someone would ask me for my age when I buy alcohol :'(
Easy enough maybe but probably quite time-consuming to administer and update every year, plus there's the cost of cards and postage considering we don't pay any 'membership' fee ;)
Paul
could it not be a blank online card that we could download and print ourselves ?
only members could access the 'file' and you could then add a photo if you wanted.
just a thought
I would think a master that could be downloaded would be the way to go :thumbsup:
If it is given the go ahead ;)
cheers John.
Quote from: class37025 on August 23, 2013, 09:26:40 PM
could it not be a blank online card that we could download and print ourselves ?
only members could access the 'file' and you could then add a photo if you wanted.
just a thought
Nice idea for getting a bit of discount, but I fear we may end up with people joining just to get the "card".
Whilst I know that not all join in to the extent some of us do on the forum. What makes this a great place to join is the fact that people want to join in.
Quote from: Sprintex on August 23, 2013, 09:18:32 PM
Easy enough maybe but probably quite time-consuming to administer and update every year, plus there's the cost of cards and postage considering we don't pay any 'membership' fee ;)
Don't mind having a fee as if we do have cards, I think they should be "professionally" produced - ie not us downloading and printing individually.
It's the admin side that may cause the issue.
On the other side of the debate I can hardly close my wallet for blasted cards >:D how about a badge :thumbsup:
If there is sufficient interest in having a membership card/badge then we will assess what is feasible.
I agree that this forum should remain free access to all but, on the other hand I do not see what would be wrong with a membership fee for those amongst who would like to hold a membership card for the NGF.
A lot of us have joined the N Gauge Society, and the benefits it brings, so maybe there would benefits in having such a membership.
Obviously it comes down to cost and the administration, but on the plus side if through a membership it brings extra revenue for the site then I'm all for it.
Just my two penneth.
Ian
Tank sells mugs and NGF wagons so you can get one of those. Maybe we need some UK made T shirts ?
Hi all,
As many of you will be aware, we do have a shop that sells mugs and t-shirts etc. Annoyingly it's based in the USA and therefore postage is expensive. The reason I chose this is because my time is limited and Cafepress process the orders without having to get me involved.
Newportnobby has recently retired and has kindly volunteered to be our Merchandising Officer. Therefore, there will be some changes to products being made available in the UK already. First on the list are mugs, MPV kits, Class 456 cabs and 321 Cabs.
With the kind help of a member who contacted over the weekend I am currently looking at enamel pin badges.
At the moment I'm not sure about the idea of membership cards, and I certainly wouldn't take away the idea of the forum being free.
For the young at heart can we have rub on tattoos of the NGF logo? ;)
Quote from: EtchedPixels on August 25, 2013, 07:38:33 PM
Tank sells mugs and NGF wagons so you can get one of those. Maybe we need some UK made T shirts ?
I thought they where an endangered species, that to include anything made in the UK. Cheers john.
Quote from: upnick on August 27, 2013, 08:40:56 PM
Do you know the age for alcohol when being asked for ID ?
I've never known alcohol to be asked for ID, so its age remains a secret :D
Quote from: upnick on August 28, 2013, 10:25:36 AM
As the law stands it's no laughing matter, for the cashier serving alcohol if ID isnt provided proving the person is 25 or they believe them to be under 25 with no ID then the sale is declined or should be .. if not then the cashier can be fined £80 on the spot fine from their own pocket nothing to do with the business they work for & it the matter could go to court ......... the business could lose their licence to sell alcohol.
The cashier can also be disciplined by the business & lose their job, trading standards do carry out test purchases a colleague of mine was told by a customer they were from trading standards & he had passed fine for asking the person before them for ID as they were doing a test purchase.
I fully agree. Ridiculous laws are nothing to be laughed at. Instead we should be doing our best to encourage some good old fashioned common sense and less reliance on silly over-legislation and jobsworth mentality.
In the meantime, we might be straying :offtopicsign:
The ID one is a pain because so many places want "a driving licence". They then get uppity when you point out a) you don't have one and b) its for medical reasons (and by implicaton c) would you like to get clobbered for disability discrimination)
The trading standards test is also stupid. Plenty of dodgy bottle shops simply look the buyer in the eye and say "Tell me you are over 18".
The Trading Standards kiddies are not allowed to entrap them....
Doh...
Alan
Quote from: EtchedPixels on August 28, 2013, 11:36:02 PM
The ID one is a pain because so many places want "a driving licence". They then get uppity when you point out a) you don't have one and b) its for medical reasons (and by implicaton c) would you like to get clobbered for disability discrimination)
The trading standards test is also stupid. Plenty of dodgy bottle shops simply look the buyer in the eye and say "Tell me you are over 18".
The Trading Standards kiddies are not allowed to entrap them....
Doh...
Alan
I obviously dont know what i'm talking about i only have worked in retail for over 20 years i waste my time on here trying to be helpful & informative.
Oh i also dont have a driving licence there are other forms of ID acceptable ....... i wont go into them as it will fall on deaf ears !!
Is there any chance of getting back to the original topic instead of inane ramblings about ID cards and under age drinking !
I know other ID is acceptable but not all the counter kiddies do.
Otherwise I didn't think we were disagreeing ?
If there was ever to be such a thing as a membership card which could be used to gain a discount in your local modelling emporium, such a discount would have to be negotiated locally by members in that area and used frequently or the retailer concerned may not gain enough custom to warrant it.
Any thoughts of trying to gain a discount at the major on line retailers fall down on the basis of not being able to prove membership of the NGF without sending said membership card to them with each order.
If anyone has other ideas I would be pleased to hear (see) them providing it doesn't throw too much work at the Admin team :worried: :D
Quote from: Robmag on August 29, 2013, 08:24:15 AM
Is there any chance of getting back to the original topic instead of inane ramblings about ID cards and under age drinking !
I quite agree :offtopicsign:
Back to NGF membership cards please, any further postings otherwise will be deleted.
:thankyousign:
Paul
Try reading the original post !
Quote from: IanUK on August 25, 2013, 06:12:38 PM
I agree that this forum should remain free access to all but, on the other hand I do not see what would be wrong with a membership fee for those amongst who would like to hold a membership card for the NGF.
A lot of us have joined the N Gauge Society, and the benefits it brings, so maybe there would benefits in having such a membership.
Obviously it comes down to cost and the administration, but on the plus side if through a membership it brings extra revenue for the site then I'm all for it.
Just my two penneth.
Ian
I agree with you Ian but the trouble is each good idea carries such a back narrative as well. While I'm all in favour of membership cards - who prints them and who pays up front? What about the logistics of record-keeping, stationery, admin and postage costs etc? Someone always ends up doing a lot of extra unpaid work... and it's often the same people too.
I'd happily pay an annual membership fee of £5 to use NGF. Great - lots of dosh to enable NGF to be even better than it is - BUT - who holds the dosh - who opens a bank account for NGF memberships - who does the work involved - would the increased income push NGF into all the hassles of accounts, accountants, AGMs etc...not to mention the taxman.
And so it goes on. I suppose sometimes it's better to keep the status quo rather than open up the Pandora's box mentioned above. I've experienced at least one model railway group that ended up spending more time arguing about all the stuff above that talking about railways.
While I would pay to use NGF, and I would like a membership card - I do not want NGF to be deflected away from the superb job that is being done right now without either.
:NGF:
Interesting discussion.
Don't forget that you can contribute to NGF funds via the Make a Donation button at any time and as much or as little as you can afford.
Thanks for all the support!
Dave G
Please see my previous reply (#20)
What would be the benefit of having an NGF membership card is what we have to ask ourselves?
We, as Admin/Mods, cannot arrange national discounts and even if we did, it would be incumbent on the card holder to prove their membership by sending said card off with each order.
As KTM so eruditely put it, the actual administration would be a headache for (as far as I can see) very little benefit.
As DaveG says, if you would like to donate to the forum there is a method of doing so.
Another thought occurs - NGF enamel badges are only being sold to NGF members so just substitute badge for card and Robert's your mother's brother :)
Quote from: newportnobby on November 11, 2013, 12:04:04 PM
Please see my previous reply (#20)
What would be the benefit of having an NGF membership card is what we have to ask ourselves?
We, as Admin/Mods, cannot arrange national discounts and even if we did, it would be incumbent on the card holder to prove their membership by sending said card off with each order.
As KTM so eruditely put it, the actual administration would be a headache for (as far as I can see) very little benefit.
As DaveG says, if you would like to donate to the forum there is a method of doing so.
Another though occurs - NGF enamel badges are only being sold to NGF members so just substitute badge for card and Robert's your mother's brother :)
Agreed. and besides, I really like the way this forum and the people on it give freely in knowledge and support.
and it looks like enough people are supporting the forum as freely, so why fix something that is so perfect?
:NGF:
Gerard ;)
I would ask, what is the stance of the NGF with respect to the N Gauge Society (and, to a lesser degree the 2mm society and other N gauge clubs that may exist)?
In an ideal world I think it would be good if they were all joined up - N Gauge is a relatively minority interest, and there are obvious efficiencies available if they were one organisation.
This is why I wouldn't be in favour of forum membership cards and fees - it would risk starting up a competitor to the N gauge society.
Thoughts?
Jon :)
My personal opinion is that we can all co-exist without necessarily becoming an amorphous mass. Some of the NGS staff are also members of the NGF and vice versa, but although we have relatively the same agendas, we go about it in different ways. Not everyone in the world possesses a computerised piece of kit that allows them to see what we do in the NGF. As an active forum 'pimp' at shows etc I still find many folks in the (how can I put it kindly)...more mature* time of their life who love the hobby but hate computers.
We do, however, have some liaison between our 'societies' which, I am sure, benefits the vast majority of N gauge modellers.
Please do not hold back from any suggestions as to what you like/dislike about the forum as that way lies stagnation and we want to keep the freshness and family friendly ethos of the NGF.
* By mature I only mean physically and not mentally :)
I tried to work with the NGS a few years ago. They weren't interested at first - but we didn't have many members. :D Later I was promised that they'd talk about working together at the next committee meeting. I heard it a few times, and they were always a couple of months away. Their decision making is painfully slow! Never received any feedback.
All of these organisations are different, and run in different ways. I'm not interested in competing with the NGS, 2mm or anyone else, merely making somewhere central on the internet. I wanted a modern forum for us all to chat on that was instant, supported pictures, and was well moderated. Everything else has just grown with the help of everyone else which is fantastic!
There was talk of the NGS advertising on here, and possibly us advertising in the Journal again, but that was going to be spoken about in the next NGS committee meeting. Again, I'm not sure what has happened about that and I'd almost forgotten about it! :) It's a very slow way of running a group/society. I'm happy to work with all 'N' organisations, but I don't think anyone would want the way in which this forum is run to change? ???
[quote author=newportnobby link=topic=15933.msg174806#msg174806 date=
Another thought occurs - NGF enamel badges are only being sold to NGF members so just substitute badge for card and Robert's your mother's brother :)
[/quote]
The badge is an excellent idea and enables us to recognise other members at shows, the donation system allows those using the forum to contribute to the running costs and saves the burden of administration.
We seem to "rub along" pretty well with other N gauge groups all following our hobby in harmony and that's how I would like to see it continue :)
Quote from: MinZaPint on November 11, 2013, 12:58:41 PM
Quote from: newportnobby on November 11, 2013, 12:33:34 PM
Another thought occurs - NGF enamel badges are only being sold to NGF members so just substitute badge for card and Robert's your mother's brother :)
The badge is an excellent idea and enables us to recognise other members at shows, the donation system allows those using the forum to contribute to the running costs and saves the burden of administration.
We seem to "rub along" pretty well with other N gauge groups all following our hobby in harmony and that's how I would like to see it continue :)
Agreed.
Gerard.
'If it ain't broke,don't try to fix it'..................Simple... :NGF:...... :NGaugersRule:
I recognise the "slow committee" syndrome. A few years ago I was the secretary of a professional engineering body, and the whole thing was hamstrung by retired members who would roll up to the committee meetings and want to harp on about how things used to be done and how they should be done like that again (and incidentally, would never volunteer to do any work despite having all their days free!)
It seems to me a shame that people with initiative are not used productively by the society but have to branch out on their own. Another example would be H's efforts on his N'spirations mag which could in another world have been used to enhance the N Gauge journal rather than spawning an offshoot.
I guess a practical step might be for the NGS to endorse the NGF as the (UK) national forum for N gauge, and maybe for Committee members to use the NGF as one of the official communications channels. (I know that one or two people who are on the Committee do contribute to the forum already, but it is more their personal communication rather than an official one).
When I'm Prime Minister.........!!
Cheers Jon :)
I've watched this topic for a while. At first I thought what a good idea, but the more I thought about it the more problems I could see.
At the moment we are free to use, and if you can give then there is the donate button. But if we had a card some poor sod has to look after it and sort out any (and there would be) problems. Not a job I'd want :D
So my vote is stay as we are outside of the commercial world this way we can tell it like it is without the risk of upsetting any company that has gave us a discount (we wouldn't want to lose that would we).
My 2d
Quote from: PostModN66 on November 11, 2013, 02:17:09 PM
I guess a practical step might be for the NGS to endorse the NGF as the (UK) national forum for N gauge, and maybe for Committee members to use the NGS as one of the official communications channels. (I know that one or two people who are on the Committee do contribute to the forum already, but it is more their personal communication rather than an official one).
I like the idea of the NGF being endorsed as the NGS forum. It wouldn't be too hard to tie the two sites together more closely, and it's not like the NGS has a forum already (other than the letters page of the journal). The NGS could benefit by being able to click on a button or send a PM to request a construction thread or repair topic be submitted as an article for the journal, while the NGF would benefit from improved direct lines of communication.
No extra membership cards need be issued as a result, although it might encourage more people to join the NGS. :)
Quote from: PostModN66 on November 11, 2013, 02:17:09 PM
I recognise the "slow committee" syndrome.
Yep, the NGS is very slow, especially with regards to decision making. When I was on the NGS committee (many years ago now) the meetings dragged on all day. The committee, in general were (and I get the impression still are) very conservative (with a small 'c') and quite reluctant to change. They view suggestions with a degree of suspicion and often see them only as 'extra' (and unwelcome) work. Plus they are very risk adverse with regards to new ideas.
But the NGS has done a lot of good things and provides a range of worthwhile service for members - it's just that it is difficult to get them to accept and act on new ideas and suggestions (especially if changes are require to adopt them - for example on-line shop ordering, allowing PayPal payment for membership renewal, limited company incorporation, etc.). And some of the products/services are rather long in the tooth and could do with updating. I doubt it will be easy or quick to get any form of official liaison/recognition between the NGF and the NGS.
H.
I think Only Me has hit the nail on the head - what do we do about non-NGS members on NGF?
IIRC there are at least 3 (poss 4) NGS Committee members who post on here + 1 Vice President. Mostly we post in our personal capacity though occasionally in our NGS capacity.
From my personal point of view I don't see much benefit in the NGS duplicating the NGF.
Cheers, Mike
NGS Product Development Officer (and Committee member)
Quote from: Only Me on November 11, 2013, 02:52:46 PM
Ah, but then you cross the realms of can you affiliate a forum with the NGS if not all members of said forum are "Paying" members of the NGS.....
Answer = Probably NO..
I know you are predicting others' reactions rather than your own, but why not? Non-NGS members can view much of the NGS website already. I can only imagine that using the forum would increase the likelihood of joining as products, articles in the journal etc. are mentioned.
Cheers Jon :)
Quote from: red_death on November 11, 2013, 03:31:50 PM
I think Only Me has hit the nail on the head - what do we do about non-NGS members on NGF?
Not worry about it?! I doubt anyone will die as a result (or even lose money!) And if there is a problem, deal with it if it arises!
Now off to do a base jump then run naked through a lions cage! :goggleeyes: :goggleeyes:
Cheers Jon :) :)
I got the impression that Tank was pursuing mutually beneficial advertising - promoting each other through the others exclusive media (i.e. NGF ads in the NGS Journal and NGS ads on the NGF forum). That wouldn't be a problem for non-members as it is to encourage them to join the other organisation.
However, apart from the promotional aspects (and any specific joint projects) I can't see many other benefits/opportunities for liaison. Certainly things like selling each other's exclusive products would have tax implications regarding selling to non-members.
H.
Quote from: PostModN66 on November 11, 2013, 03:43:44 PM
Quote from: red_death on November 11, 2013, 03:31:50 PM
I think Only Me has hit the nail on the head - what do we do about non-NGS members on NGF?
Not worry about it?! I doubt anyone will die as a result (or even lose money!) And if there is a problem, deal with it if it arises!
Now off to do a base jump then run naked through a lions cage! :goggleeyes: :goggleeyes:
Cheers Jon :) :)
I don't know what's he wearing but it needs ironing :smiley-laughing: I'll get me coat
Quote from: KTM on November 11, 2013, 10:22:03 AM
Quote from: IanUK on August 25, 2013, 06:12:38 PM
I agree that this forum should remain free access to all but, on the other hand I do not see what would be wrong with a membership fee for those amongst who would like to hold a membership card for the NGF.
A lot of us have joined the N Gauge Society, and the benefits it brings, so maybe there would benefits in having such a membership.
Obviously it comes down to cost and the administration, but on the plus side if through a membership it brings extra revenue for the site then I'm all for it.
Just my two penneth.
Ian
I agree with you Ian but the trouble is each good idea carries such a back narrative as well. While I'm all in favour of membership cards - who prints them and who pays up front? What about the logistics of record-keeping, stationery, admin and postage costs etc? Someone always ends up doing a lot of extra unpaid work... and it's often the same people too.
I'd happily pay an annual membership fee of £5 to use NGF. Great - lots of dosh to enable NGF to be even better than it is - BUT - who holds the dosh - who opens a bank account for NGF memberships - who does the work involved - would the increased income push NGF into all the hassles of accounts, accountants, AGMs etc...not to mention the taxman.
And so it goes on. I suppose sometimes it's better to keep the status quo rather than open up the Pandora's box mentioned above. I've experienced at least one model railway group that ended up spending more time arguing about all the stuff above that talking about railways.
While I would pay to use NGF, and I would like a membership card - I do not want NGF to be deflected away from the superb job that is being done right now without either.
:NGF:
My friend, with regard to part of your sentence "open up the Pandora's box mentioned above" I cannot see what part of my posts relates to this. I felt my post was a balanced and more "sitting on the fence" than advocating all out membership.
My view remains that NGF is free access to all. I was not making a case for membership, but merely pointing out that if membership was offered then it would be an individuals choice to apply. I also pointed out that there could be potential cost and administration implications in running such a membership.
With regard to who holds the money or operates the business end etc. that's up to Tank, he holds the financial burden for this site of which we all enjoy, and he has to find the revenue to keep the software and the servers running.
As it pointed out in another thread the membership for this site has now approached 3000, so why doesn't the monthly donations reflect this? I have made several donations to the site.
This is just an if; If 100 of those members (excluding Tank and the Mods) chose to pay an annual membership fee of £10, that's £1000 of instant revenue to keep the lights on in here.
Instead of putting my two penneth in this time, I'm off to shove another Tenner in the pot.....have you?
Ian.
You misunderstand, the Pandora's Box I referred to was in my post not yours.
For Gauds sake.The forum works perfectly well as it is.
We don't need pieces of paper telling us we are a member. :no:
We don't need affiliation to other N Gauge groups.We all co exist quite well as we are
If members want to make donations to the forum that's great,if they don't...no problem.
If it got to a point were funds for the forum are low then like in the past, Chris will tell us and we will put our hands in our pockets.
Like i have already said,why change or try to fix something that works perfectly well as it is....?
There is no plans for membership cards as far as I am aware.
The donation scheme was introduced for those members who wished to help keep the forum going could do so.
Therefore this discussion has come to its end and the thread will be locked :locked:
John.