Bombardier cutting a lot of jobs in Derby works, looks like anyone modelling the Thameslink in the future will be running German Stock!
More here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-14019992
Thats the way kick our lads out on to the dole, what is up with our products, it stinks 100%.
This may or may not be related but I find it hard to believe that a fine railway system that ran locally made equipment can be completely wiped out as the one back home in Britain.
One of the things that made railways back home so good was because the equipment used was unique to the UK, now it seems just about everything that runs on rails is either manufactured by GE America/Canada or some far off Asian country, I think it makes railways less interesting and train lovers quite sad.
The same thing has happened in Australia where the railway companies are owned by foreign companies that source their equipment elsewhere which puts lots of staff onto unemployment benefits.
I just hope the people making these decisions look at the "big picture".
OK, so the German trains may be slightly better for the operator, they may even be cheaper for the taxpayer, but do these benefits really outweigh the disbenefits of creating an unemployment blackspot in Derby, and disabling our (albeit foreign owned) industry from competing in future?
If they've borne all this in mind, then fine. But I suspect they haven't.
....and more generally speaking:
What did the Germans do to enable DB to become so dominant, that the Brits didn't do for BR? - discuss. 2000 words, by lunchtime - go!
Buy from Bombadier, keep jobs in Britain. Sounds good doesn't it? But that's protectionism and you have to be very careful with that. Look up the Smoot-Hawley Tariff of 1930 to see what consequences it can have.
From what I gather the Bombardier bid was very close to the Siemens bid, but I bet some faceless government official didn't factor in the cost of putting more people on the dole. Bombardier had already stated that 1400 jobs would go before knowing the result of the bid, as other contracts came to an end. Siemens have stated that winning this contract will create 500 jobs in the UK (big deal). Sadly I couldn't find a link, but please Google "Daily Mail 2.7.11 Bombardier" and there is a very good article explaining the ins and outs of this dumb decision.
Quote from: poliss on July 05, 2011, 12:50:16 PM
Buy from Bombadier, keep jobs in Britain. Sounds good doesn't it? But that's protectionism and you have to be very careful with that. Look up the Smoot-Hawley Tariff of 1930 to see what consequences it can have.
Yeah, but it's OK for the Germans and French especially to source their railway stock from their own national manufacturers!
Two points, Bombardier is a Canadian Company, that just happens to have a works in the UK and I think it is also bad management to put all their eggs in the Thameslink contract basket.
So whilst it is convenient to blame the Germans the French the European Union rules or the government, the Bombardier management must take some of the blame.
Well none of you have passed the exam Tadpole set as all of your replies are clearly under 2000 words!
Now go and write 'I MUST DO BETTER!' 1000 times and hand it in by 9 a.m or you'll be in detention! :evil: :smiley-laughing: :evil: :smiley-laughing: :evil:
Seriously though, thats the way the U.K (I refuse to call it Great Britain as the 'Great' disappeared long ago...) and other countries are run now.
Keep your costs minimum and your profits maximum, thats the name of the game now.
Quality may still come in to question as no one wants to buy rubbish but people are just numbers on a balance sheet and are therefor expendable.
Its how the modern world is and is just something we have to get used to I'm afraid.
"Yeah, but it's OK for the Germans and French especially to source their railway stock from their own national manufacturers!"
No it isn't. Protectionism leads to lazy manufacturing practices. Manufacturers don't try to keep their costs and prices down because they have no need to. They don't have to worry about foreign competition.
Result, prices go up, consumers can't afford the goods, sales drop, factories close, unemployment rises.
In the worst case it can lead to a Depression, such as happened after the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930. Germany then had hyper-inflation and went bust leading to the election of you-know-who.
Sorry Poliss, but I was practising irony and obviously failed the test.
I still remember the Warship farce (different loading gauge to the Germans) along with the Blue Pullmans (Swedish bogies that gave a really rough ride). Of course, my memory may have even failed me on those points too. Doh!
That's the problem with forums, no tone of voice to detect irony etc. That's why smilies had to be invented. Shame that the text versions, such as <vbg> seem to have died out.
Moogle - if you only call it Great Britain then you leave me out, and I'd cry... :smiley-laughing:
Quote from: tadpole on July 05, 2011, 12:13:20 PM
....and more generally speaking:
What did the Germans do to enable DB to become so dominant, that the Brits didn't do for BR? - discuss. 2000 words, by lunchtime - go!
Believe in the long term, hire competent people - for the long term, build up expertise and value engineering and industrial skill sets not just "I've got an MBA" people (and I've got an MBA so I'm allowed to say that 8)). Oh and allow beer in meetings 8)
The other problem with doing it in the UK is that UK trains can be shipped to/from Germany easily, but German trains don't fit into the UK so until HS2 is real and someone is building trains next to it any UK base is crippled by being tied to a small very iffy market heavily influenced by this weeks government policy choice.
Quote from: lesmond on July 05, 2011, 07:53:48 PM
Moogle - if you only call it Great Britain then you leave me out, and I'd cry... :smiley-laughing:
Another good reason to stick with calling it the U.K! :)
Ah, but it's the UK of GB and NI, so you still left him out. :)
Quote from: poliss on July 05, 2011, 11:06:49 PM
Ah, but it's the UK of GB and NI, so you still left him out. :)
???
What about Wales and Scotland then?
I thought they were part of the U.K too?
Must admit though, Geography was never my strong point... :smiley-laughing:
What was this thread about? Oh yes, I remember. Stuff not being made here but in Germany.
Makes a change from made in China I suppose! ;D
England, Wales and Scotland comprise Great Britain. It's called Great Britain to distinguish it from the other one.
Might as well break up Great Britain, they broke EWS aka English Welsh & Scottish Railways which is now DB Schenker just does not have the same ring to it.
To go all Basil Fawlty - it makes you wonder who won the war :smiley-laughing:
Bombardier are a big employer in NI as well, they own what was Short Bros aircraft factory, and have a missile making plant not too far from my office.
I know a lovely story about "loyalist" paramilitaries who tried to steal one... :thumbsup:
Quote from: poliss on July 06, 2011, 12:24:16 AM
England, Wales and Scotland comprise Great Britain.
We're working on fixing that 8)
Here at Electra Towers, I have been burning the midnight oil creating a definitive artwork for the new Siemens-built Thameslink units and have a suggestion for the livery.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27017199@N07/5913206374/in/photostream (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27017199@N07/5913206374/in/photostream)
:)
Quote from: captainelectra on July 07, 2011, 08:04:55 PM
Here at Electra Towers, I have been burning the midnight oil creating a definitive artwork for the new Siemens-built Thameslink units and have a suggestion for the livery.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27017199@N07/5913206374/in/photostream (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27017199@N07/5913206374/in/photostream)
:)
Ah the new royal train ;)
Quote from: captainelectra on July 07, 2011, 08:04:55 PM
Here at Electra Towers, I have been burning the midnight oil creating a definitive artwork for the new Siemens-built Thameslink units and have a suggestion for the livery.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27017199@N07/5913206374/in/photostream (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27017199@N07/5913206374/in/photostream)
:)
Reckon Tank will be placing a bulk order to convert all his NSE stock :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing:
Quote from: Lawrence on July 07, 2011, 09:02:39 PM
Reckon Tank will be placing a bulk order to convert all his NSE stock :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing:
:o :o :o
It does look good, I have to say. If you put a Flak 88 sticking out of the front cab windows I may consider it..... ;)
I feel very sorry for all the employees who have or will be made redundant. Unfortunately this issue is not just the fault of this government, but is the fault of every government since the end of WW2. This country, the UK of GB (comprising of the four once greatest nations ever to have walked the Earth in equal measure) has been sold down the swanny river since 1945 by weak governments either Red, Blue or Yellow (not so much yellow though these days ;D).
What we have seen at Bombardier, is only a snap shot of what has happened to this nation on a regular basis over the last 65-70 years. This country emerged crippled and bankcrupt but victorious after WW2.
We had all the chances of re-building and starting over by re-investing in building and making our industry's strong thus selling power world wide second to non after WW2, instead the successive governments up till/including the present one have destroyed our manufacturing/industry, diluted our soverienty by giving all decisions to Brussels, blunted the capabilities of our armed forces, killed our national senses (seems a crime these days to fly the Union Flag), got us involved in wars which do not concern us and played up to and support the bankers who shafted the country and not forgetting members of parliment slapping the tax payers faces whenever they fancy claiming a few kit-kats and duck ponds (castle's, second homes, rent-boys, trips abroad, etc etc £££££££££££ ..........
List goes on. Hence no real shock that the only foreign owned sole rail manufacturing company left in Britain is canning jobs in the UK, why would they want to stay here when even this nations government seems hell bent on destroying what is left of the UK rail industry/that particular companies UK interests?
Cannot blame the Germans, they have done the right thing by making their country strong, green and competitable since 1945. After living in Germany for 3 years I would move there in a flash (if they would have me :smiley-laughing:) and with their sense of unity, direction, strength in manufacturing and downright sense of justified pride, dont point the finger of blame at Berlin, point it towards London Westminster and those failures/donkeys that we have voted for over the last 70 years, they are the ones to blame............Sadly Bombardier's tale seems the norm in the UK these days......And many more to come as long as Britain votes for Red/Blue Clowns who care not about the once proud and strong UK of Great Britain