This will probably set the cat amongst the pigeons but where do people stand with sound moduals?
My own opinion is they are awful blights to modeling and should all be put through the mincer i first came accross the in the model boat world and found so irritating a constant noise the sound of a single cylinder diesel coming from Titanic!!. I have recently heard them in model trains and find these equally annoying. This is only my opinion.
Dave
Hi, I'm very much in favour of sound for my home project, both locomotive and ambient - mine will be by way of under-baseboard speakers.
I'd be more hesitant to hear it 'no-holds-barred' at exhibitions however, if it becomes a cacophany that's too distracting then that could easily become a big turn-off - presumably some form of 'policing' might have to be introduced by organisers if it did start to get out of hand.
Regards, Gerry 8)
Im a bit of both. I don't have any N gauge sound fitted loco's but we do run a lot of G scale locos all with sound and after an hour or two the sound does become a bit grating (Bearing in mind this is out in the garden where a lot of the sound is lost in the neighbours ears it seems). It's a nice thing to have but it's also nice to be able to turn it off.
I don't have any sound fitted locos either, having seen and heard them at exhibitions they can be very effective but I would tire of them eventually.
As I run mainly US locos I could never stand the continuous clanging of that bell and sounding of the horns every five minutes, so I will content myself with the sound of silence ;)
cheers John.
I used to use OO and had three sound equipped class 25 diesels from Bachman on a layout about 3 m long. When I got the first I was so impressed and pleased that the next two followed in quick succession. The problem was, when two were idling and one moving, the sounds became mixed, more like muddled, so that you could not really appreciate any of them.
Of course this may be different if your passion is steam outline locomotives because there is a bigger difference in the sound between a moving loco compared to one just sitting doing nothing.
Again, if you have more space, the distance between the locomotives will prevent you getting a confused sound.
One of the reasons for switching to N was the possibility of using less space. Will I invest in sound for my N gauge layout, the answer is a definite NO ! not because sound is bad, its just that for a small layout, it doesn't work if the sounds are very similar.
Just my experience.
i have one sound fitted loco, a class 37.
i like sound. i like the start up / shut down sequence, i like the wheel flange squeeling and so on...
the sounds are repetative though, obviously, as they are just recordings....
i think sound is most effective when only one loco is running at a time, and slow, light engine movements are better, running with a full rake makes too much noise which drowns out the engine's noise.
i might get a sound fitted dmu or sound in a class 20 one day.
tim
On a small layout, and with appropriate use, sound appears to be very good
However, I have seen a layout with numerous locos and it just became white noise
Although, I think the sound level was set too high
You really shouldn't be able to hear a model locomotive when stood about 12 foot away from it
Equally, quite annoying when you are viewing another layout some distance away and the noise from the other layout can be heard
Sadly for N gauge the overall costs are too high for me to consider it, as yet
The majority of models have just been swapped over from DC chassis to DCC ready
I might consider in a few years time when it becomes more RTR friendly
However, the Dapol HST may be my first consideration
I have yet to look at the Dapol Class 156, but as I understand it at least one window has to be removed / blanked and that compromises the quality of the model itself
agree with that
On a small layout, and with appropriate use, sound appears to be very good
However, I have seen a layout with numerous locos and it just became white noise
Evening all,I have a Farish class 40 and 50 that are both sound fitted and done by me,I also have a Dapol HST with a sound decoder in the dummy power car and one in a Dapol mk3 coach which runs behind the power car.This one will soon have its sound decoder removed from the coach,reblown with Legomanbiffo's HST sound project to match the dummy power car and be reinstalled in the powered powercar.I also have a Dapol class 121 bubblecar and lastly,a Dapol class 156 sprinter dmu that are also sound equipped.
I love them.Sound adds an extra dimension that I only thought would be possible in oo and larger scales but as time moves on it became possible for sound in n to become viable.
Once I moved to dcc,it was only a matter of time before sound fitted loco's,dmu's and hst's would run on my layout.Although I agree that the sound quality is,at the moment,a bit hit and miss in n gauge models,I believe that eventually,speakers with much better sound quality will emerge and make the sounds more prototypical so the white noise previously mentioned will not be an issue.
So my opinion is sound every time.I think its only a matter of time before they become as good as oo gauge sound fitted loco's,after all,they sound pretty poor only a couple of years ago and now look or should that be listen to them.
Pete
:Class31: :Class37: :NGaugersRule:
Personally it does nothing for me, except pibrass me off at exhibitions where all i can hear are Type 2's/Type 4's ticking over on and on and on and...................
I've never yet heard a diesel horn on a model sound authentic either.
Same with a certain layout that has seagulls shrieking constantly.
Sorry - big turn off.
Rant over :D
Quote from: Pete Mc on March 20, 2013, 08:33:28 PM
This one will soon have its sound decoder removed from the coach,reblown with Legomanbiffo's HST sound project to match the dummy power car and be reinstalled in the powered powercar.I also have a Dapol class 121 bubblecar and lastly,a Dapol class 156 sprinter dmu that are also sound equipped.
:admiration:
Personally I'd have all my stock sound fitted if I had the money! First would have to be the HST though as Pete described above - always been my dream :heart2:
Like everything new I think sound has been hijacked by the "look at me aren't I great" brigade who insist on having every loco chucking out sound at max volume, much to the annoyance of those of us with more than three brain cells. Set up properly, and run at a sensible volume level, I think sound is one of the best things to happen to model railways as it's an important part of the realism that's been missing :thumbsup:
Paul
Have not gone down the DCC route even yet, despite having a lot of compatible stock.
The sound fitted loco's etc i have seen have been impressive but other than for home use, its pretty pointless at exhibitions as you can't hear them over the general noise or the OO layouts that have 10 plus loco's whistling/idling etc which does do your shell in if you are exhibiting for a couple of days!
Have seen some odd installations too, a well known producer of high quality repaints/detailed loco's had a lovely 24 on website, but the sound chip had some inappropriate sounds on the start up sequence which included an AWS/TPWS sound before the engine start up. For 600 plus notes you want it right really.
I don't know if this is rivet counting for sound but after 28 years on the footplate with the real thing, a lot of things do scream out WRONG with the sound chips so far in my experience. It just hasn't been good enough to inspire me to make the change yet.
To be honest, i would rather have a fixed system somehow using sound files to select for playback with analogue operation, which would probably give a better result with a surround sound type set up.
In the meantime, i will be doing my own sound effects (when no one is looking!!!!!!!!!!! :laugh3:)
Quote from: Sprintex on March 20, 2013, 09:28:13 PM
Like everything new I think sound has been hijacked by the "look at me aren't I great" brigade who insist on having every loco chucking out sound at max volume, much to the annoyance of those of us with more than three brain cells. Set up properly, and run at a sensible volume level, I think sound is one of the best things to happen to model railways as it's an important part of the realism that's been missing :thumbsup:
Paul
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Definitely the case on far to many layouts - it's almost about the sound not the Locos.
I have several Locos fitted with various sound chips and IMHO they add to the enjoyment but only when set to respectable levels. I do like to hear a loco (diesel or steam) firing up and accelerating away when I'm nearby, but don't expect to hear it from the far side of my layout. I certainly don't need bells and horns clanging like an early warning system.
:toot: Yes bells and horns possibly do get repetitive on a small layout, but I don't need to have these every time my loco passes a crossing etc. and I generally don't bother with coupling/uncoupling sounds - certainly don't try to be accurate with them in terms of timing.
The Surround Sound Style system seems to be the best to go, I am sure these will become more affordable, and there are some interesting small manual boards available as a start point for people to try. I am looking at ways of using some old "bingo announcement messaging system" I acquired from my days as a Mecca system maintenance engineer. iI its basic form it was just a push button panel that accessed sound files on a PC. Similar to a "jingle" unit that a DJ might use. (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-music010.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php) It's been an ongoing project for sometime that has never quite had the time devoted to it.
(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-think004.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)It is interesting though that I have found a lot of people although not into prototypical layouts still seem to want "accurate" sounds when the rest of the layout is anything but !
Each to his own though and this is an area where RULE 1 definitely applies.
At the moment, I'm not that bothered about sounds. I like the noise that the trains make sashaying round the track.
I think it's quite clever that the technology allows you to do it. But there is a sense of 'unrealism' about it. If you visit a real railway, a train comes into sight and you hear it, then it moves away, and the sight and sound fade... Even when you're watching movements in a yard, the sound isn't constant. Yet, with a model railway, the distance between you and the train doesn't change significantly enough to affect the sound volume - so you can always hear it, chugging away. That's (a) unrealistic and (b) annoying after a while.
That's why I prefer traiNs without sound.
Interesting view Phil :thumbsup:
I would guess it wouldn't be too hard to engineer in a Doppler effect as you dedcribed :hmmm: If you had the recording then surely you could have it activated by a function button.
So you have normal sound as it comes towards you, press the button as it passes you and the alternative sound file kicks in? Who knows about sound enough to give it a go then? :D
Paul
Nice idea, but not quite as easy as it sounds (Sorry) to apply as the increase/decrease in volumes would vary depending on approaching and disappearing speeds. Probably almost as bad as getting "chuff" speeds right.
To my mind, no one has done sound better than Chris (former owner of Old Warren TMD) who recorded real railway movements and then set them to train movements on the layout (or vice versa) such that full Doppler effects etc created a superb effect. A small sample here........
Old Warren TMD - N Gauge Layout Update - 15/09/2012 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdMKhHx_sDI#ws)
I was really excited about putting sound in my Class 43, (yeah, I know, it doesn't take a lot) and running it around my test oval at the speed of light is great fun and very effective.
However... It occured to me very quickly that while it would sound great idling away at the platform and the whine as it powers up to pull away over the level crossing, it would still be blasting out at full volume and fully audible once it had left the main scene and was supposed to be hidden in the fiddle yard.
There is an on/off command for the sound, but that is a literal on/off. It needs to be a fade in / fade out with a programmable fade time so that as it leaves the fiddle yard and approaches the station the sound fades up.
Do any sound chips have this function? Could we petition the manufacturers?
Digitrax can be made to do it although I don't think the standard programs do it. The Zimo I believe its CV 314 to get a fade. CT I don't think can fade just mute, ESU lets you set a choice of 3 volumes & mute on a function.
I believe the US Soundtraxx stuff can also do a fading mute.
Quote from: newportnobby on March 21, 2013, 01:16:23 PM
To my mind, no one has done sound better than Chris (former owner of Old Warren TMD) who recorded real railway movements and then set them to train movements on the layout (or vice versa) such that full Doppler effects etc created a superb effect. A small sample here........
The sound from these is quite magnificent and you really benefit from the doppler effect - it really sounds as though the train is going right past you.
How has he done this? My understanding is that you hear the doppler effect from the position in which you are watching/listening. How do you ensure that the sound from the DCC chip syncs with the usual viewing point on the layout? My DCC sound fitted locos vary the sound according to the throttle speed or to sounds eg a whistle or horn pre-programmed to a specific function key on the DCC controller. How has Chris managed to sync the sounds to the viewing point?
Hi Mike,
Chris is the best one to answer your question, but I do know he spends a lot of time making recordings at stations etc and then, I am just guessing here, maybe edits the recordings he has made and runs the N gauge layout trains to fit the sound :hmmm:
I'm not entirely sure. I have repeatedly asked Chris for a DVD of his clips as I think they are stunning, and if you have some spare time hop onto YouTube and look at some more :thumbsup:
I've managed to create a distance effect by having tunnels at both end of the layouts, you get a lovely new burst of sound as each train emerges out of the tunnel, the sound having been previously deadened by being in the tunnel, helps break the layout up audibly.
We seem to be confusing the issue here!
Chris has merely dubbed sound over video clips, which doesn't really have any relation to DCC sound in locos?
Interesting about the tunnels Caz and I can see how that would work :)
Paul
I doubt I will go the sound route for N ... various reasons : expense being the big one; space needs and the wiring up being another; and only having a small layout being a third ...
OTOH, I do have several sound-fitted locos in 'another scale' :-X. I do enjoy them, used properly, and try to limit the number in use at any one time. Too many and/or too loud is very off-putting, I find. I will be fitting sound into others, but on an as-&-when basis when I can spare the (horrendous level of) cash required.
Now ... if you can set up a system such that when you pass a certain location the sound decreases to a preset and vice versa, also sounding the whistles/horns at the right places, starting & shutting off sounds when you pull out / go into stations all without having to remember to press F3 here, quick now do an F5, swap to another loco & do an F3 on it ... ! :P
Loco noises. and whistles etc.
Found another source for prebuilt units - Manually and auto driven, but not DCC. Reasonable prices, for limited sound options I think
http://www.mrrails.com (http://www.mrrails.com)
Might suit some.