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General Category => N Gauge Discussion => Topic started by: Jonathan Clapp on June 09, 2011, 09:35:19 AM

Title: older Trix coach
Post by: Jonathan Clapp on June 09, 2011, 09:35:19 AM
I got this orphan in a large lot of mostly freight wagons and die cast busses and trucks (about which more later).

(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac147/Jonathan_Clapp/trixBRcoach2.jpg)

After about 6 hours of soaking in paint stripper and considerable scouring with tooth brush, removed many layers of brush paint, still some work to be done before starting over.

(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac147/Jonathan_Clapp/trixBRcoach1.jpg)

so what is it, a restaurant car perhaps?
how good a representation is it?
what time period, could it possibly be pre-nationalization?
if so what liveries might be appropriate?
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Dr Al on June 09, 2011, 11:54:14 AM
Quote from: Jonathan Clapp on June 09, 2011, 09:35:19 AM

so what is it, a restaurant car perhaps?
how good a representation is it?

It's a BR Mk1 brake coach.

It's a reasonable representation within limits, albeit pretty dated by todays standards with deep window recessed and small diameter wheels.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Tank on June 09, 2011, 04:22:08 PM
I ran these on my layout - before I sold it.  They are good runners on the track, but are made to European sizes, and so look small compared to modern Mk1 models.  Mine all got repainted into NSE colours, but I didn't get as far as numbering them.  I look forward to seeing what livery you choose!
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: michael on June 09, 2011, 06:25:33 PM
Ive got some these (std ones rather then the brake one) which Ive painted into WCRC livery. There the correct coaches for the livery, look pretty good and never had any running issues with them.
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Jonathan Clapp on June 09, 2011, 06:44:24 PM
Quote from: michael on June 09, 2011, 06:25:33 PM
Ive got some these (std ones rather then the brake one) which Ive painted into WCRC livery. There the correct coaches for the livery, look pretty good and never had any running issues with them.

that's very interesting, thanks for that.
two minutes of googling produces this prize
(http://www.railwayherald.com/images/photos/750/750175106.jpg)
link to the Railway Herald (http://www.railwayherald.com/imaging.centre/gallery/?gallery=RP&charterid=22569&rtnm=The%7CChristmas%7CFenman)

classic Crimson lake with black and gold lining, very appealing. are there decals commercially available?
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: EtchedPixels on June 09, 2011, 06:56:09 PM
WCRC decals I seem to remember are available from Precision Decals

(and slightly naughty Santa's helpers from some of the Japanese vendors including an elf in miniskirt bending over etc)
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: michael on June 09, 2011, 07:01:41 PM
yep,got mine from Precision labels.
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Lawrence on June 09, 2011, 07:18:17 PM
I could certainly remove a few coats from that one JC, toothbrush or otherwise  :-*
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: lesmond on June 09, 2011, 07:40:49 PM
Funny, I was just thinking that, Lawrence  :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing:
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: michael on June 09, 2011, 07:50:37 PM
my pics not as interesting to look at but...

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t262/mikebillabong/DSC_0009.jpg)
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: lesmond on June 09, 2011, 07:56:24 PM
That's a lovely job (the coach  ;D). Beautifully painted - well done
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: jonclox on June 09, 2011, 08:17:03 PM
Quote from: Lawrence on June 09, 2011, 07:18:17 PM
I could certainly remove a few coats from that one JC, toothbrush or otherwise  :-*
Quote from: lesmond on June 09, 2011, 07:40:49 PM
Funny, I was just thinking that, Lawrence  :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing:
>:( Behave you two  ::) ::)
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: lesmond on June 09, 2011, 08:23:22 PM
Won't be another peep out of me  ;D
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: jonclox on June 09, 2011, 08:37:32 PM
Quote from: lesmond on June 09, 2011, 08:23:22 PM
Won't be another peep out of me  ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Lawrence on June 09, 2011, 10:04:38 PM
Quote from: lesmond on June 09, 2011, 08:23:22 PM
Won't be another peep out of me  ;D

Nor me, but I cant wait for Christmas this year  :smiley-laughing:
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: lesmond on June 09, 2011, 10:10:45 PM
Ah Lawrence, you're a bad man.. could be a very interesting time if we ever meet in person  ;D ;D
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: matt-b on June 09, 2011, 10:30:05 PM
whos the girl in the santas outfit  ;) lol

:NGaugeForum:
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Jonathan Clapp on June 09, 2011, 11:14:51 PM
Quote from: michael on June 09, 2011, 07:50:37 PM
my pics not as interesting to look at but...

(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t262/mikebillabong/DSC_0009.jpg)

looks great ! I'll try to make mine that good.
what paint did you use?
and the roof - black or dark grey?

Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Jonathan Clapp on June 10, 2011, 05:05:17 AM
completed cleaning and applied a coast of medium gray acrylic primer.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac147/Jonathan_Clapp/trixBRcoachprimer2.jpg)

it looks pretty nice. Previous owner had painted the chassis dark green for some reason.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac147/Jonathan_Clapp/trixBRcoachprimer1.jpg)
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: michael on June 10, 2011, 07:12:30 AM
hi

the roof is a standard black. I painted most of the sides yellow,then put some 1mm masking tape down the side before spraying with a railmatch wcrc red.

I could understand the body being green(southern regoin) but the chassis! no idea, whatever you have done to it, it looks nicley weathered now, especially comparied to my shiny chassis!
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: lesmond on June 10, 2011, 08:43:59 AM
That looks like a different coach now, shows what a mess can be made with a coat of paint, as well as how much difference a bit (a lot) of care can make.

Don't know why anyone would paint the chassis green, though.
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Jonathan Clapp on June 11, 2011, 06:11:49 PM
ok, I'm still keen on that West Coast Rail crimson lake scheme, but I've just had another notion.
I'll admit I'm a bit infatuated with this NGF forum right now,  :beers:
so I might have to make this:
:Carriage: 
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: michael on June 11, 2011, 07:33:19 PM
if you look around hard enough, you will find minitrix coaches in those colours. probably cost a bit though as there quite hard to find now!
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: EtchedPixels on June 11, 2011, 07:54:31 PM
If you are looking at doing a custom decal for that anyway it might be easierto spray the coach cream and then make decals for the entire lower side and top band, as you can't print white with a normal printer but you can use clear decal sheet on a whiteish background to get the right result.
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Jonathan Clapp on June 11, 2011, 09:04:58 PM
Quote from: EtchedPixels on June 11, 2011, 07:54:31 PM
If you are looking at doing a custom decal for that anyway it might be easier to spray the coach cream and then make decals for the entire lower side and top band, as you can't print white with a normal printer but you can use clear decal sheet on a whiteish background to get the right result.


Ive never printed decals. but I have read that one can't print white.
so  -  like this?
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac147/Jonathan_Clapp/NGFdecal.jpg)
(not this, Ill make a better one)

but also
what this?
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac147/Jonathan_Clapp/NGFdecalq.jpg)

should I be attempting to match the colors in this GIF, or are there genuine colors I should purchase?

Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Jonathan Clapp on June 11, 2011, 09:11:36 PM
Quote from: michael on June 11, 2011, 07:33:19 PM
if you look around hard enough,
::)
what can be done over the interwebs, I assure you , I am doing .
So far, I found ezactly one,  in blue and cream, in Australia,  that has already been bid up over $15 - WTF?

I am no longer hoping to make a formation of these -  just a tricky novelty piece out of this one.
If I ever want Mk I coaching stock,  Ill buy new Farish ones.


Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: michael on June 11, 2011, 09:22:42 PM
just consulting my home made bible on all things model railway and as for the colours for crimson cream livery you want the following,

crimson: - Phoenix P116 coach crimson (gloss)

cream: - Phoenix P117 Coach cream (gloss)

roof: - Phoenix P131 BR Roof grey

number decels :- HMRS sheet 14

this is taken from "model rail" magazine so the decel sheet is probably for oo gauge. Model rail sadly has habit of ignoring n gauge modellers!
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: EtchedPixels on June 11, 2011, 09:52:36 PM
Quote from: Jonathan Clapp on June 11, 2011, 09:04:58 PM
Quote from: EtchedPixels on June 11, 2011, 07:54:31 PM
If you are looking at doing a custom decal for that anyway it might be easier to spray the coach cream and then make decals for the entire lower side and top band, as you can't print white with a normal printer but you can use clear decal sheet on a whiteish background to get the right result.


Ive never printed decals. but I have read that one can't print white.
so  -  like this?
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac147/Jonathan_Clapp/NGFdecal.jpg)
(not this, Ill make a better one)

but also
what this?
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac147/Jonathan_Clapp/NGFdecalq.jpg)

should I be attempting to match the colors in this GIF, or are there genuine colors I should purchase?



I was thinking print a decal for the entire lower part of the side to go over the cream or creamish colour for the rest rather than try and match it up.
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Jonathan Clapp on June 11, 2011, 10:04:17 PM
Quote from: EtchedPixels on June 11, 2011, 09:52:36 PM
Quote from: Jonathan Clapp on June 11, 2011, 09:04:58 PM
Quote from: EtchedPixels on June 11, 2011, 07:54:31 PM
If you are looking at doing a custom decal for that anyway it might be easier to spray the coach cream and then make decals for the entire lower side and top band, as you can't print white with a normal printer but you can use clear decal sheet on a whiteish background to get the right result.


Ive never printed decals. but I have read that one can't print white.
so  -  like this?
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac147/Jonathan_Clapp/NGFdecal.jpg)
(not this, Ill make a better one)

but also
what this?
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac147/Jonathan_Clapp/NGFdecalq.jpg)

should I be attempting to match the colors in this GIF, or are there genuine colors I should purchase?



I was thinking print a decal for the entire lower part of the side to go over the cream or creamish colour for the rest rather than try and match it up.


yes , I understand,  that's how I tried to render it,  a red stripe the full length of the car with the lettering in white,
the white will actually print as transparent, is that right? so that if I have painted the lower half white,or 'coach cream' that will show through the letters?





Ill look into the Phoenix colors, thx Michael.
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: michael on June 11, 2011, 10:07:28 PM
no probs mate.

As described above, your best bet is to paint the lower half white and do one big red transfer for the bottom with transparent letters. The letters will be so small that you may get away with just painting the whole thing coach cream and having the letters as cream.
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Tank on June 11, 2011, 10:22:25 PM
That's great that you want to make a model of one of the graphics. :thumbsup:  I'd suggest Electra Railway Graphics for producing the lower part of the carriage, and painting the rest of it yourself.
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Jonathan Clapp on June 12, 2011, 11:06:20 AM
Wikipedia has this nice picture.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/Mk1_coaches_on_the_MNR.jpg/800px-Mk1_coaches_on_the_MNR.jpg)
the lining between the crimson and cream almost demands a custom decal.
I can do decent lines with trim film but that looks quite challenging.
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: michael on June 12, 2011, 08:41:13 PM
as if by magic

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MINITRIX-N-Gauge-BR-MK1-Brake-Composite-Coach-/200616656898?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item2eb5af4002
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Jonathan Clapp on June 12, 2011, 09:35:45 PM
Quote from: michael on June 12, 2011, 08:41:13 PM
as if by magic

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MINITRIX-N-Gauge-BR-MK1-Brake-Composite-Coach-/200616656898?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item2eb5af4002

£10.25 and rising...already too rich for me.  :-[

and heres  blue ones in the box for £16.50 each plus shipping.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MINITRIX-13006-N-SCALE-BR-BLUE-GREY-MK-1-BRAKE-COACH-/370487667231

I got my undecorated one for less than $1 ...
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: michael on June 12, 2011, 10:06:53 PM
yeah, they all got a bit too expensive in the end.
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Jonathan Clapp on June 14, 2011, 02:33:52 PM
I'm fairly pleased with this -
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac147/Jonathan_Clapp/ngfdecal-1.jpg)

Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Tank on June 14, 2011, 08:00:21 PM
Looking good!
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: michael on June 14, 2011, 08:09:08 PM
yeah looks spot on mate
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Jonathan Clapp on June 14, 2011, 09:40:48 PM
Thanks for the encouragement.
researching the colors, I was amused to learn that this is known as the 'blood and custard' livery.  ;D

The Phoenix paints are obviously a very high quality and accurate line of railway paints.
they are also acetone based enamels. Im afraid Ive had my lifetime's exposure limit to that stuff, modern ventilation notwithstanding, so Id like ask opinions of Railmatch acrylic paints, as they have a full line including 'BR coach custard'
also found this vendor - anyone know them?
http://www.howesmodels.co.uk/Railways/viewProducts.php?SubCatID=12
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: EtchedPixels on June 14, 2011, 11:49:04 PM
Quote from: Jonathan Clapp on June 14, 2011, 09:40:48 PM
Id like ask opinions of Railmatch acrylic paints, as they have a full line including 'BR coach custard'
also found this vendor - anyone know them?
http://www.howesmodels.co.uk/Railways/viewProducts.php?SubCatID=12

I find them a bit variable. Most are good but a few don't cover well especially the dark reds. Not tried C&C as it really falls out of my eras of interest. I did find I needed to invest in a pot of artists acrylic thinners (useful tip from the 2mm SA list) to get the smoothest results. Never tried spraying them (not an airbrush user) but I know professionals who use them with airbrush.

Best bit is they dry fast, don't honk and you can clean brushes with water and a spot of soap.

Bad bit is they sometimes dry too fast (hence thinners), show brush marks more if not thinned carefully, and if you don't clean the brush properly you'll never get the stuff back off.
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: poliss on June 15, 2011, 04:35:50 PM
You may find subtle variations in the Crimson and Cream livery depending on which region the coach was painted. Blood & custard might be seen as plum & spilt milk.
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Jonathan Clapp on June 15, 2011, 05:22:48 PM
I like the term 'spilt milk' .
In the wikipedia photo, you can see the white oxidation film on the red so familiar to owners of Ford cars or a certain age, I might attempt to simulate that.

Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: EtchedPixels on June 15, 2011, 08:31:14 PM
Quote from: Jonathan Clapp on June 15, 2011, 05:22:48 PM
I like the term 'spilt milk' .

It can be a dangerous description in some ways because the colour of spilt milk today and historically varies because processes have varied. This causes much grief when people start arguing about historical descriptions of some coach colours and milk at the time was not processed the same way !
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: SymonC on June 15, 2011, 08:34:29 PM
Quote from: EtchedPixels on June 15, 2011, 08:31:14 PM
Quote from: Jonathan Clapp on June 15, 2011, 05:22:48 PM
I like the term 'spilt milk' .

It can be a dangerous description in some ways because the colour of spilt milk today and historically varies because processes have varied. This causes much grief when people start arguing about historical descriptions of some coach colours and milk at the time was not processed the same way !


I suppose the same could be said of custard and indeed blood! ;D
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Jonathan Clapp on June 18, 2011, 05:26:43 AM
Got the spilt milk (varient: spoilt milk) on this evening, and a nice gloss for water slide decals.
the primer gray looks fine as BR coach roof gray. The ends, chassis and bogies will get a coat of "grimey black"

got the decal design finished and printed a sheet of them, only to have the printer run out of color ink in the middle of the page.  >:( ruined a $3 sheet of decal paper.
that all for tonight. hope to have the finished carriage tomorro night about this time.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac147/Jonathan_Clapp/coachcream1.jpg)

(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac147/Jonathan_Clapp/coachcream2.jpg)
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: EtchedPixels on June 18, 2011, 10:33:35 AM
Quote from: Jonathan Clapp on June 18, 2011, 05:26:43 AM
Got the spilt milk (varient: spoilt milk) on this evening, and a nice gloss for water slide decals.
the primer gray looks fine as BR coach roof gray. The ends, chassis and bogies will get a coat of "grimey black"

got the decal design finished and printed a sheet of them, only to have the printer run out of color ink in the middle of the page.  >:( ruined a $3 sheet of decal paper.
that all for tonight. hope to have the finished carriage tomorro night about this time.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac147/Jonathan_Clapp/coachcream1.jpg)

(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac147/Jonathan_Clapp/coachcream2.jpg)


Most decal paper for inkjet at least will go through several times !
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Jonathan Clapp on June 19, 2011, 06:10:29 AM
so this is my first experience with ink-jet printed decals , and I learned alot.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac147/Jonathan_Clapp/ngfdecaloncar.jpg)
only one side done, dont know now when Ill get a chance to do the other side.

The printer is a Canon MX310 all-in-one, decent consumer electronics grade, I guess.
the paper I have is by Testors. They recommend their own spray fixitive, but I used the Microscale brush-on "decal film", which worked reasonably well. The film did not behave the way I am used to Microscale decals behaving. Even after 5 minutes in the water the film did not "slide" off, but had to be pulled off.  on the plus side it did not curl up at all but lay down straight and true.  once the decal was in place I started working in the bubbles around the details with Microscale solva-set, the film was slow to react I guess its kind of thick and rubbery, and unfortunately the ink thinned and moved around a little when the film finally did stretch and fit down around the hinges and door outlines.
It also shrank back a bit around the edges. Ill have to go back with a thin strip to patch the bottom edge. I havent clear-coated this yet, so I might take it off and try again.  I think I will get sheet of Microscale white film before going on.

Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Tank on June 19, 2011, 09:11:22 AM
Looking good JC!  Sounds like you're hving fun.  :)
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: michael on June 19, 2011, 09:13:26 AM
excellent, a very good likness!

:Carriage:
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Jonathan Clapp on July 30, 2011, 08:34:19 PM
I paid five bucks for another unknown in a ludicrous Pennsy paint scheme,  it's a Mk I diner, (is is a diner?) now I have two Mk I vehicles, will go into the stripper bath shortly. I have some better Microscale decal paper to print out the crimson NGS forum crimson and cream sides on, so I will soon have a whole train of this stock.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac147/Jonathan_Clapp/limawat06.jpg)
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: BernardTPM on July 30, 2011, 09:37:52 PM
A Lima BR Mk.1 CK. In real life those two coaches (Lima CK and Minitrix BCK) would be the same length, showing how Lima used 1:160 scale for the coaches, though they made them too wide, probably to help hide the overwidth bogies.
By one of those 'happy' coincidences they did the Mk.1 BG to the same length. In real life these were built on the shorter (57') underframes (like some of the Mk.1 suburbans). As the Lima Mk.1s are about the same width as 'proper' British N coaches this made the BG almost scale. Certainly they made a handy addition to parcels trains before the Farish BG came out, though I didn't use them right next to Farish Mk.1s in the passenger trains as the profiles didn't really match. It was a bit like the case with the old Hornby Dublo and Tri-ang Mk.1 BGs in 00, especially as Minitrix made an overlength BG too!
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Jonathan Clapp on July 30, 2011, 11:40:15 PM
'short' and 'wide' almost always apply to LIMA N models.
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Jonathan Clapp on August 31, 2011, 08:44:49 PM
my Trix Mk.I is now joined by three Lima vehicles which Ive gotten to the point of applying the red panels.
I mixed the custard is a tad yellower on these.
(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac147/Jonathan_Clapp/mkIs1.jpg)


This train has an engine as well. An old and rather battle scarred Black 5. Ill be looking for advise in restoring that once the coaches are done.

(http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac147/Jonathan_Clapp/mkIs3.jpg)

Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Tank on August 31, 2011, 08:57:50 PM
Looks good to me!  :)  :Carriage:
Title: Re: older Trix coach
Post by: Newportnobby on August 31, 2011, 09:37:23 PM
Nice work, Jonathan :thumbsup: