After the success of my last 2 trips in the UK I have come back once again for advice regarding my next trip! This year I plan to travel a bit further afield and spend some time in other European countries.
As I am approaching my 1st years service working for a TOC I can get access to discounted rail travel in Europe and plan to make good use of this :thumbsup:! My first trip is going to be a simple one, I've wanted to visit Belgium for a while and decided its about time I went. The other trips I have planned this year are to Italy, Germany and France.
I plan to go in March, looking at traveling out by Eurostar to Brussels on the 20th in the afternoon and then coming back on the 26th in the evening giving me 6 days in the country. Staying in Brussels for the whole trip I can easily access most if not all of the country by train. So far I plan to spend a couple of days seeing Brussels and taking trips to Antwerp and Bruges. Is there anywhere else that is worth a gander? This will be my first ever trip to Europe apart from regular trips to stay with a friend in Gibraltar. Again, I have visited various websites and have a few places I want to visit but wanted to call on the experiences of anyone who has visited the country or even lives there!
I want to see what a bit of what the country has to offer! I get the idea that Beer and Chocolate are quite popular over there so I'm sure we'll get along just fine :beers:
Ghent /Gand well worth a visit, mediaeval sites etc. Belgium
a compact country with good rail network so easy to get about.
Enjoy!
Numerous beers for you to test... :beers:
Brugge is a nice day out. Climb the tower, visit the museum.
As well as beer and chocolates, give the waffles a try. My favourites are not the expensive cafe ones but the ones you get in packs in the local shops and bakeries. They are full and crystalised sugar and are chewy and crunchy! They are the real deal! :drool:
Hi,
Haven't been for ages but remember Ypres being lovely and quite moving. Don't know if they still do it but the fire brigade (I think, was a long time ago) play the last post near the main square every night in rememberance of WW1.
On a lighter note, the bestest chips (with moules).
For trains, obviously Brussels, Antwerp and Bruges would be great but I liked Ostend harbour. Prob all changed now.
Have a great trip and be careful of some of their beers, stronger than wine!! :beers:
Cheers Weave
You can't go to Brussels / Belgium without going to the Atomium - http://atomium.be/ (http://atomium.be/) - a building / sculpture of an atom. Catch the train from Brussels and get ready for your jaw to drop when you first see it!
Also, try some of the bars in Brussels as many of them have their own micro-breweries (one we went to had a couple of 2 storey copper vats in the back of the bar, with tables tucked in around the pipe work! Fantastic!) and the beer is truly great.... Expensive (€9 a glass :confused1:) but worth it!
this looks good but probably not open in march...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoomcentrum_Maldegem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoomcentrum_Maldegem)
also...
http://www.brusselsmuseums.be/en/museum/69-museum-of-belgian-railways (http://www.brusselsmuseums.be/en/museum/69-museum-of-belgian-railways)
or if you like freight trains, plenty to see near antwerp docks??? plenty of locos from france, belgium, germany, private operators etc...
e.g.
2904 Antwerpen Berchem 20 April 2012.MP4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0CYFPnK7lg#ws)
tim
First thing I learnt was to say "Keine Mayonnaise" otherwise you get your frites with a dollop and IMHO chips and mayo do not go together :sick:
Hi. I live in Belgium and reckon you can't go wrong with the big cities of Antwerp, Gent and Bruges. I live near Leuven and, whilst it's small, it's definitely worth a visit - as a you travel in on the train you can see the delights of the Stella Artois brewery but it's the City Hall and old market squares that are really worth seeing. Would also recommend the coast and Ostend is probably easiest place to get to. There is also a tram that runs the whole length of the coast so other parts are easy to access from there. Being biased I'll say all the nicer places are in Flanders but might be worth a trip to Wallonia to see how the other half live - I've been to Namur and that's nice and I understand that Liege is quite nice too. Spa is also quite accessible from Liege and gives a taste of the Ardennes, so if you like countryside this is an option.
If you are travelling a lot by train (I guess you will) you can get a 10-trip ticket for €76 meaning each journey, regardless of length, will only be €7.60. Although, other fares won't be expensive: Brussels-Gent/Anwterp will probably be less than €10 each way and a longer one like Brussels-Ostend getting on for €15. No restrictions on times either - you will delighted to see how a railway should be run!
As for beer, you won't be dissappointed (a bit hungover maybe) as there's lots to choose from. Of the more common ones you have to try Orval, Westmalle Tripel and Duvel, but you'll also find lots of smaller ones that are worth tasting too. Even the Stella tastes nicer here and, as that is the weakest beer you'll find, you might find yourself having one of these after a few too many tripels!
Good luck and enjoy Belgium!
The frites are a necessary experience and some of the chocolate, although I find you can get very nice chocolate in the newsagents in Belgium and ignore a lot of the fancy overpriced stuff - its all better than Dairly Milk! I found lots of good food - and very distinct styles - the Flemish style being my preference.
If you are in Brussels for long enough then the museum of modern art is worth a visit but budget a day as its quite large. There's a museum of more traditional art too.
Quote from: newportnobby on January 18, 2013, 09:25:50 PM
First thing I learnt was to say "Keine Mayonnaise" otherwise you get your frites with a dollop and IMHO chips and mayo do not go together :sick:
It's actually 'geen mayonnaise' (pronunciation of the g is a bit like a spanish j and the 'een' to rhyme with 'ain') in a flemish chippy if you want to stay mayonnaise free - they don't have vinegar either - strange people. :( The good thing about the flemish part is that everyone will speak English, even in the smallest shop. But don't try speaking French to them (in Brussels it's OK) because it annoys them big time.
Thanks for the correction, Brooksy :-[
It was over 30 years since I was in Belgium - looks like I have mixed some German in there :oopssign:
Quote from: weave on January 18, 2013, 08:58:59 PM
Hi,
Haven't been for ages but remember Ypres being lovely and quite moving. Don't know if they still do it but the fire brigade (I think, was a long time ago) play the last post near the main square every night in rememberance of WW1.
On a lighter note, the bestest chips (with moules).
For trains, obviously Brussels, Antwerp and Bruges would be great but I liked Ostend harbour. Prob all changed now.
Have a great trip and be careful of some of their beers, stronger than wine!! :beers:
Cheers Weave
Went to Ypres in October on the way back from Waterloo, the ceremony at the Menin Gate takes place every evening, last post played by the local fire brigade with one of the sevices providing the honour guard, RAF cadets when we were there, a very moving occaision.
Moules frites is not to be missed, (if you like them of course!) largest and tastiest I've had. Beer is excellent and so much better than the brewed under licence offerings we get here.
If you take the tram at Ostend you'll find a good Model Train shop and exhibition in the main station at Blankenburg.
Have a good trip
Quote from: Karhedron on January 18, 2013, 08:51:19 PM
Brugge is a nice day out. Climb the tower, visit the museum.
As well as beer ....
Reminds me of the in brugge everytime haha.
Brugge is brilliant though, went last year and was spectacular to walk around, people were friendly and some great little pubs.
Quote from: Brooksy on January 18, 2013, 10:07:48 PM
Quote from: newportnobby on January 18, 2013, 09:25:50 PM
First thing I learnt was to say "Keine Mayonnaise" otherwise you get your frites with a dollop and IMHO chips and mayo do not go together :sick:
The good thing about the flemish part is that everyone will speak English, even in the smallest shop. But don't try speaking French to them (in Brussels it's OK) because it annoys them big time.
Lovely people great Beer and the place where I learned that Chips and Mayo are divine buddies...
As for the french speaking so true. In the mid 70's my girlfriend was working for a french family as a bi-lingual Old pear.... I used to ask railway staff at Antwerp a question in english. Would they mind speaking to her in French ???
Still the biggest difference is unlike their next door southern neighbours they LIKE US... :claphappy:
Thank for all the suggestions so far, I'll be taking trips to Bruges, Antwerp and Gent for sure. I'm also tempted by the trip along the coast that has been suggested but will have to look into this further.
Looks like I might have to pace myself with the beers and bring a few back with me for further sampling :beers: :angel:.
Quote from: Brooksy on January 18, 2013, 09:52:25 PM
If you are travelling a lot by train (I guess you will) you can get a 10-trip ticket for €76 meaning each journey, regardless of length, will only be €7.60. Although, other fares won't be expensive: Brussels-Gent/Anwterp will probably be less than €10 each way and a longer one like Brussels-Ostend getting on for €15. No restrictions on times either - you will delighted to see how a railway should be run!
I will be traveling around the country by train aswell as using Eurostar to get there. I'll be using some free travel coupon thingys I can get from ATOC, which covers all the journeys I need to make. Basically it's a rover ticket that is valid on any SNCB or NMBS service.
Quote from: Brooksy on January 18, 2013, 10:07:48 PM
The good thing about the flemish part is that everyone will speak English, even in the smallest shop. But don't try speaking French to them (in Brussels it's OK) because it annoys them big time.
As I understand, Dutch is main language in the places I will be visiting with French spoken in the southern parts of the country. I'll still try and speak a little Dutch, even if its just used to greet people :). Alot of people have said how people speak very good english and are welcoming and friendly.
Hi Brooksy, do you know of many model shops in Belgium that stock N Scale and are worth a visit?
Cookies: Two things, watch the film 'in Brugges' before you go, its a classic ;)
Secondly enjoy yourself and bring back many pictures of your rail journies.
All the best :NGaugersRule:
I have more experience of Wallonie than Vlaams, but one thing you can do without embarrassment in Mons, and probably most other Walloon cities, is eat horsemeat. Accompanied by the aforementioned frites and washed down with the also aforementioned excellent local beer, a horse steak a true Belgian experience. (something in between beef and venison? And not as good as either, to be honest).
Belgium is probably the the european country that is most like Britain, architecturally and railway wise. Thirty years ago when i last spent serious amounts of time in belgium, SNCB/NMBS was like BR's SR with AC instead of DC, elderly green emus with yellow fronts, a bit more variety, alot more freight, and a bigger loading gauge. It's alot more colourful now.
Quote from: cookiescrumble on January 19, 2013, 06:28:08 PM
As I understand, Dutch is main language in the places I will be visiting with French spoken in the southern parts of the country. I'll still try and speak a little Dutch, even if its just used to greet people :). Alot of people have said how people speak very good english and are welcoming and friendly.
Indeed - in the north they speak Dutch but Brussels, although officially bilingual, you'll hear mostly French on the streets and in the shops.
For greetings "hello" is pretty popular but if you want to be more authentic "goedendag" (daytime) and "goedenavond" (evening/night) are good. "Alstublieft" (please) and "dank u wel" (thank you) will also come in useful. Otherwise "bier", "frietjes" and "chocolade" for your all your dietary requirements!
Quote from: OwL on January 19, 2013, 07:42:21 PM
Hi Brooksy, do you know of many model shops in Belgium that stock N Scale and are worth a visit?
N gauge isn't so popular over here and it's mostly HO. The shop I go to near me 'het spoor' has a little bit in but is not near any stations so not that accessible. MinZaPint suggested that there was a good shop in Blankenberge station (also accessible by rail from Brussels/Bruges) but I've not been so can't confirm. I model mostly UK outline so get most stuff sent over.
If you do find a shop and are tempted by a purchase then there has been a new release in the past couple of months that I would recommend: a SNCB/NMBS class 18 made by Hobbytrain. This is the locomotive that's going to pull you on most of your longer distance journeys.
A few other people have mentioned Ypres / Ieper and I'd definitely second that recommendation, and that for the Menin Gate in the town too, with the nightly remembrance service. It bears the names of 55,000 allied soldiers with no known grave. That's a bit abstract and difficult to get your head around, so when I was there I looked for the surnames of everyone I could think of who I knew, and didn't fail to find a single one represented. Sort of makes the scale of loss more immediate.
In the same area is the Tyne Cot WW1 military cemetery which in my view is a must - about 12,000 graves I think. Very memorable and thought-provoking.
On the same WW1 subject, Poperinghe has a railway station and the Talbot House "Toc H" building in town is really interesting - it was run by a WW1 chaplain as a place for off-duty soldiers of all rank to visit. It's very non-commercial so you won't thankfully find disney-type souvenirs but when I went a few years ago it was very well preserved and run by lovely staff who seem to have taken on board the original ethos.
When you're on the train in the Western Front area keep your eyes open as there are WW1 cemeteries all over the place - some right next to the railway lines. Some are big and some only have a few graves in but they're all immaculate. It's worth having a stroll around one or two and noting the many headstones marked "Known Unto God" or similar, and the ages of the dead.
Finally, the Cloth Hall in Ypres has an excellent WW1 museum which is well worth a visit, plus there's a fantastic chocolate shop across the square.
On the language front, it's hard when there to forecast whether the people you come across will be speaking English, French, Dutch or Flemish. Obviously the first is no problem for most of us, a lot of brits can at least have a stab at French (and the Belgians won't sneer at you when you get it wrong), but Dutch is, well, a foreign language to most of us. As for Flemish... if you can't make out what language people are talking in and it seems like it's a mish-mash of every northern-European tongue you've ever heard, that's Flemish. Attempt at your peril.
Hope you have a great time. Quite jealous.
Flemish is Dutch, they are one and the same. Even the dialect is similar to that spoken in the Netherlands south of the Rhine.
The French spoken in the south is interesting, for example: for 77, the French say soixante dix-sept (sixty seventeen), while the Walloons say septant sept (seventy seven) - far more sensible.
Language is a contentious issue, with even small villages often being divided into a complicated patchwork of langauge zones, and people refusing to acknowledge the other's language. There are enclaves of both languages deep within the others' "territory". Bruxelles is mostly French in the commercial centre and southern suburbs, but mostly Dutch elsewhere. It's not just the language, the Dutch-speakers are more Germanic with Germanic values and work ethic, while the Wallons are at least as French as the French are, and just as good at going on strike. There's probably a religous aspect too, but I won't pretend to understand that.
In the Netherlands, Dutch is the first language, but everyone speaks several languages (including French), quite sickening.
In Flanders, Dutch is the first language, and most speak only Dutch, they're often better at English or German than they are (or admit to being) at French.
Having looked into Ypres after the suggestions, I will be visting the town during my trip and will be there for the memorial which is played at 8pm (according to wikipedia).
That leaves me with 2 days in Brussels and then days in Antwerp, Gent, Bruges and Ypres which fills up the 6 day trip nicely. There is still much more to explore but this is just an excuse to go back :D.
A massive thanks to everyone who has made suggestions, you can't beat first hand experiences of being there.
:NGaugersRule:
Quote from: tadpole on January 20, 2013, 01:35:03 PM
Flemish is Dutch, they are one and the same. Even the dialect is similar to that spoken in the Netherlands south of the Rhine.
I would say that Flemish and Dutch are very similar but not quite one and the same. On the basic level it's a bit like the difference between British English and American English - a few words different here and there. The major problem is the dialects - although (one of) the official language of Belgium is standard Dutch, not many people speak standard Dutch and the Dutch spoken in the different parts of Belgium are so different that even poeple from different parts of the country can't understand each other. Imagine Geordie, Scots or Yorks but far worse - I was quite amazed when I found out that they even subtitled their own people on the television - for example when someone is being interviewed on the news or on a reality TV show like Big Brother. ???
To cookiescrumble, your itinereray looks good and I'm sure you'll have a splendid time. Good luck and let us know how you got on! :thumbsup:
Unless you're in Wallonie, just use English.
The Flemish accent is far more musical than Dutch Dutch, which I find very harsh and unpleasant. The Flems claim to speak Flemish, but it is really an accent. Think of Scotland: most speak English with an accent, few understand the Scots dialect, and hardly any speak Gaelic.
Apart from the places mentioned (a trip on the Brugge canals is nice if the weather is warm), the coastal tram is interesting: huge but too far from the sea. Brussels has a more traditional tram. The tramway museum at Tervuren is woth a visit.
The commuter trains are frequently double-deckers, so give a good view of the surroundings.
Most beers are Flemish (including all those mentioned above), but my favorite is Maredsous which is still brewed by monks, whereas most of the abbey beers are now produced by the company that owns Bud.
Due to a change of dates I've had to put this trip back to my summer leave in May, I will be going for a total of 7 days /6 nights which gives me another day. I'm thinking of using it to visit the lion mound/Waterloo battlefield which was recommended by a colleague at work.
In the meantime I'm off to Germany on the 11th February, staying for a couple of nights in Berlin, then heading to Hamburg on the last day to visit miniature wonderland and flying back from there.
The "Butte du Lion" is well worth the view from the top, the diorama is also worth a look but bear in mind the tapestry was painted a long time ago has to be reguarly repaired. I'm sure you'll enjoy the trip and the :beers:
If you go to Brussels you could always go for a stroll along the edge of North Station in the early eveing, some interesting sites, but no model shops :goggleeyes:
Quote from: swisstony on January 25, 2013, 02:37:03 PM
If you go to Brussels you could always go for a stroll along the edge of North Station in the early eveing, some interesting sites, but no model shops :goggleeyes:
Lots of coloured lights, well red mostly perchance ?
Plenty of loco-hauled stuff...which is always a good thing.
Also decent beer, Delirium(Brussels) is well worth a visit with its 2000-odd varieties of beer, Moules Marinier with fries (fries must have mayo and ketchup...it is the law!), and of course the chocolate. When I was in Brussels in November, there was a model shop near the cathedral.
Don't forget...Brussels also have trams!
Just thought I would post another update with regards to this planned trip. I have filled up my annual leave in late May/early June with a trip to Austria so will be pushing my trip to Belgium back to a later date. I'll be traveling all the way to Vienna from Portsmouth by train :thumbsup: and will spend a total of 10 days abroad. I chose this trip as I have 2 weeks off work and thought it better suited. I can always head to Belgium for one of my long weekends and will certainly head over there this year even if it is just a trip to Brussels.
My new itinerary is:
28th May
Portsmouth to London and the morning Eurostar to Paris arriving at 11:20. I'll have 6 hours in Paris for lunch and a chance to see a few of the sights before departing on the 18:20 TGV Lyria service to Zurich, arriving about 22:30.
29th May
Day in Zurich
30th May
Traveling by Railjet to Salzburg stopping off at Innsbruck for lunch and a mooch about.
31st May - 3rd June
Spending 4 days in Salzburg with 2 days in the city itself and day trips to Munich and Hallstatt.
4th June
Travel by IC train to Vienna stopping off at Linz for lunch and some sightseeing
5-6th June
2 days in Vienna before flying back home in the evening.
Hi,
Sounds like a wonderful trip. So jealous. Have done Calais to Madrid and Calais to Sicily in the past (non of this eurostar rubbish, goes too fast so you can't see anything :D)
Both were great for trainspotting but the latter through Switzerland and northern Italy was great for the scenery.
Would love to travel by train in Austria.
Pics, pics, pics!
Love the 'stop off for lunch' on your itinerary. When I win lottery tonight we could 'do tea in St. Moritz'
Have a great time
Cheers weave
Sounds great. Vienna is superb and the public transport is great with the all day tickets that cover the tram and other local services. The tram (or 'Bing' ) is fun (but slow) and the circle route is worth sitting on if you like architecture (or its raining).
Catacombs and the church were great too (including the roof walk).
Also lots of very very nice cakes in the coffee shops, some of whom keep up very traditional ways, with very smart waiters, little glasses of water between drinks to clear the palate etc.
Alan