I know this is already being discussed in the Brighton Belle thread but thought it was worthy of it's own thread.
For those that may have missed it:
http://www.hornby.de/ftp/Brigton_Belle_Neuheiten2013.pdf (http://www.hornby.de/ftp/Brigton_Belle_Neuheiten2013.pdf)
This seems a pretty spectacular announcement and is odd that Hornby have not made a big deal of it.
Having no knowledge of Arnold what are peoples opinions of their models?
Dan
Aparrently this was not supposed to be common knowledge until the end of January, someone leaked the link to the PDF so an other site suggests. It's nice that it will be in 1:148 scale too as opposed to 1:160... All the hardwork I put into making mine up in smoke as I'll have to buy one of these just for the illuminated table lamps :toot:
Although personally I have no interest in the BB, I hope it sells in shedloads so the venture will be considered a great success and open the gates for more 1/148 models from the same manufacturer :bounce:
i hope this foray into 1:148 goes better for them than lyddle end appears to have done.
anything big left for hornby to snatch up and glare at GF and Dapol mouthing the words "this ones mine!"
Now I know I am modelling the North Kent Line in the current day and that there is a clue in the title that should preclude me from running the Brighton Belle on my layout - BUT I will have to start saving my pennies for what will be a pricey buy...
Think I am also going to claim that Rule #1 will apply...
Hornby and Arnold both seem to favour the "iconic train" concept so the Brighton Belle certainly fits there. My guess is that Hornby will use the existing range of Arnold mechanisms to keep costs down and shrink appropriate body and bogie toolings from their 00 gauge range.
This makes diesel and electric prototypes more likely than steamers IMHO (although I would love to be proved wrong). My guess is that we might see a Javelin or Pendolino if the BB sells well although I would not rule out a shrink of their pullman coaches either.
I just asked the guys at gaugemaster in ford If they had the Arnold range (silly question) then told them about the Brighton belle to which After some keyboard tapping they found the release when they then told another member of staff he replie "no their flipping not" and after he looked at the computer he just said "uh so they are"
I will be buying one, with any luck this could lead to an N RTR javelin or Eurostar so long as hornby are happy to take the shink ray to some more models,,,,
Eurostar will be interesting. Hornby OO are bringing out the new 'Velaro' version. Arnold produce Velaro models in 1:160 (ICE3). So it would be easiest to do it in 1:160.
If you want a Eurostar and can live with 1:160, I can recommend the Kato Eurostar, which is at very good and Kernow will order you the 8 coach version for £136 - a fantastic price.
Greybeema, the 'big' BB will hopefully be on our tracks in the next couple of years so you will be fully justified in running one as a charter train.
Karhedron, I hope you are proved right in your second paragraph! So far, us post-privatisation EMU fans only have one completely UK based train (Desiro) so it would be lovely to see the trains you mention in N.
For sparky, arcy fans this could be an exciting couple of years!
The Javelin would be dead handy to.. Need to do the North Kent link but as I am modelling Northfleet.....
Pengy "Sparky, arcy" - Where did you get that from...... :laugh3:
Thanks for the Link Truffles, however my German isnt as good as it was, so i didnt get the full detail :-(
Good news is that a new player throws their hat into the British N Gauge Ring. If this works (and i pray it does), then our two big players have some new competition. It will boil down to whom has a good range, best QC and best price for the item.
With Hornby's strong British outline range in 00 ready and waiting to be shrunk and Arnold's experience with N, then i would suggest Farish and especially Dapol start pulling up their socks now.
That piece of news has made my day! :D
Thanks for posting.
i will say one thing, if they try their hand at the 4-vep they better sort the problems that plagued the 00 version,,,,, backward bogies and dodgy solid corridor partitions wont wash in N gauge,,,,,
Great news, but why make the press release in German for a British Train?? :confused2:
Bit early for my proposed Model of Portsmouth, but maybe do what the Hastings people did with their 201, buy one, restore it and do charters with it! Either that, or assume the Brighton Belle people got CIG gear and give them a 20 year head start!! :laugh:
Kaiwhara - the BB is being restored - so charters will be a distinct possibility on your proposed layout
http://www.brightonbelle.com/ (http://www.brightonbelle.com/)
Greybeema, - http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=9589.msg100449#msg100449 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=9589.msg100449#msg100449)
Truffles - I have an Arnold ICE3 and it is a beautifully detailed model and runs well. The couplings are not the greatest though.
Ooh,this is quite a development.I hope that it is the case as it conjurs up all sorts of possibilities.
I remember asking Dapol Dave and the Farish chap if they are,or are contemplating doing one of my favourite trains.Neither of them said they were but now this news comes and opens all sorts of possibilities for me.
As a child,my brother and I had a large oo gauge layout and pride of the fleet was a hornby OO gauge late livery APT-P.
I loved this train,still do in fact and having been disappointed by Dapol and Farish's response means I can at least dream of owning one or two in n gauge.
I will be keeping my eye on this subject and hoping that Hornby do produce this iconic train after they have released their Brighton Belle.
I want n gauge APT's,need n gauge APT's.
So Hornby,how about it?
Pretty please.
Pete
:Class31: :Class37: :NGaugersRule:
mmmmm....... APT.... :heart2:
I'll second that !
Looks like a great little model I also hope it sells well.
I am amazed that the Brighton Belle has become somewhat of a cult train like the Blue Pullman, I used to travel on the BB when I was a 7 and 8 year old kid living at my Nans house in Brighton, had no time for it at all because it didn't have a steam loco pulling it :doh:
I'll third the APT request
😃😃😃
If Dapol are having trouble selling the Class 86, I'm not sure the APT would be commercially viable (though I'd like one).
I can see the Javelin or Pendolino both making a fine modern signature model for a new N Gauge range. There are lots of goodies in the Hornby range that would benefit with the "Shrink Ray" treatment.
Quote from: longbridge on January 08, 2013, 01:16:07 AM
Looks like a great little model I also hope it sells well.
I am amazed that the Brighton Belle has become somewhat of a cult train like the Blue Pullman, I used to travel on the BB when I was a 7 and 8 year old kid living at my Nans house in Brighton, had no time for it at all because it didn't have a steam loco pulling it :doh:
So you'll be buying one then! >:D ;D I'm looking forward to travelling on one on the 'big' railway.
The BB was second in our poll last year for the loco that you would most like to see in N
(in the EMU class). The APT did not feature in the top four, unfortunately.
Now I'll have to consider putting a third rail onto Unitrack (eek!) along with the cat system for my continental trains - life can be complicated in the sparky, arcy world!
Quote from: Pengy on January 07, 2013, 04:50:55 PM
If you want a Eurostar and can live with 1:160, I can recommend the Kato Eurostar, which is at very good and Kernow will order you the 8 coach version for £136 - a fantastic price.
Would love a Eurostar but not sure how much bigger it is if it would look wrong next to British scale N gauge.
Not sure which livery I would buy the BB in. I like both liveries for different reasons.
These days Eurostar works on HS1 so won't need to be mixed with 'normal' British trains. Same will apply to Velaro, indeed the latter probably couldn't work off HS1. So 1:160 for those is less of an issue.
Quote from: GWR-Kris on January 08, 2013, 08:16:53 AM
Quote from: Pengy on January 07, 2013, 04:50:55 PM
If you want a Eurostar and can live with 1:160, I can recommend the Kato Eurostar, which is at very good and Kernow will order you the 8 coach version for £136 - a fantastic price.
Would love a Eurostar but not sure how much bigger it is if it would look wrong next to British scale N gauge.
1:160 is smaller than 1:148 (by about 8%). Given that the Eurostar is longer than most british trains, having it to a slightly smaller scale does not matter so much. An 8% difference is noticable if you have vehicles to different scales in the same train. Less so if you have separate trains.
Quote from: Karhedron on January 08, 2013, 09:10:01 AM
Quote from: GWR-Kris on January 08, 2013, 08:16:53 AM
Quote from: Pengy on January 07, 2013, 04:50:55 PM
If you want a Eurostar and can live with 1:160, I can recommend the Kato Eurostar, which is at very good and Kernow will order you the 8 coach version for £136 - a fantastic price.
Would love a Eurostar but not sure how much bigger it is if it would look wrong next to British scale N gauge.
1:160 is smaller than 1:148 (by about 8%). Given that the Eurostar is longer than most british trains, having it to a slightly smaller scale does not matter so much. An 8% difference is noticable if you have vehicles to different scales in the same train. Less so if you have separate trains.
I can be stupid at times, I have always assumed they where bigger for some reason.
Quote from: GWR-Kris on January 08, 2013, 09:36:27 AM
I can be stupid at times, I have always assumed they where bigger for some reason.
its because 160 is bigger number than 148, but as its 1 to X its a smaller ratio.
If you think of a cake, the more slices you cut it into, the smaller the slices.
I'd love a 5BEL. It would be sooo wrong (placewise and timewise) at Salisbury, but no wronger than my 4LAV. It would be slightly less wrong in the blue livery, but I think i'd rather be very wrong and have a brown one.
Does anyone know, is the restored Belle in the Cream & Umber or Blue & Grey livery? I prefer the former but if I am running a charter in the modern age then it should be in the restored colours...
It's going to be restored in Umber and Cream - probably with the obligatory yellow panel. One of the driving cars was on display at Railfest last year, showing the work that's going to be done.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7084/7342467492_3940e80103_c.jpg)
The restored unit is being fitted with the bogies and traction equipment from a 4-CIG, so will look quite different to the model version what it's ready. The original units were very rough riding, so a good set of B5 bogies will be a vast improvement.
Thanks Adam, I am sure I can rationalise out the B5 bogies to have one of these babies.... I knew the Catering Manager for the Belle. I understand you used to only get a half bowl of soup served because of the hard ride...
Quote from: Greybeema on January 08, 2013, 07:37:18 PM
I understand you used to only get a half bowl of soup served because of the hard ride...
OK, OK, it's off topic but I couldn't resist.........
Two Soups (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6aYLOf8CUQ#)
Sorry - am in frivolous mode tonight :-[
Quote from: captainelectra on January 08, 2013, 07:29:47 PM
It's going to be restored in Umber and Cream - probably with the obligatory yellow panel.
Perhaps a good solution if you wish to model the perserved set would be to use the warning panel transfers supplied by Fox. Cut to size and apply the waterslide. If you ever wish to sell the unit, dampen the front until the transfer slides off again. Might be a good compromise for those who want to run it on an MI layout but preserve the collectable value.
Have I missed it or any idea how much? My bank account is still shaky from the BP purchase!!
David
You haven't missed it, price has not been announced yet. However comparing the prices of the 00 BB and BP, don't expect the N gauge version to be much cheaper than the BP. Not if you want the full 5-car set anyway.
Quote from: BernardTPM on January 08, 2013, 08:50:24 AM
These days Eurostar works on HS1 so won't need to be mixed with 'normal' British trains. Same will apply to Velaro, indeed the latter probably couldn't work off HS1. So 1:160 for those is less of an issue.
This is true, on Choates Lane, by Mirlees and Free_debt_man of this parish, the 2 Eurostars and TGV's run on the lower HS1 and therefore never mix with British 1:148 stock, which runs on the top level. So no-one ever notices the scale difference.
Regards
Neal.
Quote from: Calnefoxile on January 09, 2013, 11:24:30 AM
This is true, on Choates Lane, by Mirlees and Free_debt_man of this parish, the 2 Eurostars and TGV's run on the lower HS1 and therefore never mix with British 1:148 stock, which runs on the top level. So no-one ever notices the scale difference.
Regards
Neal.
That is a great idea - wish I'd thought of that when I was building my layout. I tend to run the 1:160 stuff together. In real life the ICE is a bigger train than the Voyager so they don't look too bad together on the track
Providing you stick to the High Speed lines, modelling those in 1:160 should be quite possible. As mentioned, there's already Eurostar and Velaro, there's a Class 66 and obviously container wagons and some ferry vans already available in 1:160.
Yes I think its a shame they didn't do more with the 2012 LU. So near but yet so far. But I do realise this was for the toy market although i am happy with my conversion.
David
can't believe this amazing development has not been covered at all on sky news, bbc news, al jazeera etc etc!!! what is wrong with the media!!!!
Hornby have never produced the intermediate trailers for the Eurostar in OO, presumably due to low sales due to the size of layout needed to accommodate them.
Perhaps they are seeing that N may be the way forward for those wishing to model longer trains and we will see full-length sets appear in the nice new livery!
Quote from: bluedepot on January 09, 2013, 06:53:43 PM
can't believe this amazing development has not been covered at all on sky news, bbc news, al jazeera etc etc!!! what is wrong with the media!!!!
I know but one former pop star I barely know of cheating on a current pop star I barely know of is front page news with another 1 1/2 pages inside,,,,,
I do hope Hornby/Arnold enter the UK N Gauge market fully would be nice to have more competion with Dapol and Farish. Will also help increase the variety of products available too
Quote from: GWR-Kris on January 10, 2013, 01:55:16 PM
I do hope Hornby/Arnold enter the UK N Gauge market fully would be nice to have more competion with Dapol and Farish. Will also help increase the variety of products available too
Maybe the quality too ? :-X
How has the OO Belle sold does anyone know?
I would say that if an N Belle is a commercial success for Hornby then they'll be back. So get all yor friends to go out and buy one..... 3rd Rail Rocks....
Some signs of discounting (more the blue/grey ones than the cream/umber ones).
They don't appear to have vanished in the same way that the first batch of Blue Pullmans did.
Quote from: Greybeema on January 10, 2013, 04:48:09 PM
How has the OO Belle sold does anyone know?
I would say that if an N Belle is a commercial success for Hornby then they'll be back. So get all yor friends to go out and buy one..... 3rd Rail Rocks....
Well said :beers:
Quote from: Greybeema on January 10, 2013, 04:48:09 PM
I would say that if an N Belle is a commercial success for Hornby then they'll be back. So get all yor friends to go out and buy one..... 3rd Rail Rocks....
Apart from... y'know... modelling the damn thing. The 4CEP catches my eye greatly too, as does the Belle, but the thought of trying to build a third rail on top of all the other track I'm not getting round to finishing...
Anyone interested in an N gauge Pendolino should look here - this may be the solution to the HST problem! Ie 3D printing
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/61710-n-gauge-pendolino-2nd-attempt-this-time-with-cad/ (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/61710-n-gauge-pendolino-2nd-attempt-this-time-with-cad/)
Nick R
Quote from: BernardTPM on January 09, 2013, 12:28:30 PM
Providing you stick to the High Speed lines, modelling those in 1:160 should be quite possible. As mentioned, there's already Eurostar and Velaro, there's a Class 66 and obviously container wagons and some ferry vans already available in 1:160.
For Snow Hill I've deliberately put the HS2 lines at the back of the layout when in the station area. That combined with the larger stock involved will be sufficient.
Alan
I really hope this works out for Hornby. There are numerous items in their OO range i would like to see shurnk (Pendo and Pullmans top of the list!). So even though i have no third rail on any of my layouts i've still pre-ordered an umber and cream set :D
Ollie
thanks Ollie, didn't know you can pre-order so I've pre-ordered the umber and cream set from Rails (plus the add on coaches)
I think this is great news!
Whilst I've no need for any arcy sparky stuff, I hope they sell like hot cakes.
Then Hornby will shrink other stuff and we'll all start to benefit, even if its just chassis wise.
A third big player in the N gauge r-t-r market can only lead to good things!
I just hope they knock out a few steam locos that the others haven't made, (just wishful thinking).
Thanks Ollie didn't know you could pre-order..
Now I have just done two things I have never done before:-
1) Pre Ordered a product (especially when I don't know the price).
2) Ordered something from Rails of Sheffield (usually use Hattons).
Looking forwards to it arriving (but not for the bill) at least I might have the time to save up. Need to look into what decoder would be best. Perhaps Douglas at Wickness could advise??
Also going to look into a Parcel Motel service so that it effectively becomes UK postal delivery...
There's also a thread on RMW about this
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66488-brighton-belle-in-n/page-1 (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66488-brighton-belle-in-n/page-1)
Including:
"This should have been announced at the Nuremberg Toy Fair later this month but it seems as though Arnold were keen to get the information out there. Simon Kohler is currently creating a leaflet for the product but some of the product information available is as follows:
HN3000: LB&SCR, electric railcar "Brighton Belle", original version of the luxury Pullman train set as it was in service between London Victoria and Brighton from 1934 on, 3-unit set
HN3500: LB&SCR, electric railcar "Brighton Belle", original version from 1934, additional 2-unit set
HN3001: BR, electric railcar "Brighton Belle", blue/grey livery, version from 1969-1972, 3-unit set
HN3501: BR, electric railcar "Brighton Belle", blue/grey livery, version from 1969-1972, additional 2-unit set
Scale: 1:148
Availability: Late 2013
Price: TBC at Nuremberg"
:)
A new Hatton's newsletter says that prices will be announced 'next month'.
That'll be interesting/terrifying depending on if you, like me have pre-ordered one!
Dave G
I reckon,and this is just my opinion,that Hornby,with the help of Arnold,are testing the waters with British N gauge products.Having read on RMweb and NRM,there are thoughts from people there that Hornby are after some of the n gauge market due to its expanding market share,others say its about getting even with Dapol for moving back into the oo scale market place,having previously sold all their oo gauge lines to Hornby and creating a supposed "gentlemen's agreement".
As we all know,Hornby had a lousy year financially last year,so anyway they can recoup some if their losses by expanding into other markets is only understanding,its a dog eat dog world we live in,as has been demonstrated by the recent high street store collapses.
If Hornby is indeed muscling in on the n gauge market to get even with Dapol for manufacturing and launching oo gauge products,then Dapols move into the o gauge market could spark something from Heljan perhaps.
Its an interesting thought,I think you'll agree,and even though I have had no issues with Dapols supposed build and quality control,it can only help improve matters with regards to running reliability and new levels of detail,particularly as Arnold chassis are supposed to be really good,not that I have any experience of them myself.
The thought of all the various loco's being produced by Hornby and Heljan that have the potential for being put under the shrink ray is quite a mouthwatering prospect in my opinion,although I won't hold my breath.
Could be quite interesting times ahead for us and bumpy times for others,I suspect.
Pete
:Class31: :Class37: :NGaugersRule:
I doubt Hornby give 2 hoots about Dapol moving into 00 and I seriously doubt it is any kind of "retaliation". Getting personal in business clouds judgement and leads to (expensive) mistakes. Hornby have made enough of those recently without trying to "get even" with Dapol.
Now the N gauge market is the only section of the Hobby that has continued expanding during the recession and I can logically see Hornby wanting to see if they can get a slice of that cake.
I share your views,Karhedron.I thought the retribution aspect was a bit far fetched as well but you know that people will have their opinions and stir things a bit even though they have no connecrion to either business.
The truth is this,Dapol have said nothing on the matter,well,not to my knowledge anyway,so this shows there are no ill feelings between the manufacturers.Competition is good for us and keeps them on their toes as well,although Dapol are significantly smaller than Hornby.
I hope that the emergence of Arnold into the british n gauge market pushes innovation forward,such as dcc sound equipped loco's etc.If this were to be the case,then both Farish and Dapol would be forced to compete as well,even though both have been quoted as saying they won't be producing n gauge dcc sound equipped products any time soon.
I do,however,prescribe to the view that Hornby have missed out on an expanding market and want a slice of the action,so to speak.So it would seem this experiment,if a success,would give us all a more diverse product line up and as I have already stated earlier on in this thread mean I may have an n gauge APT one day,or even two,as we are beginning to see quite a few blue era layouts appearing on this very forum.
One just hopes that Hornby don't duplicate what the others are doing or have done in the past by producing the same classes of loco,such as the Dapol/Farish Voyager,66 etc.
I think choice is a good thing,however,a larger range of loco's etc is what we all want to see.Who wants to see all the main protagonists producing the same thing?
Pete
:Class31: :Class37: :NGaugersRule:
Quote from: Karhedron on January 17, 2013, 09:50:32 PM
Now the N gauge market is the only section of the Hobby that has continued expanding during the recession and I can logically see Hornby wanting to see if they can get a slice of that cake.
Interesting statement. As one who regularly 'pimps' the forum and our gauge, have you facts to back that up please?
I could certainly use them :thumbsup:
Quote from: Pete Mc on January 17, 2013, 11:01:51 PM
The truth is this,Dapol have said nothing on the matter,well,not to my knowledge anyway,so this shows there are no ill feelings between the manufacturers.Competition is good for us and keeps them on their toes as well,although Dapol are significantly smaller than Hornby.
Pete
:Class31: :Class37: :NGaugersRule:
Pleased to read on Dapol's Facebook site in answer to a comment on the "Brighton Belle" Joel replied "we are all winners". This is consistent with the positive feedback from DapolDave's to various Farish new items. I do not think that Hornby/Arnold presence in the Uk N market poses a threat to Dapol or Farish. It will help to grow the total N market and the greater the viability of the N market. That should attract enough investment for a steady flow of new items. However DapolDave on RMWeb recently commented on the poor sales of the Class 86 and the poor sales of 3rd rail EMUs, which suggests to me that the Class 92 and the Pendolino are likely to remain firmly on the back burner in the near term not least because of the possibility of Hornby dusting off their 00 models to shrink to N if the Brighton Belle venture succeeds.
Mike
Quote from: newportnobby on January 18, 2013, 08:14:29 AM
Quote from: Karhedron on January 17, 2013, 09:50:32 PM
Now the N gauge market is the only section of the Hobby that has continued expanding during the recession and I can logically see Hornby wanting to see if they can get a slice of that cake.
Interesting statement. As one who regularly 'pimps' the forum and our gauge, have you facts to back that up please?
I could certainly use them :thumbsup:
I read it recently but I cannot remember where. It might have been one of the big retailers like Rails or Hattons. The statement was to the effect that the Hobby overall was static but that N gauge was a growing segment of it.
I've heard the same in various forms from multiple vendors. Although Dave's interview in BRM seems to imply the N market is saturated and slowing down too as the country continues to go down the pan.
Alan
Quote from: woodbury22uk on January 18, 2013, 09:44:57 AM
However DapolDave on RMWeb recently commented on the poor sales of the Class 86 and the poor sales of 3rd rail EMUs, which suggests to me that the Class 92 and the Pendolino are likely to remain firmly on the back burner in the near term not least because of the possibility of Hornby dusting off their 00 models to shrink to N if the Brighton Belle venture succeeds.
Yes, the 86s do seem to have been slow sellers. Even the ltd editions in BR blue hung around for about 18 months (much to the chagrain of the shop who commisioned them).
I am not so sure about the 3rd rail stuff. BachFar followed the 4-CEP with the Desiro and I have not seen them in the bargain basements yet. They have been marked down a bit by some retailers but only by the amount you would normally expect for models that have been out a year or so.
I don't model electrics but I would be sad to see electric modelling consigned to the back burner for another 5 years. The trouble is that I cannot see what needs to be done to encourage it. Dapol released the 86, Mk3 coaches and DVT and RTP catenary. Farish released the Desiro. There is plenty of other stock to go with them (87s, 90s, Mk2 coaches etc) which are adequate (even if not up to modern standards). Plus there are contemporary DMUs includinng several flavours of Sprinter which often run alongside these units under the wires.
What is "critical mass" for OHEL modelling? We have express and suburban trains plus some suitable infrastructure. What do potential electric modellers feel is missing that would tip them over into building an electric layout? Is this a chicken-and-egg scenario? Do modellers not feel electrics are sufficiently well supported for them to take the plunge? Converseley, how can manufacturers commit to the subject if previous efforts do not sell?
I am rather hoping that Dapol's new class 33 is followed by REP/TC units as these can work off the juice and allow a good stepping stone into SR electric modelling. The same could be said of DEMUs but so far there is no sign of Bachy's Thumper going through the shrink ray.
Quote from: woodbury22uk on January 18, 2013, 09:44:57 AM
However DapolDave on RMWeb recently commented on the poor sales of the Class 86 and the poor sales of 3rd rail EMUs,
I'm not so sure how Dapol would know exactly about sales of third rail EMUs as they have never produced one. The nearest they got is probably the class 73 but that is an electro-diesel locomotive and they saturated the market with a huge number of them - at least 8,000 in the first couple of years - which is significantly higher than production and supply of other models these days.
It would also be a shame if they effectively shut the door on all electrics (overhead and conductor rail) as it's without doubt the future of the real railways. And the Japanese and continental markets don't seem to find it a problem to produce and sell OHLE stock. Plus in OO there seems to be quite a surge of interest in modelling the Southern electric scene and both Bachmann and Hornby are wacking out 3rd rail models (EPBs, CIGs, VEPs, BELs, MLVs, BILs, etc.).
H.
Quote from: Karhedron on January 18, 2013, 11:04:47 AM
Yes, the 86s do seem to have been slow sellers. Even the ltd editions in BR blue hung around for about 18 months (much to the chagrain of the shop who commisioned them).
I don't model electrics but I would be sad to see electric modelling consigned to the back burner for another 5 years. The trouble is that I cannot see what needs to be done to encourage it. Dapol released the 86, Mk3 coaches and DVT and RTP catenary. Farish released the Desiro. There is plenty of other stock to go with them (87s, 90s, Mk2 coaches etc) which are adequate (even if not up to modern standards). Plus there are contemporary DMUs includinng several flavours of Sprinter which often run alongside these units under the wires.
What is "critical mass" for OHEL modelling? We have express and suburban trains plus some suitable infrastructure. What do potential electric modellers feel is missing that would tip them over into building an electric layout? Is this a chicken-and-egg scenario? Do modellers not feel electrics are sufficiently well supported for them to take the plunge? Converseley, how can manufacturers commit to the subject if previous efforts do not sell?
I am still surprised that the 86 has sold so poorly, though I do wonder about some of the livery choices. NSE and EWS rather than blue and/or some variant of intercity/exec? If something like the 67 can sell so well then it seems very odd that an 86 (or a 92) wouldn't.
I have longer term plans to build an OHLE layout. The missing link for me is still really units - there is nothing really EMU-wise for running with 86/97/90, a 321 would be useful. The Desiro is fantastic but then you really need a Pendolino.
Cheers, Mike
Anyone got any more information on the Arnold Brighton Belle?
Needless to say I did not get any response to my earlier email to Hornby international about it. I also recall emailing them a couple of years ago suggesting there might be an opportunity in the UK N gauge market for a certain express EMU and didn't get a reply to that either.
Even an indication of the price of BB would be nice.
Quote from: Karhedron on February 15, 2013, 09:55:27 AM
Even an indication of the price of BB would be nice.
Spot-on Matt. Just over 3 weeks to the dealer order deadline and still no indication of price. It will be interesting to hear the explanation of Hornby International/Arnold if the venture founders for lack of orders. Or will they go ahead and produce 200 at £1000 each to satisfy the pan-European demand? One thing is certain. This is not a reliable way to test of the market for N gauge UK outline products from Hornby.
Mike
Lack of price info made me decide to cancel my pre-order.
Anyway, if it's to be anything like the suggested £1K Mike suggests that, to me, is totally bonkers and way beyond what I would or can pay!
Dave G
Quote from: daveg on February 15, 2013, 10:36:06 AM
Lack of price info made me decide to cancel my pre-order.
Anyway, if it's to be anything like the suggested £1K Mike suggests that, to me, is totally bonkers and way beyond what I would or can pay!
Dave G
My £1000 is just a shot at how much they might need to charge for a 5 car set if they make a really small run of say 100 of each.
Since I posted earlier I have read the comments of Hornby International in the March Hornby Magazine:-
"Hornby International's Marketing Manager Nikolaus Mohr told Hornby Magazine "The "Brighton Belle" is thought to be just the starting point for a larger commitment in the British 'N' scale market with high-quality items. We are very curious to see how the "Brighton Belle" will be received among the British 'N' scale enthusiasts"".We shall see. :worried:
Mike
I may be missing the point of that quote but how can you judge the pre sales of something if you don't tell anyone what the price will be. No info no sales no n gauge range, all very odd.
This is the info I have heard:
There is no guarantee that these will be produced. The idea behind the 'order' date is to see if there is enough demand. If there is then they will be made, if not then the project is binned.
I can see the point of view in regard to price but why not order now (to help ensure they get produced) and then, if they are out of budget, cancel after a price has been announced?
Ollie
Quote from: Ollie3440 on February 15, 2013, 12:36:02 PM
I can see the point of view in regard to price but why not order now (to help ensure they get produced) and then, if they are out of budget, cancel after a price has been announced?
Isn't this going to leave the dealers a bit stitched up, if we're doing it en masse?
Quote from: Ollie3440 on February 15, 2013, 12:36:02 PM
There is no guarantee that these will be produced. The idea behind the 'order' date is to see if there is enough demand. If there is then they will be made, if not then the project is binned.
I can see the point of view in regard to price but why not order now (to help ensure they get produced) and then, if they are out of budget, cancel after a price has been announced?
It's rather odd - they say that that production is dependant on demand but they don't take orders from the public but from the dealers/retailers. Even if you went in to a shop and demanded or ordered one (if it is possible as no-one is likely to leave a deposit not knowing the price) there is no guarantee that the shop will place an order with Hornby - they might wait until they are available or not even bother if it means commitment when customers might cancel.
H.
:hmmm: I is beginning to wonder if Hornby are dangling the old N gauge carrot again? ???
I'm just relaying what i heard. I know we placed our order for them earlier this week but its worth noting this is nothing do with Hornby at Margate. All UK orders are being dealt with by OnTracks so it may be worth contacting them to find out what they know?
Ollie
Guess we'll just have to wait and see.
I get Ollie's point but without any kind of indicative price I'm unwilling to commit to an ongoing pre-order.
I have other bits of kit on pre-order but at least I know the cost and have set aside that amount.
In the end demand may exceed supply and I lose out getting one but it does seem a bit strange that a retailer is placing an order on a supplier without any knowledge of their costs.
Dave G
Mines on Pre-order but if it comes out as much more than the Blue Pullman - I will be cancelling. I am not going to ripped off and there is a recession on. I'll spend some of that money purchasing the bits to make a couple more 465 Networkers...
To quote Leonard McCoy, "What the hell kind of strategy is this?" :no:
I really wonder what sort of marketing plan Hornby are using at the moment. They don't seem to be winning many friends in the retail sector at the moment, if posts on some of the other forums are to be believed.
It's marketing Jim , but not as we know it. :D
Seriously though, despite Farish and Dapol having the lion's share of the UK rtr market nothing lasts forever
and if Hornby / Arnold produce a successful model at an affordable price it may encourage them to do
further British N products , especially if their quality control is better than Farish and Dapol.
Reading the News section of this month's BRM page 94, there is an article re the BB. Cheers john.
Ok last posts on here were in February.
Does anyone have any news? - I have a Belle on pre-order from Rails. I still have no idea how much or when... Is it really going to materials or was it all just expensive hype? :unimpressed:
Still nothing - I've been checking regularly :(
When I spoke to Hornby a month or so back it was definitely going ahead, but Hornby (UK) hadn't been given the price still.
Cheers, Mike
As reported in both N'spirations11 and UPDate #70, I spoke with Simon Kohler (Hornby's Marketing Manager) at the Ally Pally show in March. He confirmed that the model was going ahead and was scheduled for delivery in early 2014. He also said that he had pictures of the tooling that he would take along to DEMU's ShowCase exhibition in July for examination.
H.