Matthew Pinto asked me to look into producing the O.13 milk brake, and he also figured out it could be plonked straight and accurately onto the old Farish four wheel coach chassis (the one you have spare from putting the body on a Stove-R six wheel chassis :D)
They were built in 1921, apparently from WW1 pharmacy cars (although this is disputed in some circles) and lasted until the 1960s, ending their lives in departmental service including brakedown trains, with one (1399) going to the Severn Valley afterwards.
http://www.steampicturelibrary.com/low.php?xp=media&xm=510916 (http://www.steampicturelibrary.com/low.php?xp=media&xm=510916)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/svr_enthusiast/4001102402/# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/svr_enthusiast/4001102402/#)
I've worked through the drawings and come up with a design for a kit which would consist of the following.
Polished 3D printed shell with pre-formed ventilator holes
Etched sides to glue on for body plus doors, plus guards door
Etched ends to glue on (one layer for plain two layers including steps for other)
Glue on Trussing and V hangar
Gas cylinder
Vacuum cylinder
Ventilators
The price would be £20 for the kit (not including the chassis). But in order to get that price we would need to sell a minimum of 10 kits.
We are not looking for deposits or anything at this stage but would welcome expressions of interest to see if prodution is going to be feasible.
Please let Matthew or me know if you would be interested in buying one (or more ;) ).
Alan
I'd be interested although I'm now kicking myself for disposing of the last of my four wheel carriages :doh:
Wonder if there's an alternative chassis.
Two Peco 15' wagon chassis a hacksaw and some plasticard ought to work. Take one of the chassis saw it in half and splice in a bit of the other one. Remove all the surplus details and glue together with some sort of strengthener then add the footboards.
Alan
How about the shredded wheat carriage chassis? No suitable coupling but though I am not into said design I have one if anybody wants it.
I would certainly be interested in one, Alan.
Gerry
Quite promising. Between replies on here and on the N gauge yahoo group, we are up to 6.
Just 4 more to go for a viable run. :claphappy:
I might be interested, but know nothing about the prototype. Why would milk trains need a special brake? However, I love the look of the SVR example and would consider buying one for departmental use.
David
Quote from: Sea Mills on March 01, 2013, 09:07:35 PM
I might be interested, but know nothing about the prototype. Why would milk trains need a special brake? However, I love the look of the SVR example and would consider buying one for departmental use.
Milk trains needed special brake vehicles because they ran at express passenger speeds, otherwise the milk would have gone off by the time it arrived. A Toad would not be rated to run that fast.
One option (which was used widely) was to use an old full-brake that had been cascaded down from express services. However this could be wasteful as a Milk train rarely carried much in the way of luggage or parcels so most of the vehicle was empty.
So the GWR built some small brake vehicles specifically for the purpose. They provided accomodation for the Guard but not much else. (The LMS and LNER both built compact 6-wheeled brakes for these sorts of duties).
I have only found one shot of W1399 in departmental use but it does not seem to have been modified, just painted grey.
If there is demand, I can enquire about getting some transfers made up to suit.
Hi,
I'm certainly up for one, I've a big 'to do' drawer that needs feeding :-[
Regards, Gerry.
Quote from: Karhedron on March 01, 2013, 09:15:06 PM
If there is demand, I can enquire about getting some transfers made up to suit.
That would make life much easier, and would be much appreciated. :thumbsup:
Gerry
I would also be interested in one for departmental use. Add me to the list :thumbsup:
Hi,
Put me down for one.
Cheers
Alistair
Quote from: Karhedron on March 01, 2013, 09:15:06 PM
If there is demand, I can enquire about getting some transfers made up to suit.
Looks like Cambridge Custom Transfers already produce a sheet for these vehicles. Sheet C85.
http://www.cctrans.freeserve.co.uk/products.htm (http://www.cctrans.freeserve.co.uk/products.htm)
If you're willing to ship to the antipodes, put me down for one (and of course I'll pay postage).
- Michael
Quote from: ToothFairy on March 03, 2013, 07:25:32 AM
If you're willing to ship to the antipodes, put me down for one (and of course I'll pay postage).
Sounds fair enough.
I'm interested.
Always wondered what brake van was used for a full rake of milk tanks.
Thanks for the explanation Karhedron. I would sign up for one.
David
Quote from: barkfast on March 03, 2013, 12:25:08 PM
Always wondered what brake van was used for a full rake of milk tanks.
Not just tanks, trains of siphons too. :)
That's an interesting looking vehicle, though not anything I'd use.
I wish you well on this project, hope you get enough on board. :thumbsup:
As it looks like we have enough I've added a deposit and reservations page
at
http://www.ultima-models.co.uk/catalogue/gwr-milk.html (http://www.ultima-models.co.uk/catalogue/gwr-milk.html)
I'm afraid my catalogue tool can't do one of those arty graphical target
or counter bars 8)
Alan
Does it matter which one we pre-order as there are 2 to choose from?
Alistair
Quote from: alibuchan on March 04, 2013, 11:21:07 PM
Does it matter which one we pre-order as there are 2 to choose from?
Alistair
Sorry the idea was to use that to indicate if you were interested in decals.
Time to put my money where my mouth is. £ :D £
That'll be 3 then please! :NGaugersRule:
Paid - with an interest in the decals.
Alistair
I am also interested, either for use in a milk train or as a departmental vehicle, doesanyone know more about their use in milk trains?
What does one look like
Bart
Sorry Alan, unable to place/pay for order yet as I'm unable to access your web site. Will try again later.
Gerry
Website off line?
Quote from: Hailstone on March 05, 2013, 12:33:24 AM
I am also interested, either for use in a milk train or as a departmental vehicle, doesanyone know more about their use in milk trains?
They were used in milk trains from the 1920s until the mid 1950s. They ran with trains of siphons originally but from the late 1920s onwards, an increasing proportion of milk tankers were included in milk trains. I think one was branded for a specific route (Frome IIRC) but some were simply branded for milk trains too and from London. This means they could reasonably be seen on any part of the GWR network.
Quote from: 1936ace on March 05, 2013, 04:57:45 AM
What does one look like
Like this!
http://www.steampicturelibrary.com/low.php?xp=media&xm=510916 (http://www.steampicturelibrary.com/low.php?xp=media&xm=510916)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/svr_enthusiast/4001102402/# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/svr_enthusiast/4001102402/#)
Quote from: GrahamB on March 05, 2013, 08:37:19 AM
Website off line?
Well its online but having some domain name problems. Looks like our provider for some reason didn't secondary the Ultima domains and the main server for them has gone kerplop.
Should all be back in a bit - just need to investigate why it didn't have a working secondary.
Alan
All working fine now.
Decided to go for two :thankyousign:
Thanks Alan, order placed for two kits. :thankyousign:
Gerry
Order placed with Decal interest. Will the BR and departmental decals be done as well as the GWR ones?
I've never made a coach or truck before but this looks so cute I might have a go, especially as I've got the Dapol club Class 22 and milk tanks on order, would it be wrong to have it on the back?
Quote from: whiteswan on March 05, 2013, 07:26:15 PM
I've never made a coach or truck before but this looks so cute I might have a go, especially as I've got the Dapol club Class 22 and milk tanks on order, would it be wrong to have it on the back?
For the tanks I believe it would be within period for the class 22 probably wrong, except in departmental usage. Put a kettle on them ;)
Alan
Yay we have enough orders.
3D printed shell
(http://images1.sw-cdn.net/model/picture/674x501_948328_854035_1362520199.jpg)
Next stop the etches.
Alan
Test etch artwork for the brake mostly done. Still have the trussing and V hangars to attend to. Having peered at photographs a lot it seems either 1399 always had less handrails than 1397 or the SVR missed some when restoring it. Hard to tell which.
It would be useful if anyone has or knows of images of the guard end of 1397. 1399 has a strange mix of ends - one with decorative work and steps, the other a later plain metal style. I know the non guard end of 1397 and 1399 match but I'm wary of assuming that for the other end in case it was a repair or an oddity.
Alan
and as a PS - internet and name problems not entirely sorted. I'm hoping it will get soon but if it all disappears again don't panic (leave the running around screaming to me 8))
Latest on this is apparently that the ISP hosting the name server had the cabinet power go, including it seems taking out the machine PSU.
We used to have a milk break at school but it was for the U.10's not the O.13's because we had to change schools when we were 11. Eventually Margaret Thatcher decided it was a bad thing and stopped it.
Ok we will probably vanish from the net until Monday at some point. The name server saga continues having gone through couriers failing to delivery power supplies (alleging nobody present - at a site with 24hr security staff on the door !), delivering it late and then finding the replacement PSU appears faulty.
Contingency plans in place but won't take effect until Monday.
In the mean time I'll have a quiet afternoon cheering for Italy :beers:
Alan
:sorrysign: Been away from the forum for a few days, so I'm a bit late, but I've just ordered (with an interest in decals).
- Michael
Noticed this thread the other day and just registered on the forums so I could post.
I think I'd be interested in getting one of these, but don't have any experience with etched brass. Before I pre-order one, I'd just like to ask; would the overlays be fairly easy to attach for a beginner? I assume I'd have to shape the side overlays to fit the curve below the window line.
Quote from: AC on March 11, 2013, 09:57:53 PM
Noticed this thread the other day and just registered on the forums so I could post.
I think I'd be interested in getting one of these, but don't have any experience with etched brass. Before I pre-order one, I'd just like to ask; would the overlays be fairly easy to attach for a beginner? I assume I'd have to shape the side overlays to fit the curve below the window line.
I'm trying to make it as easy as possible - no solder bits and to make the bending as simple as possible. You are correct that the ends and sides need curving a little before gluing them on. You may also be able to find someone who will build them to order - I don't know.
Alan
I like easy :claphappy:
Thinking about the chassis, what is the difference in length between the Farish 4 wheel carriage and the brake vans (SR perhaps)? It looks like the price of the 4 wheelers has gone through the roof on "that" auction site.
For information. Farish 4 wheeler has an overall chassis length of 65mm and distance between the axles is 40mm.
There may be someting out there similar dimensions.
Possibly the simplest solution is to do a cut-and-shut of 2 Peco chassis to produce something of the correct length and wheelbase. Then add the running boards out of some plastic strip.
Slightly more work but a pretty cheap option. Plus it does not matter if the join is not too tidy as it will be hidden under the body. ;) Just as long as it runs true it should the job.
Quote from: GrahamB on March 12, 2013, 08:14:05 AM
I like easy :claphappy:
Thinking about the chassis, what is the difference in length between the Farish 4 wheel carriage and the brake vans (SR perhaps)? It looks like the price of the 4 wheelers has gone through the roof on "that" auction site.
You want a 63.5mm chassis at 39mm wheelbase or thereabout
One way to make a lot of chassis like this is to take a pair of Peco chassis and a saw. A pair of the brake van chassis ought to do the trick for the milk van, in fact it's one of the easier ones as the buffer to axle distance is about right already.
You can make lots of fun chassis that way - including both long six wheelers and short ones (eg Barry Railway mineral brake vans)
Alan
Quote from: EtchedPixels on March 11, 2013, 10:11:43 PM
I'm trying to make it as easy as possible - no solder bits and to make the bending as simple as possible.
Thanks for the reply. It sounds like this could be my first play with brass then :D . Just pre-ordered one with interest in decals.
Managed to secure two of the required coaches yesterday for a fiver each plus post. Was quite happy at that price.
And the best thing is they don't have any couplings on them so I don't have to take a knife to them to DG couplings to them.
If the other person who has said he wants one of these wagons decides he doesn't, I will put the spare on the classifieds.
Alistair
I managed to get three for £6.50! :claphappy:
Not good examples mind but the chassis on two of them are fine which is all I want.
Had to laugh when I looked at ebay.
(http://www.etchedpixels.co.uk/Gallery/NGF/Milk1.jpg)
Test build thrown together quickly with copious quantities of glue
Various niggles to sort
- some of the struts are a bit too weak (I broke one building it)
- try and put in the internal wall for the guards compartment so the window views are properly blocked
- lower walls on print need to be a bit thicker (I was slightly too much of a skinflint on that 8))
- figure out why the end of shell profile slightly disagree in one area
plus the usual dimension checks and the like as it looks subjectively a little tall to me. Could just be the effect of the GWRs big loading gauge but I'd like to be sure all the images, drawings and the like tally !
(oh and for anyone looking in terror at the steps its two pieces of metal - the inside one has all the steps on it which just bend out 90° and thread through the holes in the top layer. You don't have to fit the step separately!)
Alan
Looking really good! :claphappy:
It's looking good. Can't wait for it to be ready.
I agree, that does look nice. Can't wait for the final thing.
Todays update
- various things strengthened/thickened a bit
- small correction on the sliding door sizes
- height adjusted as the profile was indeed too tall due to a scaling error
Next 3D print order should go off in a couple of days and with luck the etched stuff tomorrow and also getting the stuff the supplier mirrored resolved.
Alan
Thanks for asll the hard work Alan. :thankyousign:
JohnB
just placed an order for one :thumbsup:
Second tester arrived today and as I already have the etched bits for I've done the basic assembly, just need to do the detail parts to be sure but all looks good.
Not had any answer from Railtec on decal price quotes (beyond a reply that they are busy) but hopefully they'll do them when they get around to it. Won't be as part of the kit however.
I will need to do the actual order very shortly so pre-orders will close very soon. Need to check a couple of things with Shapeways about how they'd prefer the order then order a big box of bits.
Oh and instructions.. my favourite bit :'(
Alan
Just placed an order.
Thanks Alan
Quote from: Karhedron on March 05, 2013, 08:41:06 AM
Quote from: Hailstone on March 05, 2013, 12:33:24 AM
I am also interested, either for use in a milk train or as a departmental vehicle, doesanyone know more about their use in milk trains?
They were used in milk trains from the 1920s until the mid 1950s. They ran with trains of siphons originally but from the late 1920s onwards, an increasing proportion of milk tankers were included in milk trains. I think one was branded for a specific route (Frome IIRC) but some were simply branded for milk trains too and from London. This means they could reasonably be seen on any part of the GWR network.
Am I right in thinking this vehicle is limited to the GWR region. Cheers john.
Hope I'm not to late, just ordered one of each. Cheers john.
Quote from: painbrook on April 18, 2013, 03:37:28 PM
Quote from: Karhedron on March 05, 2013, 08:41:06 AM
Quote from: Hailstone on March 05, 2013, 12:33:24 AM
I am also interested, either for use in a milk train or as a departmental vehicle, doesanyone know more about their use in milk trains?
They were used in milk trains from the 1920s until the mid 1950s. They ran with trains of siphons originally but from the late 1920s onwards, an increasing proportion of milk tankers were included in milk trains. I think one was branded for a specific route (Frome IIRC) but some were simply branded for milk trains too and from London. This means they could reasonably be seen on any part of the GWR network.
Am I right in thinking this vehicle is limited to the GWR region. Cheers john.
Mostly western. However Dm 14060 (the departmental one) was based at Tyseley for a while so I can imagine it wandering onto midland metals easily enough.
AARRGGHH Just found this thread and wanted to order one but I'm too late! The website says "Ordering for this kit is now closed". Will you be doing a rerun at any time?
Cheers
Nick
I must add that I find it absolutely amazing that you camn go from an initial posting looking to gauge interest on March 1st through to orders closed and production underway by the middel of April, incredible! How long does it take Farish or Dapol to produce a new pice of rolling stock??? Very impressed even if I have missed out this time!
Nick
Quote from: Gooner1953 on April 26, 2013, 09:36:27 AM
AARRGGHH Just found this thread and wanted to order one but I'm too late! The website says "Ordering for this kit is now closed". Will you be doing a rerun at any time?
Cheers
Nick
I've over ordered a tiny bit in case of problems and at least one small set of orders is to someone who sells stuff at shows, so panic not. Once they are here, they've been checked and everyone who pre-ordered has theirs there should be a couple of spares if nothing goes wrong.
Alan
Quote from: EtchedPixels on April 26, 2013, 11:14:30 AM
I've over ordered a tiny bit in case of problems and at least one small set of orders is to someone who sells stuff at shows, so panic not. Once they are here, they've been checked and everyone who pre-ordered has theirs there should be a couple of spares if nothing goes wrong.
Alan
Thanks Alan, panic over and I'll continue to watch this space.....
Cheers
Nick
Various people will have requests for the remaining payment in their email. They should have gone out to everyone who paid by Paypal and is based in the UK. If you paid by cheque feel free to send the 8.50 per item + 4.00 P&P at this point, but I'll chase the cheque orders up if not.
International folks I'll invoice once I know the prices to Canada and Australia.
Alan
Thanks Alan, payment for my two just been made.
Gerry
Many thanks. Payment made as well. :thankyousign:
Hi Alan,
I didn't get the email :worried: but have sent the balance 8)
Regards, Gerry.
paid alan cheers :thumbsup:
All the paid for UK kits hit the post office today.
non UK invoices will go out shortly (once I stop messing around on here)
:thankyousign:
Just paid - sorry to be so slow. (Put it down to standing on my head all the time, what with being in the antipodes and all . . .)
- Michael
Well, mine arrived this morning. Thanks Alan. It's a great looking model with really detailed instructions. It is going to be great to build but I have to source a chassis first. Also, it's way beyond anything I have done before so will get out my NGS and other kits out to get some more experience before I risk ruining this.
David
Got mine today Alan - will have a closer look after the weekend
Many thanks
Alex
Mine arrived this morning Alan, thanks. Looking forward to making a start.
Gerry
Got mine this morning, is there someone thinking of doing a tutorial?, I for one (being the forum dummy) :laugh3: would welcome it. Cheers john.
I am itching to get started on mine but our house is currently having an extension and resembles a building site. I think I may have to wait until the works are done before I can get near my modelling desk.
If you can wait until then, I will be happy to post a "how to" guide (or possibly a "how not to" if I make a mess of it ;) ).
Mine arrived safely yesterday as well :thankyousign:
It's going to be the first time I've attempted something like this (That's why I ordered two) so some sort of photo/video tutorial would be brilliant please :photospleasesign:
Mine's arrived safely today. It'll probably stay in the box for a while before I start on it aswell due to not having done any kits with brass before. I've also got a number of other kits to do first aswell...
Hi Alan, are there any of the O.13 milk brakes still available.
I would love to get hold of one if possible.
Cheers
Tim
I don't know if Ntastic has any left otherwise you may have to wait until anther batch gets done - probably next year.
Alan
Not having built an N gauge kit in aeons, I’ve ordered a couple of ‘starter’ kits off Etched Pixels this morning. Alan recommended the Midland 6 wheelers, of which I’ve ordered 1, and the Corringham Railway 4 wheeler as being good ‘starter’ kits.
What I really wanted to know was how everyone (or anyone!) is getting on with the Milk Brake. Anyone built there copy? I would love to see some photos or, even better, a blow by blow account of the build…
Nick
Mine is currently on hold. We have the builders in and I don't really have anywhere to work at the moment. I have had a look and both the bodyshell and the overlays look nice and crisp, should go together well when the time comes.
Sadly the Farish 4-wheel chassis is a bit long. The wheelbase should be right so I need to decide whether I cut down the chassis or do a cut-n-shut of 2 peco wagon chasis to get the righ size. I will probably try the former first as the wheelbase is right and I already have one.
Quote from: Karhedron on June 13, 2013, 11:49:26 AM
Sadly the Farish 4-wheel chassis is a bit long. The wheelbase should be right so I need to decide whether I cut down the chassis or do a cut-n-shut of 2 peco wagon chasis to get the righ size. I will probably try the former first as the wheelbase is right and I already have one.
I think that given your comment about the 4-wheel chassis, I'll wait until you've had a crack at youirs first! Anychance that you can do a blow by blow tutorial? In the meantime I'll content myself with the 2 'starter' kits that Alan has pointed me at and get some more if needs be....
Quote from: Karhedron on June 13, 2013, 11:49:26 AM
Sadly the Farish 4-wheel chassis is a bit long. The wheelbase should be right so I need to decide whether I cut down the chassis or do a cut-n-shut of 2 peco wagon chasis to get the righ size. I will probably try the former first as the wheelbase is right and I already have one.
Remember to allow for the thickness of the overlays and glue in the length. Plus the fact the buffer beam sticks out a tiny bit on the real thing too.
I have one to build at some point (dunno when as its a bit chaotic here) but I'll try and take photos of it as I do it.
Alan
With some hesitation, here's my first completed Milk Brake.
(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u188/Graham1500/2013-09-04135202_zpsd40de86e.jpg) (http://s168.photobucket.com/user/Graham1500/media/2013-09-04135202_zpsd40de86e.jpg.html)
This is my first attempt at working with brass and I'm glad I've got two kits. I've used a Farish underframe and it is at least 2-3mm too long. Next time I'll cut the underframe down.
If I'm feeling brave enough I'll give it an airing on Southbridge at TINGS.
Take it to TINGS and run it, it looks great. Show off you kit building, we are all certain we can no better next time, but that does not mean the first attempt is not good enough to show off.
Enjoy TINGS.
Good for you Graham, as the man says take it to TINGS, you know you want to. Let us all know how you get on. Cheers John.
Thank you for your kind comments. I've added it to the stock box in the hope it runs OK (Can't see why not). Southbridge is all packed up now ready for TINGS so I've only been able to test it on my test track where it seems happy.
Keep your eyes peeled for it.