Riots.

red_death · August 10, 2011, 01:57:41 PM

Despite the ages of those who have past through the courts to date, the vast majority of the people I saw looting in London on Monday night were kids (anywhere between 10 and 20 at a guess).

Believing in human rights does not believe you don't also believe in appropriate punishment.

In London at least, last night seems to have shown that having sufficient numbers of police on the street has been key to preventing looting. Strangely enough a handful of coppers against large groups of youths is not going to stop something. The change in tactics seemed to have worked.

It is all very well frothing at the mouth and saying remove benefits, but surely the consequence of that will be to drive people to more theft? That is nothing to do with wishing to mollycoddle someone, just common sense. If they have committed a crime then they should be prosecuted and punished, let's not make life more complicated than necessary.

poliss · August 10, 2011, 03:27:52 PM

red_death, there's no point in trying to put forward reasoned arguments when you're up against the "hang 'em, flog 'em, shoot 'em brigade". They'd love this country to be like China or Saudi Arabia.

red_death · August 10, 2011, 03:31:20 PM

Quote from: Zunnan on August 10, 2011, 03:17:10 PM
Punished...theres a good laugh. Have you seen the sentences being handed out to the first of the rioters/looters yet? One day in jail...already served becuse they were held on remand for longer than that period. Hit them where it hurts if you ask me, and to hell with their so called human rights. British justice needs to grow a backbone.

Many have not been sentenced yet as they have been referred to the crown court (Magistrates can only hand out max 6 months): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14478063

It is nothing to do with human rights, but basic bloody common sense - if you take away all legal options for someone what do you leave them but more criminality?

EtchedPixels · August 10, 2011, 04:49:38 PM

Well the last people who trashed the country and broke all the rules got a bailout, huge pensions and are back on big bonuses. So maybe the rioters are hoping for the same treatment ...

poliss · August 10, 2011, 05:10:13 PM

I'm not going to argue with your continued ranting. There isn't any point.

red_death · August 10, 2011, 05:13:34 PM

I don't think there is anything liberal about handing out sentences of 6 months or more. I doubt a burglary of similar items would attract the interest of the crown court.

Sentencing guidelines are another topic, but an important part of our justice system has to be the possibility of rehabilitation (otherwise all you do is condemn all criminals regardless of the crime to a life of crime, which becomes utterly self defeating).

Newportnobby · August 10, 2011, 05:59:12 PM

Having just got my home broadband connection back up and running I have read through this thread with a great deal of interest and, sorry to bore everyone, would add my contribution.
I am now in my 57th year and never fail to be amazed at just how far this country (and I refer to England as that is the total of my existence, rather than Wales,Scotland or Ireland) has gone down the toilet. Most of it I blame on the U.S.A. as, due to their communications systems, our kids cannot spell properly. Due to their banal TV shows, our kids emulate US fashion and language to the extent they have lost their English identities and become a sub-culture. I was brought up in a strict environment to have respect and manners for all people and have tried to live my life with those values. I do open doors (building or cars) for ladies. I give up a seat to any infirm/old/pregnant person regardless of their sex (you find me a pregnant man and I'll stand up for him too!). 'Do as you would be done by' has been my mantra. Unfortunately as I've got older, there is very little respect coming back. Some people I open or hold a door for look as if they would rather spit in my face than say thank you. Some women have given me a mouthful when I offer them a seat, or just say nothing. It's difficult to retain respect in such cases but I try. The problem is that I have all the time in the world for the older generation, but now have very little for the younger among us. My nephew sits in his stinking bedroom on his X box whilst making primeval grunts to his similar mates. He can't even hold (or be bothered to hold) a conversation with anyone, including his parents. He hasn't bothered to get any sort of job and has refused to sign on as it's demeaning, although he is happy to sponge off his parents. Before the advent of all these modern communications tools we, as kids, would go out for the day and moan about coming back in. There was hardly any TV worth watching, so sport, train sets, Meccano etc were the hobbies of our time. OK- we indulged in a bit of apple scrumping or cherry knocking but the mere sight of the local copper would send us packing. Where have all these so called 'stars' or celebs' come from, along with all the associated gutter press (they probably wouldn't have dared cremate Lady Gaga as the explosion would have been heard in Oz). Parents seem to want the kids out from under their feet so the kids roam the streets in feral packs scaring the life out of 'normal' humans because they 'haven't got anything to do'. Get a life!! I have never had kids and, to be honest, I'm glad because I'd hate to be a youngster in this day and age. And what, I hear you shouting, has this to do with riots and what would I do about it.
I'd just shoot the b****rds.

OwL · August 10, 2011, 06:00:20 PM

Quote from: poliss on August 10, 2011, 03:27:52 PM
red_death, there's no point in trying to put forward reasoned arguments when you're up against the "hang 'em, flog 'em, shoot 'em brigade". They'd love this country to be like China or Saudi Arabia.

I dont want to live in a country like Saudi and China. Im also not a member from the 'flog-em' lobby either, however you miss the point that if these riots continue the government will impose curfews. This is one step closer to red china and an impact on all our liberty, and the result of people's actions who have no respect for nothing.
What this country is experiencing is a result of limp 'phoney human rights, hug a hoodie' policies' that have erroded our society since the 1960's. I agree 100% with Zunnan, red death and PeteMc. None of us want to live in a police state, I want to live in a country where i can walk in any high street in any english city without worry of any hinderance or fear day or night, clearly the crappy soft liberal drivel that has been spoon fed to our kids has created this evil monster. Time to get tough, punish harshly these punks for killing our communties. When we have control of the streets it's time to turn on and oust through our votes the weak teachers, social leaders and politicians who have crippled this country with their failing laws and policies and return to common sense. decency and rebuild a country where people are safe and proud. If that road involves slapping a hoodie looter, than fine. I can live with that..........

poliss · August 10, 2011, 06:32:20 PM

Lady Gaga isn't dead and you just libelled her. Hug a hoodie is attributed to Cameron's policy. The human rights act doesn't stop people being sent to prison for a very long stretch. If you do want prison sentences to be longer you will of course be happy to pay extra taxes.
You should also stop looking at the past with rose tinted spectacles. It used to be far, far worse in Great Britain not that long ago.
" At the beginning of Victoria's reign key commentators like Edwin Chadwick tended to equate the criminal offender with individuals in the lower reaches of the working class who they considered were reluctant to do an honest day's work for an honest day's wage, and who preferred idleness, drink, 'luxury' and an easy life; in their eyes the problem was a moral one. There were also concerns about 'the dangerous classes' who were thought to lurk in the slums waiting for the opportunity for disorder and plunder."

Not much has changed then?

bluedepot · August 10, 2011, 07:00:08 PM

i'm off to loot hattons....

OwL · August 10, 2011, 07:18:12 PM

Quote from: poliss on August 10, 2011, 06:32:20 PM
Lady Gaga isn't dead and you just libelled her. Hug a hoodie is attributed to Cameron's policy. The human rights act doesn't stop people being sent to prison for a very long stretch. If you do want prison sentences to be longer you will of course be happy to pay extra taxes.
You should also stop looking at the past with rose tinted spectacles. It used to be far, far worse in Great Britain not that long ago.
" At the beginning of Victoria's reign key commentators like Edwin Chadwick tended to equate the criminal offender with individuals in the lower reaches of the working class who they considered were reluctant to do an honest day's work for an honest day's wage, and who preferred idleness, drink, 'luxury' and an easy life; in their eyes the problem was a moral one. There were also concerns about 'the dangerous classes' who were thought to lurk in the slums waiting for the opportunity for disorder and plunder."

Not much has changed then?

I hate to tell you but the rioters think that Victorians are members of Mrs Beckhams fan club. You could try quoting Edwin Chadwick to them, but i doubt they would take much notice. The only thing these scumbags will understand is plastic bullets, tear gas, and police dogs.

Lawrence · August 10, 2011, 07:28:59 PM

Right then chaps we don't want any riots on here, and I think everyone has had a fair crack at this now so I am going to lock the topic off for now and we can all get back to modelling.

I will discuss reopening this thread with Tank when I can get hold of him.

Now, back to your Aug\Sept projects ya bunch of hoolies

longbridge · August 10, 2011, 09:40:42 PM

Why put these morons in jail ?, all they do is associate with other criminals and come out with more criminal ideas.

What would be better IMO would be to save the taxpayers money by taking them out the back of a copper station and beat the stuffing out of them, have an truck handy and dump them on the street outside their homes so all the prospective louts can see what happens when you turn into a moron, brutal but I think effective.